I suppose it's time for Nintendo to give up and be bought by MS like so many people were predicting back in 2004, right?
Seriously, the USD is weak as shit right now and the yen comparatively strong. All that money made in the US isn't buying much of the local currency when it's sent home to be added to the warchest.
As for the 3DS, in Japan alone it's going to go gangbusters just off the residual steam of the DS. If Nintendo can get enough demo units out to showcase the tech and enough positive media there is absolutely no reason to think it won't go gangbusters everywhere else. Consumers are perfectly ready to drop cash on Internet-enabled portable devices with flashy tech, if the iPhone is anything to go by.
The answer is obviously to win back the Final Fantasy franchise exclusivity. Also, more FF7 spin-offs.
The above statement was sarcasm.
Actually, I believe that at least part problem might stem from game piracy. I don't know how it is other parts of the world, but everyone I personally know -- EXCLUDING MYSELF BECAUSE I DO NOT OWN A WII NOR DO I ADVOCATE PIRACY OF ANY KIND -- has modified their Wii in manners that let them get games essentially for free. The Wii's hardware seems unique in it's vulnerability compared to say the XBOX 360 and PS3, because I don't know anyone with those consoles who has theirs modified. When the method seems simple enough and the punishment non-existent or lean at best, many people just don't care, especially if it means they save money for their entertainment.
Yes, piracy is despicable, but it happens, and perhaps we're seeing a genuine effect on the Big N.
There's a reason I haven't played a "core gamer" game in almost a decade. The quality got too spotty, and the price didn't go down to make it easier to justify.
A decade?
What games do you play man?
I find it insane that Nintendo are selling mountains of stuff but can't turn a profit. Even Microsoft are making money now, and they are bloody awesome at making a loss!
As far as their console specific IPs go, I find myself not really excited over Nintendo titles anymore.
I was somewhat excited when the New Super Mario Bros came out, which happened to be one of Nintendo's biggest sellers last year.
Everything else though has just been kinda meh. The Metroid and Zelda franchises have both gone in directions I no longer care to follow in. Even Mega Man, who despite being a 3rd party title has long been a big seller for Nintendo, no longer sparks my interest now with the exception of the 8-bit versions that came out on Wii Ware.
All I know is that it's a very scary thought for the gaming industry to imagine that Nintendo is suffering.
Maybe I'm just an oldschool curmudgeon here and in the minority, but for some reason Nintendo games just don't "feel" right to me when they're in 3D. I liked NSMB because not only did the game look great, but it felt like I was playing the old school Mario franchise. No complicated fetching quests, no weird physics, just gameplay that was simple enough to play yet fun enough to not get boring and maintain the replay factor. The addition of multi-player was truly icing on the cake and for the first time made me feel like I might buy a Wii, but I'd convinced myself that I wasn't going to buy a system just for one game.
This is a paper loss anyway, when they have to calculate that crap for stockholders. They (assuming their accountants have any sort of sense) are keeping their dollars as dollars and not converting them to yen.
For some reason I've never thought of that regarding any foreign company.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I find it insane that Nintendo are selling mountains of stuff but can't turn a profit. Even Microsoft are making money now, and they are bloody awesome at making a loss!
I guess it comes down to what margins they're working on.
On the Wii, Nintendo right now sells almost exclusively 1st-party development and there's a couple of reasons behind that. One being that Nintendo has far greater branding than the other consoles, and more people are aware of their products (and those products' exclusivity). The other is that Wii ports of games on other consoles sell extremely poorly because the limited capabilities of the Wii. So the money they make is not from sales of licensed products, unlike other game companies.
As well, with the dollar being weak, an MSRP of $99 on the Wii isn't going to give you a lot of return after factoring in costs, tariffs, and shipping. Thanks to their business model, Nintendo isn't a company you can just look at sales figures and go, "Well, they're obviously doing well. Look how much product they move." Their competition has tertiary income streams like DLC and licensing, as well as the media being bought and sold on their homestores (like XBox Live and PSN).
The Wii has a marked lack of utility compared to its competitors, so when you start losing your footing in your primary model, those opportunity costs start looking more and more like a better option.
