My mother was a victim of childhood sexual abuse

HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
edited August 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Before you ask, yes, I did get mod permission to post this.

My mother was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. From somewhere around the age of five, her stepfather raped her repeatedly until she finally moved out of the house at 18 and went off to college.

Somehow, despite contending with personal demons for the rest of her life, she was able to create for herself and the rest of my family a stable and fulfilling life. I owe her everything, and I am eternally grateful for the fact that none of her suicide attempts was successful.

She was the perfect mother: warm, attentive and caring. She did contend with a lot of personal demons, as it is impossible to live through something like that and not be haunted by it for the rest of your life. However, she never let this diminish her ability to be a good parent.

When I was little, she wrote a book about her experiences. It’s a memoir that is only fictional in the sense that the names of characters have been changed to protect the “innocent.” Every word of this book is true.

I first read it in high school. It blew me away; I knew her father was a monster, but I never knew the abuse was sexual, nor did I understand how severe it was. In all likelihood, she hadn’t told me up until that point because she wanted to protect me from the truth. Or, perhaps she was too ashamed, even though decades had passed. Who knows?

She died a couple of months ago. I came home to visit my family (I now live several states away from my childhood home) and, while sorting through her things, we came across several copies of her book. Thumbing through it, I realized that posting it online might help survivors who need help in figuring out how to navigate the aftereffects of such a traumatic experience, or for those who just want to be able to relate to someone. I also thought it might help people like me, who never had to experience such an awful thing, to better understand the sorts of horrific memories survivors deal with on a daily basis.

So, here it is:

http://hushlittlebabybook.wordpress.com/

It was her dream to have others read her words, to see her story exposed to the world. This is the closest I can come to fulfilling that dream for her. I hope you will all read at least one chapter of this and learn something from it.

I would also like to make this thread a space to talk about child abuse. If you are a survivor, feel free to post your own story, or to talk about some of the difficulties you’ve faced as you grow older and contend with the memories.

We can also discuss social issues surrounding abuse, and how it is so often condoned by society. I find it abhorrent that people actually seek to defend a pedophile like Roman Polanski, for example. The fact that so many people seek to understate the victim's innocence in her rape makes me sick. Worse yet, I think it gives us a pretty clear picture a grander social problem: that of victim blaming. I think people grasp desperately for ways to convince themselves that nothing bad happens to good people, and so this victim must have done something to deserve what happened to her.

People lie to themselves this way so they can sleep easier at night, knowing that they will never be victimized by some random asshole because the world is just and only bad people suffer. Unfortunately, this attitude brings about harm to victims who, after finally gathering the courage to talk about what happened to them, are often revictimized by people who are more concerned with maintaining their happy world views than helping victims of awful crimes.

I would also like to talk about my own attempts to understand the aftereffects of abuse. Since I was never abused (thank God), I can only ever hope to gain an elementary understanding of what it is like to experience abuse. I am interested in understanding my mother’s experiences because I don’t think I ever really understood the severity of said aftereffects while she was still alive.

I’ve been reading blogs like this one: http://reasonsyoushouldntfuckkids.wordpress.com/ to try and gain that better understanding.

As for the rest of you who were not abused but would like to better understand what abuse victims go through, what have you been reading to try and broaden your understanding? Do you have any blogs or books that you recommend?

HushLittleBaby on
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Posts

  • StarGuardedStarGuarded Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I read through the first two chapters or so and I'll probably check out the rest later. :^: pretty heavy reading. based off the OP you seem to have a good understanding of abuse psychology. I was emotionally abused and witnessed domestic violence for years and it took a very long time to even start to understand what I had gone through. it's very, very confusing, and the revictimization stuff is absolutely true in any kind of abuse because when you place severe scrutiny on people who are trying to figure out what happened to them and how to deal with it, you're throwing a wrench in there. it's damaging, and sexual abuse survivors face even more scrutiny than normal.

    StarGuarded on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I read through the first two chapters or so and I'll probably check out the rest later. :^: pretty heavy reading. based off the OP you seem to have a good understanding of abuse psychology. I was emotionally abused and witnessed domestic violence for years and it took a very long time to even start to understand what I had gone through. it's very, very confusing, and the revictimization stuff is absolutely true in any kind of abuse because when you place severe scrutiny on people who are trying to figure out what happened to them and how to deal with it, you're throwing a wrench in there. it's damaging, and sexual abuse survivors face even more scrutiny than normal.

