X-Men Thread: Regenesis is here, Phil Collins or Peter Gabriel?

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  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    TexiKen wrote: »
    But you see, that's the beauty of doing it with comics. And there wouldn't even be political meanings behind it (given a non ham fisted writer); the X-Men are tired of living on a sinking asteroid. They decide to all go to one messed up country (they just have to pick one). They clean it up, because they can, even pointing out that regular humans could have done this to help their fellow man years ago but chose not to. Of course initial backlash would happen, because they're getting upstaged, but the X-Men win over the innocent people in this nation, and start to rebuild and show the world peaceful coexistence it can be done.

    You do that kind of story, and don't change it 10 months later, it will work. And I have no problem with the killing, kill terrorists all day long.

    Much like Authoritative Action during Waid's FF run, or the Standoff crossover that started in Jurgens Thor run (so good), let some heroes have a fucking chance to fix stuff without using a pussy cop-out like SHIELD.

    Except it will end up the same way Genosha did eventually because no matter how far they move forward mutants have to be pushed back to being feared and hated and on the run eventually in the Marvel Universe.

    kdrudy on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    But thats the thing. You could have mutants do that and point out that humans could have already done this and everything, and they could be entirely right, but humans would still hate them, because nobody likes to be shown that they are incompetent. Human beings are not rational, and if mutants are shown to be awesome cool guys who just want to help people out they would probably find that humans hate them because they think they're being replaced.

    In fact, that's what I'd like to see the real basis of anti-mutant feelings being. Not hating them because they're different or dangerous or even an abomination but because they are here to replace us. Because they are superior over normal humans due to them having the same base intellectual and physical capabilities but all having amazing superpowers.

    Sure, let superheroes fix stuff and have an actual impact. I'm all for that, and the X-Men could be great. Honestly I think the de-powering was a bit of a cop-out because having a huge nation of millions of mutants on an island somewhere was actually pretty cool rather than whipping it back to the status quo.

    And I suppose the X-Men could take over a country somewhere and clean it up and it would come out well for them, but you'd need a hell of a writer if it was intended to feel vaguely realistic and acceptable, at least for me. And if you'd accept it more easily that's fine and cool, I'm just saying if they did that story the outcome might be completely acceptable for you but it probably wouldn't for me.

    Solar on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    kdrudy wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    But you see, that's the beauty of doing it with comics. And there wouldn't even be political meanings behind it (given a non ham fisted writer); the X-Men are tired of living on a sinking asteroid. They decide to all go to one messed up country (they just have to pick one). They clean it up, because they can, even pointing out that regular humans could have done this to help their fellow man years ago but chose not to. Of course initial backlash would happen, because they're getting upstaged, but the X-Men win over the innocent people in this nation, and start to rebuild and show the world peaceful coexistence it can be done.

    You do that kind of story, and don't change it 10 months later, it will work. And I have no problem with the killing, kill terrorists all day long.

    Much like Authoritative Action during Waid's FF run, or the Standoff crossover that started in Jurgens Thor run (so good), let some heroes have a fucking chance to fix stuff without using a pussy cop-out like SHIELD.

    Except it will end up the same way Genosha did eventually because no matter how far they move forward mutants have to be pushed back to being feared and hated and on the run eventually in the Marvel Universe.

    Only under the totalitarian regimes of the last EiCs, not under a bold new direction.

    And I could even have an out to this whole scenario; after being in this country for a while, the US admits "hey, we were hella wrong about you guys for so long, let's make up for it", and through some deal with whatever the next peacekeeping acronym force is, they are back in New York or the northeast in exchange for having some mutants be a strikeforce (which fills the X-Force void). And in fact, states would fight over wanting the X-Men to reside in their states because they see the good they do.

    I know in comics change is never allowed, especially these days, but this would be my way to fix mutant problems. Either that or just kill them all.

    TexiKen on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I agree on the mutants in Marvel being a problem that still needs to be solved. They either need to let things change in the 616 universe or they need to take steps to make it look like the lack of change isn't wierd which aren't cop-outs. I can see why the depowered the mutants in House of M, and honestly if Joey Q had rung me up and said "hey, I know we've never met before, but depowering of mutants or not?" I'd probably have gone with the depowering given that Marvel over-all do want to keep thigns vaguely like the real world.

    Another problem is that the X-verse seems to be very much apart from everyone else, which sucks mighty balls, because it keeps interaction to a real low and cool characters never get to cross the divide unless their wolverine or deadpool and seriously those two can fuck right off.

    Solar on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Solar wrote: »
    But thats the thing. You could have mutants do that and point out that humans could have already done this and everything, and they could be entirely right, but humans would still hate them, because nobody likes to be shown that they are incompetent. Human beings are not rational, and if mutants are shown to be awesome cool guys who just want to help people out they would probably find that humans hate them because they think they're being replaced.

    In fact, that's what I'd like to see the real basis of anti-mutant feelings being. Not hating them because they're different or dangerous or even an abomination but because they are here to replace us. Because they are superior over normal humans due to them having the same base intellectual and physical capabilities but all having amazing superpowers.

    The solution to this is to not make mutant powers be this great thing, which it is often shown as. Make it be a real crapshoot in terms of what could happen to your son or daughter, where they might have something as simple as being able to change eye color or maybe being like that guy from Morrison's run who turned into a gas and had to stay in a suit to live. Instead of fearing them having laser eyes, pity them for being turned into stone and not being able to sit in a regular chair.

