Alpha Protocol: Apparently now an Obsidian gossip thread

Archsorcerer

CaptainNemo wrote: »

AnteCantelope wrote: »

joshofalltrades wrote: »

My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

That's ridiculous.

Spies have tools. Use them when you need them.

Quiotu

C2B wrote: »

I would argue an exception needs to be added. 'No human being likes this... unless it's Fallout'. Unless you somehow argue making hit percentages visible makes it all better.

CaptainNemo

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

Buttcleft

ppffffffftthhhhp

Guns

CaptainNemo

Don't get me wrong, I fucking love the martial arts tree. Running knees and throat chops are my jam. I kinda think if the game had leaned more towards Sleeping Dogs and had mostly melee combat with very little gunplay it would've been better received. Because man, that melee feels nice.

AspectVoid

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

That's because it was designed around the exact same system Mass Effect 1 was using. I still say that a lot of the negativity toward Alpha Protocol on release was caused by the fact that Sega delayed it until after Mass Effect 2 was released, and ME2 changed the expectations of fans for gunplay in RPGs.

C2B

AspectVoid wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

That's because it was designed around the exact same system Mass Effect 1 was using. I still say that a lot of the negativity toward Alpha Protocol on release was caused by the fact that Sega delayed it until after Mass Effect 2 was released, and ME2 changed the expectations of fans for gunplay in RPGs.

Yeah, it probably would have done better.

That doesn't mean that suddenly makes the mechanic and how Alpha Protocol utilized it.

@Everyone Why exactly are you defending the mechanic. Especially under the assumption it was intended as such?

It wasn't. It was mandated. Obsidian itself critizized their work afterwards. It's a perfectly valid complaint.

Quiotu

C2B wrote: »

AspectVoid wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

That's because it was designed around the exact same system Mass Effect 1 was using. I still say that a lot of the negativity toward Alpha Protocol on release was caused by the fact that Sega delayed it until after Mass Effect 2 was released, and ME2 changed the expectations of fans for gunplay in RPGs.

Yeah, it probably would have done better.

That doesn't mean that suddenly makes the mechanic and as it worked in Alpha Protocol itself good.

@Everyone Why exactly are you defending the mechanic. Especially under the assumption it was intended as such?

It wasn't. It was mandated. Obsidian itself critizized their work afterwards.

I don't think any of us are white knighting the gun mechanics. We're having a laugh at people who played an RPG, labeled an RPG, made by RPG experts, and expected shooter mechanics.

C2B

Quiotu wrote: »

I would argue an exception needs to be added. 'No human being likes this... unless it's Fallout'. Unless you somehow argue making hit percentages visible makes it all better.

Yes. Or more to the point Fallout handled it waaaaaaaaaaay better. Especially in New Vegas where you had additionally Iron Sights.

Buttcleft

omgwtf battelfeld haz bettar shoot guns!

AspectVoid

Well, I can only speak for myself, but the mechanic doesn't bother me one bit. I've been playing RPGs that use this mechanic since 1990 or so. The fact that you swap out a sword for a gun doesn't change the fact that its an RPG with RPG hit and miss mechanics to me. So, yeah, I'm simply perfectly cool with it and enjoy the style.

Bolthorn

All the talking and arguing are just tempting me to reinstall this and play through it again. Damnit everyone.

Edit: yep, thanks to Steam for allowing me to remotely install games. It should be done by the time I get home.

CaptainNemo

Do it. Professional Mike is pretty great.

Quiotu wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

AspectVoid wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

That's because it was designed around the exact same system Mass Effect 1 was using. I still say that a lot of the negativity toward Alpha Protocol on release was caused by the fact that Sega delayed it until after Mass Effect 2 was released, and ME2 changed the expectations of fans for gunplay in RPGs.

Yeah, it probably would have done better.

That doesn't mean that suddenly makes the mechanic and as it worked in Alpha Protocol itself good.

@Everyone Why exactly are you defending the mechanic. Especially under the assumption it was intended as such?

It wasn't. It was mandated. Obsidian itself critizized their work afterwards.

I don't think any of us are white knighting the gun mechanics. We're having a laugh at people who played an RPG, labeled an RPG, made by RPG experts, and expected shooter mechanics.

Yeah, weird me thinking a game with guns, that focuses on guns as the primary combat mechanic, that has a plethora of gun variety and gun upgrades, would have mechanics involving shooting guns.

Hardtarget

I don't get the complaints about the gun system. It's like, did you not use pistols? You literally hide behind cover and can BLIND SHOT head shots for over half the game once you put a few skill points into it. How is that not a amazing gun system, it's great and fun.

*whispers to HT*

oh.. huh. there are other guns in the game? well that's dumb.

HT's guide to Alpha Protocol:
Pistols
Stealth
Throat Punches
Repeat as necessary

Max fun. I love this game.

C2B

Quiotu wrote: »

C2B wrote: »

AspectVoid wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

Oh, sorry, forgot that wanting to actually be able to hit something with a gun makes me a Gears of War fan.

what in the fuck does that even mean?

In a spy story, I can buy invisiblity. Bond's had invisible cars, cloaking camo is a speculative fiction main stay. But the best operative in the United States being a total shit shot really strains my suspension of disbelief. The gunplay in Alpha Protocol isn't good. I don't think anyone has ever praised the gunplay. It's honestly Mass Effect 1 levels of bad. Hell, Obsidian even went on to make a shooter with way, way, way better shooting.

That's because it was designed around the exact same system Mass Effect 1 was using. I still say that a lot of the negativity toward Alpha Protocol on release was caused by the fact that Sega delayed it until after Mass Effect 2 was released, and ME2 changed the expectations of fans for gunplay in RPGs.

Yeah, it probably would have done better.

That doesn't mean that suddenly makes the mechanic and as it worked in Alpha Protocol itself good.

@Everyone Why exactly are you defending the mechanic. Especially under the assumption it was intended as such?

It wasn't. It was mandated. Obsidian itself critizized their work afterwards.

I don't think any of us are white knighting the gun mechanics. We're having a laugh at people who played an RPG, labeled an RPG, made by RPG experts, and expected shooter mechanics.

No, but you definitly can expect good mechanics. Thats the point.

And the bolded part. Once again the shooting mechanics Alpha Protocol ended up with are the result of an extremly troubled development. Not an indication of what said experts actually would want to do. Theres other ways to introduce rpg mechanics into shooter hybrids aside from missing point blank.

jefe414

I have like 995/1000 gamerscore. I just can't bring myself to go for One With the Shadows.

Bolthorn

Yeah, I didn't have problems in my only (so far, seriously damnit you guys I have other games I need to play for the first time, not this one for a second time) play through. But, I did go stealth and pistols because if I can be sneaky and stealth in a game, I go that route. Probably why it took awhile for me to complete The Last of Us, but damnit, I had nearly full ammo for most of the game. Maybe I'll try shotgun Mike. Or full hand-to-hand combat Mike. Who knows. We'll see.

CaptainNemo

Hand to hand is really fun. You're basically a death machine blur of punches and kicks. Trouble is, this is basically worthless against most of the bosses, especially Russia's.

C2B

Yeah, hand to hand is basically speedrunning every level.

CaptainNemo

Stealth and hand to hand is just such a clean way to play. Feels very professional.

Buttcleft

Hand to Hand keeps your Orphans Created count low, too.

CaptainNemo

Buttcleft wrote: »

Hand to Hand keeps your Orphans Created count low, too.

Every good thing has a downside.

Spoit

AspectVoid wrote: »

CaptainNemo wrote: »

AnteCantelope wrote: »

joshofalltrades wrote: »

My first playthrough of this game was pistols/stealth, and I popped into the thread to gush and so many people were complaining about how difficult the game was. I did not understand.

It's difficult only because people refuse to play the game as it is, and try to play it as a shooter. And when they miss they learn nothing and try again.

If you don't want me to shoot people, why give me a gun? Don't mask this as playing the game wrong, in no way does a person who is among the best of the best, the most elite in his field, the spy of fucking spies, be able to miss every single shot at point blank.

That's ridiculous.

The "your playing it wrong" doesn't come up because you're using guns. Or, at least, I don't bring it up because of that. It normally comes up when people try to play it like a shooter. The underlying engine in Alpha Protocol is an RPG engine with random dice rolls, so playing it like a straight shooter isn't going to work very well, because you can have a long string of low rolls on that Dice Engine, and early in the game you don't have enough skill points in the gun skills to balance that out, so you will miss a lot.

If you don't like that, that's cool. I've got no problems with that. Hell, most people not liking that why Bioware dropped that idea in Mass Effect 2 and 3. I think, had Alpha Protocol survived as a franchise, we would have seen similar changes in the sequel.

The thing is, though, if you're going to play the game, you have to concede to the mechanics of the game, which in this case is "Random dice rolls can screw you over big time." Or you can say "This is no fun for me" and stop playing. That's cool, too.

Except, not really. The unique thing about AP is that if you just have the patience to wait a second for the aim to narrow, you can get laser-like accuracy, even using a gun with 0 accuracy and with no skill points. Whereas even real shooters still have aiming cones, with 'dice rolls'

Mild Confusion

You can hand to hand bosses, even Branko, but you should also invest into toughness too.

Fury a hellofa thing.

Buttcleft

Brayko is easy to hand to hand if

get someone to poison his cocaine

Archsorcerer

And jump off the stage from time to time to make him lose some breath.

Archsorcerer

Looks like that spy-fi game Chris got involved isn't gonna fly.

Archsorcerer

https://twitter.com/OverseerVault69/status/648645661269753856

4th option: "Mother"

cooljammer00

I feel like people have been talking about Alpha Protocol a lot more lately. And I keep seeing Archer Protocol thrown around, which while I don't particularly love Archer (Frisky Dingo was a better show) I would not mind another AP type game. Though having the Archer license would basically remove anything that people liked about Alpha Protocol, cause when's the last time Archer actually did spy work?