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[Planescape: Torment] What can change the nature of a man?
Oh of course. Still though, the LP is worth a look even for people who've played it before. It's really quite well narrated and...I'm not sure what the word for it is. He does a very good job of connecting events plausibly.
So, I've had a copy of the 2 disk edition of this in my collection for a couple years now and I've never actually played it. I've just installed all the nifty update-a-majigs, and I'm just about to rectify this grievous error...
For new people: It's important to realize that Wisdom and Intelligence are the most important stats. You should never need more than about a 16 Intelligence, if you properly utilize tattoos when necessary. Wisdom you want to pump as much as possible. Charisma is also nice to have fairly high. Once Wisdom is jacked, THEN you worry about Strength and whatnot.
What do you need to get the best ending, like 25 Wisdom?
Something like that, but getting high stats is pretty trivial if you just
Hang on to the Bronze Sphere.
You get several million experience points for that, enough for level 33 or so. If you can't get high physical AND mental stats with that you officially suck
So I just worry about getting Wisdom and Intelligence just high enough for most standard play uses, then worry about STR/DEX. The result is a dialogue machine that can also do all fights pretty easily!
There are people that haven't played the game before, Fiaryn. Telling everyone how to use their stat points most efficiently and giving the ceiling for one of the stat requirements takes some of the mystery, and the fun, out of actually playing the game.
Let people put their stats where they want to, and figure out how it changes the game. It will be magical when they find out "Wow, this is what higher Int/Wis/Dex/Cha does?"
When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
There are people that haven't played the game before, Fiaryn. Telling everyone how to use their stat points most efficiently and giving the ceiling for one of the stat requirements takes some of the mystery, and the fun, out of actually playing the game.
Let people put their stats where they want to, and figure out how it changes the game. It will be magical when they find out "Wow, this is what higher Int/Wis/Dex/Cha does?"
DO YOU HATE MAGIC?
If finding out 19 Intelligence is the most that can possibly be relevant bothers you...I can't pretend to care about this.
Also: Dexterity is the evil stat. If you want to be an evil douchebag, a lot of the evillest options in the game require Dex! Be warned, Evil Nameless One is pretty soul crushingly depressing stuff. In the LP I linked on the last page SCB occasionally does an intermission where he shows what Evil Nameless One can be like. It's horrible.
If finding out 19 Intelligence is the most that can possibly be relevant bothers you...I can't pretend to care about this.
It was actually more along the lines of telling people "Oh, so 19 is the amount I have to shoot for." Obviously it's up to the player how to use this information, but when you're outright told that you can pass every Intelligence check with a 19, there goes the wonder of finding out how high you want that particular stat.
Hell, I didn't even know that 19 was the highest that you received any benefit from Intelligence, but since I don't mind having flawed characters, it's not going to stop me from playing how I want to. If I have a Nameless One with high intelligence, he's going to have high intelligence regardless of how high it needs to be at a minimum to get every last line of dialogue in the game.
About a month and a half ago I got the itch to read a book. I've got quite a few lined up in my to-read list... While considering which one to have a go at, I came stumbled upon some YouTube video about Torment, and I though to myself: "Fuck books! It is time you became a man, Lars! This will be the summer that you finish Planescape: Torment!" And so I went and dug out the ol' disks from underneath about half a meter of dust.
My original plan was to wait until it got on GoG, but you know... They've had enough time.
Blasts were had. Minds were blown.
Anyone who claims this game hasn't held up well is a silly, silly goose. True, I also played it when it was new (as you might have gathered from me having it lying about), but I didn't even get halfway through at that attempt, and I didn't remember much of it anyway. True, the UI is clunky and generally not very nice - and I've always loathed the infinity engine... But the writing is so goddamn solid that everything else is soon forgotten.
At one point it even had such and impact that I had to shut down the game, go outside and sit in the grass while just staring dumbly into nothingness for a while.
Fall-From-Grace's comment after Deionarra's sensory stone.
What can change the nature of a man?