We'll see how this all shakes out, of course. The 3DS is sure to post some big numbers, and the holidays are coming up. But I personally don't see a brighter future ahead for the Wii. Hopefully Nintendo is working on the next big thing; hopefully they're listening to the market just a little if they are.
Which brings up another question -- what is the next big thing for Nintendo, or for that matter, any future console?
Personally I don't see it laying in gimmicks -- 3D is a gimmick. Motion control is a gimmick. PS3 and 360 already have system that are "superior" in terms of hardware, and are now going to start moving in on motion control territory. Nintendo is testing out 3D and I'm sure that if they are even remotely successful, the Sony and Microsoft will incorporate it into their systems in some manner, but even that will fade when people get bored with it. Even the movie industry is starting to figure that out.
Consoles, as they stand now, are much more full-media devices than simply game systems. Everyone is doing Netflix streaming now. Everyone has online browsing. Everyone is doing motion control and I'm sure everyone will be doing 3D. Where do you go from there?
There's a reason I haven't played a "core gamer" game in almost a decade. The quality got too spotty, and the price didn't go down to make it easier to justify.
Wait, so a company with billions in reserve that has to increase production for both a new handheld and the Christmas season, creating craploads in unsold goods, loses only 24 million and everyone's acting like this is a big deal? Sony and MS lost billions with the launches of their systems, and they weren't delayed.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
Which brings up another question -- what is the next big thing for Nintendo, or for that matter, any future console?
Personally I don't see it laying in gimmicks -- 3D is a gimmick. Motion control is a gimmick. PS3 and 360 already have system that are "superior" in terms of hardware, and are now going to start moving in on motion control territory. Nintendo is testing out 3D and I'm sure that if they are even remotely successful, the Sony and Microsoft will incorporate it into their systems in some manner, but even that will fade when people get bored with it. Even the movie industry is starting to figure that out.
Consoles, as they stand now, are much more full-media devices than simply game systems. Everyone is doing Netflix streaming now. Everyone has online browsing. Everyone is doing motion control and I'm sure everyone will be doing 3D. Where do you go from there?
Well, for one thing, the PS3 already supports 3D, so they win there. They also support playback of 3D video and blu-ray, so they're ahead of the curve all the way around in that regard.
In some measure, the future is always going to be enhanced graphics and processing; that's been the one constant in the field since "Pong" came out. Nintendo is actually the first major player to buck that trend, and assert that people would prefer a new style of gaming over just bigger-faster-prettier like their competition. Has that model worked? Despite an enormous amount of financial evidence to the contrary, I'd still say that their model has failed in that regard. Wii customers don't want anything but the comfort of the big four franchises (as sales would indicate), while developers and traditional gamers have largely abandoned the platform altogether. Have they made money with their model? Certainly. Would that model work for any other company? Probably not.
The next iteration of Nintendo will at least in some part have to be a graphical and performance improvement over the status quo, and most likely an increase in product utility as well. And that's going to mean veering away from their current plan of offering lower-cost systems. But I think that's the choice they'll have to make, as I don't think there's any large amount of goodwill or interest left in the gaming community to see Nintendo to continue diversifying itself laterally instead of forwardly in the console market. But I could be wrong.
Wii customers don't want anything but the comfort of the big four franchises (as sales would indicate), while developers and traditional gamers have largely abandoned the platform altogether.
Wii didn't fail third parties, third parties failed the Wii.
In regards to porting their games, how do you come to this assertion?
It's simple math; the Wii can't do what it's competition does. I'm not trying to have an argument, I'm just remarking upon pure technological resources.
A company can't reasonably expect to offer the market two completely different gaming experiences being sold under the same title, yet that's what has to occur when a game is ported to the Wii.
The Wii obviously isn't aiming for the same market that the Sony/Microsoft developers are, so mutual detachment is probably the best course of action for both parties.
The Wii obviously isn't aiming for the same market that the Sony/Microsoft developers are, so mutual detachment is probably the best course of action for both parties.
I want to move to your dimension, where Move and Kinect apparently don't exist.
Wii customers don't want anything but the comfort of the big four franchises (as sales would indicate), while developers and traditional gamers have largely abandoned the platform altogether.
16 of their top 20 games are 1st-party titles. I'm unclear as to what your argument is.