    Oh yeah, the worst thing you can do is not believe someone when he/she claims to have been abused. It may seem unfair to the accused, but the damage you might do to a genuine victim by not believing him/her far outweighs the damage you might inflict upon someone who is falsely accused of being an abuser.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • AltaliciousAltalicious Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It may seem unfair to the accused, but the damage you might do to a genuine victim by not believing him/her far outweighs the damage you might inflict upon someone who is falsely accused of being an abuser.

    No, just no. That is a patent recipie for miscarriages of justice. As has been pointed out elsewhere the stigma of even being accused of sexual abuse, due to the laws and attitudes in many Western countries, is not something that simply goes away if the charges are dropped or you are found innocent. The heightened awareness in society and, in some people, hysteria that accompanies the subject means that innocent people get publically demonised based purely on an accusation, and often that will stick with them. In the worst cases, they can be falsely imprisoned. That same awareness of the subject has raised the number of false reports as the kind of people who will exploit these things become aware of how powerful it can be. Unfortunately, this means the group of innocent people who are falsely accused is not something that can be dismissed as statistically insignificant, if miscarriages of justice can be ever reduced to statistics.

    Sexual abuse is a terrible thing inflicted on innocents; it does not improve the world to damage another group of innocent people through trying to be sympathetic to the first.

    Altalicious on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It may seem unfair to the accused, but the damage you might do to a genuine victim by not believing him/her far outweighs the damage you might inflict upon someone who is falsely accused of being an abuser.

    No, just no. That is a patent recipie for miscarriages of justice. As has been pointed out elsewhere the stigma of even being accused of sexual abuse, due to the laws and attitudes in many Western countries, is not something that simply goes away if the charges are dropped or you are found innocent. The heightened awareness in society and, in some people, hysteria that accompanies the subject means that innocent people get publically demonised based purely on an accusation, and often that will stick with them. In the worst cases, they can be falsely imprisoned. That same awareness of the subject has raised the number of false reports as the kind of people who will exploit these things become aware of how powerful it can be. Unfortunately, this means the group of innocent people who are falsely accused is not something that can be dismissed as statistically insignificant, if miscarriages of justice can be ever reduced to statistics.

    Sexual abuse is a terrible thing inflicted on innocents; it does not improve the world to damage another group of innocent people through trying to be sympathetic to the first.

    I am simply saying that on an interpersonal basis, you should believe someone when they claim to be abused and wish to talk to you about it. That doesn't mean the burden of proof in a court case should suddenly rest on the accused. I'm simply saying that if a friend tells you he/she is being abused, you should believe that person rather than scrutinizing their case and raising doubts vocally about their claims. I can tell you that my mother dealt with people, including family members, who didn't believe her. It was terrible and it really, really hurt her.

    And while I feel for those who are falsely accused, victims of abuse are stigmatized too, and in their case I think the stigma does a lot more psychological damage.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    MKR on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The worst thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I think what HLB is trying to say (and I hope he forgives me if I'm incorrect) is that you should take accusations of abuse seriously when they're reported and consider that it is very possible the abused party is telling the truth, even if the accuser in question is a small child.

    Obviously the reality of whether or not abuse actually took place should be decided by the police.

    Fortunately, this (probably) doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to, because we as a society have finally realized that such claims can be true. But because many people don't want to believe that those they know could do such a heinous crime, leading to a lot of kids who try to tell about their abuse just being told not to say such nasty things about their neighbor/uncle/teacher.

    Duffel on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The only thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    :?

    Why would you think you have to start from a belief to hear someone out or console them? And even if you didn't believe them, you'd have to be terrifyingly insensitive to tell them that.

    If I don't believe someone, I'll go along with it until I've heard them out. If there's nothing I can do or they don't convince me, I keep my mouth shut and refer them to someone who can help.

    MKR on
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The only thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    You leave the second part alone.

    "I'm here for you" doesn't require you to say anything to a victim about the validity of their claims.

    And you grossly underestimate the stigma of those accused of sexual abuse. It radically alters the life of the accused.

    HappylilElf on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Oh crap, I made a major typo there. Whoops. I meant to say worst, not "only."

    HushLittleBaby on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The only thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    You leave the second part alone.

    "I'm here for you" doesn't require you to say anything to a victim about the validity of their claims.

