MMA X: Captain Guillotine: Fear the man who has practiced one choke 10,000 times

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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Why would you be against meaningful stats in any sport?
    I don't think anyone is against meaningful stats, but there are some sports where it is very hard to apply statistics in a meaningful way.

    How many takedowns is a knockdown worth? Is a jab better than a teep?

    The idea of fighter statistics is that if Joe Rogan says something like "GSP is great at passing guard from the top!" there's then a stat to back that up. An actual quantifiable stat. I'm not saying that MMA needs to be like Baseball and invent new stats every year but having some sort of stat system wouldn't hurt.

    JustinSane07 on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    As to it helping you analyze a whole fight, if you can't remember what happened ten minutes ago then you might want to work on some kind of brain exercises.

    If this were true, then no one would ever talk about a fighter "stealing a round" with a late flurry.
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Marcus Davis tried the same thing after Hardy beat him, "look at the numbers!" but the judges looked at their faces, Davis looked like he had been raped by a bear, Dan looked like he was modelling for Gillette. Damage > Control imho.

    I've never liked the "look at their faces" metric. Some guys simply bruise and bleed more easily than others. How is it fair to punish Forrest because he has a ton of facial scar tissue from previous fights? Or Fedor, who got cut in training, which was then re-opened by Rogers?

    Also, bruises show up more prominently on lighter-toned skin.

    BubbaT on
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    So it doesn't need to be part of the broadcast.

    Yeah, this here. Numbers are important in other sports because they provide a meaningful context for a player or team's performance. If I don't know a guy on a baseball team but I see that he's batting .233, that tells me with reasonable accuracy that he's not good at batting. I've not seen a statistic that really tells me more about a fighter's performance aside from his win/loss record; I'm not trying to end the debate, I'm just saying what I think.

    As to it helping you analyze a whole fight, if you can't remember what happened ten minutes ago then you might want to work on some kind of brain exercises.

    Wet I get that you like them for fights you haven't seen but again can you really break a fight down into numbers in a meaningful way?

    You seriously think no one goes, "Oh man, he TOTALLY won the fight in round three!" and forgets that the other two rounds were pretty obviously in the other guy's favor, but not by a huge margin? Why would you be against meaningful stats in any sport?

    I'm sure people do that but you think stats are going to help? My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    If it's just for matches I get it; some people like exact numbers of things like strikes thrown, sub attempts, etc. But I don't think any of those numbers gives you the true story of a round and I'm also not sure I trust the systems generating the numbers yet. They seem weirdly off sometimes.

    Peen on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    I've never liked the "look at their faces" metric. Some guys simply bruise and bleed more easily than others. How is it fair to punish Forrest because he has a ton of facial scar tissue from previous fights? Or Fedor, who got cut in training, which was then re-opened by Rogers?

    Also, bruises show up more prominently on lighter-toned skin.
    I don't think anyone bleeds better than Marcus Davis. :^:

    815165 on
  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Wet Bandit on
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    I've never liked the "look at their faces" metric. Some guys simply bruise and bleed more easily than others. How is it fair to punish Forrest because he has a ton of facial scar tissue from previous fights? Or Fedor, who got cut in training, which was then re-opened by Rogers?

    Also, bruises show up more prominently on lighter-toned skin.
    I don't think anyone bleeds better than Marcus Davis. :^:

    Oh indeed, but if you watch the fight you will see Dan rocking Davis, cutting Davis and very nearly TKO'ing Davis. Marcus scored some TD's, attempted some subs and caught Dan off balance for a moment and thats it.

    It was close yes, and I was being glib with my example, but Davis was a sore loser for sure.

    Venkman90 on
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Ok, example time: There's a fight. Round one, Fighter A throws a whole bunch of punches, Fighter B is doing an excellent job of evading, throwing leg kicks, and the occasional counter hook. Machidaesque. Watching it, it seems clear that Fighter B won the round based on damage done and strikes landed.

    There's another fight. Fighter A again throws a lot of punches, aggressively chasing Fighter B around the cage. Fighter B is basically backpedaling, waiting for an opening that's not there, and throwing punches once in a while but generally being passive and letting the first guy dictate the pace. It looks like Fighter A won the round and Fighter B's ducking him.