    Of course for the bigger winners in the mutant lottery, make it so that they have to get training for the powers, telepaths would have to be limited, with something like wearing a bracelet dampner or something (which of course under a bad writer would be fuel for a Days of Future Past type story, when I look at it through the lens of trying to appease mutants and humans), and when it comes to mutant villains who are repeat offenders they get hit with something akin to SPIN tech.

    I know these things will never, ever happen these days because writers will always look for an easy way out, especially when they've read and been told their whole life mutants have to be the victim in everything, but this gets them into new territory.

    TexiKen on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    See, I could kind of get behind a decent number of mutants having powers they would drop if they could. Kind of.

    Solar on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Having just read the first Kyle/Yost New-X-men story it's interesting to see how different most of the characters ended up becoming like Wither. I've read all of their X-Force run so far and it's cool to see them referencing so much from their previous work.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'd just like to point out that Cable took over a third world country in Cable and Deadpool.

    A lot of people were sent to kill him and destabilize the country as a result.

    Ringo on
    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Including Deadpool!

    But the people of the country were, as I recall, very impressed by and grateful to Cable.

    Wildcat on
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    And Latverians think Dr. Doom is a totally cool guy too.

    Furu on
  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, not by the end of Authoritative Action, anyway. God, I loved that story.

    Antimatter on
  • descdesc Goretexing to death Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Robos, I wasn't being entirely sarcastic either.

    I want Land off the book and Kate Beaton on it, anyway. It would be the best.

    desc on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What I really want is a Colleen Coover X-Men on-going.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    SecondComing_OneOfTheseXMenWillDie.jpg


    It's either Emma or Bobby (I guess that's Paige or Illyana tot he left of Colossus?)

    TexiKen on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    A lot of people are convinced it will be Kurt, based on the fact that he's both ubiquitous and completely expendable.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    no they should kill angel

    so a pregnant husk can cry at his grave

    and that will be why she has been mia for so long

    she was pregnant with his child

    and then something with mammomax happens

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    God, let it by Illyana. She had potential to be a good character 20 years ago, but she's even more of a mess than Psylocke these days.

    Hensler on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    A lot of people are convinced it will be Kurt, based on the fact that he's both ubiquitous and completely expendable.

    That would tie in to the biblical stuff being ham fisted in right now, as well as all the stuff with Second Coming having a gothic font to it.

    Also the whole die, die, everybody die stuff:

    THH.jpg

    TexiKen on
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Killing Colossus again would be hilarious

    I kind of hope it's Bobby, because he just feels so wasted. That way they'd only bring him back if they got somebody who actually wanted to write him. Or they could just give him back to Carey and I would buy X-books again.

    Killing Kurt would be pointless and tragic, so I'd give it even money

    Ringo on
    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There isn't one person I want to die on that list!

    I guess Husk, if that's her.

    Faynor on
    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Faynor would let them all die if Jean came back though

    Don't let him tell you otherwise

    CorporateLogo on
    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
  • FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    N-no! It's not true!

    Faynor on
    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    jean to come back and bore the x-men with her boringness so they kill her again

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Cable should die. He'd be back before christmas anyway.

    MastaP on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    No Cable should not die

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    If they killed Wolverine or Pixie I would be happy. Every other X-Men I'm pretty OK with.

    Solar on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    kill anole

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    They can't kill Pixie off

    Pixie Strikes Back hasn't finished yet

    CorporateLogo on
    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    but cl

    maybe she is striking back

    from beyooooooooooooond the graaaaaaaaaave

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    They can't kill Pixie off

    Pixie Strikes Back hasn't finished yet

    The next issues is her dead and nobody cares.

    Solar on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    no solar my post is better

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Damn you TLB.

    Solar on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    What if they don't save the world, then no one dies?

    Endless_Serpents on
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm thinking it's Nightcrawler because:

    1. He's redundant - Pixie can do his job
    2. He's been bitchy - see #1
    3. He's only fun when he's in swashbuckling mode, which has been a while
    EDIT: 4. Shock value - he's an iconic X-Man

    Other options:

    Colossus - Nope, Kitty just came back
    Magik (if that's her in the image) - Nope, she just came back, and we've already had the Colossus losing his sister story
    Husk (if that's her in the image) - Possibility... I haven't followed her since her creepy romance with Angel, so I couldn't say
    Iceman - Possibility due to how poorly he's been treated/written over the past couple of decades (give him to Carey, Marvel)
    (Arch)Angel - Not seeing it, due to him having his new found old badass side
    Emma - Possibility due to shock value, and to possibly explore a not-Jean/Hope and Cyclops angle
    Cable - Possibility due to shock value, and how much more can be written about him, anyway?

    Nightslyr on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think Cable makes the most sense for story purposes, as giving his life to save Hope is both consistent with his present characterization and the ultimate heroic act given that characterization. Furthermore, it makes sense as a denouement to the overall story of him going back in time to create a better future, since rescuing Hope both makes that better future possible in a decisive way and eliminates Cable's overall purpose.

    Additionally, he's more disposable than the other characters since his very nature makes his inevitable return really easy, whereas bringing Nightcrawler back from the dead would take some doing.

    And in general, I think the other possibilities for deaths haven't had enough build-up to make their deaths worthwhile as anything but shock value. As far as I know, Cable and Cyclops are the only people with any especially strong connection to Hope, which is something you need as a foundation for a meaningful sacrifice.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    don't damn me solar

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    but see nightcrawler's dad is a demon from hell so he could always strike a bargain

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    but see nightcrawler's dad is a demon from hell so he could always strike a bargain

    Everyone will forget who Nightcrawler really is?

    kdrudy on
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  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    no everyone will remember his marriage to mary jane watson

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    no everyone will remember his marriage to mary jane watson

    diabolical

    kdrudy on
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