I have a friend who attempted suicide and even though she's past it she still debates with me, repeatedly asking the question "Why should I live?" And I was raised by very good parents and had a great childhood (unlike her) so my answer is always the same: she should live because there's still so much she could see and do, and even if life gets fucked up every now and then there's always people who care about her.
See to me there's just so much out there to experience, that's why we live. To survive it even if suffering is inevitable.
But this guy, he REALLY meditated on the subject. It makes me wonder if I'm being ignorant on the whole subject of suicide. Maybe I don't understand it.
So I made this thread. So we could discuss the suicide note itself, all of what it brings up, and contemplate the great perhaps
Asking a friend about it he tells me that "Suicide is the ultimate form of power because it gives you control of your life."
If you're going to be leaving you might as well write a note for your family or people who actually cared about you. Still though, it seems a bit selfish to me either way.
Suicide is the ultimate selfish act, yes, but it's the most selfish act one can participate in (outside of perhaps killing everyone else in the world to have it to yourself). I'm reading through this "note" and it's a decent foray into modern philosophical thought on death. Really interesting stuff.
To what your friend says, this guy goes into that on a slightly more clinical level:
"Overcoming the “will to live”, then, represents one of the final steps in overcoming the provincial and “primitive” life instincts probably inherited from our evolutionary past, i.e. inclinations towards patriarchy, authoritarianism, sexism, kinism, and racism. It is not only a contribution to civilization but a culmination of the progress of civilization, that is, the application of reason to human existence. Only when the will to live itself is civilized, can one be free to acknowledge that reason itself does not dictate a bias towards life."
Essentially it was once natural to assume nothing in your life could change because of fate or natural biology, it was once natural to assume your king was your god, or as a woman to assume your husband your ruler. Now, thanks to Nihilism or something greater than nihilism we can fight against the order of life itself as an important act; according to this guy.
Dyrwen66 on
Just an ancient PA person who doesn't leave the house much.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2010
I thought this thread was going to be about the Minotaur.
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
oh noooo i am living off a giant inheritance oh woe is me.
Suicide is for cowards. There is always something you can do other than offing yourself.
edit: exactly anjin.
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2010
An introspective minotaur.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
committing suicide makes you a loser unless you're like 200 years old, and even then you better have something crazy that makes you horribly fucked forever
you know I think it might be possible that some people commit suicide because of Problems and instead of reviling them for their cowardice we might maybe be kinda sad that nobody gave them the help they needed
Anytime someone goes on about how selfish and cowardly suicide is I just want to throttle their silly goose necks. Fucking astounding levels of ignorance all up in.
there is never, ever, any good reason to kill yourself. if you think you've hit rock bottom you are wrong.
well I wouldn't fault people for being in unimaginable and incurable pain every day committing suicide
or vegetables, or some of the more debilitating diseases
but beyond that, yeah pity party
Raneados on
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2010
In all seriousness, since I am not a religious man, the idea of dying is pretty terrifying. I don't know what the hell is going to happen when I die so I'm going to live as long as I can.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
In all seriousness, since I am not a religious man, the idea of dying is pretty terrifying. I don't know what the hell is going to happen when I die so I'm going to live as long as I can.
amen to that
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Muse Among MenSuburban Bunny Princess?Its time for a new shtick Registered Userregular
why is it that people are pretty willing to say that debilitating physical pain is worth committing suicide over but debilitating psychological pain is not
there is never, ever, any good reason to kill yourself. if you think you've hit rock bottom you are wrong.
Terminal illness? But aside from that I would agree, it's never a good idea. However, it not being a good idea doesn't translate into the people who choose it being worthy of ridicule. The human mind is complicated, and with some empathy or some experience in the matter it's not too difficult to understand how someone's thoughts could end up on suicide, and doing the mental gymnastics necessary to convince them self that it's a Good Idea.
there is never, ever, any good reason to kill yourself. if you think you've hit rock bottom you are wrong.
Strangely enough, if anyone in the media or anywhere else read this essay, they'd know there is a reason and this guy gave it pretty early on in his essay:
"Challenging every living value by willing death is how I will test this question and how I will test this question is the experiment in nihilism."
He's literally testing the philosophical limits of nihilism and he did it by suicide. This isn't a typical suicide, it's an experiment by a crazy person who reasoned himself into it.
Dyrwen66 on
Just an ancient PA person who doesn't leave the house much.
committing suicide makes you a loser unless you're like 200 years old, and even then you better have something crazy that makes you horribly fucked forever
it is the ultimate form of giving up
and it is dumb
Nah. There are all sorts of reasons for suicide, some more justifiable than others, some undoubtedly related to mental illness, some informed by cultural values, some just related to having a long, shitty spot in your life that you could probably get past.
Getting mad at suicides does absolutely no good for someone contemplating it or who had a suicide attempt, and it's absurd to get mad at someone who actually offed them self, in the long run. Though getting mad at a dude who committed suicide can be an important part in getting past it for his friends and family.
there is never, ever, any good reason to kill yourself. if you think you've hit rock bottom you are wrong.
well I wouldn't fault people for being in unimaginable and incurable pain every day committing suicide
or vegetables, or some of the more debilitating diseases
but beyond that, yeah pity party
i guess i don't think of being a vegetable as suicide, since you're already dead (i think). But yeah my wife has instructions to pull the plug if that happens.
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Raneadospolice apologistyou shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
although as I get very old, I'm sure I'll be lying in my bed surrounded by loved ones
a life of adventure behind me
and if i get to be like 200 and like that, I'd probably see death as being the next adventure, and I'll probably be okay with it then
sometimes, when i'm standing on the roof of a tall building or on my balcony on the 8th floor, this bizarre thought pops up in my head telling me to jump, but then it goes away. nothing serious, because life is awesome, but i wonder where it comes from
Posts
Hard not to at least write something down.
It would destroy my little brother, and I can't do that to him
Everyone else would be fine and get over it eventually
I don't know if he could.
If you're going to be leaving you might as well write a note for your family or people who actually cared about you. Still though, it seems a bit selfish to me either way.
And that is okay.
edit: Also, skimming the table of contents and chapter titles of his note, this dude was kind of a head-up-his-ass douchebag.
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To what your friend says, this guy goes into that on a slightly more clinical level:
"Overcoming the “will to live”, then, represents one of the final steps in overcoming the provincial and “primitive” life instincts probably inherited from our evolutionary past, i.e. inclinations towards patriarchy, authoritarianism, sexism, kinism, and racism. It is not only a contribution to civilization but a culmination of the progress of civilization, that is, the application of reason to human existence. Only when the will to live itself is civilized, can one be free to acknowledge that reason itself does not dictate a bias towards life."
Essentially it was once natural to assume nothing in your life could change because of fate or natural biology, it was once natural to assume your king was your god, or as a woman to assume your husband your ruler. Now, thanks to Nihilism or something greater than nihilism we can fight against the order of life itself as an important act; according to this guy.
t shoe yes exactly
he has the face of a man who would create a webpage about his suicide for others to read, all making that expression and shit
this man discovered the new rick roll, and for that he is to be both commended and damned
suicide is not something i can begin to comprehend
oh noooo i am living off a giant inheritance oh woe is me.
Suicide is for cowards. There is always something you can do other than offing yourself.
edit: exactly anjin.
it is the ultimate form of giving up
and it is dumb
maybe actual suicide? depending on how you're feeling.
that's real helpful there. especially after the person's already dead!
Nihilism.
Existentialism makes sense.
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i'll take a glance at this later, though holy shit that's a lot of pdfs dog could you at least put em up in a html page so i don't have to...
oh wait
well I wouldn't fault people for being in unimaginable and incurable pain every day committing suicide
or vegetables, or some of the more debilitating diseases
but beyond that, yeah pity party
amen to that
something something and the Bell Jar.
That fits I think. Losing your hands or most of your senses.
Terminal illness? But aside from that I would agree, it's never a good idea. However, it not being a good idea doesn't translate into the people who choose it being worthy of ridicule. The human mind is complicated, and with some empathy or some experience in the matter it's not too difficult to understand how someone's thoughts could end up on suicide, and doing the mental gymnastics necessary to convince them self that it's a Good Idea.
It consists of a guy who doesn't understand depression telling you to stop being sad! IT'S BRILLIANT!
Strangely enough, if anyone in the media or anywhere else read this essay, they'd know there is a reason and this guy gave it pretty early on in his essay:
"Challenging every living value by willing death is how I will test this question and how I will test this question is the experiment in nihilism."
He's literally testing the philosophical limits of nihilism and he did it by suicide. This isn't a typical suicide, it's an experiment by a crazy person who reasoned himself into it.
Nah. There are all sorts of reasons for suicide, some more justifiable than others, some undoubtedly related to mental illness, some informed by cultural values, some just related to having a long, shitty spot in your life that you could probably get past.
Getting mad at suicides does absolutely no good for someone contemplating it or who had a suicide attempt, and it's absurd to get mad at someone who actually offed them self, in the long run. Though getting mad at a dude who committed suicide can be an important part in getting past it for his friends and family.
GoFund The Portland Trans Pride March, or Show It To People, or Else!
i guess i don't think of being a vegetable as suicide, since you're already dead (i think). But yeah my wife has instructions to pull the plug if that happens.
a life of adventure behind me
and if i get to be like 200 and like that, I'd probably see death as being the next adventure, and I'll probably be okay with it then
your priorities are fucked if it's some kinda blame game
i'll take ten