    The stats for those two rounds could look very similar but watching it your impression of who won the round would be totally different. What's going to tell the more true version of the round, the stats or actually watching it?

    Peen on
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    Why would you be against meaningful stats in any sport?
    I don't think anyone is against meaningful stats, but there are some sports where it is very hard to apply statistics in a meaningful way.

    How many takedowns is a knockdown worth? Is a jab better than a teep?

    I think stats in MMA are a good way of saying who did what more, but not a way of saying who did what better.

    That's true of any sport though, at least to some extent. How many rebounds are worth a steal in basketball? How good is a double compared to a runner thrown out? What about a pancake block compared to avg kickoff return yards? The stats can be somewhat subjective (see errors in baseball, assists in basketball), not directly add up together, and still paint a good picture. In fact, since baseball went to advanced stats (since the late 80s or so), the understanding of the game has gone up. Even the old douchebags who were like, "Hurgleblurgle stats don't tell the whole story" have shifted over to discussing OPB/OPS at least. You don't have to see a 15 K game to understand that pitcher was on fire. On the other hand, a no-hitter could be deceptive, and you might need to watch tape to see that the other team's hitters just had an atrocious game, or they just happened to hit to the fielders every time.

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    That's true of any sport though, at least to some extent. How many rebounds are worth a steal in basketball? How good is a double compared to a runner thrown out? What about a pancake block compared to avg kickoff return yards? The stats can be somewhat subjective (see errors in baseball, assists in basketball), not directly add up together, and still paint a good picture. In fact, since baseball went to advanced stats (since the late 80s or so), the understanding of the game has gone up. Even the old douchebags who were like, "Hurgleblurgle stats don't tell the whole story" have shifted over to discussing OPB/OPS at least. You don't have to see a 15 K game to understand that pitcher was on fire. On the other hand, a no-hitter could be deceptive, and you might need to watch tape to see that the other team's hitters just had an atrocious game, or they just happened to hit to the fielders every time.
    Baseball is pretty much perfect for being recorded statistically, though, because of the way it's broken down into plays. I see MMA as more similar to football (soccer) in terms of being free flowing and having a large variety of strategies to accomplish the same goal.

    edit: I think stats can tell you about fighters (A Silva is the most accurate striker in the UFC, GSP has the most successful takedown percentage, etc.) but they're probably a really weak way of telling you about fights.

    815165 on
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Ok, example time: There's a fight. Round one, Fighter A throws a whole bunch of punches, Fighter B is doing an excellent job of evading, throwing leg kicks, and the occasional counter hook. Machidaesque. Watching it, it seems clear that Fighter B won the round based on damage done and strikes landed.

    There's another fight. Fighter A again throws a lot of punches, aggressively chasing Fighter B around the cage. Fighter B is basically backpedaling, waiting for an opening that's not there, and throwing punches once in a while but generally being passive and letting the first guy dictate the pace. It looks like Fighter A won the round and Fighter B's ducking him.

    The stats for those two rounds could look very similar but watching it your impression of who won the round would be totally different. What's going to tell the more true version of the round, the stats or actually watching it?

    The only way the first fight looks like the second fight is if Fighter A connects with those punches. Otherwise, you go, "Hmm, 28 punchs thrown, 2 landed... looks like he was whiffing a lot!" If he's peppering him, say, 19/29 landed, but not damaging him, you'll see 0 power punches (which is subjective, but 0 is pretty obviously indicating that it wasn't like he was blasting Fighter B. You'll also see somethign like power-kick/strikes of, say, 3-4, for fighter B, indicating he controlled the round and blasted A a few times.

    In the 2nd fight, you'd more likely see 19/28, maybe a power punch, for fight A... and, say, 4/14 for Fighter B, 0 power strikes. Pretty obvious again what happened.

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  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    As to it helping you analyze a whole fight, if you can't remember what happened ten minutes ago then you might want to work on some kind of brain exercises.

