As DW frost, I basically feel like I'm soloing heroics right now.
Has there been any word on removing the runestrike proc for tanks? It sounds like they can't decide how to make the mechanic work for just tanking mode - I say nerf the damage some and add a threat boost, making it spamable for all.
Yes, on beta it only requires blood presence and a GCD.
Why bother getting new gear if you don't want to get 50 more dps?
Because new gear is going to give me more than 50 dps, and even if not, it doesn't require a specific way of playing. I just happen to acquire that gear in the course of doing instances, which are an end to themselves.
Adding in a ton of extra abilities to potentially use in very narrow situations for a tiny dps game, is not how I like to play.
You know, after bitching about DK in the last thread, I kinda changed my mind. Diseaseless tanking is pretty decent, and I like how blood boil actually does threat. I just wish I didn't have to start ever pull with a taunt though.
Why bother getting new gear if you don't want to get 50 more dps?
Because new gear is going to give me more than 50 dps, and even if not, it doesn't require a specific way of playing. I just happen to acquire that gear in the course of doing instances, which are an end to themselves.
Adding in a ton of extra abilities to potentially use in very narrow situations for a tiny dps game, is not how I like to play.
every time you go 'eh it's only 50 dps'...
although i don't really understand choosing to play a DPS class and not trying to maximize your DPS, i don't even know why that would be fun
Why bother getting new gear if you don't want to get 50 more dps?
Because new gear is going to give me more than 50 dps, and even if not, it doesn't require a specific way of playing. I just happen to acquire that gear in the course of doing instances, which are an end to themselves.
Adding in a ton of extra abilities to potentially use in very narrow situations for a tiny dps game, is not how I like to play.
every time you go 'eh it's only 50 dps'...
although i don't really understand choosing to play a DPS class and not trying to maximize your DPS, i don't even know why that would be fun
I don't suppose you raid a lot? People have a lot of different reasons for playing WoW. Trying to be the very best, or trying to progress the fastest, are nowhere on my list. I recognize that with a good amount of effort, I can reach maybe 95%+ of my max dps, but that last 5% takes waaaay more effort. It's not worth it. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I also wouldn't buy a Nostromo controller, and spend my days trying to theorycraft all possible activities and gear combinations to maximize my dps.
And Blizzard seems to think this is reasonable as well, as that's a significant reason for the new way talent trees are set up, to give more automatic dps, and make a smaller portion of dps, a result of talent choices.
I don't think it's ridiculous or "lol why are you even playing" for someone not to be interested in a specific talent/glyph setup based around standing in void zones once a minute for a small DPS increase (when applicable) at the risk of screwing up or the potential cost of not having a cooldown available when you really need it.
Really not even close to the same league as "I'm gonna raid DPS with herbalism/mining as my professions!" or "I'm gonna gem for haste/crit instead of armpen because that's what I like!"
forty on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
it's a lot easier to run into a void zone in combat than it is to level up a whole new profession, mang.
mostly it's the "pfeh 50 dps" attitude that i find kind of silly.
The point of the talent, if you are not a min/maxer, is that you get double benefit from using AMS. And you can, will, and should be using it anyways, so now you are just getting free RP on top of it. You don't HAVE to run into void zones to get a useful benefit out of this talent.
This argument is really dumb, because nowhere in the EJ thread are they suggesting you stand in the fire to up your DPS. You put the one point in the unholy talent for AMS to generate runic power because the other 2 points are worth barely more than the first, and if you're incidentally taking magic damage (which happens plenty) it's a boost.
This argument is really dumb, because nowhere in the EJ thread are they suggesting you stand in the fire to up your DPS. You put the one point in the unholy talent for AMS to generate runic power because the other 2 points are worth barely more than the first, and if you're incidentally taking magic damage (which happens plenty) it's a boost.
But again, the dps gain is probably tiny(that's my assumption). I'd much rather finish out desecration than put the one point into the AMS talent, regardless of whether the idea is to stand in void zones or not.
You know, after bitching about DK in the last thread, I kinda changed my mind. Diseaseless tanking is pretty decent, and I like how blood boil actually does threat. I just wish I didn't have to start ever pull with a taunt though.
I wanted to say something really mean, but decided to be civil, these are not the WoW forums, after all.
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
Plus you need them both off cooldown for those oh, crap moments. I posted the most effective burst threat lead in possible earlier. (DS, HS, BB, DS, DRW, ERW, DS, HS, HS, DS, now your off into normal priority, be sure to use Rune Tap often.) Do NOT use Rune Strike until you get DRW up (after the first DRW, use RS as much as you can). Glyphed that s a 50% increase in threat. The only person i have to fight to keep threat from is my pally offtank.
You know, after bitching about DK in the last thread, I kinda changed my mind. Diseaseless tanking is pretty decent, and I like how blood boil actually does threat. I just wish I didn't have to start ever pull with a taunt though.
