So what do you do, remove grapplers? And again, after you take out grapplers, do you start taking out all the boring chars too, like Sim or Blanka?
I'm exaggerating here of course. But at the same time, isn't this par for the course in FG's? That some chars will be boring/lame to play against? But does that make them less legitimate?
And again, I'm just throwing shit out, I empathize and disagree with Flash at the same time.
I think developers have a responsibility to tune fights to be fun, which I realize is very subjective. Some matchups are pretty boring no matter who you are, but fights I hate the most are Guile/Blanka/Zangief. Those fights are just based entirely on nonsense and quick moments that can decide the whole round.
I know some people must find those playstyles fun, but it's just...a chore. Playing the game should be fun.
Honestly, I think zoning and charge characters are the root of my dissatisfaction, which I realize is somewhat contradictory of me seeing how I main Chun (who plays the least like a charge character!) Both just lead to inherently defensive playstyles which tend to be low risk and capitalize on punishments, when risk and guessing games are what make fights interesting.
I'm beginning to get the hang of Adon I think. This is an odd feeling, I've never been serious about a character without a command grab before.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Sega reissued USB and PS2 versions of the pad a few years ago. I made sure to grab one of each real quick. The PS2 version is particularly rare these days. I never see it on eBay and whenever I do manage to find one on Yahoo Japan they usually go for insane prices, starting at around $50 and ending at over $100. The USB version is cheaper, but that's due to the prevalence of cheap Hong Kong knock-offs that seem to be all over the place now.
The reason I snapped all those pictures in the previous link was so that people on SRK could verify that their pads were legit.
So what do you do, remove grapplers? And again, after you take out grapplers, do you start taking out all the boring chars too, like Sim or Blanka?
I'm exaggerating here of course. But at the same time, isn't this par for the course in FG's? That some chars will be boring/lame to play against? But does that make them less legitimate?
And again, I'm just throwing shit out, I empathize and disagree with Flash at the same time.
I didn't suggest any of those. Like Fig said, it's a matter of options. When all my options get distilled to one or two choices I get very bored. You can argue that it's just like any other situation where you have to guess or predict your opponents next move...but the strategy is just boring.
edit: specifically against most grapplers. Want to see grapplers done in an exciting fashion? See KoF, Blazblue, Virtua Fighter.
So what do you do, remove grapplers? And again, after you take out grapplers, do you start taking out all the boring chars too, like Sim or Blanka?
I'm exaggerating here of course. But at the same time, isn't this par for the course in FG's? That some chars will be boring/lame to play against? But does that make them less legitimate?
And again, I'm just throwing shit out, I empathize and disagree with Flash at the same time.
I think developers have a responsibility to tune fights to be fun, which I realize is very subjective. Some matchups are pretty boring no matter who you are, but fights I hate the most are Guile/Blanka/Zangief. Those fights are just based entirely on nonsense and quick moments that can decide the whole round.
I know some people must find those playstyles fun, but it's just...a chore. Playing the game should be fun.
Honestly, I think zoning and charge characters are the root of my dissatisfaction, which I realize is somewhat contradictory of me seeing how I main Chun (who plays the least like a charge character!) Both just lead to inherently defensive playstyles which tend to be low risk and capitalize on punishments, when risk and guessing games are what make fights interesting.
it is funny that you play a zoning charge character, then, yeah :P
i really enjoy playing against a very solid zoning defense. i think that offense vs defense, rather than offense vs offense, is the most fun character matchup.
having a variety of play styles can only be a benefit to the game. the topology of a series of random matches of SFIV is pretty varied because the roster runs the gamut of blazing fast offense to long range, fully defensive zoning. i find it really interesting and stimulating to have to switch play styles so dramatically depending on matchups.
guile and zangief are usually some of my favourite matches. blanka is a stupid character though.
Evil Multifarious on
0
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I realize that it's entirely subjective, but I feel Chun's zoning is less bullshit than say, Guile or Sim, since her fireball is shittier than Guile and her normals don't have the range of Sim. Also, a lot of her normals, while good, are not all always good. It's more of a matchup by matchup basis on which normals to use, since a lot of her normals can be beaten out. I feel like Ryu even outzones her, anyone with a half decent fireball does.
She also has a lot better close range options than either character and a better aggressive game. Chun is a very balanced character playstyle wise, her low health is really what tends to make her zone/turtle a lot, and she can be the aggressor in some matches and the defender in others.
I realize that it's entirely subjective, but I feel Chun's zoning is less bullshit than say, Guile or Sim, since her fireball is shittier than Guile and her normals don't have the range of Sim. Also, a lot of her normals, while good, are not all always good. It's more of a matchup by matchup basis on which normals to use, since a lot of her normals can be beaten out.
