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Someone mentioned going into this thing with the thinking that you won't make any profit for two years. That's the best advice I could give. It's going to take a while to carve out a niche/build a loyal client base.
Also, hope you're planning to work tons, not just in setting up, but behind the counter, since it won't be prudent to be hiring people right away.
Sounds good so far, some suggestions on services you could offer.
You'll be attracting gamers, both table top and video, while a lot of us can get our own stuff online it wouldn't hurt to offer a service where you could order something for them (with an appropriate mark up for transaction fee, you'll have to look up guidelines for that to see what is legal and what isn't). Transaction fees aren't bad, just make sure it's clear that the item will carry the fee.
This will allow gamers without credit, people looking for easy gifts or gamers who don't know what's out there to see what you can find for them.
I'd go along the lines of offering to order print copies of webcomics and webcomic merchandise, stuff you'd find at sites like ThinkGeek, PnP game supplies (books, figurines, a grid table), displays (weapons, figurines, etc) and TV season packs (because some of us definitely like our episodes in big shiny season packs). See if you can get a retail deal with a place like amazon or think geek.
It's 2010. I'm pretty sure there's not a soul outside of 6 year olds and octogenarians who can't figure out how to order something online.
The only people you'd be catering to are those who don't have bank accounts, and that's not one even worth pursuing.
There are two avenues you could take with this though.
Low/no cost: Besides the price of a sign saying you'll take orders for online items this won't cost you anything until someone requests an order...and even then you'll be making profit off that. Regardless if you only get one order a year it wouldn't hurt to have it. You can even offer to look for rare items people want because hey, some people are too busy/lazy/unknowledgeable to find it.
Maintain cost: You...put together some sort of catelog, it would have to be maintained at a minimum...yearly, and list a lot of items people wouldn't guess were available. I really don't have confidence in this approach unless you know there's a market for it.
Also, some of our local game stores buy the more popular slogan T-shirts (nerd slogans) and sell them. You'll have to find a distributor but having the product available is a huge plus if there's a market for it.
Sipex on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Sounds good so far, some suggestions on services you could offer.
You'll be attracting gamers, both table top and video, while a lot of us can get our own stuff online it wouldn't hurt to offer a service where you could order something for them (with an appropriate mark up for transaction fee, you'll have to look up guidelines for that to see what is legal and what isn't). Transaction fees aren't bad, just make sure it's clear that the item will carry the fee.
This will allow gamers without credit, people looking for easy gifts or gamers who don't know what's out there to see what you can find for them.
I'd go along the lines of offering to order print copies of webcomics and webcomic merchandise, stuff you'd find at sites like ThinkGeek, PnP game supplies (books, figurines, a grid table), displays (weapons, figurines, etc) and TV season packs (because some of us definitely like our episodes in big shiny season packs). See if you can get a retail deal with a place like amazon or think geek.
It's 2010. I'm pretty sure there's not a soul outside of 6 year olds and octogenarians who can't figure out how to order something online.
The only people you'd be catering to are those who don't have bank accounts, and that's not one even worth pursuing.
There are two avenues you could take with this though.
Low/no cost: Besides the price of a sign saying you'll take orders for online items this won't cost you anything until someone requests an order...and even then you'll be making profit off that. Regardless if you only get one order a year it wouldn't hurt to have it. You can even offer to look for rare items people want because hey, some people are too busy/lazy/unknowledgeable to find it.
Maintain cost: You...put together some sort of catelog, it would have to be maintained at a minimum...yearly, and list a lot of items people wouldn't guess were available. I really don't have confidence in this approach unless you know there's a market for it.
Also, some of our local game stores buy the more popular slogan T-shirts (nerd slogans) and sell them. You'll have to find a distributor but having the product available is a huge plus if there's a market for it.
What happens when your person who can't even handle having a bank account decides they're not going to pick up and pay for said item? Seriously. Waste. Of. Time. There's a reason you don't see anyone doing this.
A catalog? Of what? Once again, huge waste of time and energy for a dollar or two in profit. Exactly how much are you suggesting they jack up the price of said ordered item?
I'd be horrified to open a game store because of what Steam represents.
I mean in the short run its not a worry really, but if you are opening a business you are in it for the long haul. You know the next generation of consoles may have something like Steam for full price titles, and if it does game retail is going to take a big ol' kick in the nuts.
