corrupters are an all around bad unit. I wish broodlords morphed from mutas.
They facerape colossi.
and they are pretty useful against phoenix too. better than mutas at least.
what air-to-air unit is the phoenix better than?
Phoenix are abusive against mutas (and completely shut down ravens/banshees). They do surprising well against vikings too. A phoenix will actually beat a viking at even upgrade levels, while being twice as fast and way more flexible. (In practice though, viking hunting isn't viable due to terran ground support.) If it weren't for reactors and how much more gas intensive protoss is, I'd say that phoenixes are strictly superior to vikings.
The bug with them really, really sucks though.
Edit: Put another way, if terrans had phoenix instead of vikings, every other race would be completely boned.
Every other race is already completely boned against terran :-)
I keep hearing that Phoenix shut down mutas, but I haven't seen it in action. And I didnt think that phoenix's would beat vikings straight up... I mean, that would make them the strongest light anti-air, air unit in the game, and it just doesn't feel that way, although, i barely use them, and have often been wrong before.
(and ravens/banshees/broodlords dont count - they can't shoot back)
Phoenix can literally go 2-on-1 against mutas and win. Like, a fight of 6 phoenixes vs 10 mutas means the mutas need to GTFO and pray backup can get there in time. The biggest drawback to phoenixes is the freaking stargate, which many view as the weakest path for protoss. It also doesn't help that phoenixes come out of the same building as VOIDRAYS, which have the "oh shit, didn't expect that now I lose!" ability.
Phoenixes don't win games; they help you not lose them. They shut down every type of harassment (except maybe zergling runbys). And they let you scout and harass. Essentially, they contract the enemies play field to the very narrow option of trying to smash their army against your army. The only downside is that if you're getting phoenixes, their army will be bigger and more smashy than yours.
but yeah phoenixes EAT mutas alive, they're better in literally every conceivable way: faster moving, fire while moving, more than double muta's damage, lower attack cooldown, 1 more range. phoenixes shut mutas down almost as badly as thors do--at least you can sometimes out micro the thors (though with marine support you're fucked).
There's some micro things you can do to mitigate phoenix play. For example, you can feign retreat and then 180 back into the chasing phoenix ball which is useful if you need to get a last hit on a near-dead phoenix or if you just need to force an air confrontation.
But yeah, with equal production phoenixes will dominate air over mutas. This doesn't stop you from delay your tech into mutas to deter the toss player from trying to match you in phoenix count, however.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
corrupters are an all around bad unit. I wish broodlords morphed from mutas.
They facerape colossi.
and they are pretty useful against phoenix too. better than mutas at least.
what air-to-air unit is the phoenix better than?
Phoenix are abusive against mutas (and completely shut down ravens/banshees). They do surprising well against vikings too. A phoenix will actually beat a viking at even upgrade levels, while being twice as fast and way more flexible. (In practice though, viking hunting isn't viable due to terran ground support.) If it weren't for reactors and how much more gas intensive protoss is, I'd say that phoenixes are strictly superior to vikings.
The bug with them really, really sucks though.
Edit: Put another way, if terrans had phoenix instead of vikings, every other race would be completely boned.
Every other race is already completely boned against terran :-)
I keep hearing that Phoenix shut down mutas, but I haven't seen it in action. And I didnt think that phoenix's would beat vikings straight up... I mean, that would make them the strongest light anti-air, air unit in the game, and it just doesn't feel that way, although, i barely use them, and have often been wrong before.
(and ravens/banshees/broodlords dont count - they can't shoot back)
Phoenix can literally go 2-on-1 against mutas and win. Like, a fight of 6 phoenixes vs 10 mutas means the mutas need to GTFO and pray backup can get there in time. The biggest drawback to phoenixes is the freaking stargate, which many view as the weakest path for protoss. It also doesn't help that phoenixes come out of the same building as VOIDRAYS, which have the "oh shit, didn't expect that now I lose!" ability.