She also has a lot better close range options than either character and a better aggressive game. Chun is a very balanced character playstyle wise, her low health is really what tends to make her zone/turtle a lot, and she can be the aggressor in some matches and the defender in others.
so do you not like playing against Dhalsim? i find Dhalsim to be a fairly weak character most of the time, or at least quite hard to use, but a good Dhalsim is a) unusual and exciting, b) a very interesting and different challenge to attack, and c) extremely rewarding when you finally get in and give him a thrashing.
it's also a pretty great concept - normal attacks almost acting as projectiles, while being vulnerable to attack.
i can see Guile being frustrating even if you're winning, because he's so simple as a defensive wall, but I think he's really interesting to fight. He just entirely closes off the horizontal axis for large chunks of time and distance, and forces you to approach very carefully. But where Guile players really display their skill is when they're defending against an attacker who's gotten in, and when they are on the attack themselves.
I like that guile forces me to think differently, and I like playing guile because i like the sense of control and trying to maintain control or wrest it from the hands of the other player.
Dhalsim probably wouldn't piss me off so much if I didn't play characters that have a tough time with zoning.
Edit: on the flip side, I would think he has a bitch of a time against rushdown like bison's. might seem like an easier fight for you if that's the case
Daebunz on
0
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I realize that it's entirely subjective, but I feel Chun's zoning is less bullshit than say, Guile or Sim, since her fireball is shittier than Guile and her normals don't have the range of Sim. Also, a lot of her normals, while good, are not all always good. It's more of a matchup by matchup basis on which normals to use, since a lot of her normals can be beaten out.
She also has a lot better close range options than either character and a better aggressive game. Chun is a very balanced character playstyle wise, her low health is really what tends to make her zone/turtle a lot, and she can be the aggressor in some matches and the defender in others.
so do you not like playing against Dhalsim? i find Dhalsim to be a fairly weak character most of the time, or at least quite hard to use, but a good Dhalsim is a) unusual and exciting, b) a very interesting and different challenge to attack, and c) extremely rewarding when you finally get in and give him a thrashing.
it's also a pretty great concept - normal attacks almost acting as projectiles, while being vulnerable to attack.
i can see Guile being frustrating even if you're winning, because he's so simple as a defensive wall, but I think he's really interesting to fight. He just entirely closes off the horizontal axis for large chunks of time and distance, and forces you to approach very carefully. But where Guile players really display their skill is when they're defending against an attacker who's gotten in, and when they are on the attack themselves.
I like that guile forces me to think differently, and I like playing guile because i like the sense of control and trying to maintain control or wrest it from the hands of the other player.
Dhalsim is more interesting to me because I feel like he requires a lot more...skill and variety to be good. A Guile can be annoying if he just knows how to time sonic booms well since his fireball recovers so fast it's hard to punish even when you get the right guess (a lot of blocked hasanshus), and then he's a total pushover inside. An aggressive Guile is pretty interesting, but I think I could count on one hand everytime I've encountered one.
And like you said, Sim is vulnerable when zoning, his fireballs can be dash ultra'd and you can focus his fierce. He requires a lot more thought. If Guile throws out a bad sonic boom from across the screen, there's nothing you can do.
Anyone who's played me knows I hate zoning and hate getting zoned out. But sometimes you have to do it. Although, I tend to get tired of it and start working my way in regardless.
do you have to buy the new costumes to see them when other people use them? a little thing popped up on me earlier saying "costume not purchased" or something to that affect
Well, it's one of those situations where it's "tough luck" imo.
Pretty much. The only time I bothered to switch characters was from cody to dudley, but that was only because I found him more rewarding and fun, despite having similar issues vs some characters. Having to play differently in certain scenarios was part of fighting games, last I checked.
I also like the idea of having a fallback character to handle some things the other cannot. I still like going back to cody to deal with blanka for example.
Why would you do that? The Dudley matchup feels almost as bad as boxer or Dhalsim.
Just finished reading Flash's rant, and I think he just needs a change of character for a while. I got bored playing Abel, and since I've switched to Guy the game is a lot more fun for me. Technically I guess Abel is much stronger than Guy, but I'm not on the level where those things really matter. Right now I feel far stronger with Guy than Abel, maybe the same thing will happen for him.
Personally, I don't find matches where I need to change my playstyle "lame", but I'm not a high level player in it to win it. For me, this game is fun when I'm playing with friends and smack talking it up (Get a mic Biz and Stoked!). I'm not sure I would ever want to play in big tournaments if that is the mindset that they foster. I enjoy having the "Who gives a shit?" attitude that I have about this game. If I ever got serious, I feel like all the love would be gone.
i think that offense vs defense, rather than offense vs offense, is the most fun character matchup.
