FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
VII wasn't bad, but it wasn't that great either.
I never liked IX. At all. I bought it for PSN and I'm giving it another try, but I thought it was pretty slow and annoying in many ways.
And other than scaling monsters and the draw system (actually I liked the draw system but linking magic to your stats made it so using magic would weaken you, so I never would), I thought Final Fantasy VIII was great.
Final Fantasy XII was great in many ways but I really disliked the droves and droves of NPCs that existed merely as filler. I like FFXIII's approach to that better: tons of NPCs, but they basically just shout things at you as you run by them.
Final Fantasy XII was great in many ways but I really disliked the droves and droves of NPCs that existed merely as filler. I like FFXIII's approach to that better: tons of NPCs, but they basically just shout things at you as you run by them.
FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Stop stealing my smilies off my photobuckets you dicks
Is there anywhere I can get 8 and 9? I don't have a PS3.
VIII is available on PC, but it's an even worse port than VII. And no ones bothered to correct the translation/fix grammatical errors/replace many of the models/port it to an OpenGL engine that plays at whatever resolution you'd like/replace the music because it's VIII (at least, not last I checked).
What's stopping you from buying a copy of IX off eBay or Amazon? Do you have a PS2 or PS1?
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Is there anywhere I can get 8 and 9? I don't have a PS3.
VIII is available on PC, but it's an even worse port than VII. And no ones bothered to correct the translation/fix grammatical errors/replace many of the models/port it to an OpenGL engine that plays at whatever resolution you'd like/replace the music because it's VIII (at least, not last I checked).
What's stopping you from buying a copy of IX off eBay or Amazon? Do you have a PS2 or PS1?
I remember when FF7 and FF8 came out and I could not play them cause I didn't have a PS. It really bummed me out. Then I saw that they were gonna release it on PC. Holy shit was I fucking ecstatic. I played the shit out of both ports and loved every minute of it. It sucked that no other FF would come on the PC.
But when I saw screens of FFX, I'm like fuck this, I'm buying a PS2 just for that one game. Best purchase ever.
I was not happy about it. And then, to add insult to injury, my PS2 died. Three times.
I'm still a little unhappy about it.
FFVII was a difficult port, but it was entirely playable (in fact, it's actually easier to get running now, because of things like OpenGL custom drivers, etc.,) and you can get nifty things like model replacements and nicer textures and anti-aliasing.
Hell, we'd (and by we, I mean those of us who own the PC port) would be playing FFVII with Kingdom Hearts 2 models if Square Enix hadn't freaked the fuck out and scared every attempt into nonexistence. But that's just a cosmetic issue, I guess.
Also, glithert, I was just asking to see if you would need to buy the actual console to play it on.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
Naw. The only expensive PS1 games are the really niche ones/underground ones (Valkyrie Profile, Xenogears, etc) and FFVII for some reason.
Though these days Valkyrie Profile is really the only bad one as far as prices goes.
But man...one of these days I'm going to find a copy of Tales of Eternia that doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.
FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
Yeah. because I felt a great sense of "urgency" from twiddling my thumbs while waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up.
You know what battle system included urgency? The much-hated FFX-2's. None of the earlier ATB games had any such thing, even on the fastest combat speed setting.
In fact, if you want a real frenetic Final Fantasy combat experience, I suggest playing Final Fantasy X-2 on the fastest combat speed setting with the menu pausing thing disabled. Ignore the story and the characters if you like, but I think it's a bit absurd to argue that there is any urgency in the combat of FF7, 8, or 9. All it is is waiting. I mean, you yourself point out that FF time battle combat was never terribly complex. Correct, it wasn't. Nor did you really need to be strategic. How was removing that useless sense of fake "urgency" and replacing it with a strategic battle system bad?
edit: And yeah, that's just my opinion, but after playing almost all of the FFs at this point (I still haven't played the DS version of FF IV), I'd rate the PS1/PS2 era games something like this, in all honesty: FFX > FFVIII > FFXII ~= FFVII > FFFX-2 > FFIX. Where "greater than" simply means "how much enjoyment I got out of the game."
FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
Yeah. because I felt a great sense of "urgency" from twiddling my thumbs while waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up.
You know what battle system included urgency? The much-hated FFX-2's. None of the earlier ATB games had any such thing, even on the fastest combat speed setting.
In fact, if you want a real frenetic Final Fantasy combat experience, I suggest playing Final Fantasy X-2 on the fastest combat speed setting with the menu pausing thing disabled. Ignore the story and the characters if you like, but I think it's a bit absurd to argue that there is any urgency in the combat of FF7, 8, or 9. All it is is waiting.
I vastly prefer some urgency--forcing me to think out my decisions promptly--over none at all, especially when combat is incredibly simplified anyway. Your team mates positions? Doesn't matter. Who's in your party? Doesn't matter, you can swap them out. All you need to do is pick an option and pick a target.
That's literally it. I find that boring. I need something else to my combat. And if not, I'd at least like that if I sit around for 30 minutes because I fell asleep on my couch, the enemy will actually do something about it. Yeah, that's real exciting. Even chess has time limits. It's a problem in the other games too, but it's much worse in X. At least in VII, if I don't do something, the enemy will strike again, as oppose to politely waiting for me to hit the clock and finish my crackers and hot beverage.
Naw. The only expensive PS1 games are the really niche ones/underground ones (Valkyrie Profile, Xenogears, etc) and FFVII for some reason.
Though these days Valkyrie Profile is really the only bad one as far as prices goes.
But man...one of these days I'm going to find a copy of Tales of Eternia that doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.
I bought Tales of Eternia for the PSP. The UK version.
It cost me like 65 bucks.
I lost it (along with the PSP itself, Valkyrie Profile Lenneth, PoPoLoCrois, Wedding Crashers, at least one or two other UMDs I'm forgetting, and an 8 gig memory stick).
Men do not play with "wait" on or pick any speed other than "fastest."
having it on "active" means you just lose a couple more seconds if you'd rather scramble through a magic menu instead of hitting the enemy, which is rarely necessary since most FF games are piss-easy to begin with
FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
Yeah. because I felt a great sense of "urgency" from twiddling my thumbs while waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up.
You know what battle system included urgency? The much-hated FFX-2's. None of the earlier ATB games had any such thing, even on the fastest combat speed setting.
In fact, if you want a real frenetic Final Fantasy combat experience, I suggest playing Final Fantasy X-2 on the fastest combat speed setting with the menu pausing thing disabled. Ignore the story and the characters if you like, but I think it's a bit absurd to argue that there is any urgency in the combat of FF7, 8, or 9. All it is is waiting.
I vastly prefer some urgency--forcing me to think out my decisions--over none at all, especially when combat is incredibly simplified anyway. Your team mates positions? Doesn't matter. Who's in your party? Doesn't matter, you can swap them out. All you need to do is pick an option and pick a target.
That's literally it. I find that boring. I need something else to my combat. And if not, I'd at least like that if I sit around for 30 minutes because I fell asleep on my couch, the enemy will actually do something about it. Yeah, that's real exciting. Even chess has time limits. It's a problem in the other games too, but it's much worse in X. At least in VII, if I don't do something, the enemy will strike again, as oppose to politely waiting for me to hit the clock and finish my crackers and hot beverage.
*shrug*
I don't need a game prompting me to make a decision, at least not the boring, silly way it was done in FF7 through FF9. FFX-2 did it the right way. Combat could be really nutty.
I mean, when I play chess with someone, I don't whip out a championship-standard timepiece and expect them to make their decisions in 15-30 seconds or whatever. Sure, you can play that way, but I feel like urgency and strategy only combine well if you design them to combine well properly. Which I don't think the PS1-era FFs did. It was just a tacked-on timer to your actions.
But we're just arguing from opposite ends of the taste spectrum. I personally loathed ATB from the very beginning of FFVII to the very last moment I originally played of FFIX (which was about to the end of disc 1). I hated it the most in FFIX because of how slow the combat, and the engine, was in general.
And did you even bother with the arena in FFX? Sure, it wasn't necessary, but it added a lot of opportunity to strategize within the battle system.