Nothing.
If you change the nature of a man, you change what he is. In other words you can't change the nature of a man without thereby turning him into something not-man.
It's man's nature to die. Nameless One lost his mortality, and it's said several places in the game that he is not wholly a man anymore.
I think you misunderstood what was being said there Lars
As Ravel says...
When she asked the question "What can change the nature of a man?" the reason she killed all those people is they tried to give her her answer, not their own. What can we infer from this? Anything. Anything can change the nature of a man, if said man believes it can. These are the planes. Belief can cause a man to wink out of existence before your very eyes.
There is no one answer, only yours. The question isn't about biological nature (IE, mortality) it's about personality and behavior, which in the case of the Nameless One warps drastically from life to life.
AlectharAlan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered Userregular
edited June 2010
I really need to dig through the shit in my attic and find my copy of this game. I bought an new boxed copy like 3 yrs after release in the bargain bin, and got through part of it before my old 'puter exploded. Soooo good.
There are people that haven't played the game before, Fiaryn. Telling everyone how to use their stat points most efficiently and giving the ceiling for one of the stat requirements takes some of the mystery, and the fun, out of actually playing the game.
Let people put their stats where they want to, and figure out how it changes the game. It will be magical when they find out "Wow, this is what higher Int/Wis/Dex/Cha does?"
DO YOU HATE MAGIC?
If finding out 19 Intelligence is the most that can possibly be relevant bothers you...I can't pretend to care about this.
Also: Dexterity is the evil stat. If you want to be an evil douchebag, a lot of the evillest options in the game require Dex! Be warned, Evil Nameless One is pretty soul crushingly depressing stuff. In the LP I linked on the last page SCB occasionally does an intermission where he shows what Evil Nameless One can be like. It's horrible.
Moral Event Horizon Entry on TVTropes
◦Your first incarnation did not merely cross the horizon. He ran past it screaming, scissors in hand, baby entrails dripping from his open mouth, dead puppy wrapped uncomfortably around his genitalia, and killing everything in his in his path in such horrible ways that they envy the dead puppy. The first incarnation was not a nice person. A thousand lifetimes of saintly penance would not be enough to make up for your first incarnation.
Do not read the above if you dont want to be spoilled, but holy hell that is hilariously mega-evil.
There are people that haven't played the game before, Fiaryn. Telling everyone how to use their stat points most efficiently and giving the ceiling for one of the stat requirements takes some of the mystery, and the fun, out of actually playing the game.
Let people put their stats where they want to, and figure out how it changes the game. It will be magical when they find out "Wow, this is what higher Int/Wis/Dex/Cha does?"
DO YOU HATE MAGIC?
If finding out 19 Intelligence is the most that can possibly be relevant bothers you...I can't pretend to care about this.
Also: Dexterity is the evil stat. If you want to be an evil douchebag, a lot of the evillest options in the game require Dex! Be warned, Evil Nameless One is pretty soul crushingly depressing stuff. In the LP I linked on the last page SCB occasionally does an intermission where he shows what Evil Nameless One can be like. It's horrible.
Moral Event Horizon Entry on TVTropes
◦Your first incarnation did not merely cross the horizon. He ran past it screaming, scissors in hand, baby entrails dripping from his open mouth, dead puppy wrapped uncomfortably around his genitalia, and killing everything in his in his path in such horrible ways that they envy the dead puppy. The first incarnation was not a nice person. A thousand lifetimes of saintly penance would not be enough to make up for your first incarnation.
Do not read the above if you dont want to be spoilled, but holy hell that is hilariously mega-evil.
Well you never find out what your original incarnation did right? Just that it was really really really terrible. A lot of the subsequent incarnations did really horrible stuff as well, but I believe that the original incarnation is a mystery
Also "Endure. In enduring, grow strong."
Edit: Also I think this might be my favourite quote from the game and why I love Nodrom
Nordom: Plane: Negative Material. Location: Fortress of Regrets.