    If this were true, then no one would ever talk about a fighter "stealing a round" with a late flurry.
    Venkman90 wrote: »
    Marcus Davis tried the same thing after Hardy beat him, "look at the numbers!" but the judges looked at their faces, Davis looked like he had been raped by a bear, Dan looked like he was modelling for Gillette. Damage > Control imho.

    I've never liked the "look at their faces" metric. Some guys simply bruise and bleed more easily than others. How is it fair to punish Forrest because he has a ton of facial scar tissue from previous fights? Or Fedor, who got cut in training, which was then re-opened by Rogers?

    Also, bruises show up more prominently on lighter-toned skin.

    True that. If they ruled by damage done, Fedor would have lost his fight with Crocop, and GSP would have lost his first fight against Penn.

    Judging needs to be a lot more detailed than just looking at blood 'n bruises.

    Unfortunately MMA judges are still pretty poor and don't know a whole lot.

    Also, they need monitors (with a neutral overview feed) at their little desks ringside, so they can get a view of the action when they can't see it through the cage.

    Neli on
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    [/size]
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Ok, example time: There's a fight. Round one, Fighter A throws a whole bunch of punches, Fighter B is doing an excellent job of evading, throwing leg kicks, and the occasional counter hook. Machidaesque. Watching it, it seems clear that Fighter B won the round based on damage done and strikes landed.

    There's another fight. Fighter A again throws a lot of punches, aggressively chasing Fighter B around the cage. Fighter B is basically backpedaling, waiting for an opening that's not there, and throwing punches once in a while but generally being passive and letting the first guy dictate the pace. It looks like Fighter A won the round and Fighter B's ducking him.

    The stats for those two rounds could look very similar but watching it your impression of who won the round would be totally different. What's going to tell the more true version of the round, the stats or actually watching it?

    This is my main gripe with the system as well. I like that it exists, and it's a cool idea. I don't want it to become "official," and I don't want the fighters/judges to be able to look at the "numbers" and say "Well, obviously I/He won all three rounds!" It's rarely that clear cut.

    I'd like to go back to my example of the Jacare/Kennedy fight a few weeks back. Kennedy had more strikes landed by a little bit, and a good chunk of his strikes were ineffective leg kicks. The numbers don't reflect that at all. On paper it looks like Kennedy won. He did not win.


    In other news, sherdog shows the result of Lashley/Griggs as follows:

    Chad Griggs.......Bobby Lashley.......TKO (Retirement) :lol:

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  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Ok, example time: There's a fight. Round one, Fighter A throws a whole bunch of punches, Fighter B is doing an excellent job of evading, throwing leg kicks, and the occasional counter hook. Machidaesque. Watching it, it seems clear that Fighter B won the round based on damage done and strikes landed.

    There's another fight. Fighter A again throws a lot of punches, aggressively chasing Fighter B around the cage. Fighter B is basically backpedaling, waiting for an opening that's not there, and throwing punches once in a while but generally being passive and letting the first guy dictate the pace. It looks like Fighter A won the round and Fighter B's ducking him.

    The stats for those two rounds could look very similar but watching it your impression of who won the round would be totally different. What's going to tell the more true version of the round, the stats or actually watching it?

    The only difference is the effectiveness of Fighter B in the two examples. How do we judge the effectiveness of a counter-punching strategy? By strikes landed and damage done, both of which can be reasonably conveyed using statistics.

    I don't want stats being used to judge fights, but you've shown me literally no reason why they can't be used to inform fights.

    Wet Bandit on
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm going to remain in the corner with the skeptics, thanks.

    Now if you could kindly stay off my lawn, it's time for my nap.

    Peen on
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well, this isn't exactly Miss Beauty Pageant. No one's stopping you from checking out the women, but what do you honestly expect?
    gina_carano1.jpg

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    My point is still that I'm not sure MMA stats are meaningful to understanding either individual fights or individual fighters like they are in other sports.

    What are you basing this on?

    Ok, example time: There's a fight. Round one, Fighter A throws a whole bunch of punches, Fighter B is doing an excellent job of evading, throwing leg kicks, and the occasional counter hook. Machidaesque. Watching it, it seems clear that Fighter B won the round based on damage done and strikes landed.