Phoenixes don't win games; they help you not lose them. They shut down every type of harassment (except maybe zergling runbys). And they let you scout and harass. Essentially, they contract the enemies play field to the very narrow option of trying to smash their army against your army. The only downside is that if you're getting phoenixes, their army will be bigger and more smashy than yours.
I've heard that if you can micro the phoenixes extremely well, you can play skeet shooting supporting a majority stalker army...
I've heard good things, never been able to do them - i mean, i've built 4 and went peon harassing... but thats about my experience. And yes, when your two choices are Phoenixes, and LOLRays (which are a surprisingly good kicker to a push army), well, the VRs win the click every time.
Oh I know you're not serious Joe, but you seem to spend a lot of time thinking and talking about strategies and what supposedly works and doesn't, when you could just jump on and macro well and win so many games if you aren't in Diamond.
I have never played Protoss (in multi anyway) and I'm genuinely curious how I'd do against Bronze etc just to prove how important macro is. Maybe I should use 1 of my trials that came with the game :P
Oh I know you're not serious Joe, but you seem to spend a lot of time thinking and talking about strategies and what supposedly works and doesn't, when you could just jump on and macro well and win so many games if you aren't in Diamond.
I have never played Protoss (in multi anyway) and I'm genuinely curious how I'd do against Bronze etc just to prove how important macro is. Maybe I should use 1 of my trials that came with the game :P
hey man, look, and please don't take this as snark, i'm working on my macro. its much, much improved, though still needs some more work (doesn't everyones?). i don't need any more demonstrations on the importance of it, i get it.
as for spending my time... i've got way too much of it on my hands... look at the number of games played for an example... though that extra extra time is going away shortly.
My main goal in life now is to see Joe get promoted. It is one of the first things I check when i read this thread. I believe in you Joe. Make us proud!
I long for the day where I move up to diamond, but right now I seem to be stuck right where I should be in platinum. I'm almost positive that if I picked a race I could move up pretty easily, but where's the fun in that?
My main goal in life now is to see Joe get promoted. It is one of the first things I check when i read this thread. I believe in you Joe. Make us proud!
thanks.
i think that you're going to be waiting for a ladder reset, though :-)
I suspect that my history in 1v1 is haunting me, and i'm a statistical outlier, and poorly handled by the system.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I can't understand how you possibly can't have been promoted, unless (and I don't mean this to be offensive) you are really that terrible. Shit, I got promoted to Silver, and I'm fucking horribad.
My main goal in life now is to see Joe get promoted. It is one of the first things I check when i read this thread. I believe in you Joe. Make us proud!
thanks.
i think that you're going to be waiting for a ladder reset, though :-)
I suspect that my history in 1v1 is haunting me, and i'm a statistical outlier, and poorly handled by the system.
How often are you going up against "Opponent heavily favored"?
I'm thinking Infestors would be really good for funday monday, since they can create a makeshift army on the spot, are stealthed, and have an AOE root.
trolling your team in a 4v4: the pastime of champions
i just mass expand and go ghost and marine and literally everyone in the game complains about it
in the end i outscored the 'diamond' player' who claimed i was in bronze
Yeah! Since Day9 started going on about how fun random 4v4 is I tried about 10 games going only mass marine, and because it's instinct to expand tons I just send thousands and thousands of spare gas and minerals to my team mates. They are weak to mass colossus though It's not as fun as the makes it out to be though too many whiney players.
trolling your team in a 4v4: the pastime of champions
i just mass expand and go ghost and marine and literally everyone in the game complains about it
in the end i outscored the 'diamond' player' who claimed i was in bronze
Yeah! Since Day9 started going on about how fun random 4v4 is I tried about 10 games going only mass marine, and because it's instinct to expand tons I just send thousands and thousands of spare gas and minerals to my team mates. They are weak to mass colossus though It's not as fun as the makes it out to be though too many whiney players.
Random 3v3 is where it's at. You get small micro games in the big game but you're still not too many players to do anything decent.