I'm at work and the firewall is preventing me from confirming, but I'm pretty sure this website www.pinkgorillagames.com is the url for a local small business gaming store near me, learn everything you can from them, for they are amazing.
Captain Vash on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
I'd be horrified to open a game store because of what Steam represents.
I mean in the short run its not a worry really, but if you are opening a business you are in it for the long haul. You know the next generation of consoles may have something like Steam for full price titles, and if it does game retail is going to take a big ol' kick in the nuts.
Can't you already download full titles through Live and PSN?
I'd be horrified to open a game store because of what Steam represents.
I mean in the short run its not a worry really, but if you are opening a business you are in it for the long haul. You know the next generation of consoles may have something like Steam for full price titles, and if it does game retail is going to take a big ol' kick in the nuts.
Can't you already download full titles through Live and PSN?
Yes but it's something you can do for some games.
They could stick terabyte hard drives on the next generation of consoles and make digital distribution the norm for all games.
What happens when your person who can't even handle having a bank account decides they're not going to pick up and pay for said item? Seriously. Waste. Of. Time. There's a reason you don't see anyone doing this.
A catalog? Of what? Once again, huge waste of time and energy for a dollar or two in profit. Exactly how much are you suggesting they jack up the price of said ordered item?
1) It's easy, put policies in place. Not sure what restrictions there are on store policies but I'm pretty sure if they give you the money willingly then you can do just about anything as long as you keep to your word and make the policy known.
One option is have them pay up front with no refunds (Hold the item for a set amount of time and then throw it out/donate it if they fail to show). This avoids larger items not getting paid for and sitting on the shelf for years because you can't sell it.
2) Like I said, I don't have much confidence in this one. He'd need to identify a large enough market for this service to make it feasable. Probably not worth suggesting in the first place.
Also Esh, I've noticed you take a big "If I don't agree with it then it's a bad idea." stance in the help threads you post in. This has already been pointed out at least once by another poster.
Your advice is good but people will stop listening if you keep being a prick about it.
Sipex on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
What happens when your person who can't even handle having a bank account decides they're not going to pick up and pay for said item? Seriously. Waste. Of. Time. There's a reason you don't see anyone doing this.
A catalog? Of what? Once again, huge waste of time and energy for a dollar or two in profit. Exactly how much are you suggesting they jack up the price of said ordered item?
1) It's easy, put policies in place. Not sure what restrictions there are on store policies but I'm pretty sure if they give you the money willingly then you can do just about anything as long as you keep to your word and make the policy known.
One option is have them pay up front with no refunds (Hold the item for a set amount of time and then throw it out/donate it if they fail to show). This avoids larger items not getting paid for and sitting on the shelf for years because you can't sell it.
2) Like I said, I don't have much confidence in this one. He'd need to identify a large enough market for this service to make it feasable. Probably not worth suggesting in the first place.
Also Esh, I've noticed you take a big "If I don't agree with it then it's a bad idea." stance in the help threads you post in. This has already been pointed out at least once by another poster.
Your advice is good but people will stop listening if you keep being a prick about it.
I worked in used/new record stores for 8 years. I've dealt with this exact situation albeit with music. I'm pretty sure of what I'm talking about.
Are you getting a kick out of these replies as well?
I'm just saying that they're very similar business models, but with used records, you have a much broader appeal. OP is trying to appeal to a very niche market, thus making his life that much tougher. Retail fails almost as hard as new restaurants do nowadays. No sense in pulling punches. Would you rather have someone be frank or would you rather be 10's of thousands of dollars in debt?
Esh on
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Here's a couple examples of successful game stores/venues here in Portland...
Are you getting a kick out of these replies as well?
I'm just saying that they're very similar business models, but with used records, you have a much broader appeal. OP is trying to appeal to a very niche market, thus making his life that much tougher. Retail fails almost as hard as new restaurants do nowadays. No sense in pulling punches. Would you rather have someone be frank or would you rather be 10's of thousands of dollars in debt?
:P I am just busting your chops. Your advice is usually pretty spot on, despite your tone.
I think he could do a service catalog thing but he would have to setup some clearly defined rules. To be honest what he could do is setup some what of an aggragate website advertising content on such nerdy sites. A friend of mine does this stuff on the side except he does it for like ebay stores selling cooking gear.
