Writing a paper on D&D (Solved, can be locked)

ShinyRedKnight

I have a history of games class in which we all have to write a paper that basically develops over the entire course on a specific game. I got Dungeons and Dragons as my topic.

Now I have always enjoyed what Dungeons and Dragons resulted in; the books, video games, etc. I have always wanted to play as well, but never got a chance due to where I lived.

However, now when I have a access to a car and absolutely need to the play the game for a grade (the course fulfills a requirement, the paper is about 60% of the grade) I can't find any way to play.

All the places that hold games do so on Wednesday, when I have classes from 9-9, and none of my friends or family seem to be willing to help. I know my friends and family aren't as nerdy as me... but I thought I could get some help considering its a grade. That doesn't seem likely.

My number one concern is being able to play the game and conveying the general feel of the game. I would be more than happy to play solo, but how would I do that and what would I miss that needs to be covered in the paper?

I was looking at buying the red box before I got the assignment to play the game at least for myself, would it be useful in helping me write about the experience even if I only play it solo?

Another issue I have is getting my hands on the original rules. I can do some googling and the teacher may help with that as well, but any advice here is welcome also.

Thanks a TON for ANY help.

fadingathedges

You could play like this. The CF forum in general is a good resource for you I would think. You may even be able to get into a game there, but I'm not sure what your time window is like... they aren't exactly always starting.

You could just go into your FLGS and see if they have an open game night.

Tomanta

It is hard to "play" solo. You could simulate the combat part, but there is a huge social aspect that you just miss out on.

Could you organize a game with some of your classmates? If necessary maybe your teacher will allow a small bit of extra credit for participants. Alternatively, there are places to play online including our own Critical Failures forum. Play-by-post is probably too slow for your needs but sometimes there are games on things like Maptools.

ShinyRedKnight

I don't think I 'll be able to organize anything with fellow students. Many of them have game topics in which simply tracking down the game will take up tons of time. As well... quite a few of them took the class thinking its an easy A without any interest in games.

Time is also an issue, I commute to classes about an hour one way.

The final paper should be due in November.... but yesterday he announced the due date for the rough draft is next week, its worth about 120 points, where as the total points possible before that is 80...

I'm missing the social aspects for sure. However, the class and paper is supposed to be about core game mechanics specifically. Like how does the use of a complex die rolling system effect randomness and how do the skill modifiers balance that out.

I know that planning a strategy with living humans would be a part of the core mechanics and the social aspect alike, but that is something I think I understand simply due to years of mmos in terms of pvp and raids.

My main worry is being able to describe the mechanics of the game in terms of moving, random factors, rewards, and balancing issues that come directly from the set rules without the effect of the players themselves. Its like trying to understand the science of the rule mechanics.

wogi

ok, this might be super easy- or kind of difficult.

Does your school have clubs of any sort?
Every school I've gone to has had a Chess&Games group in some form or another, and they always had an RPG of some kind going on. If you can track those guys down, and explain your situation, you might be able to get in on a weekend session. I think that would be ideal, since you'd be jumping in with a group already used to the mechanic, with a well built social atmosphere (which is like... 60% of the experience)

MMOs are a pretty different feel from table-top games. Typically, there's a lot more desire to go do things in MMOs, which doesn't necessarily happen in table-top.

see317

Don't know if it would work or not for you, but DDO is free to play.
You can watch the combat spam to see the random number generator. Pretty sure it uses the 3.5 ruleset though which may be a problem if you're looking specifically for a classic D&D game.

If you have a FLGS with a bulletin board, maybe put up an announcement that you're looking for a game along with what time's you'd be available?

It's possible your school has some gaming clubs that meet on nights that you have open that you could look into.

Voro

Er, if you're going to use one of the games as an example of the mechanics, then I would recommend the Temple of Elemental Evil. It was rushed out and badly butchered by Hasbro's late demands, but it is the most faithful adaptation of the combat rules (it uses 3.5). I believe the old SSI Gold Box games would be the most accurate for 2nd Ed. AD&D.

As for the social aspect, would it work to use the Penny-Arcade podcasts as a reference? They're not perfect, but they would at least illustrate players being introduced to D&D for the first time. Perhaps your professor would accept those for the rough draft in place of an actual session.