Of the entire list, only five or so titles are even ported. This would seem to support my "developers aren't interesting in porting titles to the Wii" argument.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The Wii obviously isn't aiming for the same market that the Sony/Microsoft developers are, so mutual detachment is probably the best course of action for both parties.
I want to move to your dimension, where Move and Kinect apparently don't exist.
That's going the other way, with Sony and Microsoft trying to drink Nintendo's milkshake. It will probably fail spectacularly.
Nintendo only posted a loss because of some stupid accounting shit where they took all the money they are losing due to a high yen and calculated it upfront. (Kinda how MS wrote down a huge chunk of money for the 360 repairs due to RROD so that its future books wouldn't be marred by it)
Nintendo is fine. Even if sales are declining they still sell plenty and they make a profit on every single piece of hardware.
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
Wii customers don't want anything but the comfort of the big four franchises (as sales would indicate), while developers and traditional gamers have largely abandoned the platform altogether.
16 of their top 20 games are 1st-party titles. I'm unclear as to what your argument is.
Of the entire list, only five or so titles are even ported. This would seem to support my "developers aren't interesting in porting titles to the Wii" argument.
I was responding to your "big 4 franchises" argument. Nintendo has way more multi-million sellers than that.
I just want to point something out here: Nintendo basically prints money. They're a bank and a treasury.
They can afford to produce two consoles, and that's probably what they'll do. One for the bulk of people who just want fun times and don't care about buffed up graphics, and one for developers to write fancy AIs and stuff on.
Why are you so concerned about porting anyway? If every game was ported to every platform then there would be no reason for multiple platforms to exist. As it is, I can hardly fathom why either PS3 or 360 is more necessary than the other or why anyone would choose one over the other. Especially if you're so fixated on 3rd parties. So many releases are cross-platform.
The problem has nothing to do with porting. The problem is the rampant egotism displayed by developers who wouldn't lower themselves to develop on Nintendo hardware.
All of this is decidedly beside the main point anyway which, as many have said already, is pureley based on economic factors and has little to do with sales performance.
I just want to point something out here: Nintendo basically prints money. They're a bank and a treasury.
They can afford to produce two consoles, and that's probably what they'll do. One for the bulk of people who just want fun times and don't care about buffed up graphics, and one for developers to write fancy AIs and stuff on.
Remind me, how well did the PS2 sell compared to the Gamecube?
I just want to point something out here: Nintendo basically prints money. They're a bank and a treasury.
They can afford to produce two consoles, and that's probably what they'll do. One for the bulk of people who just want fun times and don't care about buffed up graphics, and one for developers to write fancy AIs and stuff on.
I just want to point something out here: Nintendo basically prints money. They're a bank and a treasury.
They can afford to produce two consoles, and that's probably what they'll do. One for the bulk of people who just want fun times and don't care about buffed up graphics, and one for developers to write fancy AIs and stuff on.
Remind me, how well did the PS2 sell compared to the Gamecube?
You're going to have to expand on this before I'll answer it. It seems like you're trying to launch off on a flawed argument, but I want to give the benefit of the doubt.
You're going to have to expand on this before I'll answer it. It seems like you're trying to launch off on a flawed argument, but I want to give the benefit of the doubt.
That it would be a really bad idea for them to act upon the idea that they can 'print money!' (one wonders what people must think of Microsofts profits, it prints planets comprised of texas?). They've been in this position before, and look what happened then. Overextending themselves or relying upon domination next generation would be a poor idea.
Wasn't this basically inevitable? I mean, unless the point of purchasing a DS is to throw it away as soon as another model/color of it comes out, they've sold a lot of them after all.
Nintendo has some slow years too. Big whoop. It really does seem inevitable--and least it wasn't another subtle, stretched-out embarrassment like the Gamecube (the numbers of purchases, not the actual console, which was fine).
GC could have been a much bigger failure. It sold for a profit and any negative overall effect on the profits were probably mostly early on with the R&D costs. Advertising costs shouldn't have negated the profits from game sales and royalties.
First quarter net sales were 188.6 billion yen (of which overseas sales were 163.2 billion yen, or 86.5% of total sales), operating income was 23.3 billion yen. Foreign exchange losses were 70.5 billion yen.