He advertises the stuff and the people using his site order it, he gets a cut of the sale (kind of a finders fee) and he isnt at risk for any merchandise.
Either that or he sets it up where he just does the leg work and has the items drop shipped to the customer. Paid up front and work out a specific set of rules for returns or people who are "not satisfied"
make sure that you get a copy of all the shipping waybills so people dont pull a "I didnt get it I want my money back"
People are lazy, personally I know there is tons of cool stuff on sites like thinkgeek, ebay etc but dont really know what to look for. Have that stuff in a catalogue, or online in addtional to regular physical shop sales. If it doesnt work or turns out to be too much effort he isnt out anything except time and a few bucks for a website (which he will likely have a website anyways for the store)
Question for the OP (or anyone if he's already mentioned it).
Do you have a name thought up yet?
Thing is, you really want to make sure people can tell what your store does just by looking at the name. For instance, one place I frequent now which specialises in PnP rpgs, I had no idea was a game store for years. It was called L.A. Mood. Maybe that means something I don't know but I thought it was a lingerie store or something until I finally saw it.
wow, haha, you guys are awesome for replying. We have no name idea yet, but its in the mix right now... Name is everything for people to be able to know who you are, what you are, and why they should go there. A stores name is almost, if not more effective than a brand name, since we don't buy stuff at a samsung store, or an EA store, we go to Best Buy.
We know that most starting companies dont make money for the longest time (2+ years). Which is why we're building a 5 year plan to start, and planning on doing 12-15 hrs a day for the store ourselves. We are both highly motivated and willing to put in extra work in every way.
Esh has some good points, and from what I'm reading hes probably trying to prevent the whole 'head in the clouds' deal. Which is good, because realism is needed in business. I don't plan to make a million dollars on my first day, hell, in a few years i wouldn't expect it.
All these idea's have been giving me a lot of food for thought. We're really looking into carrying warhammer, and the tournaments we're definately looking at doing. I like the weekly tournament of a different style idea. Warhammer one week, DnD the next, etc. It sounds like the kind of store I'd love to go to.
This leads to image. I was thinking making the design of the store (with in reason) open. I would like to have lots of windows if we're Stand Alone, but if we're in a Mall that might not be possible. I just don't want to look like a lot of downtown pawn shops with the greasy people hanging around, but rather somewhere professional and almost home-like. After reading all this, a place for people to hang out and enjoy rather than just a place to go and get your game and go home really looks to be a possible ticket.
Sooo many suggestions and a ton of advice, makes my day!
This.
There are a lot of hobby overlaps amongst the nerd herd.
I agree 100%.
Most comic book stores I've been to (and I go to a few) also sell tabletop RPG stuff and action figures because those three groups tend to overlap heavily.
For a video game store, I would tend to think that a major overlapping group is people who like movies, and also perhaps video-game-related action figures.
Another thing to consider is that lately there have been a shitload of comics based on well-liked video games and sci-fi - the ones that come to mind immediately are the Mirror's Edge comic series and the Ender's Game comic series. You might consider keeping an eye on comics like that and keeping a small number of them in stock.
Edit: On further consideration, I also recall seeing a manga of Zelda, a comic series of Metal Gear Solid, and I believe a comic series for Gears of War. There is also at least one Halo comic, in addition to the novels.
I like the weekly tournament of a different style idea. Warhammer one week, DnD the next, etc. It sounds like the kind of store I'd love to go to.
That isn't exactly what I meant. I'm suggesting:
LAN party every wednesday evening
whatever the locals are into every Thursday evening(yu-gi-oh, pokemon, who knows who cares)
a magic tournament every Friday night (FNM)
D&D every Saturday (day)
Warhammer every sunday (day)
People form routines, if they have to check if your hosting what they are into this week or its not till next week they won't bother to show, make it the same day same time every week.
One thing I can say about a small business game store, is that they would really have the oppurtunity to actually "sell" games to people.
I mean most franchises people just head on off with their purchase already in mind, like oh Call of Duty came out last week, I should head on down to the nearest Gamestop and buy it. The employees don't have the time, incentive, or want, to really make a connection with someone for the most part.
But what the average person is missing is exposure to great titles that wouldn't normally fall in the customer's radar.