ShinyRedKnight

I did look up the events at my school. Sadly the first chance they have for a board game day is way after my initial draft's due date.

The reason I would like to know if the is red box specifically is a good place to go is because I the game rule books themselves are one of the sources. Like I said, I believe I can get my hands on older rules to an extant at least, but I also need to show the changes of core game mechanics, or lack of, compare dto the game as it is today.

Since I also need to go through the game mechanics as they are now first hand, I thought the red box would provide both that and a view on the current state of the mechanics.

UncleSporky

I suggest listening to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts, they will help give you a feel for the game quite a bit! Most of them weren't very familiar with the game, so it's a pretty good introduction to how a game plays out (though relatively poor for mechanics; you don't know what they're looking at).

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20080530

For specific mechanics, it won't hurt to buy something like the red box for examination. Character creation is actually a short choose-your-own-adventure that leads you through some aspects of the game.

But the red box is a slightly dumbed down version of D&D 4th edition, which is vastly different from earlier versions of the game (in my opinion). It is more heavily based on good game design, balance, strict and specific rules, while older versions lean more towards role playing and simulation, not all classes are created equally.

ShinyRedKnight

Voro wrote: »

Er, if you're going to use one of the games as an example of the mechanics, then I would recommend the Temple of Elemental Evil. It was rushed out and badly butchered by Hasbro's late demands, but it is the most faithful adaptation of the combat rules (it uses 3.5). I believe the old SSI Gold Box games would be the most accurate for 2nd Ed. AD&D.

As for the social aspect, would it work to use the Penny-Arcade podcasts as a reference? They're not perfect, but they would at least illustrate players being introduced to D&D for the first time. Perhaps your professor would accept those for the rough draft in place of an actual session.

Ah the penny-arcade pod casts would be perfect!

I believe I may be able to get my hands on Temple of Elemental Evil. Could I show it as one of the transitions the mechanics went through between the very first release of D&D and the latest edition (4th/essentials)?

Kistra

Posting your location might help you find a group. I have found all my gaming groups/people by posting in the D&D Discussion thread in the Critical Failures forum or on the official WOTC forums. You probably want to check out the WOTC forums anyways as there are posts discussing a lot of analysis you are talking about and some posts by the designers discussing why they made certain design choices.

In terms of getting a feel for playing D&D, if you can't find a group (or can't find one fast enough) you might consider listening to the Penny Arcade D&D podcast. Basically they just record game sessions, the first two seasons are available here:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/AcqInc

EDIT: Apparently I am very slow at googling the podcasts :P

ShinyRedKnight

UncleSporky wrote: »

I suggest listening to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts, they will help give you a feel for the game quite a bit! Most of them weren't very familiar with the game, so it's a pretty good introduction to how a game plays out (though relatively poor for mechanics; you don't know what they're looking at).

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20080530

For specific mechanics, it won't hurt to buy something like the red box for examination. Character creation is actually a short choose-your-own-adventure that leads you through some aspects of the game.

But the red box is a slightly dumbed down version of D&D 4th edition, which is vastly different from earlier versions of the game (in my opinion). It is more heavily based on good game design, balance, strict and specific rules, while older versions lean more towards role playing and simulation, not all classes are created equally.

Awesome link, thanks!

Thanks for mentioning the change between the focus of the games between the older versions and the latest release. I have to show as much as possible on the mechanics fully, with D&D the changing mechanics would be especially important. I'm certainly gonna try to show the change in focus as perhaps a part of the change in mechanics, with your legal permission of course

kuhlmeye

I was going to suggest looking at the SRD (system reference document) as a way to get an idea as to the rules. It appears, however, that the 4E SRD is not at all similar to the older SRD's.

Speaking of, you might take a look at the D20 SRD, as it is the OGL version of the 3E rules, and 4E is modeled off of this.

Tomanta

If you are concerned about mechanics: there are huge differences between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th edition. In addition to a red box and Temple of Elemental Evil (3rd) you may want to pick up on one of the Infinity Engine games (Baldurs Gate/Icewind Dale/Planescape: Torment) for a look at 2nd.