Basically, my favorite kind of RPG battle system is what you find in Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga. That's CTB done really well. Nothing in any RPG has ever been more epic, in my opinion, than the hidden boss battle at the end of DDS vol. 1. FFX didn't go to those lengths, but it tried.
So really it's a matter of taste here. I prefer turn-based combat. I also enjoy action RPGs. And I hate turn-based combat with a tacked-on real time interface.
Also, how did any of the PS1 games really "force" you into decisions? Am I the only person that immediately knew what I was going to do most rounds and spent precious seconds waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up? There isn't much in any of the 7 through 9 games where this faux-urgency comes into play. I never found myself in a situation where I was getting pummeled or where my characters were just sitting there with a full ATB gauge because I was flummoxed and didn't know what to do.
Really, the ATB systems in 7 through 9 are more or less the same as the system in X, except that in FFX, the order your characters can act in are governed by a more complex system and that you don't have to wait before inputting commands. It's a much FASTER combat system, in fact, which is funny since it lacks this "sense of urgency" you are talking about.
Men do not play with "wait" on or pick any speed other than "fastest."
having it on "active" means you just lose a couple more seconds if you'd rather scramble through a magic menu instead of hitting the enemy, which is rarely necessary since most FF games are piss-easy to begin with
FFX is probably the best of the later games. First and foremost, CTB is much better than ATB ever was. By a large amount. Made combat much more strategic, which I loved. Until you got autohaste and damage break, anyway. I also really loved the aesthetic. And the story. Which actually made sense, at least for a Final Fantasy game.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
Yeah. because I felt a great sense of "urgency" from twiddling my thumbs while waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up.
You know what battle system included urgency? The much-hated FFX-2's. None of the earlier ATB games had any such thing, even on the fastest combat speed setting.
In fact, if you want a real frenetic Final Fantasy combat experience, I suggest playing Final Fantasy X-2 on the fastest combat speed setting with the menu pausing thing disabled. Ignore the story and the characters if you like, but I think it's a bit absurd to argue that there is any urgency in the combat of FF7, 8, or 9. All it is is waiting.
I vastly prefer some urgency--forcing me to think out my decisions--over none at all, especially when combat is incredibly simplified anyway. Your team mates positions? Doesn't matter. Who's in your party? Doesn't matter, you can swap them out. All you need to do is pick an option and pick a target.
That's literally it. I find that boring. I need something else to my combat. And if not, I'd at least like that if I sit around for 30 minutes because I fell asleep on my couch, the enemy will actually do something about it. Yeah, that's real exciting. Even chess has time limits. It's a problem in the other games too, but it's much worse in X. At least in VII, if I don't do something, the enemy will strike again, as oppose to politely waiting for me to hit the clock and finish my crackers and hot beverage.
*shrug*
I don't need a game prompting me to make a decision, at least not the boring, silly way it was done in FF7 through FF9. FFX-2 did it the right way. Combat could be really nutty.
I mean, when I play chess with someone, I don't whip out a championship-standard timepiece and expect them to make their decisions in 15-30 seconds or whatever. Sure, you can play that way, but I feel like urgency and strategy only combine well if you design them to combine well properly. Which I don't think the PS1-era FFs did. It was just a tacked-on timer to your actions.
But we're just arguing from opposite ends of the taste spectrum. I personally loathed ATB from the very beginning of FFVII to the very last moment I originally played of FFIX (which was about to the end of disc 1). I hated it the most in FFIX because of how slow the combat, and the engine, was in general.
And did you even bother with the arena in FFX? Sure, it wasn't necessary, but it added a lot of opportunity to strategize within the battle system.
Basically, my favorite kind of RPG battle system is what you find in Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga. That's CTB done really well. Nothing in any RPG has ever been more epic, in my opinion, than the hidden boss battle at the end of DDS vol. 1. FFX didn't go to those lengths, but it tried.
So really it's a matter of taste here. I prefer turn-based combat. I also enjoy action RPGs. And I hate turn-based combat with a tacked-on real time interface.
Also, how did any of the PS1 games really "force" you into decisions? Am I the only person that immediately knew what I was going to do most rounds and spent precious seconds waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up? There isn't much in any of the 7 through 9 games where this faux-urgency comes into play. I never found myself in a situation where I was getting pummeled or where my characters were just sitting there with a full ATB gauge because I was flummoxed and didn't know what to do.
Really, the ATB systems in 7 through 9 are more or less the same as the system in X, except that in FFX, the order your characters can act in are governed by a more complex system and that you don't have to wait before inputting commands. It's a much FASTER combat system, in fact, which is funny since it lacks this "sense of urgency" you are talking about.
*shrug*
*shrug* Right back to you. I already said it was entirely a matter of opinion. With haste, I've never encountered a fight in FFVII that was slower than a fight in FFX. Ever.
I'm being literal. And there's no added in-fight complexity in FFX in terms of selecting attacks versus the prior titles, in any way that's substantial. Want to hit everyone with a spell instead of just one? Just push 'left' once more.
I'd agree insofar as FFX-2 handling it better the others. In fact, I actually dislike the combat in IX (though I didn't finish the game, so I usually don't consider it) because of the pacing. Seeing how there was barely any planning you could do in any of the games, VI through X, there's hardly anything else to do in a turn. Personally, if I felt I absolutely needed 10 minute or 5 minutes or whatever to make a decision without anything else including the enemy change ever, why am I playing a FF game? I want to respond to changing circumstances as they appear, even if its inconvenient, not five turns down the line. It's the same reason I don't want the enemy to automatically do whatever I want it to do every round of combat.
Having the fight change fundamentally while you're planning is not a bad thing. It actually makes combat interesting, because God knows its pretty boring in most of these. I like realizing that I need to analyze something differently, that enemy weaknesses has changed, and they might change back while I'm still responding. When an enemy changes in the middle of your turn, having to scrap a previous plan and go to a new one isn't an insult, it's a challenge. But that's just how I feel about it.
If I wanted turn based combat, I'd play something in which turns consisted of something more complex than "hit person" "use magic on person", and "use item". In other words, I probably wouldn't play FF, in that case.
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joshgotroDeviled EggThe Land of REAL CHILIRegistered Userregular
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VII wasn't bad, but it wasn't that great either.
I never liked IX. At all. I bought it for PSN and I'm giving it another try, but I thought it was pretty slow and annoying in many ways.
And other than scaling monsters and the draw system (actually I liked the draw system but linking magic to your stats made it so using magic would weaken you, so I never would), I thought Final Fantasy VIII was great.
Final Fantasy XII was great in many ways but I really disliked the droves and droves of NPCs that existed merely as filler. I like FFXIII's approach to that better: tons of NPCs, but they basically just shout things at you as you run by them.
Exaaaactly this.
I'm just gonna say this. You can have your annoying minigames (hello FFIX) or no minigames at all (hello FFXIII). You're never gonna be happy. Ever.
I....I certainly acknowledge that your opinion is as valid as anyone's, but I have to disagree.
X's CTB basically took away something FF combat needed desperately--urgency. Because, let's face it, FF time battle combat is not terribly complex. It wasn't in VI, it wasn't in VII, it wasn't in VIII, etc. At least timing could hold your attention. Otherwise, it becomes backgammon for people missing at least one of their hands. When combat is a major part of the game, and much of it can be done blindfolded, it detracts from the experience, I feel.
X's aesthetic was pretty unique, but I personally hated it. Then again, I didn't really like the story, and the aesthetic went in hand with that, so I guess that's not surprising. The more bizarre and unrelatable FF settings become, the less impressed by them I am. An underground doom chamber can be bizarrely weird, sure, but the whole goddamn world? Not everyone will feel that way, of course.
Again, that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than yours or anyone elses'. I just had to put that out there. Maybe I should have just said this instead:
...Well except Dragonkias. He has Good Taste
Though I take long breaks from it, I usually enjoy the experience of actually playing it.
Can I use it Rent?
No! You hate the second best FF of all time!
it really is such a good smiley
That is true. Well, I can't compromise my principles. I'm old fashion like that.
Incidentally, I don't think we can do this much longer.
VIII is available on PC, but it's an even worse port than VII. And no ones bothered to correct the translation/fix grammatical errors/replace many of the models/port it to an OpenGL engine that plays at whatever resolution you'd like/replace the music because it's VIII (at least, not last I checked).
What's stopping you from buying a copy of IX off eBay or Amazon? Do you have a PS2 or PS1?
Amazon. You can get both for like 10 bucks.
I remember when FF7 and FF8 came out and I could not play them cause I didn't have a PS. It really bummed me out. Then I saw that they were gonna release it on PC. Holy shit was I fucking ecstatic. I played the shit out of both ports and loved every minute of it. It sucked that no other FF would come on the PC.
But when I saw screens of FFX, I'm like fuck this, I'm buying a PS2 just for that one game. Best purchase ever.
Xbox Live: Kunohara
And I have an old fat PS2, why?
I was not happy about it. And then, to add insult to injury, my PS2 died. Three times.
I'm still a little unhappy about it.
FFVII was a difficult port, but it was entirely playable (in fact, it's actually easier to get running now, because of things like OpenGL custom drivers, etc.,) and you can get nifty things like model replacements and nicer textures and anti-aliasing.
Hell, we'd (and by we, I mean those of us who own the PC port) would be playing FFVII with Kingdom Hearts 2 models if Square Enix hadn't freaked the fuck out and scared every attempt into nonexistence. But that's just a cosmetic issue, I guess.
Also, glithert, I was just asking to see if you would need to buy the actual console to play it on.
Though these days Valkyrie Profile is really the only bad one as far as prices goes.
But man...one of these days I'm going to find a copy of Tales of Eternia that doesn't make me feel like I'm being ripped off.
Yeah. because I felt a great sense of "urgency" from twiddling my thumbs while waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up.
You know what battle system included urgency? The much-hated FFX-2's. None of the earlier ATB games had any such thing, even on the fastest combat speed setting.
In fact, if you want a real frenetic Final Fantasy combat experience, I suggest playing Final Fantasy X-2 on the fastest combat speed setting with the menu pausing thing disabled. Ignore the story and the characters if you like, but I think it's a bit absurd to argue that there is any urgency in the combat of FF7, 8, or 9. All it is is waiting. I mean, you yourself point out that FF time battle combat was never terribly complex. Correct, it wasn't. Nor did you really need to be strategic. How was removing that useless sense of fake "urgency" and replacing it with a strategic battle system bad?
edit: And yeah, that's just my opinion, but after playing almost all of the FFs at this point (I still haven't played the DS version of FF IV), I'd rate the PS1/PS2 era games something like this, in all honesty: FFX > FFVIII > FFXII ~= FFVII > FFFX-2 > FFIX. Where "greater than" simply means "how much enjoyment I got out of the game."
I haven't played enough of FFXIII to rate it yet.
I vastly prefer some urgency--forcing me to think out my decisions promptly--over none at all, especially when combat is incredibly simplified anyway. Your team mates positions? Doesn't matter. Who's in your party? Doesn't matter, you can swap them out. All you need to do is pick an option and pick a target.
That's literally it. I find that boring. I need something else to my combat. And if not, I'd at least like that if I sit around for 30 minutes because I fell asleep on my couch, the enemy will actually do something about it. Yeah, that's real exciting. Even chess has time limits. It's a problem in the other games too, but it's much worse in X. At least in VII, if I don't do something, the enemy will strike again, as oppose to politely waiting for me to hit the clock and finish my crackers and hot beverage.
I bought Tales of Eternia for the PSP. The UK version.
It cost me like 65 bucks.
I lost it (along with the PSP itself, Valkyrie Profile Lenneth, PoPoLoCrois, Wedding Crashers, at least one or two other UMDs I'm forgetting, and an 8 gig memory stick).
Good news is that both got much cheaper PSP versions. Well, ToE only in Europe, but PSPs are region free for a reason!