I wanted to say something really mean, but decided to be civil, these are not the WoW forums, after all.
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
Plus you need them both off cooldown for those oh, crap moments. I posted the most effective burst threat lead in possible earlier. (DS, HS, BB, DS, DRW, ERW, DS, HS, HS, DS, now your off into normal priority, be sure to use Rune Tap often.) Do NOT use Rune Strike until you get DRW up (after the first DRW, use RS as much as you can). Glyphed that s a 50% increase in threat. The only person i have to fight to keep threat from is my pally offtank.
I think Bigboots is talking about tanking Heroics, where DPS will pull aggro before your AOE threat is firmly established, in which case you have to taunt the enemy that chases them frequently. In that circumstance though I just mash Blood Boil and I don't seem to lose threat, so that's something to try also.
You know, after bitching about DK in the last thread, I kinda changed my mind. Diseaseless tanking is pretty decent, and I like how blood boil actually does threat. I just wish I didn't have to start ever pull with a taunt though.
I wanted to say something really mean, but decided to be civil, these are not the WoW forums, after all.
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
Plus you need them both off cooldown for those oh, crap moments. I posted the most effective burst threat lead in possible earlier. (DS, HS, BB, DS, DRW, ERW, DS, HS, HS, DS, now your off into normal priority, be sure to use Rune Tap often.) Do NOT use Rune Strike until you get DRW up (after the first DRW, use RS as much as you can). Glyphed that s a 50% increase in threat. The only person i have to fight to keep threat from is my pally offtank.
I think Bigboots is talking about tanking Heroics, where DPS will pull aggro before your AOE threat is firmly established, in which case you have to taunt the enemy that chases them frequently. In that circumstance though I just mash Blood Boil and I don't seem to lose threat, so that's something to try also.
For AoE threat Drop your DnD, Blood Boil as much as you can if you're fighting more than like 6mobs, otherwise HS, use your diseases, tab target RS/DS. If someone pulls threat let them eat it.
For AoE threat Drop your DnD, Blood Boil as much as you can if you're fighting more than like 6mobs, otherwise HS, use your diseases, tab target RS/DS. If someone pulls threat let them eat it.
That sounds like my game plan. I almost never have to taunt and usually I'm too lazy to bother anyways.
Walt on
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INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
what runes are we using for DW frost? Fallen Crusader twice?
INeedNoSalt on
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Oh man, 2H Frost is too much fun to believe. I know Unholy is slightly better but I just can't resist seeing huge numbers and having zero ramp up time.
Oh man, 2H Frost is too much fun to believe. I know Unholy is slightly better but I just can't resist seeing huge numbers and having zero ramp up time.
srs.biz. plus you don't have a wonky pet to manage.
Is Death Strike the only option available for self healing for Unholy? I'm trying to quest and some self healing would be nice. Death Strike is kind of awkward to work into my rotation.
So I picked up my DK on live after having not playing her since Ulduar. I'm really enjoying Frost PvP. I almost have enough for my 1800 glad weapons, however any ideas on if its better to go DW or 2h?
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
I should note that death grip and dark command work exactly the same (bar DG's yank effect) - they both taunt to match the highest threat and they both force the target to attack you for up to 3 seconds.
Is Death Strike the only option available for self healing for Unholy? I'm trying to quest and some self healing would be nice. Death Strike is kind of awkward to work into my rotation.
You could eat your ghoul once you get sufficiently low. What's wrong with deathstrikin'? Just burn the excess blood rune on a blood strike.
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
I should note that death grip and dark command work exactly the same (bar DG's yank effect) - they both taunt to match the highest threat and they both force the target to attack you for up to 3 seconds.
Is Death Strike the only option available for self healing for Unholy? I'm trying to quest and some self healing would be nice. Death Strike is kind of awkward to work into my rotation.
You could eat your ghoul once you get sufficiently low. What's wrong with deathstrikin'? Just burn the excess blood rune on a blood strike.
Have you played Unholy since the patch?
Death Strike does not fit into the Unholy rotation at all anymore. Unholy does U and BF, not B and FU like it used to. The only way to really use it is to burn your Death Runes on it.
Death Strike does not fit into the Unholy rotation at all anymore. Unholy does U and BF, not B and FU like it used to. The only way to really use it is to burn your Death Runes on it.
I am well aware of how unholy works - that's why I said you could burn the leftover blood runes on blood strikes. Considering this is only questing and not a dps race, I imagine it's just a matter of personal preference and spare keybinds.
Death Strike does not fit into the Unholy rotation at all anymore. Unholy does U and BF, not B and FU like it used to. The only way to really use it is to burn your Death Runes on it.
I am well aware of how unholy works - that's why I said you could burn the leftover blood runes on blood strikes. Considering this is only questing and not a dps race, I imagine it's just a matter of personal preference and spare keybinds.
