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[Supernatural]: This is why we can't have nice things, Sam.

ReznikReznik Registered User regular
edited April 2013 in Debate and/or Discourse
SUPERNATURAL

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Previous thread

Supernatural is a drama/horror television series about brothers Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean Winchester (Jensen Ackles) who travel around Vancouver the US saving people and hunting evil things like ghosts and demons. Along the way they meet some crazy new enemies and allies and nearly every female character dies. Classic rock plays throughout.

It airs on the CW on Wednesdays at 9 PM Eastern.

Current Season: 8

Last Episode: 8.19 Taxi Driver

Next Episode: 8.20 Pac-Man Fever

The Road So Far:

Season 1
Brothers Sam and Dean Winchester team up to find their father, John, who went missing on a hunting trip. However, their father isn't a typical hunter: he hunts supernatural creatures like ghosts, vampires, and various demons and he's trained his sons to do the same. Along the way, Sam and Dean save innocent people, fight creatures and ghosts, and collect clues to their father's whereabouts. Sam begins to mysteriously develop psychic abilities and visions as they travel. They eventually find their father, who reveals that the creature that killed Sam and Dean's mother years earlier is a yellow-eyed demon and the only thing that can kill him is a legendary gun created by Samuel Colt.

Episode List:
1.01 Pilot
1.02 Wendigo
1.03 Dead in the Water
1.04 Phantom Traveler
1.05 Bloody Mary
1.06 Skin
1.07 Hookman
1.08 Bugs
1.09 Home
1.10 Asylum
1.11 Scarecrow
1.12 Faith
1.13 Route 666
1.14 Nightmare
1.15 The Benders
1.16 Shadow
1.17 Hell House
1.18 Something Wicked
1.19 Provenance
1.20 Dead Man's Blood
1.21 Salvation
1.22 Devil's Trap

Season 2
Sam and Dean deal with their father's death and continue to hunt the yellow-eyed demon with assistance from new allies Ellen, Jo, and Ash. Part of the demon's plan is revealed as he gathers Sam and others like him, leading to Sam dying. Dean makes a deal with a crossroads demon to bring back Sam in exchange for his soul, which will be collected in one year. In a final confrontation, in which Dean kills the yellow-eyed demon, a hell's gate is opened, releasing numerous demons from within.

Episode List:
2.01 In My Time Of Dying
2.02 Everybody Loves a Clown
2.03 Bloodlust
2.04 Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things
2.05 Simon Said
2.06 No Exit
2.07 The Usual Suspects
2.08 Crossroad Blues
2.09 Croatoan
2.10 Hunted
2.11 Playthings
2.12 Nightshifter
2.13 Houses of the Holy
2.14 Born Under a Bad Sign
2.15 Tall Tales
2.16 Roadkill
2.17 Heart
2.18 Hollywood Babylon
2.19 Folsom Prison Blues
2.20 What Is and What Should Never Be
2.21 All Hell Breaks Loose: Part One
2.22 All Hell Breaks Loose: Part Two

Season 3
Sam tries to save Dean from his deal while they track down the demons that were released from the gate. Along the way, the brothers meet a demon named Ruby who has an interest in Sam and claims to be able to help save Dean. Also, they meet Bela Talbot, an "acquirer" and seller of occult objects and constant thorn in their side. The brothers eventually learn what demon holds Dean's contract: Lilith. They, along with Ruby, track her down and attempt to kill her. Lilith is unable to stop Sam due to his mysterious abilities, however, Dean's contract expires and his soul is taken to hell.

Episode List:
3.01 The Magnificent Seven
3.02 The Kids Are Alright
3.03 Bad Day at Black Rock
3.04 Sin City
3.05 Bedtime Stories
3.06 Red Sky At Morning
3.07 Fresh Blood
3.08 A Very Supernatural Christmas
3.09 Malleus Maleficarum
3.10 Dream a Little Dream of Me
3.11 Mystery Spot
3.12 Jus in Bello
3.13 Ghostfacers
3.14 Long-Distance Call
3.15 Time Is On My Side
3.16 No Rest For The Wicked

Season 4
Dean is rescued from hell by an angel named Castiel; one of many angels that appear throughout the season. The brothers work with him to stop Lilith's plan of breaking the 66 seals, which would allow Lucifer to walk free. Sam and Dean's relationship is strained as Sam starts siding with Ruby over Dean. He also begins to give into his demonic side by drinking demon blood to become strong enough to defeat Lilith. After tracking down and killing Lilith, Sam learns that her death is actually the last seal and that Ruby was deceiving him all along. Dean arrives too late to stop him, but kills Ruby as Lucifer's prison opens up beneath them.

Episode List:
4.01 Lazarus Rising
4.02 Are You There, God? It's Me, Dean Winchester
4.03 In The Beginning
4.04 Metamorphosis
4.05 Monster Movie
4.06 Yellow Fever
4.07 It's The Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester
4.08 Wishful Thinking
4.09 I Know What You Did Last Summer
4.10 Heaven And Hell
4.11 Family Remains
4.12 Criss Angel Is A Douchebag
4.13 After School Special
4.14 Sex And Violence
4.15 Death Takes A Holiday
4.16 On The Head Of A Pin
4.17 It's A Terrible Life
4.18 The Monster At The End Of This Book
4.19 Jump The Shark
4.20 The Rapture
4.21 When The Levee Breaks
4.22 Lucifer Rising

Season 5
The brothers fight to stop Lucifer and save the world from the Apocalypse. Dean and Sam battle angels and demons as they fight their destiny to become the vessels of Michael and Lucifer. Unable to defeat Lucifer, they collect the rings of the Four Horsemen, which act as the keys to Lucifer's prison. The idea of destiny versus freedom and choice play a big role. Throughout the season, Dean, Sam, Castiel, and Bobby each have a crisis as they near giving up. However, through each other's support, they continue forward until the end.

Episode List:
5.01 Sympathy For The Devil
5.02 Good God Y'All
5.03 Free To Be You And Me
5.04 The End
5.05 Fallen Idols
5.06 I Believe The Children Are Our Future
5.07 The Curious Case Of Dean Winchester
5.08 Changing Channels
5.09 The Real Ghostbusters
5.10 Abandon All Hope
5.11 Sam, Interrupted
5.12 Swap Meat
5.13 The Song Remains The Same
5.14 My Bloody Valentine
5.15 Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
5.16 Dark Side Of The Moon
5.17 99 Problems
5.18 Point Of No Return
5.19 Hammer Of The Gods
5.20 The Devil You Know
5.21 Two Minutes To Midnight
5.22 Swan Song

Season 6
A year passed since Sam went to hell. Dean attempted to live a civilian life, until Sam mysteriously returns without his soul. It takes Dean bargaining with Death to get it back. Castiel, desperate and at war with Raphael, forges an uneasy alliance with Crowley to open Purgatory and steal the souls for power. The brothers try to stop Castiel but he refuses to listen and instead removes the wall in Sam's head that was keeping back his memories of hell. In the end, Castiel takes in all the souls and kills Raphael. He declares himself the new God and commands Sam, Dean and Bobby to bow down before him and worship him.

Episode List:
6.01 Exile on Main Street
6.02 Two and a Half Men
6.03 The Third Man
6.04 Weekend at Bobby's
6.05 Live Free or Twi Hard
6.06 You Can't Handle the Truth
6.07 Family Matters
6.08 All Dogs go to Heaven
6.09 Clap Your Hands if You Believe
6.10 Caged Heat
6.11 Appointment in Samarra
6.12 Like a Virgin
6.13 Unforgiven
6.14 Mannequin 3: The Reckoning
6.15 The French Mistake
6.16 And Then There Were None
6.17 My Heart Will Go On
6.18 Frontierland
6.19 Mommy Dearest
6.20 The Man Who Would Be King
6.21 Let It Bleed
6.22 The Man Who Knew Too Much

Official Site
SPN Wiki
Official twitter
Jared Padalecki's twitter (Sam)
Jim Beaver's twitter (Bobby)
Misha Collins's twitter (Castiel)
Richard Speight Jr's twitter (Gabriel)

Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
Reznik on
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Posts

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    :^: CSI Pic.