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
trolling your team in a 4v4: the pastime of champions
i just mass expand and go ghost and marine and literally everyone in the game complains about it
in the end i outscored the 'diamond' player' who claimed i was in bronze
Yeah! Since Day9 started going on about how fun random 4v4 is I tried about 10 games going only mass marine, and because it's instinct to expand tons I just send thousands and thousands of spare gas and minerals to my team mates. They are weak to mass colossus though It's not as fun as the makes it out to be though too many whiney players.
I just leave when this starts to happen. Winning or losing. I can't stand it when teammates start playing battlefield commander when they have no idea what the hell they are doing. I wouldn't mind if it was a polite suggestions, but almost every random 4v4 game I have played is.. "OMMMMG! YOU <expletive> <racial slur> MAKE CANNONS AND SPAM VOID RAYS!" I imagine voice chat in random 4v4 is equivalent to Xbox Live.
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
4gate is almost autowin if you do it half decently
voidray cheese wins, or transitions into a win another 70% of the time
take your pick
SuMa.Lustre on
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I was on Lost Temple last night, scouted adjacent positions, and my opponent sent his scouting Overlord just in time for it to let me charge my first Voidray
I was on Lost Temple last night, scouted adjacent positions, and my opponent sent his scouting Overlord just in time for it to let me charge my first Voidray
i've actually gotten my gamesense down to where i can send my overlord in when they should be popping down the stargate
it's the proxy gates that get me still, sometimes
long live extra queens against suspicious players, though
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
In my PvZ games I will usually try to just hold off the first attack and then use that as a point to push out with my gateway units. If you're on a map with a small ramp, making a choke with your gateway and leaving 1 block open for a zealot is a great way to stop early zerglings. Having a sentry to cut the incoming army in half is a great way to hold back 5RR. Check the Liquidpedia for advise on this.
I really dont like to use colossi for my PvZ games as they are just walking targets. If you have decent enough micro you should lean towards using High Templar and storm into Archons. The thing here is to make sure you engage the zerg ground army when they're on a ramp or in a simiarly terrained choke.
Meh, I guess Ill just try some 4-gate. It seems about right since if you give a Zerg enough time to get an expand up and his macro going then he's just going to overwhelm you. Might as well overwhelm him before that point.
Edit: Yeah, my micro caps out at about 80-100 APM. I have to win with macro, cheese, or hidden tech.
Meh, I guess Ill just try some 4-gate. It seems about right since if you give a Zerg enough time to get an expand up and his macro going then he's just going to overwhelm you. Might as well overwhelm him before that point.
Edit: Yeah, my micro caps out at about 80-100 APM. I have to win with macro, cheese, or hidden tech.
The standard early timing windows revolving around 4-gate, 3-gate robo, 2-gate robo/expand, fast phoenix all work well against zerg and keep them honest. Against most zerg, you'll be at your most vulnerable in the lull after this push because they'll have hydralisk or mutas up and running. In particular, a hydralisking zerg has a reasonable timing window between your initial push and your first colo or templar coming out (especially if they have overseers out to delay production with contaminate).
If you can survive this push, the game swings back in your favor in a big way with a colo or templar out to handle mass hydra/muta numbers. At this point, you can push with a reasonable army to keep his economy and tech down, or even secure the win immediately.
You can also go for the more korean-esque double pylon/cannon contain that will secure you an economic advantage as zerg have no cost-effective way to break the contain to expand.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
My main goal in life now is to see Joe get promoted. It is one of the first things I check when i read this thread. I believe in you Joe. Make us proud!
thanks.
i think that you're going to be waiting for a ladder reset, though :-)
I suspect that my history in 1v1 is haunting me, and i'm a statistical outlier, and poorly handled by the system.
How often are you going up against "Opponent heavily favored"?
very rarely, but i'm still getting silver golds and plats. I'm usually at "Even Teams", no matter the level i face. I can only tell by number of points and then checking profile after game.
I *really* wish that it would show league before you play.
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
4gate is almost autowin if you do it half decently
voidray cheese wins, or transitions into a win another 70% of the time
take your pick
i've been going 3 gate robo lately, and my timing is "when the first or second immortal pops", depending on how i feel. 2 immortals with gateway units, and an observer for high ground spotting is a pretty nasty first push.
ZvP I feel most vulnerable when my 2nd hatch has popped and I'm trying to drone at it. A push with a decent number of gateway units (Zealot heavy) can be kind of nasty to hold off if I start making units too late. I seem to be having more success of late by staying on tier 1 units for longer and just massing lings with a handful of roaches thrown in with spine crawlers and Queens for support.
Once I hold off that first push I feel fairly confident and safe to get up a third and push with a hydra/roach army since hydras just destroy gateway units. After that I should stay ahead of the Protoss if I am playing well and my victory is just a matter of time.
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
4gate is almost autowin if you do it half decently
voidray cheese wins, or transitions into a win another 70% of the time
take your pick
i've been going 3 gate robo lately, and my timing is "when the first or second immortal pops", depending on how i feel. 2 immortals with gateway units, and an observer for high ground spotting is a pretty nasty first push.
i've gotten to the point where i never ever attack unless i've scouted with an obs. i've lost too many games by pushing and losing on the opponents turf and then getting countered to hell. if they have a stronger army, i'll mass some more units asap or maybe expand. a handful of stalkers, zealots, and one sentry can pretty much fight off any push so waiting for them to attack and playing D and countering usually works in my favor.
on a different note, i've said this before but walling with cannons and rushing VRs is WAY too effective on scrap station in PvP. Wall off, rush to two starports, pump VRs till about 5 or 6, make zealots with spare mins since you'll be gas reliant for most of it, attack with a small zealot force at first to draw any stalkers away from their nexus, charge VRs, WIN.
I think next time I play PvP I want to try to go nothing but chargelots and pheonix...
Fly around, pickup any immortals, and take out any colossi, and then charge in and stab stab stab!
my biggest problem with going heavy air is that i feel naked without a robo/obs and i don't know the timing well enough to not get raped with an early push.
plus, phoenixes are too expensive for me for how fragile they feel and how slow they build. i wish they either had 150 health, cost 50 less min, or simply built 10-15 seconds faster.
General question. My PvZ sucks, mainly because it is near impossible to CR a Zerg. So what are some good early timing windows vs Zerg? I mostly get stuck in a macro at base, repel early lings, macro units/expand, repel mutas, get overwhelmed by huge Zerg force kind of game.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
4gate is almost autowin if you do it half decently
voidray cheese wins, or transitions into a win another 70% of the time
take your pick
i've been going 3 gate robo lately, and my timing is "when the first or second immortal pops", depending on how i feel. 2 immortals with gateway units, and an observer for high ground spotting is a pretty nasty first push.
i've gotten to the point where i never ever attack unless i've scouted with an obs. i've lost too many games by pushing and losing on the opponents turf and then getting countered to hell. if they have a stronger army, i'll mass some more units asap or maybe expand. a handful of stalkers, zealots, and one sentry can pretty much fight off any push so waiting for them to attack and playing D and countering usually works in my favor.
on a different note, i've said this before but walling with cannons and rushing VRs is WAY too effective on scrap station. Wall off, rush to two starports, pump VRs till about 5 or 6, make zealots with spare mins since you'll be gas reliant for most of it, attack with a small zealot force at first to draw any stalkers away from their nexus, charge VRs, WIN.
I always feel like a tool though when I do it...
you should try it on desert oasis, too :-) Its even more stupid.
i've found that you can send 3 VRs, with the 4th on the way (at least half done), and waypoint the rest, and thats usually GG. charge on the refineries, especially on oasis, as there is almost no way that they have a force big enough smushed into that corner to counter you. Its a little tougher approaching on scrap, but still, charge on the refineries, then look for juicy targets.
So I grabbed my brother who only recently got into SC2 after a huge hiatus from RTS games- though he has a lot of history in them- and a random friend of mine from Uni or WoW or something and we did some funday monday 3v3. Neither of them watch day9, so I had to explain it (though my brother is getting interested, which is great!). Of course, both of them are pretty, well, adverage bronze players.