They are all very different games.

Solar

Just a specific thing which you might find interesting and worth putting into your game, which I have noticed about tabletop roleplaying.

In most game formats, the rules are hard. If you play a Card Game like Magic: The Gathering or a Wargame like Warhammer or a boardgame like Risk or a computer game like Call of Duty then every form of interaction you have in the game is basically defined by the rules. Sure skill is involved but the effect of what buttons you press/pieces you move/cards you play is defined and really that is your only way of actually doing anything. In risk you want to capture somewhere you gotta send in your armies etc.

In DnD and other RPGs these rules also exist, but there are ways around them. Not all groups do this, but many do, where you roleplay covnersations without rolling any dice at all. It;s a bit of a contentious issue but there is it, and it allows you to do one thing which other games don't which is influence how things work by going outside the rules and simply talking to an NPC. You can win a conflict without rolling dice. You can interact without having to use a set device made by the game.

Now other games sometimes can do this, though it is rare. But RPGs are games where you can often and regularly do this without too much problem. It's just something that you might be interested in you may have missed if you never actually play a game with a group for some time.

Hope I helped.

Voro

ShinyRedKnight wrote: »

Voro wrote: »

Er, if you're going to use one of the games as an example of the mechanics, then I would recommend the Temple of Elemental Evil. It was rushed out and badly butchered by Hasbro's late demands, but it is the most faithful adaptation of the combat rules (it uses 3.5). I believe the old SSI Gold Box games would be the most accurate for 2nd Ed. AD&D.

As for the social aspect, would it work to use the Penny-Arcade podcasts as a reference? They're not perfect, but they would at least illustrate players being introduced to D&D for the first time. Perhaps your professor would accept those for the rough draft in place of an actual session.

Ah the penny-arcade pod casts would be perfect!

I believe I may be able to get my hands on Temple of Elemental Evil. Could I show it as one of the transitions the mechanics went through between the very first release of D&D and the latest edition (4th/essentials)?

Yes, you could definitely use it to show a transition. I can't remember how verbose the combat log was, but it will certainly show the differences in character creation and the addition of combat mechanics like attacks of opportunity (which didn't exist in 2nd Ed. AD&D). Be sure to look up the Circle of Eight if you get this, as they had many unofficial patches to fix bugs and re-enable content.

4th Edition doesn't have any video game counterparts yet, but it does have the Character Builder. It's free to use for level 1-3 characters, and it will make character creation much easier if you're going to run a playtest of the rules on your own.

Edit: I almost forgot. If you want a good example of how strict use of game mechanics without DM intervention can break the game, then behold: Pun-Pun.

Tomanta

Solar wrote: »

Just a specific thing which you might find interesting and worth putting into your game, which I have noticed about tabletop roleplaying.

In most game formats, the rules are hard. If you play a Card Game like Magic: The Gathering or a Wargame like Warhammer or a boardgame like Risk or a computer game like Call of Duty then every form of interaction you have in the game is basically defined by the rules. Sure skill is involved but the effect of what buttons you press/pieces you move/cards you play is defined and really that is your only way of actually doing anything. In risk you want to capture somewhere you gotta send in your armies etc.

In DnD and other RPGs these rules also exist, but there are ways around them. Not all groups do this, but many do, where you roleplay covnersations without rolling any dice at all. It;s a bit of a contentious issue but there is it, and it allows you to do one thing which other games don't which is influence how things work by going outside the rules and simply talking to an NPC. You can win a conflict without rolling dice. You can interact without having to use a set device made by the game.

Now other games sometimes can do this, though it is rare. But RPGs are games where you can often and regularly do this without too much problem. It's just something that you might be interested in you may have missed if you never actually play a game with a group for some time.

Hope I helped.

It is easy to underestimate the social component. I played in a session once where I think we rolled dice just once the entire night and that was to see which PC won a drinking game. (It was the fairy, of all things!).

Something else (related) that sets RPGs apart from other games: There is also not a defined win condition. Generally the group has a task they are trying to complete or personal goals, but if they fail they haven't necessarily "lost" (although in some circumstances the game may be over).