That would involve having Blood Strike on your bars in the first place. Why would you be doing that?
His assumption was correct: No, there really isn't another reliable way to heal as Unholy and yes, DS is now clunky as hell to use.
shryke on
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
edited November 2010
DS when you need health, because a dead dps is 0 dps. Other then that the only other time is to DS while leveling whenever you're low.
That would involve having Blood Strike on your bars in the first place. Why would you be doing that?
His assumption was correct: No, there really isn't another reliable way to heal as Unholy and yes, DS is now clunky as hell to use.
Are you reading my posts at all or just trying to start an argument? I offered two solutions. If there's a huge problem with sticking one extra skill on your bars or remembering to fit it into a questing rotation, I seriously doubt that throwing in a deathstrike to stop yourself from dying and leaving a blood rune or two lying around while soloing is going to throw the whole world into disarray. :?
Posts
Yes, on beta it only requires blood presence and a GCD.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
In fact, you should be moving into harms way and using your AMS to get that runic power injection (e.g. stand in the fire on marrowgar)
Note you need the talent in unholy to do this now, it doesn't automatically give runic power.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Yeah, EJ also recommends putting a point in that talent. Did I mention EJ? EJ.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
There is never an excuse for playing below your best. WINNERS NEVER BACK DOWN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d3zNKNohN4&feature=related
Because new gear is going to give me more than 50 dps, and even if not, it doesn't require a specific way of playing. I just happen to acquire that gear in the course of doing instances, which are an end to themselves.
Adding in a ton of extra abilities to potentially use in very narrow situations for a tiny dps game, is not how I like to play.
every time you go 'eh it's only 50 dps'...
although i don't really understand choosing to play a DPS class and not trying to maximize your DPS, i don't even know why that would be fun
I don't suppose you raid a lot? People have a lot of different reasons for playing WoW. Trying to be the very best, or trying to progress the fastest, are nowhere on my list. I recognize that with a good amount of effort, I can reach maybe 95%+ of my max dps, but that last 5% takes waaaay more effort. It's not worth it. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I also wouldn't buy a Nostromo controller, and spend my days trying to theorycraft all possible activities and gear combinations to maximize my dps.
And Blizzard seems to think this is reasonable as well, as that's a significant reason for the new way talent trees are set up, to give more automatic dps, and make a smaller portion of dps, a result of talent choices.
Really not even close to the same league as "I'm gonna raid DPS with herbalism/mining as my professions!" or "I'm gonna gem for haste/crit instead of armpen because that's what I like!"
mostly it's the "pfeh 50 dps" attitude that i find kind of silly.
Especially since the context of the discussion, was about using an ability with extremely specific and precise timing.
But again, the dps gain is probably tiny(that's my assumption). I'd much rather finish out desecration than put the one point into the AMS talent, regardless of whether the idea is to stand in void zones or not.
I wanted to say something really mean, but decided to be civil, these are not the WoW forums, after all.
Taunt's mechanics make it completely useless as a method of pulling/gaining initial aggro. All it does is put you just above the highest threat the mob has. I believe it's the mob's target's threat +1. Death Grip is a better choice, as all it does is force your target to attack you for 3 seconds. In either case you must actually do some damage in order to actually keep the mob on you.
Plus you need them both off cooldown for those oh, crap moments. I posted the most effective burst threat lead in possible earlier. (DS, HS, BB, DS, DRW, ERW, DS, HS, HS, DS, now your off into normal priority, be sure to use Rune Tap often.) Do NOT use Rune Strike until you get DRW up (after the first DRW, use RS as much as you can). Glyphed that s a 50% increase in threat. The only person i have to fight to keep threat from is my pally offtank.
I think Bigboots is talking about tanking Heroics, where DPS will pull aggro before your AOE threat is firmly established, in which case you have to taunt the enemy that chases them frequently. In that circumstance though I just mash Blood Boil and I don't seem to lose threat, so that's something to try also.
For AoE threat Drop your DnD, Blood Boil as much as you can if you're fighting more than like 6mobs, otherwise HS, use your diseases, tab target RS/DS. If someone pulls threat let them eat it.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
srs.biz. plus you don't have a wonky pet to manage.
I should note that death grip and dark command work exactly the same (bar DG's yank effect) - they both taunt to match the highest threat and they both force the target to attack you for up to 3 seconds.
You could eat your ghoul once you get sufficiently low. What's wrong with deathstrikin'? Just burn the excess blood rune on a blood strike.
Have you played Unholy since the patch?
Death Strike does not fit into the Unholy rotation at all anymore. Unholy does U and BF, not B and FU like it used to. The only way to really use it is to burn your Death Runes on it.
That would involve having Blood Strike on your bars in the first place. Why would you be doing that?
His assumption was correct: No, there really isn't another reliable way to heal as Unholy and yes, DS is now clunky as hell to use.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun