- Don't charge into the middle of the field right out the gate - Don't jump around like a retard when I'm trying to heal you
Bolded part is important. This is a hard thing to get used to. I've been playing engie, and a big part of my game plan is to jump pack around and pot shot people or ignite them. When I am low on health, my gut reaction is "JUMP PACK GO!" I speak for all my ranged and melee DPS friends who have evac skills. It's a hard habit to break. But I for one will try.
- Don't charge into the middle of the field right out the gate - Don't jump around like a retard when I'm trying to heal you
Bolded part is important. This is a hard thing to get used to. I've been playing engie, and a big part of my game plan is to jump pack around and pot shot people or ignite them. When I am low on health, my gut reaction is "JUMP PACK GO!" I speak for all my ranged and melee DPS friends who have evac skills. It's a hard habit to break. But I for one will try.
I say this because anytime there's a Ranid Assassin, I can't heal him. Even though they have better chances of living if I heal them, they choose to bounce around until they die instead.
I'm tempted to try and get a discussion going, and hopefully some answers, on the main site about what exactly the metagame is designed for, but it seems totally dead for any real discussions. Feels like giving the game 6 months to find its legs before proceeding is the best bet right now.
I'm tempted to try and get a discussion going, and hopefully some answers, on the main site about what exactly the metagame is designed for, but it seems totally dead for any real discussions. Feels like giving the game 6 months to find its legs before proceeding is the best bet right now.
People are still figuring things out. The win/losses seem arbitrary a lot of the time and I can't pinpoint what we're doing right or wrong.
It's the way ladder and tourney play is designed, with draft picks when at least 2/3rds of the user base has no method or reason to counterpick, and that so many of the champions fill the same rolls, just in different ways.
Either counterpicking is designed for and possible, making anyone without access to the correct champions totally screwed, or teams or completely down to preference, in which case, what's with the draft picks, and how many of the champions are going to end up being redundant (and a waste of money).
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
From what I've seen from one-sided fights, it seems like positioning is a big factor on whether your ranged get to deal any damage or not.
Also, peeling for healers is boss.
Arirang on wowriot.gameriot also has several blogs about competitive BLC but his latest post is from almost a year ago. He also won some kind of national tournament.
Either counterpicking is designed for and possible, making anyone without access to the correct champions totally screwed, or teams or completely down to preference, in which case, what's with the draft picks, and how many of the champions are going to end up being redundant (and a waste of money).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
I think you're thinking of counterpicking in the sense of LoL or HoN, where countering the enemy's team composition is very important. A lot of times in those games you'll hear stuff like "outpicked" and "game was over at champion select".
Two things make counterpicks important in those DotA-likes:
1) Many champions have very strong counter-champions
2) If you're a good player, you can pick up and play a lot of champions very well. There are only four abilities, and some of those might be passive or not require aiming. A lot of the skills are transferable (e.g. map awareness).
On the other hand, you have BLC. Well, BLC came out a week ago, so at this point no one really knows what high level play will turn out looking like, but let's look at the two tourneys last weekend (I posted a video of the EU tourney previously in the thread).
The winner of both those tournaments was ISR (r3x, Jackazzm, chipshajen).
ISR always had the same comp: Igniter, Alchemist, Spearmaster.
If you look at Jackazzm stats he has like >97% or something of games played as Spearmaster. I'm pretty sure he's not going to counterpick.
The reasons seem to be:
1) Either no really strong counters exist, or people haven't figured them out yet
2) Every bloodline is very deep skillwise: you can play a BL for 100 games and still not be a master. So counterpicking would probably only hinder most players.
So why do they have single draft?
I dunno, because it's cool?
Also, if you're a player who has two or a couple of bloodlines you can use pretty well, then you can to a certain degree counterpick. And if the enemy picks something crazy like 3 Glutton, then you can...
well I dunno, but you probably shouldn't pick 3 Ranid
If you can pick any champion and any team, and still expect to win against any other combination, then what is the incentive for getting all of them (besides basic variety). If it eventually happens that there are obvious counterpicks and champion synergies, then anyone who doesn't have those options available to them will be severely disadvantaged. Counterpicks may be iffy, but I'm more than certain that strong team synergies exist. I've already observed them.