    And you grossly underestimate the stigma of those accused of sexual abuse. It radically alters the life oof the accused.

    I think the general public should probably remain neutral. But if you are a friend to someone and they claim to have been abused, you should absolutely believe them. They aren't just looking for someone to hear them out. When they come to you, they want to be believed.

    And I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those who claim to have been abused, actually were.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The only thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    You leave the second part alone.

    "I'm here for you" doesn't require you to say anything to a victim about the validity of their claims.

    And you grossly underestimate the stigma of those accused of sexual abuse. It radically alters the life oof the accused.

    I think the general public should probably remain neutral. But if you are a friend to someone and they claim to have been abused, you should absolutely believe them. They aren't just looking for someone to hear them out. When they come to you, they want to be believed.

    And I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those who claim to have been abused, actually were.

    That's the problem though, the general public doesn't remain neutral. God forbid you have a job as something like a teacher too, you're basiaclly unemployable after an accusation.

    Again though, you leave your beliefs out of it. There's no reason in the world to bring up your opinion of the veracity of the abused claims to be there for them, in fact it seems like that'd be a horrible idea.

    HappylilElf on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Maybe it's just because I'm both a skeptical and considerate person. It's just not in my nature to believe someone by default. I can, however, recognize that something is wrong and see to it that they get the help they need.

    There's a vast gradient between blind support and being a skeptical jerk.

    MKR on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    You don't have to jump straight to belief to be supportive.

    Yes you do. You can't tell a victim: "Well, I support you, but I don't believe you."

    That doesn't even make sense. The only thing you can do in response to a claim of abuse, short of literally blaming the victim for it, is to tell that victim that you don't believe them. In fact, the scrutiny they know they'll face from friends/loved ones after claiming to be abused is likely one of the main reasons abuse often goes unreported.

    You leave the second part alone.

    "I'm here for you" doesn't require you to say anything to a victim about the validity of their claims.

    And you grossly underestimate the stigma of those accused of sexual abuse. It radically alters the life oof the accused.

    I think the general public should probably remain neutral. But if you are a friend to someone and they claim to have been abused, you should absolutely believe them. They aren't just looking for someone to hear them out. When they come to you, they want to be believed.

    And I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of those who claim to have been abused, actually were.

    That's the problem though, the general public doesn't remain neutral. God forbid you have a job as something like a teacher too, you're basiaclly unemployable after an accusation.

    Again though, you leave your beliefs out of it. There's no reason in the world to bring up your opinion of the veracity of the abused claims to be there for them, in fact it seems like that'd be a horrible idea.

    The other thing the public often does is blame the victim, or accuse the victim of lying. This happens in cases where the accused is well-liked. Roman Polanski seems to have more people in his corner than his victim does. People go out of their way to convince themselves (and their friends) that Polanski either didn't do it, or the girl wasn't "innocent" enough to be a victim.

    And no, you don't leave your beliefs out of it. You believe him/her. A child coming to you and claiming to have been molested needs people in his/her corner.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    MKR on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    I am saying the first words to come out of your mouth should be: "I believe you."

    You need to be an ally to that child because family members/friends/associates will likely come out of the woodwork to stand on the side of the accused.

    Of course, this all applies to adult accusers as well.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    I am saying the first words to come out of your mouth should be: "I believe you."

    You need to be an ally to that child because family members/friends/associates will likely come out of the woodwork to stand on the side of the accused.

    Of course, this all applies to adult accusers as well.

    Why not "tell me about it?" Are you not able to hear what someone says if you don't default to belief? Disbelief isn't the only other option.

    I am just not a fan of siding with one person against another without hearing anyone out first. Lots of bad has come from that kind of thinking. Yes, they're being truthful most of the time. But I want to be open to that one time when they aren't and the person being falsely accused needs someone to talk to.

    MKR on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010

    The other thing the public often does is blame the victim, or accuse the victim of lying. This happens in cases where the accused is well-liked. Roman Polanski seems to have more people in his corner than his victim does. People go out of their way to convince themselves (and their friends) that Polanski either didn't do it, or the girl wasn't "innocent" enough to be a victim.

    Some people seem to forget his victim is in his corner as well.
    MKR wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    I am saying the first words to come out of your mouth should be: "I believe you."

    You need to be an ally to that child because family members/friends/associates will likely come out of the woodwork to stand on the side of the accused.

    Of course, this all applies to adult accusers as well.

    Why not "tell me about it?" Are you not able to hear what someone says if you don't default to belief? Disbelief isn't the only other option.

    I am just not a fan of siding with one person against another without hearing anyone out first. Lots of bad has come from that kind of thinking. Yes, they're being truthful most of the time. But I want to be open to that one time when they aren't and the person being falsely accused needs someone to talk to.

    Seriously since it has happened in the past where someone has falsely told their friend they were a victim either in order to gain sympathy or garner hate for the accused. This isn't to say that you should automatically distrust a victim but you should be open to hearing all sides of an issue and your first words do not need to be "I believe you".

    DeShadowC on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    I am saying the first words to come out of your mouth should be: "I believe you."

    You need to be an ally to that child because family members/friends/associates will likely come out of the woodwork to stand on the side of the accused.

    Of course, this all applies to adult accusers as well.

    Why not "tell me about it?" Are you not able to hear what someone says if you don't default to belief? Disbelief isn't the only other option.

    I am just not a fan of siding with one person against another without hearing anyone out first. Lots of bad has come from that kind of thinking. Yes, they're being truthful most of the time. But I want to be open to that one time when they aren't and the person being falsely accused needs someone to talk to.

    And unfortunately, much of the time, the evidence has disappeared long before the accusation was made. And so, basically, it's the word of an adult versus that of a child.

    The child will not be able to make his/her case as skillfully as an adult. Small children aren't known for their rhetorical prowess.

    Despite that, they are generally telling the truth, and they need your help.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2010
    I have to agree with HLB - if a person actually trusts you enough to tell you he or she believes to have been forcefully subjected to anything sexual, then you should say you believe that side of the story, and hold any skepticism or concern for the possible innocent accused in the back of your head, but unspoken. There is no reason to assert anything but complete belief, because that is what the person who revealed this painful experience needs and, I think, deserves from you. You don't have to ask for nuance or second-guess the experience, and it's not as if your words will start a lynching mob.

    You have not exactly made an oath in court, and just because you tell the accuser that you fully believe the accused committed foul play doesn't mean you single-handedly will make life worse for the (possibly innocent) accused.

    I can't really put into words how impressed I am by this thread and its purpose, HushLittleBaby, because it would be very time-consuming to list everything that is good, brave and difficult about what you have done, and to list the many ways it can help.

    I am very sorry for your mother's death but I feel happy about her life.

    Thank you sincerely.

    Kastanj on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    And unfortunately, much of the time, the evidence has disappeared long before the accusation was made. And so, basically, it's the word of an adult versus that of a child.

    The child will not be able to make his/her case as skillfully as an adult. Small children aren't known for their rhetorical prowess.

    Despite that, they are generally telling the truth, and they need your help.

    If a kid makes an accusation and has shown no exceptional capacity for lying, I would tend to side with him/her. This would be a sensible judgment made by weighing evidence (in this case, the tendency of kids to be painfully honest). Are we limiting this discussion to children?

    MKR on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »

    The other thing the public often does is blame the victim, or accuse the victim of lying. This happens in cases where the accused is well-liked. Roman Polanski seems to have more people in his corner than his victim does. People go out of their way to convince themselves (and their friends) that Polanski either didn't do it, or the girl wasn't "innocent" enough to be a victim.

    Some people seem to forget his victim is in his corner as well.
    MKR wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say belief? I think we may have dueling definitions here.

    I am saying the first words to come out of your mouth should be: "I believe you."

    You need to be an ally to that child because family members/friends/associates will likely come out of the woodwork to stand on the side of the accused.

    Of course, this all applies to adult accusers as well.

    Why not "tell me about it?" Are you not able to hear what someone says if you don't default to belief? Disbelief isn't the only other option.

    I am just not a fan of siding with one person against another without hearing anyone out first. Lots of bad has come from that kind of thinking. Yes, they're being truthful most of the time. But I want to be open to that one time when they aren't and the person being falsely accused needs someone to talk to.

    Seriously since it has happened in the past where someone has falsely told their friend they were a victim either in order to gain sympathy or garner hate for the accused. This isn't to say that you should automatically distrust a victim but you should be open to hearing all sides of an issue and your first words do not need to be "I believe you".

    His victim is not in his corner. She simply does not want to be revictimized by a "skeptical" public that would rather scrutinize her every word (and not often scrutinize those of Polanski) so they can convince themselves that she wasn't really raped.

