Help understanding cells/winphone7 (Canada)

Kuroi Ookami

I'm located in Canada, have never owned a cellphone, want a Windows Phone 7, and have become very confused by the process of picking out a phone and the pre-paid plan to tack it onto (I can't do a contract).

My main choice is/was the LG Optimus Quantum, exclusive to Bell. I'm located in Manitoba, and the locations the Bell site gives me for my Province don't do cellphones/plans. I sent in a question through their online support asking if it was possible to have them send me a phone (to one of their nearest locations to me that doesn't deal in cellphones) that I intend to fully purchase. I'd even be willing to drive a Province over to go buy this phone but, further online browsing of news releases has lead me to this; "And because the LG Optimus Quantum operates exclusively on Bell Mobility's high-speed wireless network, users will enjoy coverage in more places and at the fastest speeds available." So, I guess that means even if I managed to get the phone I couldn't use it here since there's no place to set up a plan through Bell? (I didn't know this was possible, locking a phone to a particular network, I'm starting to learn about cellphones :P)

If the above means I can not get the LG Optimus Quantum, I'm trying to narrow it down between the Samsung Focus from Rogers, and the LG Optimus 7 from Telus (which I can't find on the website. Clicking the link from the Microsoft site takes me to a Telus page saying the page I want doesn't exist). If I need to choose between these two, which do I want? Pros/cons would be helpful.

If I get the Rogers one, or the Telus one, do I need to set up a plan with the company I bought the phone from, or could I choose a plan from Virgin, or Fido, or some other place, perhaps even my local phone provider (MTS does cellphone plans and I might then be able to bundle it with my internet)? I haven't heard about the others being locked to the Network of the Provider selling their particular version of the phone, but honestly... I haven't heard much about Windows Phone 7 releases and details.

Reasons I want a cellphone: I don't really use my home phone, I feel a pay as you go plan from a cell provider would be more suited to me, and then I also have the option of making or receiving calls while I'm out. I'd rather pay the same amount for a cell instead of my landline just due to the convenience it gives to me. The reason I want a Windows Phone 7 is that I have a 360 and a Live account, and it appeals to me that I can play games on my phone and potentially add to my achievement score while I'm enjoying those games.

I'm sure there are questions I have that I haven't thought of yet, so if anyone else thinks of them please feel free to point them out with the answers. Suggestions are very welcome too. I really want one of these Windows Phone 7 devices, but I am so intimidated and confused. Let the help/advise commence, thanks!

taliosfalcon

I could be wrong but Looking at bells coverage map it looks like their HSPA network, which that phone requires, only covers the city of Winnipeg itself, so unless you live in that city and never leave you're SOL. Looking at Telus' coverage they only cover the city of winnipeg too. Rogers covers the bottom quarter of manitoba but thats it, although it looks like that is the most populated area so you're probably there

Kuroi Ookami

Yes, I'm in Winnipeg. If/when I move, I'd just get set up with another Provider/plan. Problem is, if the phones are locked onto a Provider's Network, I guess I'm SOL?

Kyougu

I may be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure with Win 7 (or almost any smartphone) it's not possible to go the prepaid route. The reason for this is the required data plan, which I don't think most prepaid servicers provide.

vonPoonBurGer

Well, you can go prepaid with a smartphone, sort of. The phone is going to be more expensive up front, because the subsidized handset prices are usually half or less than what you'd pay for a contract-free phone. And you have to worry about prepaid minutes expiring. For Canada, the best deal I've seen are the Rogers $100 prepaid cards, because the minutes are good for a full year once the card is activated. And yeah, there's no data service, but everything on these phone tends to work with wifi it it's available.

My girlfriend went this route with an HTC smartphone, it was maybe $200 more expensive up front, but she's saving $350+ per year compared to a contract with data. Obviously there's some serious trade-offs involved. Once she leaves the wifi coverage of our house or her office, it's not really a smartphone anymore, just a phonephone. But that's Ok for her, all she really wants it to be outside of those locations is a phone for emergencies.

Zeon

The optimus 7 wont work in manitoba. Telus doesnt do HSPA there yet (according to howard forums anyway).

If you really want the bell phone, call bell customer service (310-bell). You will have to actually talk to someone, emailing wont work. Theres lots of stuff to decide when you set up a phone plan, especially for a smartphone. This is your only option if theres no bell mobility store near you. Or if there is, they can tell you where it is, because the website says there are none (i checked too).

Otherwise, your only choice is probably Rogers.