Another thing is the maps.
Anyway, it's quit clear that this game is designed more after Guild Wars and FPS than dota.
I know things are still being worked out; that's why I said it would be best to wait 6 months to see if anything progresses. I just can't play a competitive game in a completely non-competitive capacity, even though I'm not competitive myself. It already bothers me that there's no real discussion of topics that are hugely important to the game's competitive side -- I see almost no discussion of the metagame at all, and what I'm talking about is very basic stuff.
Yah, at first I also thought it was really weird that there was no discussion of tier lists, metagame, and all the stuff you see with competitive games. The best I've seen on the BLC forums is "All the BLs are balanced". I guess it's just because the game is young and no one has really figured it out yet.
It might also be because teams can only be stacked 3 deep. In games like LoL you need to talk about your 5 man team and be organized. Because herding 5 cats is quite difficult. Plus, LoL does not have a balanced load-out. Deny it all you want but some champs are weaker and some are stronger, not just against eachother, but in general. So the meta is formed to exploit these strong champs and organize 5 people into a playable unit.
In BLC, the champs are really well balanced. Even hard counters can be taken down by superior skill reliably. So there is no real need for discussion on "nerf this" or "wow OP much?". Now, on to teams...It's me and 2 friends. "Ok, Jim you take a healer cause you're boss with them. Tim, you play...I don't know, what are you best with? K, I'll play the DPS slot that I'm pretty good with" That's all there is to it. You can have a well rounded team, or a stacked team (like 3 of the same archetype), but either way it boils down to player skill.
The rounded team could whoop every stacked teams ass if all the players are on the ball. I don't know, just from what I've seen the meta for BLC will be very slight. Just because it's so diverse, and each champ is not just a clone with a new skin.
After about two hours with BLC, I really enjoyed what I played. Like a lot of you have said, it does the sort of things that makes DotA fun without the thirty minutes of grinding and people raging. While I have had some bad games with some pretty vulgar people, even those matches lasted a whole ten minutes and I can move on with my life.
Anyway, would love for you guys to add me to your friend's list. I'd like to believe I play a pretty good game with the Alchemist and enjoy me some support classes. Username is Debaser404.
I think I'm gonna end up buying the 30$ starter package. I know I'll probably end up only playing the same few champions anyways but I want to support the game and that way I'll get to try anyone whenever I want.
I think I'm gonna end up buying the 30$ starter package. I know I'll probably end up only playing the same few champions anyways but I want to support the game and that way I'll get to try anyone whenever I want.
I'm thinking the same. Unfortunately, one of the bloodlines I really want to play isn't in the champion package...
Ok I'm having a hard time getting this payment to work. Keeps saying I have a pending payment. It asks me for my little 3 number credit card code to submit payment and when I do nothing happens. Do I have to wait for them to process it or something? I've never had this much trouble buying something online before.
Yah, at first I also thought it was really weird that there was no discussion of tier lists, metagame, and all the stuff you see with competitive games. The best I've seen on the BLC forums is "All the BLs are balanced". I guess it's just because the game is young and no one has really figured it out yet.
I'm guessing we will have to see more Bloodline guides before they start getting into the Meta.
I can't wait till they open up the "clan" feature, we should have a PA clan so we can team up and rock out.
I'm mixed about their team thing. On one hand, it's nice to track stats with your buddies. On the other, you're limited to 3 teams, and in order to play with random people who are on, you need to disband one of your teams. I suppose you could have one slot thats devoted to rotating teams, but that kind of sucks.
I'd like them to have a free form team that doesn't take a slot, and doesn't track stats. Just for ease of use.
You get 5 teams if you buy the champion pack. More for Titan, I think.
Well. I know what I'm buying soon then...I have the Seeker and Stalker already, but I've been looking at the Guardian. Especially after I've been wrecked by some really good ones before.