I'm the complete opposite. I'm ALWAYS pushing the offensive and I love when my opponent is pushing back. It's like a big arm wrestling match sorta thing.
Bonus points if my opponent doesn't have a projectile.
do you have to buy the new costumes to see them when other people use them? a little thing popped up on me earlier saying "costume not purchased" or something to that affect
There's a free update you can download from the marketplace called the Ultra Catalog, get that and you should be good.
If anything Ryu needs to be removed from Street Fighter.
You know this would never happen
And it would be a bad idea
ryu IS street fighter.
Unfortunate but true. I mained Ryu from SF1 to SFA, but I was excited that the cast of SF3 was supposed to be entirely new. They acquiesced a bit, so I've come to accept that if we didn't get Ryu/Ken we'd get an identical but lamer clone.
i think that offense vs defense, rather than offense vs offense, is the most fun character matchup.
I'm the complete opposite. I'm ALWAYS pushing the offensive and I love when my opponent is pushing back. It's like a big arm wrestling match sorta thing.
Bonus points if my opponent doesn't have a projectile.
It's more about options. In some games there are way more, or stronger, defencive options, in some there are more offensive options, and in a few they're about even. The only time defence gets tedious and boring is when it has few or fewer options than offence, and is less flashy.
managed to find 2 people who were relatively lag free and playable. It's so nice to actually be able to pull off combos and such. A really decent Dhalsim and a focus-attack happy Sakura. So yeah... at least I got a few fun games in. Great that they stuck around as long as they did too.
In other news, I'm fucking godlike at doing dudley f+mk combos. f+mk lp->mp target combo lp rh XX dash upper FADC jab rh XX ex mgb cr.rh ultra 2 is really not all that hard. The FADC is easily the trickiest part of the entire thing... I dunno what kind of frame advantage you have after dash upper FADC but landing that jab is fucking hard as hell.
Also, didn't know rh links from a f.mk... and it's a pretty easy fucking link or a savage frame trap. Makes me wish I could actually play Dudley and not just do show off combos in training mode.
aBlank on
0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I would like to contribute to this discussion in some way, but I find myself severely lacking in the relevant knowledge to do so.
So I'll just give a big thumbs up to Gen and Dee Jay.
Makes me wish I could actually play Dudley and not just do show off combos in training mode.
I know what you mean. With Gen I can chain J.MK > S.HP > Rapid Slap > Super > Crane Stance Ultra 1 in training. Shame it's so hideously impractical to try and do against a live opponent because it looks fucking impressive and makes me feel like a man for all of four seconds
Reply to stuffs from old thread (because life is busy and stops me from practicing >:( )
Pancake and Biz, the first ep of my podcast is coming up this week (I think tonight!). It's the first ep so I have no idea how good it is, but we talk a lot about how you improve fundamentally as a player. It's me and a few other ATX locals including John Low discussing basically everything we want IRT SF. It's really rough, but I'll link it when our host gets the file up on a site. If you guys want to eviscerate it and tell me how much it sucks, do so!
Posts
I think developers have a responsibility to tune fights to be fun, which I realize is very subjective. Some matchups are pretty boring no matter who you are, but fights I hate the most are Guile/Blanka/Zangief. Those fights are just based entirely on nonsense and quick moments that can decide the whole round.
I know some people must find those playstyles fun, but it's just...a chore. Playing the game should be fun.
Honestly, I think zoning and charge characters are the root of my dissatisfaction, which I realize is somewhat contradictory of me seeing how I main Chun (who plays the least like a charge character!) Both just lead to inherently defensive playstyles which tend to be low risk and capitalize on punishments, when risk and guessing games are what make fights interesting.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
The reason I snapped all those pictures in the previous link was so that people on SRK could verify that their pads were legit.
I didn't suggest any of those. Like Fig said, it's a matter of options. When all my options get distilled to one or two choices I get very bored. You can argue that it's just like any other situation where you have to guess or predict your opponents next move...but the strategy is just boring.
edit: specifically against most grapplers. Want to see grapplers done in an exciting fashion? See KoF, Blazblue, Virtua Fighter.
OPINIONSLOL etc.
it is funny that you play a zoning charge character, then, yeah :P
i really enjoy playing against a very solid zoning defense. i think that offense vs defense, rather than offense vs offense, is the most fun character matchup.
having a variety of play styles can only be a benefit to the game. the topology of a series of random matches of SFIV is pretty varied because the roster runs the gamut of blazing fast offense to long range, fully defensive zoning. i find it really interesting and stimulating to have to switch play styles so dramatically depending on matchups.
guile and zangief are usually some of my favourite matches. blanka is a stupid character though.