Essentially as a game store, to attract loyal customers you would have to offer some of the service of say the Penny Arcade forum. Expertise, trust, and a finger on the pulse of what is going on for games.
For example, stuff like Atlus games which aren't well stocked usually, if an owner took a flier and acquired 10 copies of Disgaea a few years ago. A lot of people probably wouldn't have known what it was, but if the owner had a good relation with his customers he could mention it to some RPG fans, or even give them a spin on a demo version.
If they like it, well you pretty much just made a customer for life. If they don't you are probably going to be on the line for a return, something not really desired since then you've just lost probably the whole price of purchase since you are selling it used now. Once you've become to place to shop, that's when people start coming to you specifically to buy the "Call of Duty" blockbuster titles, because they want you, not some giant careless giant, to have the business.
That's the foundation of any good small business.
You just have to make sure you have a nice fan-base of customers, and not those guys who fill up your store and eat doritos because their mom booted them out of the house for the day. (Age 35)
Here's the thing, while all these ideas are great and all, they have all been done to death concerning video game stores. Cabinets, TV's, Xbox's etc, its all the same between the mom and pop stores, just different ways to go about it.
I feel in my opinion, to truly stand out, you need to do something very unique that GameStop either doesn't do or doesn't do that often as well as the other locals.
Say for example, host a LARGE annual tournament for whatever game you choose (Warhammer, Magic, Halo etc). Every store usually has some form of tournaments, but does every store host say a large cash prize first prize tournament (say $5000)? Not that I have seen. Advertise on the internet and not just locally. Get that posted to every forum you can find that you are hosting this large tournament.
Be creative and not the thousands that start up and fail overtime. You have to have something unique that will bring in people and nothing says that better then cash tournaments that have been well advertise that bring people around locally and possible a state or two away to just your shop to play.
Obviously, this is an example but you catch my drift.
Here's the thing, while all these ideas are great and all, they have all been done to death concerning video game stores. Cabinets, TV's, Xbox's etc, its all the same between the mom and pop stores, just different ways to go about it.
I've never seen a store that sells both current video games and comic books. Maybe I've just never been to the right ones, but yeah, I think that would be a neat combination - especially if the store sold more than just VG-related comics, but branched out into more general Marvel and DC series. I dunno. I'd be inclined to go to that store.
Just to chime in on adding PnP and DnD and stuff to the store - I wouldn't advise it. No offence to anyone on this board, but those tend to be more extreme on the 'nerd' scale than video-games and could very well establish your store as a place where most people won't feel comfortable shopping.
I would say the gaming room could work - but instead of 105" tv I'd set up a projector attached to the ceiling so your customers can't mess with it, and because it would be cheaper. Keep most of the setup in a locked cabinet with just the consoles within the customers reach so they can change games and whatnot.
Just to chime in on adding PnP and DnD and stuff to the store - I wouldn't advise it. No offence to anyone on this board, but those tend to be more extreme on the 'nerd' scale than video-games and could very well establish your store as a place where most people won't feel comfortable shopping.
I came into say this. Depending on how you set it up, it could create a whole different enviroment that won't be as friendly to some consumers. You think a mom is going to want to enter a store that also has guys play DnD everywhere. If you do want to go this route, try to keep the two as seperate as possible. Have a seperate game room for sure. One guy rages while playing DnD and you're going to lose a customer.
Second, some people are coming back to the video game room idea, I am still convinced this is a bad idea. More square footage costs money. You have to pay for the TV/Systems/Games/Chairs. People aren't going to pay more than a few dollars an hour to play. You wouldn't see profit on it for years. I knew a guy who worked at a place with a gaming center... No one ever used it.
Also someone mentioned refusing to take trade if you have too many copies of the game. Don't do this. GameStop doesn't do this. Why would a customer come to your store to trade in games if you might take them all?
Here's the thing, while all these ideas are great and all, they have all been done to death concerning video game stores. Cabinets, TV's, Xbox's etc, its all the same between the mom and pop stores, just different ways to go about it.
I've never seen a store that sells both current video games and comic books. Maybe I've just never been to the right ones, but yeah, I think that would be a neat combination - especially if the store sold more than just VG-related comics, but branched out into more general Marvel and DC series. I dunno. I'd be inclined to go to that store.