    There's another fight. Fighter A again throws a lot of punches, aggressively chasing Fighter B around the cage. Fighter B is basically backpedaling, waiting for an opening that's not there, and throwing punches once in a while but generally being passive and letting the first guy dictate the pace. It looks like Fighter A won the round and Fighter B's ducking him.

    The stats for those two rounds could look very similar but watching it your impression of who won the round would be totally different. What's going to tell the more true version of the round, the stats or actually watching it?

    This is my main gripe with the system as well. I like that it exists, and it's a cool idea. I don't want it to become "official," and I don't want the fighters/judges to be able to look at the "numbers" and say "Well, obviously I/He won all three rounds!" It's rarely that clear cut.

    I'd like to go back to my example of the Jacare/Kennedy fight a few weeks back. Kennedy had more strikes landed by a little bit, and a good chunk of his strikes were ineffective leg kicks. The numbers don't reflect that at all. On paper it looks like Kennedy won. He did not win.

    The punch stats for boxing have multiple columns. One is total punches. Another is power punches. They don't equate a jab with an uppercut.

    BubbaT on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Well, this isn't exactly Miss Beauty Pageant. No one's stopping you from checking out the women, but what do you honestly expect?
    gina_carano1.jpg

    I thought we were talking about girls who still actually fight.

    Miesha-Tate-Can.jpg

    BubbaT on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Well, this isn't exactly Miss Beauty Pageant. No one's stopping you from checking out the women, but what do you honestly expect?
    gina_carano1.jpg[img][/img]

    I thought we were talking about girls who still actually fight.

    Miesha-Tate-Can.jpg[IMG][/img]
    awww yissss
    sexyama.jpg

    dlinfiniti on
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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Spectrum wrote: »
    Genki ;_;

    Well as long as we can get our Genki Sudo fix from music videos I guess we'll get by...

    Speaking of Genki's music videos, does anybody have a copy of the original World Order music video? We spoke of it in a past MMA thread. There are several version on youtube now, but a couple of original ones were removed, one of which is by far my favorite. Its a bit over 3 minutes long I think and has the best combination of choreographed dance stuff. Anyone know where I might find something like that? Did anyone here happen to download it to their hard drive? I really want it, the others just dont measure up.

    [Tycho?] on
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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Oh. and doug_grammar, thanks a bunch for posting those news snippets. My attention on MMA has shrunk lately, mostly because I started a real job that takes most of my time. Your posts give me a lot tidbits that I wouldn't otherwise get, thank you sir, and keep it up.

    [Tycho?] on
    mvaYcgc.jpg
  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    GSP is 6 feet tall? Certainly doesn't say so in UFC broadcasts, he's at 5'11 or 5'10 I think. Not that I particularly trust height measurements, sports organizations have a way of padding those numbers a bit.

    [Tycho?] on
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  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    A picture was posted on SA where they showed that GSP's displayed height varied a lot over several broadcasts :lol:

    Neli on
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  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Also;
    Main Card:
    - Frankie Edgar $96,000 (includes $48,000 win bonus) def. B.J. Penn $150,000
    - Randy Couture $250,000 def. James Toney $500,000
    - Demian Maia $68,000 def. Mario Miranda $8,000
    - Gray Maynard $46,000 (includes $23,000 win bonus) def. Kenny Florian $65,000
    - Nate Diaz $60,000 (includes $30,000 win bonus) def. Marcus Davis $31,000

    Preliminary Card:
    - Joe Lauzon $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus) def. Gabe Ruediger $8,000
    - Nik Lentz $22,000 (includes $11,000 win bonus) def. Andre Winner $10,000
    - Dan Miller $30,000 (includes $15,000 win bonus) def. John Salter $8,000
    - Greg Soto $12,000 (includes $6,000 win bonus) def. Nick Osipczak $10,000
    - Mike Pierce $24,000 (includes $12,000 win bonus) def. Amilcar Alves $6,000

    Plus the $60,000 fight-night bonuses:
    - Fight of the Night: Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis
    - Submission of the Night: Joe Lauzon


    note what James "I can't speak English" Toney got as payment

    Neli on
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    I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
    [/size]
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    half a mil for that shit show
    ugh

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  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Does anyone know how much Toney would make for a boxing fight at this stage in his career?