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
hell, turn-based systems probably go faster
because you can at least sling out commands without waiting for some dumbass bar to refill
The rest of the ATB games? I'll agree with you. But not X-2.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Men do not play with "wait" on or pick any speed other than "fastest."
having it on "active" means you just lose a couple more seconds if you'd rather scramble through a magic menu instead of hitting the enemy, which is rarely necessary since most FF games are piss-easy to begin with
the ATB system is horribly generic and outdated
give me Megaten's press turn system any day
Huh. I have a copy of Valkyrie Profile PS1. Never played it more than an hour or two. I guess I could sell it.
*shrug*
I don't need a game prompting me to make a decision, at least not the boring, silly way it was done in FF7 through FF9. FFX-2 did it the right way. Combat could be really nutty.
I mean, when I play chess with someone, I don't whip out a championship-standard timepiece and expect them to make their decisions in 15-30 seconds or whatever. Sure, you can play that way, but I feel like urgency and strategy only combine well if you design them to combine well properly. Which I don't think the PS1-era FFs did. It was just a tacked-on timer to your actions.
But we're just arguing from opposite ends of the taste spectrum. I personally loathed ATB from the very beginning of FFVII to the very last moment I originally played of FFIX (which was about to the end of disc 1). I hated it the most in FFIX because of how slow the combat, and the engine, was in general.
And did you even bother with the arena in FFX? Sure, it wasn't necessary, but it added a lot of opportunity to strategize within the battle system.
Basically, my favorite kind of RPG battle system is what you find in Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga. That's CTB done really well. Nothing in any RPG has ever been more epic, in my opinion, than the hidden boss battle at the end of DDS vol. 1. FFX didn't go to those lengths, but it tried.
So really it's a matter of taste here. I prefer turn-based combat. I also enjoy action RPGs. And I hate turn-based combat with a tacked-on real time interface.
Also, how did any of the PS1 games really "force" you into decisions? Am I the only person that immediately knew what I was going to do most rounds and spent precious seconds waiting for the ATB gauge to fill up? There isn't much in any of the 7 through 9 games where this faux-urgency comes into play. I never found myself in a situation where I was getting pummeled or where my characters were just sitting there with a full ATB gauge because I was flummoxed and didn't know what to do.
Really, the ATB systems in 7 through 9 are more or less the same as the system in X, except that in FFX, the order your characters can act in are governed by a more complex system and that you don't have to wait before inputting commands. It's a much FASTER combat system, in fact, which is funny since it lacks this "sense of urgency" you are talking about.
*shrug*
Not good news anymore, at least not for ToE. Last I checked, it was discontinued, impossible to find and/or $65+.
Good news for me, I still have an extra factory sealed one back when I accidentally bought 2 when they were $30.
*shrug* Right back to you. I already said it was entirely a matter of opinion. With haste, I've never encountered a fight in FFVII that was slower than a fight in FFX. Ever.
I'm being literal. And there's no added in-fight complexity in FFX in terms of selecting attacks versus the prior titles, in any way that's substantial. Want to hit everyone with a spell instead of just one? Just push 'left' once more.
I'd agree insofar as FFX-2 handling it better the others. In fact, I actually dislike the combat in IX (though I didn't finish the game, so I usually don't consider it) because of the pacing. Seeing how there was barely any planning you could do in any of the games, VI through X, there's hardly anything else to do in a turn. Personally, if I felt I absolutely needed 10 minute or 5 minutes or whatever to make a decision without anything else including the enemy change ever, why am I playing a FF game? I want to respond to changing circumstances as they appear, even if its inconvenient, not five turns down the line. It's the same reason I don't want the enemy to automatically do whatever I want it to do every round of combat.
Having the fight change fundamentally while you're planning is not a bad thing. It actually makes combat interesting, because God knows its pretty boring in most of these. I like realizing that I need to analyze something differently, that enemy weaknesses has changed, and they might change back while I'm still responding. When an enemy changes in the middle of your turn, having to scrap a previous plan and go to a new one isn't an insult, it's a challenge. But that's just how I feel about it.
If I wanted turn based combat, I'd play something in which turns consisted of something more complex than "hit person" "use magic on person", and "use item". In other words, I probably wouldn't play FF, in that case.
Edit: shit.