We did a few games trying out some different combos to see what was fun/could actually work. Then we ran into a game with a guy who watches day9 and he suggested roach/immortal/BC. We tried that. Lost one game and then won THREE in a row. All this after midnight, tired as all hell.
I'm going to send one in just for giggles, even if it is very low skill level games, and I might post all three here later. Either way, it was a blast!
Posts
Phoenix can literally go 2-on-1 against mutas and win. Like, a fight of 6 phoenixes vs 10 mutas means the mutas need to GTFO and pray backup can get there in time. The biggest drawback to phoenixes is the freaking stargate, which many view as the weakest path for protoss. It also doesn't help that phoenixes come out of the same building as VOIDRAYS, which have the "oh shit, didn't expect that now I lose!" ability.
Phoenixes don't win games; they help you not lose them. They shut down every type of harassment (except maybe zergling runbys). And they let you scout and harass. Essentially, they contract the enemies play field to the very narrow option of trying to smash their army against your army. The only downside is that if you're getting phoenixes, their army will be bigger and more smashy than yours.
There's some micro things you can do to mitigate phoenix play. For example, you can feign retreat and then 180 back into the chasing phoenix ball which is useful if you need to get a last hit on a near-dead phoenix or if you just need to force an air confrontation.
But yeah, with equal production phoenixes will dominate air over mutas. This doesn't stop you from delay your tech into mutas to deter the toss player from trying to match you in phoenix count, however.
I've heard that if you can micro the phoenixes extremely well, you can play skeet shooting supporting a majority stalker army...
I've heard good things, never been able to do them - i mean, i've built 4 and went peon harassing... but thats about my experience. And yes, when your two choices are Phoenixes, and LOLRays (which are a surprisingly good kicker to a push army), well, the VRs win the click every time.
Joe's Stream.
I have never played Protoss (in multi anyway) and I'm genuinely curious how I'd do against Bronze etc just to prove how important macro is. Maybe I should use 1 of my trials that came with the game :P
hey man, look, and please don't take this as snark, i'm working on my macro. its much, much improved, though still needs some more work (doesn't everyones?). i don't need any more demonstrations on the importance of it, i get it.
as for spending my time... i've got way too much of it on my hands... look at the number of games played for an example... though that extra extra time is going away shortly.
Joe's Stream.
thanks.
i think that you're going to be waiting for a ladder reset, though :-)
I suspect that my history in 1v1 is haunting me, and i'm a statistical outlier, and poorly handled by the system.
Joe's Stream.
How often are you going up against "Opponent heavily favored"?
i just mass expand and go ghost and marine and literally everyone in the game complains about it
in the end i outscored the 'diamond' player' who claimed i was in bronze
Yeah! Since Day9 started going on about how fun random 4v4 is I tried about 10 games going only mass marine, and because it's instinct to expand tons I just send thousands and thousands of spare gas and minerals to my team mates. They are weak to mass colossus though
Random 3v3 is where it's at. You get small micro games in the big game but you're still not too many players to do anything decent.
Im thinking 2gate robo, but I never know when the "right" time for the attack is. First Colossus? Before that? I know day9 is always like, "If you dont know if you should attack, you should attack" but Id be curious to hear from those Protoss that own Zerg or Zergs that feel weak about Protoss where the "weak spots" are.
I just leave when this starts to happen. Winning or losing. I can't stand it when teammates start playing battlefield commander when they have no idea what the hell they are doing. I wouldn't mind if it was a polite suggestions, but almost every random 4v4 game I have played is.. "OMMMMG! YOU <expletive> <racial slur> MAKE CANNONS AND SPAM VOID RAYS!" I imagine voice chat in random 4v4 is equivalent to Xbox Live.
4gate is almost autowin if you do it half decently
voidray cheese wins, or transitions into a win another 70% of the time
take your pick
i've actually gotten my gamesense down to where i can send my overlord in when they should be popping down the stargate
it's the proxy gates that get me still, sometimes
long live extra queens against suspicious players, though
In my PvZ games I will usually try to just hold off the first attack and then use that as a point to push out with my gateway units. If you're on a map with a small ramp, making a choke with your gateway and leaving 1 block open for a zealot is a great way to stop early zerglings. Having a sentry to cut the incoming army in half is a great way to hold back 5RR. Check the Liquidpedia for advise on this.
I really dont like to use colossi for my PvZ games as they are just walking targets. If you have decent enough micro you should lean towards using High Templar and storm into Archons. The thing here is to make sure you engage the zerg ground army when they're on a ramp or in a simiarly terrained choke.
Edit: Yeah, my micro caps out at about 80-100 APM. I have to win with macro, cheese, or hidden tech.
The standard early timing windows revolving around 4-gate, 3-gate robo, 2-gate robo/expand, fast phoenix all work well against zerg and keep them honest. Against most zerg, you'll be at your most vulnerable in the lull after this push because they'll have hydralisk or mutas up and running. In particular, a hydralisking zerg has a reasonable timing window between your initial push and your first colo or templar coming out (especially if they have overseers out to delay production with contaminate).
If you can survive this push, the game swings back in your favor in a big way with a colo or templar out to handle mass hydra/muta numbers. At this point, you can push with a reasonable army to keep his economy and tech down, or even secure the win immediately.
You can also go for the more korean-esque double pylon/cannon contain that will secure you an economic advantage as zerg have no cost-effective way to break the contain to expand.
very rarely, but i'm still getting silver golds and plats. I'm usually at "Even Teams", no matter the level i face. I can only tell by number of points and then checking profile after game.
I *really* wish that it would show league before you play.
Joe's Stream.
i've been going 3 gate robo lately, and my timing is "when the first or second immortal pops", depending on how i feel. 2 immortals with gateway units, and an observer for high ground spotting is a pretty nasty first push.
Joe's Stream.
http://challonge.com/tournament/signup/pcvo3gra7u
Once I hold off that first push I feel fairly confident and safe to get up a third and push with a hydra/roach army since hydras just destroy gateway units. After that I should stay ahead of the Protoss if I am playing well and my victory is just a matter of time.
Fly around, pickup any immortals, and take out any colossi, and then charge in and stab stab stab!
I see this working against Terran too, pick up tanks, stab stab stab.
Against Zerg? Kill Overseers, stab stab stab!
i've gotten to the point where i never ever attack unless i've scouted with an obs. i've lost too many games by pushing and losing on the opponents turf and then getting countered to hell. if they have a stronger army, i'll mass some more units asap or maybe expand. a handful of stalkers, zealots, and one sentry can pretty much fight off any push so waiting for them to attack and playing D and countering usually works in my favor.
on a different note, i've said this before but walling with cannons and rushing VRs is WAY too effective on scrap station in PvP. Wall off, rush to two starports, pump VRs till about 5 or 6, make zealots with spare mins since you'll be gas reliant for most of it, attack with a small zealot force at first to draw any stalkers away from their nexus, charge VRs, WIN.
I always feel like a tool though when I do it...
my biggest problem with going heavy air is that i feel naked without a robo/obs and i don't know the timing well enough to not get raped with an early push.
plus, phoenixes are too expensive for me for how fragile they feel and how slow they build. i wish they either had 150 health, cost 50 less min, or simply built 10-15 seconds faster.
you should try it on desert oasis, too :-) Its even more stupid.
i've found that you can send 3 VRs, with the 4th on the way (at least half done), and waypoint the rest, and thats usually GG. charge on the refineries, especially on oasis, as there is almost no way that they have a force big enough smushed into that corner to counter you. Its a little tougher approaching on scrap, but still, charge on the refineries, then look for juicy targets.
Joe's Stream.
We did a few games trying out some different combos to see what was fun/could actually work. Then we ran into a game with a guy who watches day9 and he suggested roach/immortal/BC. We tried that. Lost one game and then won THREE in a row. All this after midnight, tired as all hell.
I'm going to send one in just for giggles, even if it is very low skill level games, and I might post all three here later. Either way, it was a blast!
B.net: Kusanku
banshees are flying DTs that come out wayyy too fast.
Joe's Stream.