The Transcendent One: (entering scene) AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
The Transcendent One: SUBMIT.
Nordom: You intend to harm one who has aided Nordom at cost to himself. Nordom will attempt to stop you. Prospect of success: slight.
The Transcendent One: (casting) THE BODY IS A SHELL. INTENSE PRESSURE MAY FRACTURE IT. SHALL I CONTINUE?
Nordom: You intend to harm him. Nordom will stop you.
The Transcendent One: (casting) SO BE IT.
When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
I see.
No, you do NOT see. Pray you NEVER will.
Vhailor was awesome.
(endgame spoilers)
He becomes like a GOD in the last battle against TTO if you do the right dialog options.
Man, I just remembered one of my favorite funny conversations from Torment (then had to look up the exact wording since it has been like 8 years since I've played it last):
Nordom: "Attention: Morte. I have a question. Do you have a destiny? A purpose?"
Morte: "Is Annah still wearing clothes?"
Nordom: "Affirmatory."
Morte: "Then the answer is yes."
chrono_traveller on
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I think you misunderstood what was being said there Lars
As Ravel says...
When she asked the question "What can change the nature of a man?" the reason she killed all those people is they tried to give her her answer, not their own. What can we infer from this? Anything. Anything can change the nature of a man, if said man believes it can. These are the planes. Belief can cause a man to wink out of existence before your very eyes.
There is no one answer, only yours. The question isn't about biological nature (IE, mortality) it's about personality and behavior, which in the case of the Nameless One warps drastically from life to life.
Oh, I got what Ravel wanted. However:
Taking Nameless One's original incarnation as an example, are you saying that he changed his nature when he decided he needed to find a way to atone for his sins after a lifetime of evil? I say that's too narrow an understanding of the term "a man's nature", but I agree that in your context almost anything could trigger change, depending on the man. However, I put it to you that it's a part of man's nature to be able to change from evil to good.
The fact that Ravel wants to hear your answer, doesn't mean the riddle isn't unanswerable. (Sorry for the tripple negative, but it's a tangled mess of paradoxes we're dealing with here.) In fact, what I got from Ravel was that she wanted to know (and accepts) Nameless One's answer simply because he is the Nameless One (and even then not because he is immortal or an amnesiac or has been through all these unique experiences or whatever - simply because he is he, whoever that might be after all those years) , and that she doesn't just want for any man to give her his answer.
And I'm not seeing it as a biological issue. How could you, with such a wonderfully metaphysical theme? Because Nameless One is immortal, his soul isn't able to go were it's supposed to, and it does fucked up things to his personality. When he regains his mortality, however, his lifetimes of messing around hasn't changed anything. His soul is still dragged straight to the lower planes, and he runs mindlessly to join in the Blood War. In my interpretation, he becomes a man again, and man's nature comes with it.
"What can change the nature of a man?" isn't simply a riddle that some hag wants "answered", but an underlying theme of the entire narrative. I you, in that context, have concluded that "the answer is that the answer can be anything" then that's a fair assessment, and I would very much like to read your arguments in more depth.
Edit: Also I think this might be my favourite quote from the game and why I love Nodrom
Nordom: Plane: Negative Material. Location: Fortress of Regrets.
The Transcendent One: (entering scene) AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
The Transcendent One: SUBMIT.
Nordom: You intend to harm one who has aided Nordom at cost to himself. Nordom will attempt to stop you. Prospect of success: slight.
The Transcendent One: (casting) THE BODY IS A SHELL. INTENSE PRESSURE MAY FRACTURE IT. SHALL I CONTINUE?
Nordom: You intend to harm him. Nordom will stop you.
The Transcendent One: (casting) SO BE IT.
My favorite Nordom quote was from the random party-banter. I can't be bothered to search for a precise transcription, but it went something like:
Nordrom: "Attention: Morte. Did you know that I have six sides?"
Morte: "Yeeeahh... Why don't you discuss that with the chief, eh?"
Nordrom: "Attention: Morte. Did you know that I have six sides?"