Pros cons of the phones? Well the Focus is apparently a pretty average phone all around. Nothing special, but nothing awful about it either. The Optimus 7 is apparently the best of breed Phone 7 device out right now, according to engadget. The only thing i know about the quantum is that the hardware apparently been out running android for a while now, and that might not even be true, i just remember hearing that. I would never buy a bell phone, personally, because bell has about the worst customer service ive ever encountered in my entire life. I had a Solo phone before bell bought them, and everything was great. Then all of a sudden my solo prepaid cards stopped working and bell told me they wouldnt honor them (even though the stores were still selling them...). I went out and signed up with Telus after my balance ran out.

Oh and you know if you get a windows 7 phone on prepaid youre gonna spend like 600 bucks right? You dont get subsidized unless you go on contract. And you cant get prepaid data with any of the major providers in canada as far as im aware either, so it means youre basically not going to have anything worth talking about once youre out of range of wifi. I think the live arcade stuff all works over the data network. How much do you pay for your landline? And how much did you think youd pay for a cellphone? Because a bare, bare minimum smartphone plan for someone with no previous customer history (and therefore no access to any loyalty incentives) is probably gonna be about 50/month. And thats gonna give you, frankly, a pretty shitty plan. Even if you go prepaid, the prepaid rates are pretty awful if you use your phone a lot, any more than about 30-45 minutes a week, or if you send a lot of texts, because you wont be getting free nights and weekends (you might be able to negotiate for it, but most likely not, all 3 companies are cracking down hard on cutting anyone deals, because of the "recession") or anything like that, and long distance costs an arm and a leg if you plan on using that.

Realistically, if you want to replace your home phone, and you want to go prepaid, it makes way more sense to get a "dumbphone", since you can get them cheap or free for a prepaid plan. But if youre deadset on getting a smartphone, youd be best to go on contract so you dont pay an arm and a leg for a phone thats basically a dumbphone while youre out of the house (because you have no data plan). But even then youre going to be paying most likely double for a plan thats comparable to all the features you get on your landline.

Kuroi Ookami

I have seen some of the plans for various places and you do have the option of adding in Data as an extra, but much like vonPoonBurGer's girlfriend, I just want to use that feature while I have access to free wifi (at home, in certain locations, at a friends place) so less worried about getting a plan that includes Data. When I'm out and about, I just want to be able to have the convenience of making/receiving calls.

To answer the question about contract vs outright buying the phone, I know it'll be expensive, and I've seen what those phones cost. I'm fine with paying that cost. I hope to move next year, overseas, so can't have a contract that I'd need to pass on to someone else. As much as pre-paid here isn't as popular in the States, so choosings may be more slim or more expensive, it's the route I'm still needing to go. And Zeon, sorry to hear about your experiences with Bell, that was a low thing for them to have done.

My home phone is probably about $30-$35 a month. It's bundled with my Internet so I get a total amount of both and don't pay it much attention besides just seeing amount owing so I can pay it. The extent of my using it consists of me answering a call about an appointment I have, me calling to make an appointment that I need, and friends calling to say they're on their way over/have arrived. It really doesn't get much use. I'd rather pay a bit more and get the convenience a cellphone would allow. So depending if I go with the one from Telus or Rogers, so long as they're not locked to the Network I can take it with me when I move. In the meanwhile, I'll get a simple plan, and enjoy playing the games it can offer me while I'm at a location that has wifi since I really don't want to add Data onto it.

Also Zeon, I don't understand what a HSPA is, but if the iPhone requires it, then Telus certainly has it here. My dad was saying he knows people with iPhones who are with Telus, and others with Rogers. I'd asked him if he knew if they were happy with Telus. All he knows is that when most of their contracts are up, they switch over to Rogers, but he didn't know why.

And I'd rather not get a simplistic "dumbphone" cellphone, I plan to own this thing for many years to come, it's my first ever cellphone, I'd like it to be one that I really want (or the second choice I guess), and it's like MS made a selection of phones for people like me :P

I'll see about giving Bell's Customer Service a call, see what they say. If it really is Network locked though then that's a shame really. It was my first choice and all. Afterwards, I'll call up the other 2, make sure they don't pull anything like that and then try to decide if I want the Telus or the Rogers one. I think I'll so a pre-paid with who ever I get the phone from, but I'd like to know I can still use it once I move, otherwise I just don't see the point.

Sorry if the flow is bad, or if any of it is incoherency, I've been up since rather early and I don't think fully awake yet.

And thanks so far for the input everyone ^^

vonPoonBurGer

Zeon wrote: »

Even if you go prepaid, the prepaid rates are pretty awful if you use your phone a lot, any more than about 30-45 minutes a week, or if you send a lot of texts, because you wont be getting free nights and weekends

With Rogers prepaid, nights and weekends aren't free but they can be super cheap on the evenings & weekends prepaid plan: 1 cent per minute between 8pm and 8am. Weekday minutes are expensive on that plan though, 39 cents a minute. The specific prepaid options can be found here. I believe texts are 15 cents each, unless you buy an extra texting pack. In order for a prepaid plan to become a truly terrible deal, you'd have to be using more than $600 worth of minutes and texts per year. My girlfriend barely spends more than $100/yr. on prepaid cards, so clearly it's working well for her. We're not big phone people though.