    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, I'm not saying you have to aggressively seek to make the accused's life hell. Just act to protect the child and hold the child's hand through the legal process.

    Your belief won't instantly condemn the accused. Let the courts hash out guilt.

    And, of course, those courts will be susceptible to the same forces that compel people to side with Polanski rather than his victim, but that's another subject altogether.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Kastanj wrote: »
    I have to agree with HLB - if a person actually trusts you enough to tell you he or she believes to have been forcefully subjected to anything sexual, then you should say you believe that side of the story, and hold any skepticism or concern for the possible innocent accused in the back of your head, but unspoken. There is no reason to assert anything but complete belief, because that is what the person who revealed this painful experience needs and, I think, deserves from you. You don't have to ask for nuance or second-guess the experience, and it's not as if your words will start a lynching mob.

    You have not exactly made an oath in court, and just because you tell the accuser that you fully believe the accused committed foul play doesn't mean you single-handedly will make life worse for the (possibly innocent) accused.

    I can't really put into words how impressed I am by this thread and its purpose, HushLittleBaby, because it would be very time-consuming to list everything that is good, brave and difficult about what you have done, and to list the many ways it can help.

    I am very sorry for your mother's death but I feel happy about her life.

    Thank you sincerely.

    Thanks for the kind words! If my mom could hear them, she'd be grateful as well.

    I just hope survivors will find some comfort in it. If it stops one suicide, or even comforts one troubled soul, I think it'll have been worth it.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    DeShadowC on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    Except you can help the victim without automatically believing their story and we've already stated earlier in the thread the mere accusation of these crimes even when shown to be untrue can and will ruin someone's life and reputation.

    DeShadowC on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    Except you can help the victim without automatically believing their story and we've already stated earlier in the thread the mere accusation of these crimes even when shown to be untrue can and will ruin someone's life and reputation.

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them. It's what they need the most. Not believing them may have the consequence of causing the victim to withdraw the accusation because, hey, if no one believes me, why bother? It'll just bring about more abuse anyway, and now other people will victimize me by not believing me.

    And again, the ideal reaction is not one in which you go and burn the accused's house down. It's enough simply to voice your support for the victim to the victim, and to protect that victim from further abuse. And it's especially important to hold that victim's hand while he/she is forced to endure the often-traumatic judicial process.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    MKR on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    Seriously. Also as someone who was falsely accused of stalking and harassment of a female classmate in high school, not quite as bad as sexual assault but can still come off as pretty bad, which was proven without any doubt to be a false accusation, I can tell you the victims friends will alienate the accused even after finding out the accused isn't guilty of said crimes.

    DeShadowC on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • rational vashrational vash Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    Except you can help the victim without automatically believing their story and we've already stated earlier in the thread the mere accusation of these crimes even when shown to be untrue can and will ruin someone's life and reputation.

    You know, when i first read this i thought, "Why can't you publicly say you believe them whle waiting for evidence privately?" This way, you can console them while remaining rational.

    But then it occurred to me, who would be raped and then admit it to me? A random stranger? Or a close friend, or family member? Obviously the latter, and if my best friend/wife/daughter told me she'd been raped by so-and-so, I would most certainly believe her. So how about this

    If someone tells you they've been raped

    1) Believe them, unless
    1a)You are law enforcement instead of a close associate of the victim,
    2) Don't be a vigilante

    Also, if my friend told me so-and-so hit him, mugged him, etc. I would believe him. I think molst people would too. I can't help but wonder if this is one of those stigmas associated to victims of sexual abuse that I frequently hear about.

    rational vash on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    That's a ridiculous ascertain. You can provide sympathy and support to a victim without ever uttering the words, "I believe you."

    DeShadowC on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    This had not been my experience with consoling people about things.

    MKR on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    Except you can help the victim without automatically believing their story and we've already stated earlier in the thread the mere accusation of these crimes even when shown to be untrue can and will ruin someone's life and reputation.

    You know, when i first read this i thought, "Why can't you publicly say you believe them whle waiting for evidence privately?" This way, you can console them while remaining rational.