If you buy the Champion pack, you also get 600 Funcom coins - enough to buy one bloodline. So if there's only one you want that isn't in the base pack, you're in luck.
You get 5 teams if you buy the champion pack. More for Titan, I think.
Well. I know what I'm buying soon then...I have the Seeker and Stalker already, but I've been looking at the Guardian. Especially after I've been wrecked by some really good ones before.
Guardian was the first hero I really latched on to. The first game I played with her clicked really well. Pretty much the reason I'm still playing BLC.
If you buy the Champion pack, you also get 600 Funcom coins - enough to buy one bloodline. So if there's only one you want that isn't in the base pack, you're in luck.
This game is pretty fun; Glutton and Astronomer are by far my favorites so far.
Playing a lot of Astronomer right now, enjoy his playstyle because he does a bit of everything, long range sniping, healing, CC, and can jump in when somebody is low for some pretty sick melee burst damage all the sudden. Just have to really hang back and bide your time at the beginning of the fight then move in when somebody gets low.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Just added my name to the list. A friend of mine introduced me to this yesterday. We had a lot of fun, so its nice to see a PA thread supporting the game. I haven't bought anything because money is tight, but he might sink some cash into it.
Posts
- Don't charge into the middle of the field right out the gate
- Don't jump around like a retard when I'm trying to heal you
Bolded part is important. This is a hard thing to get used to. I've been playing engie, and a big part of my game plan is to jump pack around and pot shot people or ignite them. When I am low on health, my gut reaction is "JUMP PACK GO!" I speak for all my ranged and melee DPS friends who have evac skills. It's a hard habit to break. But I for one will try.
I say this because anytime there's a Ranid Assassin, I can't heal him. Even though they have better chances of living if I heal them, they choose to bounce around until they die instead.
Fabulous
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Gluttons have wonderful control, too. Definitely the best tank Bloodline I've seen.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
People are still figuring things out. The win/losses seem arbitrary a lot of the time and I can't pinpoint what we're doing right or wrong.
It's the way ladder and tourney play is designed, with draft picks when at least 2/3rds of the user base has no method or reason to counterpick, and that so many of the champions fill the same rolls, just in different ways.
Either counterpicking is designed for and possible, making anyone without access to the correct champions totally screwed, or teams or completely down to preference, in which case, what's with the draft picks, and how many of the champions are going to end up being redundant (and a waste of money).
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Also, peeling for healers is boss.
Example: http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/The-Ohcee/The-Epic-Journey-that-was-Bloodline-Champions
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I think you're thinking of counterpicking in the sense of LoL or HoN, where countering the enemy's team composition is very important. A lot of times in those games you'll hear stuff like "outpicked" and "game was over at champion select".
Two things make counterpicks important in those DotA-likes:
1) Many champions have very strong counter-champions
2) If you're a good player, you can pick up and play a lot of champions very well. There are only four abilities, and some of those might be passive or not require aiming. A lot of the skills are transferable (e.g. map awareness).
On the other hand, you have BLC. Well, BLC came out a week ago, so at this point no one really knows what high level play will turn out looking like, but let's look at the two tourneys last weekend (I posted a video of the EU tourney previously in the thread).
The winner of both those tournaments was ISR (r3x, Jackazzm, chipshajen).
ISR always had the same comp: Igniter, Alchemist, Spearmaster.
If you look at Jackazzm stats he has like >97% or something of games played as Spearmaster. I'm pretty sure he's not going to counterpick.
The reasons seem to be:
1) Either no really strong counters exist, or people haven't figured them out yet
2) Every bloodline is very deep skillwise: you can play a BL for 100 games and still not be a master. So counterpicking would probably only hinder most players.
So why do they have single draft?
I dunno, because it's cool?