Net sales were 363.1 billion yen (of which overseas sales were 295.4 billion yen, or 81.4% of total sales) and operating income was 54.2 billion yen. In addition, reevaluation of assets in foreign currencies generated exchange losses totaling 62.1 billion yen
Nintendo improved their foreign exchange losses in Q2, but that -70 billion in Q1 is quite a hole even before taking into account declining hardware sales. The euro/yen rate absolutely murdered Japanese companies last spring.
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Seriously, the USD is weak as shit right now and the yen comparatively strong. All that money made in the US isn't buying much of the local currency when it's sent home to be added to the warchest.
As for the 3DS, in Japan alone it's going to go gangbusters just off the residual steam of the DS. If Nintendo can get enough demo units out to showcase the tech and enough positive media there is absolutely no reason to think it won't go gangbusters everywhere else. Consumers are perfectly ready to drop cash on Internet-enabled portable devices with flashy tech, if the iPhone is anything to go by.
The above statement was sarcasm.
Actually, I believe that at least part problem might stem from game piracy. I don't know how it is other parts of the world, but everyone I personally know -- EXCLUDING MYSELF BECAUSE I DO NOT OWN A WII NOR DO I ADVOCATE PIRACY OF ANY KIND -- has modified their Wii in manners that let them get games essentially for free. The Wii's hardware seems unique in it's vulnerability compared to say the XBOX 360 and PS3, because I don't know anyone with those consoles who has theirs modified. When the method seems simple enough and the punishment non-existent or lean at best, many people just don't care, especially if it means they save money for their entertainment.
Yes, piracy is despicable, but it happens, and perhaps we're seeing a genuine effect on the Big N.
A decade?
What games do you play man?
I find it insane that Nintendo are selling mountains of stuff but can't turn a profit. Even Microsoft are making money now, and they are bloody awesome at making a loss!
I'm still waiting to see the 3DS's anti-piracy measures, because if they get another R4 debacle, they're... well, not sunk, but going to be limping.
I was somewhat excited when the New Super Mario Bros came out, which happened to be one of Nintendo's biggest sellers last year.
Everything else though has just been kinda meh. The Metroid and Zelda franchises have both gone in directions I no longer care to follow in. Even Mega Man, who despite being a 3rd party title has long been a big seller for Nintendo, no longer sparks my interest now with the exception of the 8-bit versions that came out on Wii Ware.
All I know is that it's a very scary thought for the gaming industry to imagine that Nintendo is suffering.
Maybe I'm just an oldschool curmudgeon here and in the minority, but for some reason Nintendo games just don't "feel" right to me when they're in 3D. I liked NSMB because not only did the game look great, but it felt like I was playing the old school Mario franchise. No complicated fetching quests, no weird physics, just gameplay that was simple enough to play yet fun enough to not get boring and maintain the replay factor. The addition of multi-player was truly icing on the cake and for the first time made me feel like I might buy a Wii, but I'd convinced myself that I wasn't going to buy a system just for one game.
I guess it comes down to what margins they're working on.
On the Wii, Nintendo right now sells almost exclusively 1st-party development and there's a couple of reasons behind that. One being that Nintendo has far greater branding than the other consoles, and more people are aware of their products (and those products' exclusivity). The other is that Wii ports of games on other consoles sell extremely poorly because the limited capabilities of the Wii. So the money they make is not from sales of licensed products, unlike other game companies.
As well, with the dollar being weak, an MSRP of $99 on the Wii isn't going to give you a lot of return after factoring in costs, tariffs, and shipping. Thanks to their business model, Nintendo isn't a company you can just look at sales figures and go, "Well, they're obviously doing well. Look how much product they move." Their competition has tertiary income streams like DLC and licensing, as well as the media being bought and sold on their homestores (like XBox Live and PSN).
The Wii has a marked lack of utility compared to its competitors, so when you start losing your footing in your primary model, those opportunity costs start looking more and more like a better option.
We'll see how this all shakes out, of course. The 3DS is sure to post some big numbers, and the holidays are coming up. But I personally don't see a brighter future ahead for the Wii. Hopefully Nintendo is working on the next big thing; hopefully they're listening to the market just a little if they are.