She also has a lot better close range options than either character and a better aggressive game. Chun is a very balanced character playstyle wise, her low health is really what tends to make her zone/turtle a lot, and she can be the aggressor in some matches and the defender in others.
so do you not like playing against Dhalsim? i find Dhalsim to be a fairly weak character most of the time, or at least quite hard to use, but a good Dhalsim is a) unusual and exciting, b) a very interesting and different challenge to attack, and c) extremely rewarding when you finally get in and give him a thrashing.
it's also a pretty great concept - normal attacks almost acting as projectiles, while being vulnerable to attack.
i can see Guile being frustrating even if you're winning, because he's so simple as a defensive wall, but I think he's really interesting to fight. He just entirely closes off the horizontal axis for large chunks of time and distance, and forces you to approach very carefully. But where Guile players really display their skill is when they're defending against an attacker who's gotten in, and when they are on the attack themselves.
I like that guile forces me to think differently, and I like playing guile because i like the sense of control and trying to maintain control or wrest it from the hands of the other player.
Edit: on the flip side, I would think he has a bitch of a time against rushdown like bison's. might seem like an easier fight for you if that's the case
Dhalsim is more interesting to me because I feel like he requires a lot more...skill and variety to be good. A Guile can be annoying if he just knows how to time sonic booms well since his fireball recovers so fast it's hard to punish even when you get the right guess (a lot of blocked hasanshus), and then he's a total pushover inside. An aggressive Guile is pretty interesting, but I think I could count on one hand everytime I've encountered one.
And like you said, Sim is vulnerable when zoning, his fireballs can be dash ultra'd and you can focus his fierce. He requires a lot more thought. If Guile throws out a bad sonic boom from across the screen, there's nothing you can do.
Then I lose.
Why would you do that? The Dudley matchup feels almost as bad as boxer or Dhalsim.
which is lucky for me since everyone plays him.
If anything Ryu needs to be removed from Street Fighter.
Personally, I don't find matches where I need to change my playstyle "lame", but I'm not a high level player in it to win it. For me, this game is fun when I'm playing with friends and smack talking it up (Get a mic Biz and Stoked!). I'm not sure I would ever want to play in big tournaments if that is the mindset that they foster. I enjoy having the "Who gives a shit?" attitude that I have about this game. If I ever got serious, I feel like all the love would be gone.
XBL / GFWL: Boceifus
I'm the complete opposite. I'm ALWAYS pushing the offensive and I love when my opponent is pushing back. It's like a big arm wrestling match sorta thing.
Bonus points if my opponent doesn't have a projectile.
There's a free update you can download from the marketplace called the Ultra Catalog, get that and you should be good.
And now, video!
New Costumes
3DS: 4184-2362-9697
PSN: Skywarrd
You know this would never happen
And it would be a bad idea
ryu IS street fighter.
Unfortunate but true. I mained Ryu from SF1 to SFA, but I was excited that the cast of SF3 was supposed to be entirely new. They acquiesced a bit, so I've come to accept that if we didn't get Ryu/Ken we'd get an identical but lamer clone.
So fresh.
:whistle:
I'm rocking cammy's hdremix theme.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I've been trying to find Cody's SF4 theme in MP3 format for awhile with no luck
Anybody know a place?
Juri's theme, epic guitar version is mine.
or Sakura's
Ibuki's SF3 theme is pretty great. Don't like the 4 remix much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIL6K-oL760
www.dirpy.com
The rest should be self-explanatory.
It's more about options. In some games there are way more, or stronger, defencive options, in some there are more offensive options, and in a few they're about even. The only time defence gets tedious and boring is when it has few or fewer options than offence, and is less flashy.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
In other news, I'm fucking godlike at doing dudley f+mk combos. f+mk lp->mp target combo lp rh XX dash upper FADC jab rh XX ex mgb cr.rh ultra 2 is really not all that hard. The FADC is easily the trickiest part of the entire thing... I dunno what kind of frame advantage you have after dash upper FADC but landing that jab is fucking hard as hell.
Also, didn't know rh links from a f.mk... and it's a pretty easy fucking link or a savage frame trap. Makes me wish I could actually play Dudley and not just do show off combos in training mode.
So I'll just give a big thumbs up to Gen and Dee Jay.
I know what you mean. With Gen I can chain J.MK > S.HP > Rapid Slap > Super > Crane Stance Ultra 1 in training. Shame it's so hideously impractical to try and do against a live opponent because it looks fucking impressive and makes me feel like a man for all of four seconds
Pancake and Biz, the first ep of my podcast is coming up this week (I think tonight!). It's the first ep so I have no idea how good it is, but we talk a lot about how you improve fundamentally as a player. It's me and a few other ATX locals including John Low discussing basically everything we want IRT SF. It's really rough, but I'll link it when our host gets the file up on a site. If you guys want to eviscerate it and tell me how much it sucks, do so!
You are officially awesome!