    But then it occurred to me, who would be raped and then admit it to me? A random stranger? Or a close friend, or family member? Obviously the latter, and if my best friend/wife/daughter told me she'd been raped by so-and-so, I would most certainly believe her. So how about this

    If someone tells you they've been raped

    1) Believe them, unless
    1a)You are law enforcement instead of a close associate of the victim,
    2) Don't be a vigilante

    Also, if my friend told me so-and-so hit him, mugged him, etc. I would believe him. I think molst people would too. I can't help but wonder if this is one of those stigmas associated to victims of sexual abuse that I frequently hear about.

    The stigma comes from people being falsely accused and having their lives ruined forever after. All I'm saying is you can offer support without ever having to offer belief. You should sympathize with someone and support their legal methods of handling the situation but that is all.

    DeShadowC on
  • rational vashrational vash Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    That's a ridiculous ascertain. You can provide sympathy and support to a victim without ever uttering the words, "I believe you."

    Not really. They might be a little upset that you think they're maliciously lying to get revenge or something.

    rational vash on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    That's a ridiculous ascertain. You can provide sympathy and support to a victim without ever uttering the words, "I believe you."

    Not really. They might be a little upset that you think they're maliciously lying to get revenge or something.

    I'm not saying you should tell them you don't believe them and want to see proof. I'm saying you should show them sympathy and support.

    DeShadowC on
  • HushLittleBabyHushLittleBaby Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    That's a ridiculous ascertain. You can provide sympathy and support to a victim without ever uttering the words, "I believe you."

    Not really. They might be a little upset that you think they're maliciously lying to get revenge or something.

    Yeah, and the notion that you're even willing to consider that possibility hurts like crazy.

    HushLittleBaby on
  • rational vashrational vash Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    And as a trusted friend or family member, yes, you do need to believe the accuser. You absolutely do. They are coming to you because they need people to believe them. Sure, they want to be consoled, but even more than that they want to be protected and believed.

    No you don't and part of the reason people who are innocently accused of sexual abuse end up being victimized is due to that belief.

    I can tell you that it would have destroyed my mother had I approached her accusations with a sense of skepticism. I believed her, and I think it was the right thing to do.

    And while, again, I do feel for those who are falsely accused, I think people who claim to be victims of abuse are revictimized far more often than the falsely accused. And it is much more important to protect victims of abuse than it is to first ensure that they really were abused.

    And again, I'm not saying you have to go and "victimize" the accused. Protect the victim, believe the victim, and let the courts do their thing.

    Except you can help the victim without automatically believing their story and we've already stated earlier in the thread the mere accusation of these crimes even when shown to be untrue can and will ruin someone's life and reputation.

    You know, when i first read this i thought, "Why can't you publicly say you believe them whle waiting for evidence privately?" This way, you can console them while remaining rational.

    But then it occurred to me, who would be raped and then admit it to me? A random stranger? Or a close friend, or family member? Obviously the latter, and if my best friend/wife/daughter told me she'd been raped by so-and-so, I would most certainly believe her. So how about this

    If someone tells you they've been raped

    1) Believe them, unless
    1a)You are law enforcement instead of a close associate of the victim,
    2) Don't be a vigilante

    Also, if my friend told me so-and-so hit him, mugged him, etc. I would believe him. I think molst people would too. I can't help but wonder if this is one of those stigmas associated to victims of sexual abuse that I frequently hear about.

    The stigma comes from people being falsely accused and having their lives ruined forever after. All I'm saying is you can offer support without ever having to offer belief. You should sympathize with someone and support their legal methods of handling the situation but that is all.
    No one likes to think their friend/son/father is a rapist, so they assume they're innocent. This means that every rape conviction is assumed to be a false accusation, regardless of what the court says. The only way for the stigma against abuse victims to go away is if they stopped reporting altogether, not if the minority of women who file false charges suddenly got their shit together and stopped lying.

    rational vash on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    DeShadowC wrote: »
    MKR wrote: »

    You cannot emotionally support the victim without believing them.

    That's quite a bold statement. Your own capacity for compassion without judgment is not necessarily the same as others.

    You can certainly try, and you can be nice to the person, but they will take absolutely no comfort in any of that unless you also believe them.

    That support will seem hollow and meaningless to the accuser.

    That's a ridiculous ascertain. You can provide sympathy and support to a victim without ever uttering the words, "I believe you."

    Not really. They might be a little upset that you think they're maliciously lying to get revenge or something.

    There's that assumption again. How would they know? You aren't telling them because that would be a jerk thing to do.

    MKR on
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