Personally I don't see it laying in gimmicks -- 3D is a gimmick. Motion control is a gimmick. PS3 and 360 already have system that are "superior" in terms of hardware, and are now going to start moving in on motion control territory. Nintendo is testing out 3D and I'm sure that if they are even remotely successful, the Sony and Microsoft will incorporate it into their systems in some manner, but even that will fade when people get bored with it. Even the movie industry is starting to figure that out.
Consoles, as they stand now, are much more full-media devices than simply game systems. Everyone is doing Netflix streaming now. Everyone has online browsing. Everyone is doing motion control and I'm sure everyone will be doing 3D. Where do you go from there?
None that cost money.
Addressed that in other posts.
Just for reference that's equal to every man, woman, and child in japan to own one
If Nintendo isn't recession-proof, no one is
The recession ended in 2009
Well, for one thing, the PS3 already supports 3D, so they win there. They also support playback of 3D video and blu-ray, so they're ahead of the curve all the way around in that regard.
In some measure, the future is always going to be enhanced graphics and processing; that's been the one constant in the field since "Pong" came out. Nintendo is actually the first major player to buck that trend, and assert that people would prefer a new style of gaming over just bigger-faster-prettier like their competition. Has that model worked? Despite an enormous amount of financial evidence to the contrary, I'd still say that their model has failed in that regard. Wii customers don't want anything but the comfort of the big four franchises (as sales would indicate), while developers and traditional gamers have largely abandoned the platform altogether. Have they made money with their model? Certainly. Would that model work for any other company? Probably not.
The next iteration of Nintendo will at least in some part have to be a graphical and performance improvement over the status quo, and most likely an increase in product utility as well. And that's going to mean veering away from their current plan of offering lower-cost systems. But I think that's the choice they'll have to make, as I don't think there's any large amount of goodwill or interest left in the gaming community to see Nintendo to continue diversifying itself laterally instead of forwardly in the console market. But I could be wrong.
In regards to porting their games, how do you come to this assertion?
It's simple math; the Wii can't do what it's competition does. I'm not trying to have an argument, I'm just remarking upon pure technological resources.
A company can't reasonably expect to offer the market two completely different gaming experiences being sold under the same title, yet that's what has to occur when a game is ported to the Wii.
The Wii obviously isn't aiming for the same market that the Sony/Microsoft developers are, so mutual detachment is probably the best course of action for both parties.
I want to move to your dimension, where Move and Kinect apparently don't exist.
16 of their top 20 games are 1st-party titles. I'm unclear as to what your argument is.
Of the entire list, only five or so titles are even ported. This would seem to support my "developers aren't interesting in porting titles to the Wii" argument.
That's going the other way, with Sony and Microsoft trying to drink Nintendo's milkshake. It will probably fail spectacularly.
Nintendo is fine. Even if sales are declining they still sell plenty and they make a profit on every single piece of hardware.
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
I was responding to your "big 4 franchises" argument. Nintendo has way more multi-million sellers than that.
They can afford to produce two consoles, and that's probably what they'll do. One for the bulk of people who just want fun times and don't care about buffed up graphics, and one for developers to write fancy AIs and stuff on.
The problem has nothing to do with porting. The problem is the rampant egotism displayed by developers who wouldn't lower themselves to develop on Nintendo hardware.
All of this is decidedly beside the main point anyway which, as many have said already, is pureley based on economic factors and has little to do with sales performance.
Remind me, how well did the PS2 sell compared to the Gamecube?
compete with yourself
You're going to have to expand on this before I'll answer it. It seems like you're trying to launch off on a flawed argument, but I want to give the benefit of the doubt.
That it would be a really bad idea for them to act upon the idea that they can 'print money!' (one wonders what people must think of Microsofts profits, it prints planets comprised of texas?). They've been in this position before, and look what happened then. Overextending themselves or relying upon domination next generation would be a poor idea.
Nintendo has some slow years too. Big whoop. It really does seem inevitable--and least it wasn't another subtle, stretched-out embarrassment like the Gamecube (the numbers of purchases, not the actual console, which was fine).
Net income:
Q1: -25.1 billion yen
Q2: +23.1 billion yen
Fiscal year to date: -2.01 billion yen.
And here is the extent to which the yen appreciation killed them
Nintendo improved their foreign exchange losses in Q2, but that -70 billion in Q1 is quite a hole even before taking into account declining hardware sales. The euro/yen rate absolutely murdered Japanese companies last spring.