Man, if there's anything more niche and with a less profit margin than videogames it's comics.
The only way to really make any money selling comics is by selling older, rarer comics.
Just to chime in on adding PnP and DnD and stuff to the store - I wouldn't advise it. No offence to anyone on this board, but those tend to be more extreme on the 'nerd' scale than video-games and could very well establish your store as a place where most people won't feel comfortable shopping.
I came into say this. Depending on how you set it up, it could create a whole different enviroment that won't be as friendly to some consumers. You think a mom is going to want to enter a store that also has guys play DnD everywhere. If you do want to go this route, try to keep the two as seperate as possible. Have a seperate game room for sure. One guy rages while playing DnD and you're going to lose a customer.
Second, some people are coming back to the video game room idea, I am still convinced this is a bad idea. More square footage costs money. You have to pay for the TV/Systems/Games/Chairs. People aren't going to pay more than a few dollars an hour to play. You wouldn't see profit on it for years. I knew a guy who worked at a place with a gaming center... No one ever used it.
Also someone mentioned refusing to take trade if you have too many copies of the game. Don't do this. GameStop doesn't do this. Why would a customer come to your store to trade in games if you might take them all?
I was thinking on this again. What'd you'd have to do is make it eb style for stuff like an EA sports title. Give them a giftcard for the value (which would be low) so you keep the money local. You'd need to make it so trade in - cost of new version still gets you a profit though. Then you can grind up and make confetti out of the old games you have sitting around when the stock gets too high.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
Does your community have any hobby/comic/game shops with tournaments like this?
This.
Most of these have disappeared around me due to things like tax evasion, and my husband especially misses them terribly because he used to run roleplaying games there, and participate in M:TG tournaments and so forth. They're nice because no one wants 10 people sitting in their living room when their living room is in a one-bedroom apartment, and any rulebook you need is right there for purchase. People browse during breaks and stuff and ended up buying everything from rulebooks to miniatures they could use spur of the moment for the game.
Unlike video game stores, there are not two or three really big franchises you can find *everywhere*, and a lot of time the local ones are the best.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I've noticed that many mom and pop used game stores also have a presence at the local flea market. That might be something you might want to consider as well.
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
I can only speak anecdotally here because I don't know exact numbers, but neither I nor any of my friends or family have bought a PC game from a "brick and mortar" in at least a year. It's always digital delivery - either Steam, D2D, or otherwise. This includes gifts.
I dunno. I think digital delivery will eventually take over, but not in the next few years.
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
banking on previous cultural norms is a historically poor decision in the media business
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
banking on previous cultural norms is a historically poor decision in the media business
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
banking on previous cultural norms is a historically poor decision in the media business
Exhibit 1: iTunes to music
Actually, analogies to music stores from a decade ago to current gaming stores holds some pretty good weight here. Margins were razor thin there too, and everyone has seen what digital distribution has done to that whole brick and mortar mainstay.
A Bear on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
the other thing you have to take into account: Were is the market going to be in 5 or 10 years?
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
banking on previous cultural norms is a historically poor decision in the media business
Exhibit 1: iTunes to music
Actually, analogies to music stores from a decade ago to current gaming stores holds some pretty good weight here. Margins were razor thin there too, and everyone has seen what digital distribution has done to that whole brick and mortar mainstay.
The models are essentially the same.
The independent record stores around here survive on one of two things...
I'd be interested to know whether the OP knows the delta between what places like EB, Wallmart pay from the vendor compared to what he'll get.
I dont know about games specifically and I suspect that the top-to-bottom margins are pretty tightly controlled - but I used to work for a reseller, and big chains (like Amazon for example) are able to sell for a profit cheaper than other companies can even buy wholesale.
The independent record stores around here survive on one of two things...
1. A massive used selection
2. Selection of vinyl
Though this is Portland, so YMMV.
When I saw Schoolkids Records close in Chapel Hill, of all places, I knew that the times were a changin'
Video game stores will probably soon have a very similar threat in digital distribution that music stores have been strangled with this past decade.
Now, if somehow you could capitalize on this, you might have a good idea on your hands. But selling video games in brick and mortar stores is a rapidly diminishing market.
Posts
Also, hope you're planning to work tons, not just in setting up, but behind the counter, since it won't be prudent to be hiring people right away.
There are two avenues you could take with this though.
Low/no cost: Besides the price of a sign saying you'll take orders for online items this won't cost you anything until someone requests an order...and even then you'll be making profit off that. Regardless if you only get one order a year it wouldn't hurt to have it. You can even offer to look for rare items people want because hey, some people are too busy/lazy/unknowledgeable to find it.
Maintain cost: You...put together some sort of catelog, it would have to be maintained at a minimum...yearly, and list a lot of items people wouldn't guess were available. I really don't have confidence in this approach unless you know there's a market for it.
Also, some of our local game stores buy the more popular slogan T-shirts (nerd slogans) and sell them. You'll have to find a distributor but having the product available is a huge plus if there's a market for it.
What happens when your person who can't even handle having a bank account decides they're not going to pick up and pay for said item? Seriously. Waste. Of. Time. There's a reason you don't see anyone doing this.
A catalog? Of what? Once again, huge waste of time and energy for a dollar or two in profit. Exactly how much are you suggesting they jack up the price of said ordered item?
I mean in the short run its not a worry really, but if you are opening a business you are in it for the long haul. You know the next generation of consoles may have something like Steam for full price titles, and if it does game retail is going to take a big ol' kick in the nuts.
Can't you already download full titles through Live and PSN?
Yes but it's something you can do for some games.
They could stick terabyte hard drives on the next generation of consoles and make digital distribution the norm for all games.
1) It's easy, put policies in place. Not sure what restrictions there are on store policies but I'm pretty sure if they give you the money willingly then you can do just about anything as long as you keep to your word and make the policy known.
One option is have them pay up front with no refunds (Hold the item for a set amount of time and then throw it out/donate it if they fail to show). This avoids larger items not getting paid for and sitting on the shelf for years because you can't sell it.
2) Like I said, I don't have much confidence in this one. He'd need to identify a large enough market for this service to make it feasable. Probably not worth suggesting in the first place.
Also Esh, I've noticed you take a big "If I don't agree with it then it's a bad idea." stance in the help threads you post in. This has already been pointed out at least once by another poster.
Your advice is good but people will stop listening if you keep being a prick about it.
I worked in used/new record stores for 8 years. I've dealt with this exact situation albeit with music. I'm pretty sure of what I'm talking about.
My point is, the first suggestion, with the right policies, won't cost the OP anything unless it actually works so there's no harm in trying.
I'm just saying that they're very similar business models, but with used records, you have a much broader appeal. OP is trying to appeal to a very niche market, thus making his life that much tougher. Retail fails almost as hard as new restaurants do nowadays. No sense in pulling punches. Would you rather have someone be frank or would you rather be 10's of thousands of dollars in debt?
Ground Kontrol
Guardian Games
Guardian is more focused on RPG/Wargaming, but they do have a lot of used games, cabinets, and have several consoles hooked up to a projector.
Your best bet is to diversify.
:P I am just busting your chops. Your advice is usually pretty spot on, despite your tone.
I think he could do a service catalog thing but he would have to setup some clearly defined rules. To be honest what he could do is setup some what of an aggragate website advertising content on such nerdy sites. A friend of mine does this stuff on the side except he does it for like ebay stores selling cooking gear.
He advertises the stuff and the people using his site order it, he gets a cut of the sale (kind of a finders fee) and he isnt at risk for any merchandise.
Either that or he sets it up where he just does the leg work and has the items drop shipped to the customer. Paid up front and work out a specific set of rules for returns or people who are "not satisfied"
make sure that you get a copy of all the shipping waybills so people dont pull a "I didnt get it I want my money back"
People are lazy, personally I know there is tons of cool stuff on sites like thinkgeek, ebay etc but dont really know what to look for. Have that stuff in a catalogue, or online in addtional to regular physical shop sales. If it doesnt work or turns out to be too much effort he isnt out anything except time and a few bucks for a website (which he will likely have a website anyways for the store)
Do you have a name thought up yet?
Thing is, you really want to make sure people can tell what your store does just by looking at the name. For instance, one place I frequent now which specialises in PnP rpgs, I had no idea was a game store for years. It was called L.A. Mood. Maybe that means something I don't know but I thought it was a lingerie store or something until I finally saw it.
We know that most starting companies dont make money for the longest time (2+ years). Which is why we're building a 5 year plan to start, and planning on doing 12-15 hrs a day for the store ourselves. We are both highly motivated and willing to put in extra work in every way.
Esh has some good points, and from what I'm reading hes probably trying to prevent the whole 'head in the clouds' deal. Which is good, because realism is needed in business. I don't plan to make a million dollars on my first day, hell, in a few years i wouldn't expect it.
All these idea's have been giving me a lot of food for thought. We're really looking into carrying warhammer, and the tournaments we're definately looking at doing. I like the weekly tournament of a different style idea. Warhammer one week, DnD the next, etc. It sounds like the kind of store I'd love to go to.
This leads to image. I was thinking making the design of the store (with in reason) open. I would like to have lots of windows if we're Stand Alone, but if we're in a Mall that might not be possible. I just don't want to look like a lot of downtown pawn shops with the greasy people hanging around, but rather somewhere professional and almost home-like. After reading all this, a place for people to hang out and enjoy rather than just a place to go and get your game and go home really looks to be a possible ticket.
Sooo many suggestions and a ton of advice, makes my day!
This.
There are a lot of hobby overlaps amongst the nerd herd.
The proper attitude is, "I don't plan to make 10 dollars on my first day, hell, in a few years i wouldn't expect it."
I agree 100%.
Most comic book stores I've been to (and I go to a few) also sell tabletop RPG stuff and action figures because those three groups tend to overlap heavily.
For a video game store, I would tend to think that a major overlapping group is people who like movies, and also perhaps video-game-related action figures.
Another thing to consider is that lately there have been a shitload of comics based on well-liked video games and sci-fi - the ones that come to mind immediately are the Mirror's Edge comic series and the Ender's Game comic series. You might consider keeping an eye on comics like that and keeping a small number of them in stock.
Edit: On further consideration, I also recall seeing a manga of Zelda, a comic series of Metal Gear Solid, and I believe a comic series for Gears of War. There is also at least one Halo comic, in addition to the novels.
That isn't exactly what I meant. I'm suggesting:
LAN party every wednesday evening
whatever the locals are into every Thursday evening(yu-gi-oh, pokemon, who knows who cares)
a magic tournament every Friday night (FNM)
D&D every Saturday (day)
Warhammer every sunday (day)
People form routines, if they have to check if your hosting what they are into this week or its not till next week they won't bother to show, make it the same day same time every week.
I mean most franchises people just head on off with their purchase already in mind, like oh Call of Duty came out last week, I should head on down to the nearest Gamestop and buy it. The employees don't have the time, incentive, or want, to really make a connection with someone for the most part.
But what the average person is missing is exposure to great titles that wouldn't normally fall in the customer's radar.
Essentially as a game store, to attract loyal customers you would have to offer some of the service of say the Penny Arcade forum. Expertise, trust, and a finger on the pulse of what is going on for games.
For example, stuff like Atlus games which aren't well stocked usually, if an owner took a flier and acquired 10 copies of Disgaea a few years ago. A lot of people probably wouldn't have known what it was, but if the owner had a good relation with his customers he could mention it to some RPG fans, or even give them a spin on a demo version.
If they like it, well you pretty much just made a customer for life. If they don't you are probably going to be on the line for a return, something not really desired since then you've just lost probably the whole price of purchase since you are selling it used now. Once you've become to place to shop, that's when people start coming to you specifically to buy the "Call of Duty" blockbuster titles, because they want you, not some giant careless giant, to have the business.
That's the foundation of any good small business.
You just have to make sure you have a nice fan-base of customers, and not those guys who fill up your store and eat doritos because their mom booted them out of the house for the day. (Age 35)
I feel in my opinion, to truly stand out, you need to do something very unique that GameStop either doesn't do or doesn't do that often as well as the other locals.
Say for example, host a LARGE annual tournament for whatever game you choose (Warhammer, Magic, Halo etc). Every store usually has some form of tournaments, but does every store host say a large cash prize first prize tournament (say $5000)? Not that I have seen. Advertise on the internet and not just locally. Get that posted to every forum you can find that you are hosting this large tournament.
Be creative and not the thousands that start up and fail overtime. You have to have something unique that will bring in people and nothing says that better then cash tournaments that have been well advertise that bring people around locally and possible a state or two away to just your shop to play.
Obviously, this is an example but you catch my drift.
I've never seen a store that sells both current video games and comic books. Maybe I've just never been to the right ones, but yeah, I think that would be a neat combination - especially if the store sold more than just VG-related comics, but branched out into more general Marvel and DC series. I dunno. I'd be inclined to go to that store.
I would say the gaming room could work - but instead of 105" tv I'd set up a projector attached to the ceiling so your customers can't mess with it, and because it would be cheaper. Keep most of the setup in a locked cabinet with just the consoles within the customers reach so they can change games and whatnot.
I came into say this. Depending on how you set it up, it could create a whole different enviroment that won't be as friendly to some consumers. You think a mom is going to want to enter a store that also has guys play DnD everywhere. If you do want to go this route, try to keep the two as seperate as possible. Have a seperate game room for sure. One guy rages while playing DnD and you're going to lose a customer.
Second, some people are coming back to the video game room idea, I am still convinced this is a bad idea. More square footage costs money. You have to pay for the TV/Systems/Games/Chairs. People aren't going to pay more than a few dollars an hour to play. You wouldn't see profit on it for years. I knew a guy who worked at a place with a gaming center... No one ever used it.
Also someone mentioned refusing to take trade if you have too many copies of the game. Don't do this. GameStop doesn't do this. Why would a customer come to your store to trade in games if you might take them all?
Man, if there's anything more niche and with a less profit margin than videogames it's comics.
The only way to really make any money selling comics is by selling older, rarer comics.
I was thinking on this again. What'd you'd have to do is make it eb style for stuff like an EA sports title. Give them a giftcard for the value (which would be low) so you keep the money local. You'd need to make it so trade in - cost of new version still gets you a profit though. Then you can grind up and make confetti out of the old games you have sitting around when the stock gets too high.
Most of these have disappeared around me due to things like tax evasion, and my husband especially misses them terribly because he used to run roleplaying games there, and participate in M:TG tournaments and so forth. They're nice because no one wants 10 people sitting in their living room when their living room is in a one-bedroom apartment, and any rulebook you need is right there for purchase. People browse during breaks and stuff and ended up buying everything from rulebooks to miniatures they could use spur of the moment for the game.
Unlike video game stores, there are not two or three really big franchises you can find *everywhere*, and a lot of time the local ones are the best.
My guess? Steam. Well, steam and other digital download models. Why drive out in the cold to your store and pay $60 for a game (plus tax) when I can get it on steam for $45 and a click of the mouse? Or even for $35 during a sale?
Steam is getting big. Others will follow. Your not only competing with EB, Best Buy, etc; you are also competing with the "new" business model of online sales.
I remain thoroughly unconviced that digital delivery for games will ever be large enough to threaten the brick and mortar business regardless of what Tycho says. People want physical items when they spend money. Giving people digital gifts is lame. Steam isn't especially cheaper than brick and mortar(if at all) except for some sales. Just my opinion.
I can only speak anecdotally here because I don't know exact numbers, but neither I nor any of my friends or family have bought a PC game from a "brick and mortar" in at least a year. It's always digital delivery - either Steam, D2D, or otherwise. This includes gifts.
I dunno. I think digital delivery will eventually take over, but not in the next few years.
banking on previous cultural norms is a historically poor decision in the media business
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Exhibit 1: iTunes to music
Actually, analogies to music stores from a decade ago to current gaming stores holds some pretty good weight here. Margins were razor thin there too, and everyone has seen what digital distribution has done to that whole brick and mortar mainstay.
The models are essentially the same.
The independent record stores around here survive on one of two things...
1. A massive used selection
2. Selection of vinyl
Though this is Portland, so YMMV.
I dont know about games specifically and I suspect that the top-to-bottom margins are pretty tightly controlled - but I used to work for a reseller, and big chains (like Amazon for example) are able to sell for a profit cheaper than other companies can even buy wholesale.
When I saw Schoolkids Records close in Chapel Hill, of all places, I knew that the times were a changin'
Video game stores will probably soon have a very similar threat in digital distribution that music stores have been strangled with this past decade.
Now, if somehow you could capitalize on this, you might have a good idea on your hands. But selling video games in brick and mortar stores is a rapidly diminishing market.