Morte: "Yeeeahh... Why don't you discuss that with the chief, eh?"
So delightfully random...
Morte: Hey Nordom, knock-knock.
Nordom: Why do you persist in addressing me as a door?
Morte: It's a joke, you stupid polygon! You're supposed to answer "Who's there?"
Nordom: I know who is there. It is you. Why would I ask a question when I already know the answer?
Morte: Just forget it.
subedii on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
Nordrom: "Attention: Morte. Did you know that I have six sides?"
Morte: "Yeeeahh... Why don't you discuss that with the chief, eh?"
So delightfully random...
Morte: Hey Nordom, knock-knock.
Nordom: Why do you persist in addressing me as a door?
Morte: It's a joke, you stupid polygon! You're supposed to answer "Who's there?"
Nordom: I know who is there. It is you. Why would I ask a question when I already know the answer?
Morte: Just forget it.
When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
Justice is not blind, for I am her eyes.
Really, a lot of the dialogue in this game is quotable. Most games struggle to have even a few memorable characters. Heck, Fallout 3 is an RPG and I'm not sure I can remember the name of a single character. But Planescape? Man, so many memorable characters.
TNO: "Who do you make these weapons for?"
Coaxmetal: I FORGE THEM FOR THE SAKE OF ENTROPY. THEY ARE PAIN SEEKING EXPRESSION.
TNO: "What does entropy need weapons for?"
Coaxmetal: BEYOND THIS TOWER, ORDER RALLIES ITS LEGIONS. THE MULTIVERSE HEALS ITS WOUNDS. IN TIME, ITS STRENGTH MAY EQUAL ENTROPY.
TNO: "The multiverse is your enemy? Why?"
Coaxmetal: THE MULTIVERSE BREATHES. IT GROWS. IT STAGNATES. IT FORGES ITS CHAINS AROUND THE PLAINS LINK BY LINK. IN TIME, EVEN ENTROPY MAY BE CHAINED.
TNO: "And you're opposed to chaining entropy?"
Coaxmetal: WHEN A THING SEALS ITSELF AGAINST ITS OWN DESTRUCTION, IT MERELY DIES A DIFFERENT DEATH.
TNO: "So you're saying immortality is just a different kind of death?"
Coaxmetal: IMMORTALITY IS ONLY A WORD. ALL THAT EXISTS CAN DIE. EVERY LIVING THING HAS A WEAPON AGAINST WHICH IT HAS NO DEFENSE. TIME. DISEASE. IRON. GUILT.
subedii on
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
One of my favorite bits was when you find the first "piece" of your old journal
inscribed on the walls of your tomb
, and you find a transcription of what is written on your back, just with four extra words...
Don't trust the skull.
That's when I realized that this game was going to be something special.
Hedgethorn on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
Morte's "origin" is basically amazing.
INeedNoSalt on
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Although it is heartbreaking to bring him back to his origin, especially if you're playing as an evil character. I don't know how anyone could actually bring themselves to
Heck, Fallout 3 is an RPG and I'm not sure I can remember the name of a single character.
Moira Brown, with her borderline Manic-Depression and obsession on making everything better with MECHANICS! One of her quotes I really dig goes something like this
"The world was like a stained-glass window that got broken. Everyone's running around trying to put it back together exactly as it was, but I think we can just put it back together in a way that's more beautiful then the original."
I may be forgetting what it was precisely, it has been like a year and a half since the last time I heard that particular line, but I think I got the gist of what she was saying.
Heck, Fallout 3 is an RPG and I'm not sure I can remember the name of a single character.
Moira Brown, with her borderline Manic-Depression and obsession on making everything better with MECHANICS! One of her quotes I really dig goes something like this
"The world was like a stained-glass window that got broken. Everyone's running around trying to put it back together exactly as it was, but I think we can just put it back together in a way that's more beautiful then the original."
I may be forgetting what it was precisely, it has been like a year and a half since the last time I heard that particular line, but I think I got the gist of what she was saying.