Hahnsoo1

If you are writing specifically about the history of the game, you probably should look into the evolution of tabletop wargaming to the prototyping of the Dungeons and Dragons game we have today. It started out as a rules set for a game called Chainmail (by Gary Gygax and Arneson):
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/chainmail.html

And proceeded with a Fantasy supplement that added elves and wizards and such that eventually became Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons broke away from the hard and set rules of tabletop wargaming (which is pure combat) into a roleplaying game, and that's what makes it different (as stated by other forumers above me).

We are coming dangerously close to doing your homework for you, though, so I'll leave it at that.

ShinyRedKnight

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

If you are writing specifically about the history of the game, you probably should look into the evolution of tabletop wargaming to the prototyping of the Dungeons and Dragons game we have today. It started out as a rules set for a game called Chainmail (by Gary Gygax and Arneson):
http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/chainmail.html

And proceeded with a Fantasy supplement that added elves and wizards and such that eventually became Dungeons and Dragons. Dungeons and Dragons broke away from the hard and set rules of tabletop wargaming (which is pure combat) into a roleplaying game, and that's what makes it different (as stated by other forumers above me).

We are coming dangerously close to doing your homework for you, though, so I'll leave it at that.

Yeah you guys have done waaay more than any other person I know would've. And I thank you guys for this awesome help! I think I can set out from here though.

I'll try to show a transition in game mechanics from growth out of Chainmail, all the way to the most recent release of Essentials. I'll try to highlight key concepts as they relate to the focus of the game so I don't end up summerizing the game updates.

I'll have a section for the social aspect for which I'll use the podcasts. The aspects of having long time D&D players playing with a first timer like Gabe will give a great range of views on the social aspect.

Of course I'll give some background on the cultural influence and reception for which I have found sources.

Again, thanks a ton for the great help everyone!

Rhesus Positive

Would it help, at least for the final draft, to strike a deal with other classmates to have a mutual night of gaming? I imagine that there are people who are in the same boat regarding their games' social aspect, even if at the moment they're not interested because they just want to squeeze out a first draft. Having a night where you run a combat and skill challenge in exchange for a few rounds of their games might be a good way to get a better feel of the games in question.

Tofystedeth

ShinyRedKnight wrote: »

UncleSporky wrote: »

I suggest listening to the Penny Arcade D&D podcasts, they will help give you a feel for the game quite a bit! Most of them weren't very familiar with the game, so it's a pretty good introduction to how a game plays out (though relatively poor for mechanics; you don't know what they're looking at).

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20080530

For specific mechanics, it won't hurt to buy something like the red box for examination. Character creation is actually a short choose-your-own-adventure that leads you through some aspects of the game.

But the red box is a slightly dumbed down version of D&D 4th edition, which is vastly different from earlier versions of the game (in my opinion). It is more heavily based on good game design, balance, strict and specific rules, while older versions lean more towards role playing and simulation, not all classes are created equally.

Awesome link, thanks!

Thanks for mentioning the change between the focus of the games between the older versions and the latest release. I have to show as much as possible on the mechanics fully, with D&D the changing mechanics would be especially important. I'm certainly gonna try to show the change in focus as perhaps a part of the change in mechanics, with your legal permission of course

Horseshoe in the Critical Failures forum has a couple threads where he goes through and picks out some of the stuff from older versions of D&D that seems ridiculous now, but was how things were back then.
It's really handy for seeing how much has changed in the last 25ish years of D&D.
Unearthed Arcana, 1989
Monster Manual II, 1983
He's got pictures and stuff so you can see some of the actual book contents instead of just his (hilarious) commentary.

ShinyRedKnight

After talking around a bit today, I was able to get a d20 game at least within a week. May not be D&D exactly, but its one step closer. As well, I will be able to borrow some of the earliest editions of D&D books.

I panicked when I saw the early date for the earl draft (well the point value of it really) but everything seems to have come together.

wogi

Awesome.
Also - most d20 games are fairly similar. The latest edition of D&D is a little different, but for the most part, its close enough.

Sir Headless VII

Also Gabe just posted like 2 hours of videos of them playing d&d at PAX on the front page.

ShinyRedKnight

Alrighty, I'm pretty confident in putting everything together now.

Thanks all!