    Houn on
  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So I'm just wondering
    After Hammer of The Gods, where Lucifer stabs Gabriel...why the hell haven't the other archangels just gang-raped Lucifer with their super-swords?

    I mean...if it works on one it'd work on the other, I'm assuming.

    TracerBullet on
    SoaL wrote:
    I didn't know you're a practicing magician
    TyrantCow wrote: »
    I will get hit by a car if you don't send me drugs!
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited April 2010
    So I'm just wondering
    After Hammer of The Gods, where Lucifer stabs Gabriel...why the hell haven't the other archangels just gang-raped Lucifer with their super-swords?

    I mean...if it works on one it'd work on the other, I'm assuming.

    Like I said in the last thread, they seem to have a particular hard-on for following the prophecy to the letter. IE, they probably could wipe Lucifer out with little issue if they'd just all group together and do so, but they're so narrow-minded, they can't even comprehend of taking him down any other way than with a Dean-suit.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • CojonesCojones Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So I'm just wondering
    After Hammer of The Gods, where Lucifer stabs Gabriel...why the hell haven't the other archangels just gang-raped Lucifer with their super-swords?

    I mean...if it works on one it'd work on the other, I'm assuming.

    Like I said in the last thread, they seem to have a particular hard-on for following the prophecy to the letter. IE, they probably could wipe Lucifer out with little issue if they'd just all group together and do so, but they're so narrow-minded, they can't even comprehend of taking him down any other way than with a Dean-suit.

    This said, I wonder if this week's ending
    in which Gabriel discusses how Lucifer could be re-trapped with the four rings
    would negate the requirement for Michael and Lucifer to dance the lambada.

    I'm not sure if this has been raised before, but why hasn't Michael tried to take on Lucifer in a vessel other than Dean? We've already seen him ride papa Winchester in that ridiculous terminator episode, why not just jump back into the future and take him on in that state?

    Cojones on
    exmac.png
  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Cojones wrote: »
    So I'm just wondering
    After Hammer of The Gods, where Lucifer stabs Gabriel...why the hell haven't the other archangels just gang-raped Lucifer with their super-swords?

    I mean...if it works on one it'd work on the other, I'm assuming.

    Like I said in the last thread, they seem to have a particular hard-on for following the prophecy to the letter. IE, they probably could wipe Lucifer out with little issue if they'd just all group together and do so, but they're so narrow-minded, they can't even comprehend of taking him down any other way than with a Dean-suit.

    This said, I wonder if this week's ending
    in which Gabriel discusses how Lucifer could be re-trapped with the four rings
    would negate the requirement for Michael and Lucifer to dance the lambada.

    I'm not sure if this has been raised before, but why hasn't Michael tried to take on Lucifer in a vessel other than Dean? We've already seen him ride papa Winchester in that ridiculous terminator episode, why not just jump back into the future and take him on in that state?


    Well, I think it WILL remove the need for Michael and Lucifer to fight...for now. I mean, technically all they'd be doing is delaying the apocalypse. I mean, if the cage could be opened once, it'll be opened again.

    TracerBullet on
    SoaL wrote:
    I didn't know you're a practicing magician
    TyrantCow wrote: »
    I will get hit by a car if you don't send me drugs!
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I wonder if they'll explain why the four horsemen have those rings in the first place.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • CojonesCojones Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I wonder if they'll explain why the four horsemen have those rings in the first place.
    With three episodes to go I doubt that they'll go into it. I could be wrong, but I imagine that we're going to see episodes similar to the war and famine ones coming up, followed by a giant show-down on the 6th.

    This series has had far too little Michael and far too many scenes of
    Gabriel being killed :cry:

    Cojones on
    exmac.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    So I'm just wondering
    After Hammer of The Gods, where Lucifer stabs Gabriel...why the hell haven't the other archangels just gang-raped Lucifer with their super-swords?

    I mean...if it works on one it'd work on the other, I'm assuming.

    the actual answer, as we all know, is that the writers can't allow that to happen

    the powers of the various celestial/infernal creatures vary wildly from situation to situation, by the whim of narrative convenience

    you can't really try to draw a conclusion from any premises using past events in the show, because they don't really care about creating a consistent world

    because you can't, if you are talking about angels and demons and pagan gods and vampires and ghosts and time travel and horsemen of the apocalypse and god and satan and indian folklore and etc.

    there is no reason to even attempt to apply logic here, because literally every scenario and entity is constructed entirely for narrative convenience in that particular moment.

    the end goal of that being ridiculously good looking brothers wisecracking as they punch demons

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think "belief = power" has been established in Supernatural. As common as it is in fantasy books.