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  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    well muhammad ali took home more than 6mil to attend that ridiculous spectacle with inoki...

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'd let some old man make me look silly for half a mil, please.

    815165 on
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    well muhammad ali took home more than 6mil to attend that ridiculous spectacle with inoki...

    Yeah but Ali was one of the most famous athletes of his era. I don't really follow boxing but I had only heard of Toney in passing, he wasn't a global icon.

    Good for both of them though. Couture got $250,000 and probably a nice gift from Dana for dominating an easy fight. Toney probably really needed that money and I can't blame anyone for firing up the hype machine and getting paid. I'm sure they sold some PPVs and they deserve their money for that.

    I am surprised how little Edgar got paid as the Lightweight Champ. I know that BJ is the big name but Edgar was only making about a quarter of what Penn was (without the win bonus)

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm not sure how many PPV buys Frankie being on the card was actually responsible for, though.

    815165 on
  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Couture got $250,000 and probably a nice gift from Dana for dominating an easy fight.

    He almost certainly also got a percentage of the PPV buys. I know his old deal he had it (the one he disputed when he took Zuffa to court), and I don't see why he wouldn't still.

    So I can't figure out when the fuck Bellator's going to air. There are two college football games on FSN tonight, and it's not listed. Bleh.

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  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how many PPV buys Frankie being on the card was actually responsible for, though.

    Well he is Lightweight champion, at some point you need to promote your champions so your titles mean something. Right now they promote Brock incredibly hard, Silva is a big name (though he has a hard time pulling PPV numbers on his own), GSP is a big name they promote hard (Especially since he is coaching TUF), Shogun would probably be promoted hard if he wasn't injured. I just don't see them pushing Edgar as champion.

    I'm pretty sure they wanted Penn to win the title back so they would have a more marketable name to promote as lightweight champion. However at some point they are going to have to start promoting Edgar as a legit champion.

    I wish we were able to see how much Edgar made for UFC 112, but since it wasn't in the US it wasn't disclosed.

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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Don't worry about Edgar. The guy's beaten BJ Penn twice. Edgar's going to start shitting money soon.
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    Oh. and doug_grammar, thanks a bunch for posting those news snippets. My attention on MMA has shrunk lately, mostly because I started a real job that takes most of my time. Your posts give me a lot tidbits that I wouldn't otherwise get, thank you sir, and keep it up.

    It's real easy to miss the news, so I figured I could just sum up what I read into one condensed post for convenience. Thanks for the feedback.

    NOW HERE COMES YOUR DAILY MMA NEWS!

    The Demolition Man versus The Last Russian Emperor: Next Year?
    "About the fight I can be short;

    The fight is definite. I've waited long enough for Fedor, [he] did not answer so now I do K-1. Fedor and M-1 may now wait for me. And all that happiness around 'M-1 and characters' does not amuse me.

    However, the fight 'Overeem vs. Fedor' will definitely [happen] since no one is afraid of anyone anymore."

    The response came after he had seen a video of a couple of fans urging him to fight Fedor instead of heading to K-1.

    The Heat is on! Karo Parisyan back in the UFC!


    Karo "The Heat" Parisyan, the one-time top ten welterweight and former 170lb title contender has been asked to return to the UFC and face Dennis Hallman at UFC 123 in Detroit. Since leaving the UFC, Parisyan has only fought once, a submission victory over Ben Mortimer in Impact FC in Australia. How can the man who dropped out of a fight during weigh ins and grinded Dana's gears managed to get back into the UFC octagon? Below is some tid bit information from The Heat.
    "Dana and I are pretty good friends, and we were very close friends at the time (of the UFC 106 withdrawal)," Parisyan earlier said. "Dana felt kind of betrayed, and he felt really hurt that he did something for me and I just didn't pay (it) back.

    "But it had nothing to do with Dana or the UFC. The last thing I wanted to do was anything toward them. I don't [expletive] where I eat."