Kuroi Ookami wrote:

My dad was saying he knows people with iPhones who are with Telus, and others with Rogers. I'd asked him if he knew if they were happy with Telus. All he knows is that when most of their contracts are up, they switch over to Rogers, but he didn't know why.

My general sense of cell phone service providers is that they're all kind of terrible in their own ways. That said, I'd avoid Bell because their support is truly horrible, and I have a beef with Telus going back to when I lived in Vancouver, so I cannot recommend them either. The company I work for now provides us with phones through Rogers. The whole company switched over from Bell and the IT guys who manage all the phones are happy with the change. The phone users are pretty pleased too, Rogers gets much better reception, but that may be a function of our location. So my general impression is that Rogers is currently the least terrible, but for all I know they might have a weaker network in the west, or maybe their personal account support is a lot weaker than their corporate account support.

Kuroi Ookami wrote:

I hope to move next year, overseas

If you're planning to go overseas eventually, be very careful about what phone you pick. Most cell phone networks outside North America use GSM. Rogers also uses GSM, and Bell/Telus are in the midst of switching, so you might think "great, I'll just make sure I get a GSM phone!" Unfortunately it's not that simple. There are 14 frequency bands supported by the GSM spec, but carriers only need a few of them. So did carriers the world over agree on a common subset of the 14 possible frequencies? Of course not, that'd be too sensible! I'm not fully versed on the technical gubbins, but I know there's a reason that some phones are specifically listed as "quadband" or "world" phones. As always, Wikipedia has all sorts of handy details. I'm not sure what the radio specs are on the devices you're looking at, but if extended overseas travel is something you have planned then you definitely need to look into the overseas compatibility of your phone.

Kuroi Ookami

Kuroi Ookami wrote:

I hope to move next year, overseas

If you're planning to go overseas eventually, be very careful about what phone you pick. Most cell phone networks outside North America use GSM. Rogers also uses GSM, and Bell/Telus are in the midst of switching, so you might think "great, I'll just make sure I get a GSM phone!" Unfortunately it's not that simple. There are 14 frequency bands supported by the GSM spec, but carriers only need a few of them. So did carriers the world over agree on a common subset of the 14 possible frequencies? Of course not, that'd be too sensible! I'm not fully versed on the technical gubbins, but I know there's a reason that some phones are specifically listed as "quadband" or "world" phones. As always, Wikipedia has all sorts of handy details. I'm not sure what the radio specs are on the devices you're looking at, but if extended overseas travel is something you have planned then you definitely need to look into the overseas compatibility of your phone.

Wow, ok... so, is this something a Rep at Rogers would be able to give me answers to (likely going with Rogers at this point) or is he just going to make up crap I want to hear so I buy the phone and the plan with him?

If the Rep isn't going to know, or may lie to me, would the phone manufacturer be able to tell me what band, and possible know if it would work in the Country I plan to move to?

I had no idea it could be so complicated to pick a phone, and have that phone work for me once I move. Thanks for all the help so far ^^

vonPoonBurGer

The easiest thing to do is check the specs on any phone you're considering. If it supports 850, 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz, and the phone should work with something like 70% of the world. One big exception I can think of would be Japan. Looking at a couple of Rogers smartphones, I'm actually thinking my concerns may be outdated. I looked at a sampling of recent smartphones (Samsung Galaxy S & Focus, iPhone 3GS & 4) on the Rogers website, and they all specifically listed all four of those frequencies in the specifications.

Kuroi Ookami

I found this handy map http://www.worldtimezone.com/gsm.html and located where I plan to move to, compared it to the Samsung Focus' listed GSM Bands, and everything looks good there ^^

I'm still sad that I can't get my first choice of cell, but I'm off to find reviews of the Focus to see if it's one I'd be happy with. Besides picking out the phone, I guess this can be considered solved. Though if anyone would like to chip in comments or impressions of the Windows Phone 7, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks again!

*edit* checking on some forums, people are saying that the Samsung Focus is Network locked to Rogers. I'm going to guess the Telus ones are locked to Telus as well. If this is true... is there a way to unlock them, legally, or is that a grey area? I really want one of these phones, but I'm hoping to move after April of next year, and want my phone to be usable once I've moved, and not have to wait until I've moved to get one of these.

Zeon

Well if youre just going to go prepaid why dont you order whatever phone you want online and then just unlock it (or buy a pre-unlocked one from ebay)?

I just got a WP7, and i like it so far (I got the LG Optimus 7 on Telus). Theres a thread in the Stupid Technology sub-forum thatd probably be more helpful with actual impressions though.