    Remember the Christmas Pagan Gods? They pretty much said they became weaker as fewer people believed in them.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    I don't think "belief = power" has been established in Supernatural. As common as it is in fantasy books.

    Remember the Christmas Pagan Gods? They pretty much said they became weaker as fewer people believed in them.

    That's those gods, I doubt thats universal, THE God has quite clearly been significantly more powerful than anything else for...ever, Lucifer is uber powerful without belief and after having been locked away for a long time and God created him therefore God must be more powerful. Plus all the higher ups seem to be able to literally warp time, space and reality.

    DarkWarrior on
    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    That's those gods, I doubt thats universal, THE God has quite clearly been significantly more powerful than anything else for...ever, Lucifer is uber powerful without belief and after having been locked away for a long time and God created him therefore God must be more powerful. Plus all the higher ups seem to be able to literally warp time, space and reality.

    The other pagan gods probably fall into the same category if they're so much weaker than even angels.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Final episode promo is here folks:
    Death? What about about Luci, or does this mean that Dean will make a deal with Death to trap Lucifer. And doesn't those deals always end up with someone dead.

    Cade on
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Cade wrote: »
    Final episode promo is here folks:
    Death? What about about Luci, or does this mean that Dean will make a deal with Death to trap Lucifer. And doesn't those deals always end up with someone dead.
    That doesn't seem right. It matches the description for 5.21, though the date doesn't match up. Is there a break for a week somewhere?

    5.21 description
    -Crowley tells Bobby he will give him the location of Death (guest star Julian Richings), the fourth horseman, in exchange for his soul. Knowing Sam and Dean need that fourth ring to stop the Apocalypse, Bobby reluctantly agrees. Sam and Dean confront Pestilence (guest star Matt Frewer), but he unleashes a deadly virus upon them, so Castiel must intervene on their behalf. Dean has a meeting with Death to discuss Lucifer, and an unholy alliance is formed at a very high price for Dean. SpoilerTV
    -Sera Gamble tells me that Dean's looming face-off with Death is hands-down one of my favorite scenes in the history of the show. Ausiello

    5.22 description
    -The showdown between good and evil is at hand. With the Apocalypse looming, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) realize they are out of options and make heart-breaking decisions that will change their lives forever. A beloved character faces death. SpoilerTV
    -Sera Gamble: "We're leading up to the big Death Match between Lucifer and Michael, which would cause the destruction of half the planet...Sam and Dean, of course, are trying to throw a wrench in the works but these are the most powerful beings they've ever been up against, so their odds aren't great. Sam comes up with an incredibly risky Hail Mary to defeat Lucifer, which involves spending some very creepy, violent one-on-one time with the guy. Terrible for Sam, but pretty damn fun to watch." Ausiello
    -Lucifer seeks “revenge on God for betraying him by annihilating God’s primary love—people. And let’s put it this way: You should definitely expect some pretty crazy bloodletting.” TV Guide Magazine

    Reznik on
    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I sort of imagined Death being massive, after the episode where he was summoned and was towering over Lucifer, not sure how they would portray that though.

    Oh and what was that song from the promo? I like me some of that.

    Venkman90 on
  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    I sort of imagined Death being massive, after the episode where he was summoned and was towering over Lucifer, not sure how they would portray that though.

    Oh and what was that song from the promo? I like me some of that.

    Honestly, the four horseman have been fairly disappointing in general.

    I mean, famine:
    Just killed like, what, six people? And made Castiel super hungry for red meat?

    I'm hoping we get to see something impressive from Pestilence and Death, because so far, the apocalypse hasn't been very...apocalyptic.

    And All I can really imagine when I see Death from that Trailer is Jay-Z playing in the background. I mean, it just screams "Dirt off your shoulder"

    TracerBullet on
    SoaL wrote:
    I didn't know you're a practicing magician
    TyrantCow wrote: »
    I will get hit by a car if you don't send me drugs!
  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think "belief = power" has been established in Supernatural. As common as it is in fantasy books.