    Belcher's career on the line. Will he able to come back to the octagon to go after Anderson Silva?
    "Worst case is I don't get any better than this and I'm only working with one eye and then I probably don't want to risk fighting again with only one eye, cause if I lose that one, then I'm going to be blind," Belcher said. "So it's just -- I'm not even really thinking about fighting right now. I'm just going to wait a couple months and see where I'm at. It's disappointing cause I was on a roll and getting close to a title [shot]."

    Link to the full story. Wish you luck, Belcher.

    GSP or Koscheck? We know who Referee Yves Lavigne chooses.
    UFC referee, and French-Canadian, Yves Lavigne recently had some choice words for Josh Koscheck, the next opponent for Montreal's own Georges St. Pierre.
    À son dernier combat, au Centre Bell justement, il a eu peur de se faire frapper et s’est contenté de tenir son adversaire (le Britannique Paul Daley) au sol, a expliqué l’officiel québécois. Les partisans l’avaient hué et Daley, frustré de son attitude dans le combat, l’avait même frappé après le duel!
    Translated, that states that in Josh's last fight at the Bell Center, Josh was afraid to strike and was happy to hold Daley on the ground. The crowd booed and Daley, upset at the strategy, punched him after the bell. Now, there are some fans that have that same attitude. They are idiots. However, they aren't refs. This guy is. It's almost certain that he will be reffing on this card and there's a big chance he will be reffing this main. Oops, not anymore.

    Oh he's not done.

    The Gracies are coming back to the UFC!
    Daniel Gracie says he is planning on returning and hoping to fight on Nov 20 of this year. Would not say who he is about to sign with but coincidentally UFC 123 is scheduled on Nov 20. Keep in mind that Daniel Gracie is not blood related to the Gracies.

    Here is the link where he is being interviewed by Ariel Helwani

    This shamrock's out of luck. Ken Shamrock back into the octagon.
    Well it looks like Ken Shamrock is determined to free himself from the $175,000 financial debt he owes the UFC and WEC parent company, Zuffa LLC.

    According to MMAFighting, the 46-year-old UFC Hall-of-Famer, who unsuccessfully tried to sue the UFC earlier this year and now must pay the company's $175,000 in lawyers fees will take on Johnathan Ivey under the USA MMA banner October 16 in Lafayette, Louisiana.

    Perhaps Shamrock (27-14-2), who only has one win in the past five years, is thinking statistics will be on his side for this one.

    Ivey is 29-42 in 71 outings and has lost to every UFC and PRIDE fighter he has ever faced including Dan Severn, Jeremy Horn, Travis Wiuff, Ben Rothwell, Sam Hoger, Jake O'Brien, Ricco Rodriguez, and most recently, Sean McCorkle.

    The paycheck, which will most likely be made out to Zuffa, will be "The World's Most Dangerous Man's" second one he has earned for the UFC this year.

    In his most recent outing, he lost via first round leg kick TKO to Pedro Rizzo while fighting for the upstart Australian Impact FC promotion in July. He is the only fighter to date who has been paid in full for his services to the promotion.

    For those who are unfamiliar with the story of Ken suing the UFC, Shamrock launched the ill-fated suit against Zuffa last year, claiming that he was contracted to a second fight with the UFC to rematch Tito Ortiz after losing their third showdown in 2006. After that show, which by the "Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3: The Final Chapter" name alone indicated there likely wouldn't be another meeting between the two, Shamrock promptly announced his retirement.

    When he revealed two years later that he had his fingers crossed behind his back when he said he was retiring, the UFC was no longer interested in having him on their roster, (which is no surprise considering he was 44 at the time and was 1-6 in his last seven fights) which prompted Ken Sham to sue.

    Tapout tapping out? Tapout facing potential buy out.

    MMA’s top clothing brand TapouT has been synonymous with the sport for over 10 years, but their future could hold many changes. Sources close to TapouT have told MMAPrime.TV that the company will soon announce that they are sold or being sold and that sales representatives have already been let go from the clothing company’s headquarters. The source also stated that the new buyer is possibly none other than reputed billionaire Warren Buffett. Link to the story.