Also, if you're a player who has two or a couple of bloodlines you can use pretty well, then you can to a certain degree counterpick. And if the enemy picks something crazy like 3 Glutton, then you can...
well I dunno, but you probably shouldn't pick 3 Ranid
If you can pick any champion and any team, and still expect to win against any other combination, then what is the incentive for getting all of them (besides basic variety). If it eventually happens that there are obvious counterpicks and champion synergies, then anyone who doesn't have those options available to them will be severely disadvantaged. Counterpicks may be iffy, but I'm more than certain that strong team synergies exist. I've already observed them.
Another thing is the maps.
Anyway, it's quit clear that this game is designed more after Guild Wars and FPS than dota.
I know things are still being worked out; that's why I said it would be best to wait 6 months to see if anything progresses. I just can't play a competitive game in a completely non-competitive capacity, even though I'm not competitive myself. It already bothers me that there's no real discussion of topics that are hugely important to the game's competitive side -- I see almost no discussion of the metagame at all, and what I'm talking about is very basic stuff.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
In BLC, the champs are really well balanced. Even hard counters can be taken down by superior skill reliably. So there is no real need for discussion on "nerf this" or "wow OP much?". Now, on to teams...It's me and 2 friends. "Ok, Jim you take a healer cause you're boss with them. Tim, you play...I don't know, what are you best with? K, I'll play the DPS slot that I'm pretty good with" That's all there is to it. You can have a well rounded team, or a stacked team (like 3 of the same archetype), but either way it boils down to player skill.
The rounded team could whoop every stacked teams ass if all the players are on the ball. I don't know, just from what I've seen the meta for BLC will be very slight. Just because it's so diverse, and each champ is not just a clone with a new skin.
Anyway, would love for you guys to add me to your friend's list. I'd like to believe I play a pretty good game with the Alchemist and enjoy me some support classes. Username is Debaser404.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
I'm thinking the same. Unfortunately, one of the bloodlines I really want to play isn't in the champion package...
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Oh and DarkeWolfe : the 30$ package also gives you 600 funcom points which is exactly the price of a new bloodline.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
I'm guessing we will have to see more Bloodline guides before they start getting into the Meta.
MWO: Adamski
I'm mixed about their team thing. On one hand, it's nice to track stats with your buddies. On the other, you're limited to 3 teams, and in order to play with random people who are on, you need to disband one of your teams. I suppose you could have one slot thats devoted to rotating teams, but that kind of sucks.
I'd like them to have a free form team that doesn't take a slot, and doesn't track stats. Just for ease of use.
Well. I know what I'm buying soon then...I have the Seeker and Stalker already, but I've been looking at the Guardian. Especially after I've been wrecked by some really good ones before.
Very slowly picking up more of the Nuance from the different classes.
MWO: Adamski
Guardian was the first hero I really latched on to. The first game I played with her clicked really well. Pretty much the reason I'm still playing BLC.
Melee: Harbinger
Ranged: Gunner
Tank: Inhibitor
Healer: Astronomer
yay!
Gunner, Harb, and Inhib were just the BLs that I was considering buying!
Also, now we shall see who the true legit gluttons and ranids are!
Harb seems super easy to play. Hit and heal while you hit.
Gunner is easy too, great range and if they get close u got a stealth, blind, and a big jump.
Inhib is much more...involved. Rune rotations and all that jazz, a bit confusing at 1st.
Astro is cool, like all healers has great control options. The ult is pretty powerful but I'm not used to M1 melee on a healer.
just my 2 cents.
Saw that earlier. May be what I do.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=t6PhAiGbGbOir8ufqlBZ1ZQ&hl=en&authkey=CMPh5aoK#gid=0
This game is pretty fun; Glutton and Astronomer are by far my favorites so far.
Playing a lot of Astronomer right now, enjoy his playstyle because he does a bit of everything, long range sniping, healing, CC, and can jump in when somebody is low for some pretty sick melee burst damage all the sudden. Just have to really hang back and bide your time at the beginning of the fight then move in when somebody gets low.
Til then don't forget to join channel pennyarcade
I may have to shell out cashmonies for it.
Also, you still got the preorder bonuses if you bought yesterday. Now I guess you dont?