    Remember the Christmas Pagan Gods? They pretty much said they became weaker as fewer people believed in them.

    Well, it could also be that all the other previous Gods are gods of aspects of something. They've had forest gods, gods of destruction etc etc, while the judeo-christian god is simply THE God in the story. He isn't the God of this region, or the God of angry kittens, he's just...God.

    TracerBullet on
    SoaL wrote:
    I didn't know you're a practicing magician
    TyrantCow wrote: »
    I will get hit by a car if you don't send me drugs!
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    I sort of imagined Death being massive, after the episode where he was summoned and was towering over Lucifer, not sure how they would portray that though.

    Oh and what was that song from the promo? I like me some of that.

    Honestly, the four horseman have been fairly disappointing in general.

    I mean, famine:
    Just killed like, what, six people? And made Castiel super hungry for red meat?

    I'm hoping we get to see something impressive from Pestilence and Death, because so far, the apocalypse hasn't been very...apocalyptic.

    And All I can really imagine when I see Death from that Trailer is Jay-Z playing in the background. I mean, it just screams "Dirt off your shoulder"

    Famine was pretty much killing everyone in that town. That entire diner died just by him getting near it. As for the apocalypse not being very apocalyptic, the show has a small town feel. We're seeing the beginning of the apocalypse from that perspective. Episode 4, "The End", showed what the full-fledged apocalypse would look like.

    Maybe I just view the show differently, but I haven't been disappointed at all this season, except for maybe the sparring appearances of Lucifer and the kids messing with black magic episode. I've really enjoyed all three Horsemen episodes so far (If we count Death's Zombie raising episode).

    Lynx on
  • TracerBulletTracerBullet Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    I sort of imagined Death being massive, after the episode where he was summoned and was towering over Lucifer, not sure how they would portray that though.

    Oh and what was that song from the promo? I like me some of that.

    Honestly, the four horseman have been fairly disappointing in general.

    I mean, famine:
    Just killed like, what, six people? And made Castiel super hungry for red meat?

    I'm hoping we get to see something impressive from Pestilence and Death, because so far, the apocalypse hasn't been very...apocalyptic.

    And All I can really imagine when I see Death from that Trailer is Jay-Z playing in the background. I mean, it just screams "Dirt off your shoulder"

    Famine was pretty much killing everyone in that town. That entire diner died just by him getting near it. As for the apocalypse not being very apocalyptic, the show has a small town feel. We're seeing the beginning of the apocalypse from that perspective. Episode 4, "The End", showed what the full-fledged apocalypse would look like.

    Maybe I just view the show differently, but I haven't been disappointed at all this season, except for maybe the sparring appearances of Lucifer and the kids messing with black magic episode. I've really enjoyed all three Horsemen episodes so far (If we count Death's Zombie raising episode).

    I enjoyed War's episode, and I loved the Whore of Babylon, those were great...but in my opinion it just keeps feeling like the boys are getting through them too easily.

    TracerBullet on
    SoaL wrote:
    I didn't know you're a practicing magician
    TyrantCow wrote: »
    I will get hit by a car if you don't send me drugs!
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Before the season started Im sure they said they were going to have the four horsemen in colour-coded Muscle-cars. Sadly this is not the case :(

    DarkWarrior on
    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Before the season started Im sure they said they were going to have the four horsemen in colour-coded Muscle-cars. Sadly this is not the case :(

    I think they did. But after War's red Mustang, there's not a whole lot of horse-themed muscle cars. Famine's was a little off (the color was fine, but an Escalade?), but Pestilence's beat up pale green hatchback fits really well and Death's
    white 50s Caddy oozes style.
    Definitely my favorite of the four, with War's Mustang close behind.

    Lynx on
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Lynx wrote: »
    Before the season started Im sure they said they were going to have the four horsemen in colour-coded Muscle-cars. Sadly this is not the case :(

    I think they did. But after War's red Mustang, there's not a whole lot of horse-themed muscle cars. Famine's was a little off (Black Escalade?), but Pestilence's beat up pale green jalopy fits really well and Death's
    white 50s Caddy oozes style.
    Definitely my favorite of the four, with War's Mustang close behind.

    I was just expecting classic stuff like the boys, Pestilence's fits but the muscle cars are gorgeous. Deaths of course is awesome because its the 'pale horse'

    DarkWarrior on
    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Is anyone else super excited for a Ghost Facers web series?

    I think I would honestly be alright if afters season six sam and dean both die and the ghostfacers become the new hunters on the block, especially since like every other hunter out there is all but dead at this point.

    amateurhour on

    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    I hate the Ghostfacers, I dont find them entertaining and they detract from any episode they're in. It was kinda cute at first but it wore its welcome out fully after that. This series has far too much meta and side humour now with crap like Chuck and the Wincest as it is.

    DarkWarrior on
    ...it's in the shape of a giant c**k.
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I would be quite content if the Ghostfacers got killed because there's no reason why incompetent douchebags like them should still be alive while other real, capable hunters get offed.

    They're the Jar Jar of Supernatural.

    Reznik on
    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, one of the Ghostfacers didn't make it.

    Bolthorn on
  • LynxLynx Registered User
    edited April 2010
    I thought both of their episodes were funny enough, but unlike the Trickster/Gabriel or Chuck, I'd probably get pretty annoyed if they showed up in the main series again.

    As far as the webseries goes, I'll probably watch it just to see how it is, but I'm not terribly excited about it.
    That's those gods, I doubt thats universal, THE God has quite clearly been significantly more powerful than anything else for...ever, Lucifer is uber powerful without belief and after having been locked away for a long time and God created him therefore God must be more powerful. Plus all the higher ups seem to be able to literally warp time, space and reality.

    The other pagan gods probably fall into the same category if they're so much weaker than even angels.

    I'm pretty sure the other pagan gods are more powerful than angels, but less powerful than archangels. And, if we take into context that faith makes them stronger, it makes some amount of sense. Kali was easily the strongest of the pagan gods present at the meeting, but the archangels were stronger for the simple fact that if we count ALL of the Abrahamic religions together, they far out number members of every other religion, including Hinduism. There are nearly 4 billion people who count themselves as a member of one of the Abramhamic religions, nearly 2/3s of the population of Earth. It'd make sense that Yhwh is THE God and his four lieutenants are, therefore, the four most powerful creatures in existence if faith is, indeed, what gives gods their power.

    Or we can just say that Supernatural is a modern American Gothic show that takes place primarily in Middle America, so therefore, the Abrahamic faiths (Specifically, Christianity) are the primary religions.

    Lynx on
  • ArkasArkas Registered User
    edited April 2010
    Apparently there's a petition to It's a longshot, but I for one would be psyched if it actually worked.


    In other news, I was thinking about the season 6 premise. I believe someone said in the last thread that the overarching plot would be 'finding someone.'

    Logically, if you're finding someone, then they aren't around. This would mean it would be pretty sucky if the person to be found was Castiel or Bobby, because they are awesome and should be on the show as often as possible.

    However, consider this: What if the person they're finding is their father? I know, I know, he's in heaven... but they have said no one can find him there. John Winchester was stubborn enough to tear his way out of hell, I would buy it if he couldn't sit still and be dead in heaven for long. More importantly, it would give way to an awesome JDM cameo by the season 6 finale, which would be fantastic. And way cooler than a series regular being MIA.

    Plus, it'd be all symmetrical and whatnot.

    Arkas on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I don't think "belief = power" has been established in Supernatural. As common as it is in fantasy books.

    Remember the Christmas Pagan Gods? They pretty much said they became weaker as fewer people believed in them.

    That's those gods, I doubt thats universal, THE God has quite clearly been significantly more powerful than anything else for...ever, Lucifer is uber powerful without belief and after having been locked away for a long time and God created him therefore God must be more powerful. Plus all the higher ups seem to be able to literally warp time, space and reality.
    In terms of whether the Judeo-Christian God has always been the most powerful, all we have is the word of his angels and the like to confirm that. Not a terribly objective source.

    And, a shit-ton of people do believe in Lucifer- pretty much every Christian in the world believes in his existence. If we're going with belief=power, then I can buy Lucifer being able to take on Kali, since there are more Christians than Hindus. But, she had enough power to take a real shot at him, and to survive the confrontation. The other pagan gods are much weaker, since very few people believe in their existence anymore (other than Ganesh, I guess).

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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Its not belief=power, who believes in Castiel? ANd the other gods could've just taken out the angels and God before he had many believers to subvert them. Hes very obviously just ridiculously powerful.

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  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Its not belief=power, who believes in Castiel? ANd the other gods could've just taken out the angels and God before he had many believers to subvert them. Hes very obviously just ridiculously powerful.
    Castiel is an angel, part of the whole "pantheon," if you will, of Christianity. He draws his power from the shared belief in the Abrahamaic religion held by billions of people. Those people believe that Angels are powerful, so he is. But, his power-level is less than Archangels, since billions of people believe in that power hierarchy.

    Maybe Yahweh started off as a local god in the middle east, but as he gathered followers, his power grew. Through accidents of history, he ended up as the top god on the planet.

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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    Eh, in the alternate future the Angels abandoned humanity and took their power with them, making Castiel mortal. So they obviously aren't very concerned about requiring humanity for power.

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  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Hmm, I wonder if Shiva/top gods in other religions will turn up, as Shiva is way more poweful than Kali afaik , assuming that they're going down the 'other gods are real and they're pissed' route.

    Tlex on
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Tlex wrote: »
    Hmm, I wonder if Shiva/top gods in other religions will turn up, as Shiva is way more poweful than Kali afaik , assuming that they're going down the 'other gods are real and they're pissed' route.

    I doubt it, since that would center the show more around Lucifer encountering difficulties in his plan rather than the boys themselves causing difficulties or trying to come to terms with the Apocalypse.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Hmm, I wonder if Shiva/top gods in other religions will turn up, as Shiva is way more poweful than Kali afaik , assuming that they're going down the 'other gods are real and they're pissed' route.

    Shiva is not more violently capable than Kali. Indeed, the only way he could defeat her in the mythology is in a dance-off (I'm serious). It is also worth noting that in some traditions kali is an aspect of Shiva, so the question is a little moot.

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  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    From the way Lucifer made it sound was God and the Angels just kind of showed up out of the ether and swept through taking it all for themselves.

    As if all the Pagan Gods where Earth-bound having their own slice of the populus that worshiped them in their own little area.

    Then these celestial non-earthbounds showed up on the Scene.

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  • TlexTlex Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I just assumed that because Shiva was part of the tri..trium...whatever, Shiva would be more powerful :? Guess not.

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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Frankly, I liked the episode, but I was not a huge fan of how quickly the other gods fell. I mean, I get it, and I fully subscribe to the power bestowed by the number of worshipers things... but still, this show didn't need any more evidence of its male eurocentric dominance... killing all the women on the show and then all the non-christian gods feels just a little too on the nose at this point.

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  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sentry wrote: »
    Frankly, I liked the episode, but I was not a huge fan of how quickly the other gods fell. I mean, I get it, and I fully subscribe to the power bestowed by the number of worshipers things... but still, this show didn't need any more evidence of its male eurocentric dominance... killing all the women on the show and then all the non-christian gods feels just a little too on the nose at this point.

    Eh, considering how rabid some of the female fan base gets whenever one of the boys shows even the slightest interest in a woman, not really surprising they'd write out most of the women.

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  • DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS
    edited April 2010
    It makes Deans going to that random women even more awkward since Jo seems more suitable for him and his lifestyle.

    And ya know, shes spent actual time with her

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  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Sentry wrote: »
    Frankly, I liked the episode, but I was not a huge fan of how quickly the other gods fell. I mean, I get it, and I fully subscribe to the power bestowed by the number of worshipers things... but still, this show didn't need any more evidence of its male eurocentric dominance... killing all the women on the show and then all the non-christian gods feels just a little too on the nose at this point.

    To be fair, they kill pretty much anything that isn't human. They have been killing "pagan" gods since season 1. It's just that this episode's pagan gods were actually well know. They've also killed demons and angels, and, at this point, I'm pretty sure Dean would try to kill "God" if he got the chance.

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