    Nick Diaz demonstrating his punching power on a fan who asked for it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3EUUXRLdc&feature=player_embedded

    doug_grammar on
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm down with the doug_grammar news minute too. :^:

    adytum on
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  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah doug, your news updates are awesome and greatly appreciated.

    I would really like to see Fedor vs. Overeem, I hope it actually happens and I hope they have that one on CBS.

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  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    but i don't want gus johnson anywhere near that fight

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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    I do. I now have a new yearning to see Gus get beaten horribly by both Fedor and Overeem.

    As he gets whaled on, he'll be screaming "GENTLEMEN, WE ARE ON NATIONAL TELEVISION." It'll be his final words.

    doug_grammar on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Man being a referee is hard, I don't think there's anything wrong with them stating their opinion on fights in public (them keeping quiet isn't going to change how they feel) as long as they're impartial during the fights. Yves fucks up more than you'd like but I've never felt he was being biased. :(

    815165 on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how many PPV buys Frankie being on the card was actually responsible for, though.

    Well he is Lightweight champion, at some point you need to promote your champions so your titles mean something. Right now they promote Brock incredibly hard, Silva is a big name (though he has a hard time pulling PPV numbers on his own), GSP is a big name they promote hard (Especially since he is coaching TUF), Shogun would probably be promoted hard if he wasn't injured. I just don't see them pushing Edgar as champion.

    I'm pretty sure they wanted Penn to win the title back so they would have a more marketable name to promote as lightweight champion. However at some point they are going to have to start promoting Edgar as a legit champion.

    I wish we were able to see how much Edgar made for UFC 112, but since it wasn't in the US it wasn't disclosed.

    Man, you have to make the fans want to see you. The average fan doesn't find Edgar exciting. I'm sure he has some new ones after his last fight, but he's not a big draw. You get paid what you're worth. James Toney (like him or hate him) put asses in seats. GSP puts asses in seats because he is exciting, and he is Canada's national treasure. Anderson is extremely exciting. Brock brought over a ton of wrestling fans (probably) and is a great heel. I'd be willing to bet that MMA fans in general are, on average, more upset over fighter pay than the fighters themselves are.

    EDIT: I pretty much agree with everything Yves Lavigne said in that little blurb re: Kos/GSP.

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  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Anderson is extremely exciting.

    This is news to me. I loved him when he was fighting Leben and Franklin, but it was all downhill from there. Except the Griffin fight I guess, but that was a strange fight anyway.

    [Tycho?] on
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  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how many PPV buys Frankie being on the card was actually responsible for, though.

    Well he is Lightweight champion, at some point you need to promote your champions so your titles mean something. Right now they promote Brock incredibly hard, Silva is a big name (though he has a hard time pulling PPV numbers on his own), GSP is a big name they promote hard (Especially since he is coaching TUF), Shogun would probably be promoted hard if he wasn't injured. I just don't see them pushing Edgar as champion.

    I'm pretty sure they wanted Penn to win the title back so they would have a more marketable name to promote as lightweight champion. However at some point they are going to have to start promoting Edgar as a legit champion.

    I wish we were able to see how much Edgar made for UFC 112, but since it wasn't in the US it wasn't disclosed.

    Man, you have to make the fans want to see you. The average fan doesn't find Edgar exciting. I'm sure he has some new ones after his last fight, but he's not a big draw. You get paid what you're worth. James Toney (like him or hate him) put asses in seats. GSP puts asses in seats because he is exciting, and he is Canada's national treasure. Anderson is extremely exciting. Brock brought over a ton of wrestling fans (probably) and is a great heel. I'd be willing to bet that MMA fans in general are, on average, more upset over fighter pay than the fighters themselves are.

    EDIT: I pretty much agree with everything Yves Lavigne said in that little blurb re: Kos/GSP.

    BJ and Edgar are both fighting under contracts that are old more than likely, like x fights for y dollars. He'll get 100k+ a fight once he re-ups, but right now they have him contracted. Brock, BJ, GSP, Rampage, Forrest, now Sonnen I guess, BJ, are all big names and have been for a while. They are paid accordingly.

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