You did NOT just quote a line of dialogue from a goddamn BETHESDA RPG in a Planescape: Torment thread.
Can't you trust him? TNO was the dick for always planning on shoving him back in.
Because one of your incarnations figured out Morte knew who he was the whole time, and left a message to you so you wouldn't make the same mistake and think Morte didn't know more than he was letting on. It's not that Morte is planning to backstab you, it's that Morte is lying to you the whole time about knowing you.
Heck, Fallout 3 is an RPG and I'm not sure I can remember the name of a single character.
Moira Brown, with her borderline Manic-Depression and obsession on making everything better with MECHANICS! One of her quotes I really dig goes something like this
"The world was like a stained-glass window that got broken. Everyone's running around trying to put it back together exactly as it was, but I think we can just put it back together in a way that's more beautiful then the original."
I may be forgetting what it was precisely, it has been like a year and a half since the last time I heard that particular line, but I think I got the gist of what she was saying.
You did NOT just quote a line of dialogue from a goddamn BETHESDA RPG in a Planescape: Torment thread.
The thing about Ravel's question, is it's a trick question. There is no right answer except for what *you* truly believe the answer to be. If you try to guess what she wants to hear, she'll do awful things to you.
TNO was the first being to answer honestly.
ihopius on
0
pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
edited June 2010
I never played this. I doubt I will ever get the chance to. That makes me just a little sad.
pyromaniac221 on
psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
0
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Can't you trust him? TNO was the dick for always planning on shoving him back in.
Morte
lied to the Practical One (your former incarnation that enslaved Daa'kon, tutored--and tortured--Ignus, and got Deionarra killed). Morte told TPO that if he freed Morte from the Pillar of Skulls, Morte would show him a way out of the Outlands. But Morte didn't really know a way out, he was lying to be free of the Pillar. By the time TPO found this out, it was too late to just put Morte back.
Later, Morte reveals that he's been following your incarnations around ever since as a sort of penance.
Can't you trust him? TNO was the dick for always planning on shoving him back in.
Basically because:
The Practical Incarnation removed him from the pillar because Morte promised that he could tell him the information he needed. Except that when he was removed from the pillar, he lost all that knowledge.
That flashback sequence was just text but it had me cringing.
And in a sense it was right, Morte did keep things from you. He didn't tell you he knew you from before, or anything about your past life or lives and why he was still there. In theory he could have told TNO not only everything that was going on, but also how to get to the Transcendent One, right from the start.
Of course, the message also told him that he'd have a journal (or journals) with him which would explain everything anyway, but that was destroyed by the paranoid incarnation.
In general though I can't really blame Morte for any of that. He never knew who TNO was going to be next, and yet he still stuck around out of some sense of trying to put things right again.
EDIT:
"One time you awoke obsessed with the idea that *I* was your skull and chased me around the Spire trying to shatter and devour me. Luckily, you were crushed by a passing cart in the street."
Posts
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
with tattoos buffing my Charisma I am about at 17 now.
I am a dialog machine
The highest dialogue requirement is 19. Just switch into Mage mode and slap on both Int boosting tattoos. Fuckblammo, you got it.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Thanks for posting the link, Fiaryn.
Something like that, but getting high stats is pretty trivial if you just
You get several million experience points for that, enough for level 33 or so. If you can't get high physical AND mental stats with that you officially suck
So I just worry about getting Wisdom and Intelligence just high enough for most standard play uses, then worry about STR/DEX. The result is a dialogue machine that can also do all fights pretty easily!
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Let people put their stats where they want to, and figure out how it changes the game. It will be magical when they find out "Wow, this is what higher Int/Wis/Dex/Cha does?"
DO YOU HATE MAGIC?
I see.
If finding out 19 Intelligence is the most that can possibly be relevant bothers you...I can't pretend to care about this.
Also: Dexterity is the evil stat. If you want to be an evil douchebag, a lot of the evillest options in the game require Dex! Be warned, Evil Nameless One is pretty soul crushingly depressing stuff. In the LP I linked on the last page SCB occasionally does an intermission where he shows what Evil Nameless One can be like. It's horrible.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
It was actually more along the lines of telling people "Oh, so 19 is the amount I have to shoot for." Obviously it's up to the player how to use this information, but when you're outright told that you can pass every Intelligence check with a 19, there goes the wonder of finding out how high you want that particular stat.
Hell, I didn't even know that 19 was the highest that you received any benefit from Intelligence, but since I don't mind having flawed characters, it's not going to stop me from playing how I want to. If I have a Nameless One with high intelligence, he's going to have high intelligence regardless of how high it needs to be at a minimum to get every last line of dialogue in the game.
My original plan was to wait until it got on GoG, but you know... They've had enough time.
Blasts were had. Minds were blown.
Anyone who claims this game hasn't held up well is a silly, silly goose. True, I also played it when it was new (as you might have gathered from me having it lying about), but I didn't even get halfway through at that attempt, and I didn't remember much of it anyway. True, the UI is clunky and generally not very nice - and I've always loathed the infinity engine... But the writing is so goddamn solid that everything else is soon forgotten.
At one point it even had such and impact that I had to shut down the game, go outside and sit in the grass while just staring dumbly into nothingness for a while.
What can change the nature of a man?
If you change the nature of a man, you change what he is. In other words you can't change the nature of a man without thereby turning him into something not-man.
It's man's nature to die. Nameless One lost his mortality, and it's said several places in the game that he is not wholly a man anymore.
As Ravel says...
There is no one answer, only yours. The question isn't about biological nature (IE, mortality) it's about personality and behavior, which in the case of the Nameless One warps drastically from life to life.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Battle.net
Moral Event Horizon Entry on TVTropes
Do not read the above if you dont want to be spoilled, but holy hell that is hilariously mega-evil.
Edit: Also I think this might be my favourite quote from the game and why I love Nodrom
The Transcendent One: (entering scene) AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
The Transcendent One: SUBMIT.
Nordom: You intend to harm one who has aided Nordom at cost to himself. Nordom will attempt to stop you. Prospect of success: slight.
The Transcendent One: (casting) THE BODY IS A SHELL. INTENSE PRESSURE MAY FRACTURE IT. SHALL I CONTINUE?
Nordom: You intend to harm him. Nordom will stop you.
The Transcendent One: (casting) SO BE IT.
No, you do NOT see. Pray you NEVER will.
Vhailor was awesome.
(endgame spoilers)
Nordom: "Attention: Morte. I have a question. Do you have a destiny? A purpose?"
Morte: "Is Annah still wearing clothes?"
Nordom: "Affirmatory."
Morte: "Then the answer is yes."
Oh, I got what Ravel wanted. However:
The fact that Ravel wants to hear your answer, doesn't mean the riddle isn't unanswerable. (Sorry for the tripple negative, but it's a tangled mess of paradoxes we're dealing with here.) In fact, what I got from Ravel was that she wanted to know (and accepts) Nameless One's answer simply because he is the Nameless One (and even then not because he is immortal or an amnesiac or has been through all these unique experiences or whatever - simply because he is he, whoever that might be after all those years) , and that she doesn't just want for any man to give her his answer.
And I'm not seeing it as a biological issue. How could you, with such a wonderfully metaphysical theme? Because Nameless One is immortal, his soul isn't able to go were it's supposed to, and it does fucked up things to his personality. When he regains his mortality, however, his lifetimes of messing around hasn't changed anything. His soul is still dragged straight to the lower planes, and he runs mindlessly to join in the Blood War. In my interpretation, he becomes a man again, and man's nature comes with it.
"What can change the nature of a man?" isn't simply a riddle that some hag wants "answered", but an underlying theme of the entire narrative. I you, in that context, have concluded that "the answer is that the answer can be anything" then that's a fair assessment, and I would very much like to read your arguments in more depth.
My favorite Nordom quote was from the random party-banter. I can't be bothered to search for a precise transcription, but it went something like:
Morte: "Yeeeahh... Why don't you discuss that with the chief, eh?"
So delightfully random...
Then looking in my inventory later and seeing my bits, and their descriptions
Morte: Hey Nordom, knock-knock.
Nordom: Why do you persist in addressing me as a door?
Morte: It's a joke, you stupid polygon! You're supposed to answer "Who's there?"
Nordom: I know who is there. It is you. Why would I ask a question when I already know the answer?
Morte: Just forget it.
Justice is not blind, for I am her eyes.
That's just precious.
Really, a lot of the dialogue in this game is quotable. Most games struggle to have even a few memorable characters. Heck, Fallout 3 is an RPG and I'm not sure I can remember the name of a single character. But Planescape? Man, so many memorable characters.
TNO: "Who do you make these weapons for?"
Coaxmetal: I FORGE THEM FOR THE SAKE OF ENTROPY. THEY ARE PAIN SEEKING EXPRESSION.
TNO: "What does entropy need weapons for?"
Coaxmetal: BEYOND THIS TOWER, ORDER RALLIES ITS LEGIONS. THE MULTIVERSE HEALS ITS WOUNDS. IN TIME, ITS STRENGTH MAY EQUAL ENTROPY.
TNO: "The multiverse is your enemy? Why?"
Coaxmetal: THE MULTIVERSE BREATHES. IT GROWS. IT STAGNATES. IT FORGES ITS CHAINS AROUND THE PLAINS LINK BY LINK. IN TIME, EVEN ENTROPY MAY BE CHAINED.
TNO: "And you're opposed to chaining entropy?"
Coaxmetal: WHEN A THING SEALS ITSELF AGAINST ITS OWN DESTRUCTION, IT MERELY DIES A DIFFERENT DEATH.
TNO: "So you're saying immortality is just a different kind of death?"
Coaxmetal: IMMORTALITY IS ONLY A WORD. ALL THAT EXISTS CAN DIE. EVERY LIVING THING HAS A WEAPON AGAINST WHICH IT HAS NO DEFENSE. TIME. DISEASE. IRON. GUILT.
That's when I realized that this game was going to be something special.
Although it is heartbreaking to bring him back to his origin, especially if you're playing as an evil character. I don't know how anyone could actually bring themselves to
Moira Brown, with her borderline Manic-Depression and obsession on making everything better with MECHANICS! One of her quotes I really dig goes something like this
"The world was like a stained-glass window that got broken. Everyone's running around trying to put it back together exactly as it was, but I think we can just put it back together in a way that's more beautiful then the original."
I may be forgetting what it was precisely, it has been like a year and a half since the last time I heard that particular line, but I think I got the gist of what she was saying.
You did NOT just quote a line of dialogue from a goddamn BETHESDA RPG in a Planescape: Torment thread.
I believe I JUST DID.
The thing about Ravel's question, is it's a trick question. There is no right answer except for what *you* truly believe the answer to be. If you try to guess what she wants to hear, she'll do awful things to you.
TNO was the first being to answer honestly.
Morte
Later, Morte reveals that he's been following your incarnations around ever since as a sort of penance.
Basically because:
That flashback sequence was just text but it had me cringing.
And in a sense it was right, Morte did keep things from you. He didn't tell you he knew you from before, or anything about your past life or lives and why he was still there. In theory he could have told TNO not only everything that was going on, but also how to get to the Transcendent One, right from the start.
Of course, the message also told him that he'd have a journal (or journals) with him which would explain everything anyway, but that was destroyed by the paranoid incarnation.
In general though I can't really blame Morte for any of that. He never knew who TNO was going to be next, and yet he still stuck around out of some sense of trying to put things right again.
EDIT:
"One time you awoke obsessed with the idea that *I* was your skull and chased me around the Spire trying to shatter and devour me. Luckily, you were crushed by a passing cart in the street."