Bill Gates vs. Apple: "You lying liars!"

Terrorbyte

The interview: Finally, Vista Makes its Debut. Now What?

[quote=Gizmodo]Now that the wow has officially started, Bill Gates managed to take some time out and sit down with with Newsweek's Steven Levy to talk about what we can expect from Microsoft's next operating system and what he thinks of those Mac vs PC ads. So what did Gates have to say about Apple....

Gates on the Mac ads

"I don't know why [Apple is] acting lie it's superior. I don't even get it. "If you just want to say, 'Steve Jobs invented the world, and then the rest of us came along,' that's fine.

Gates on the next version of Windows

"It will be more user-centric. If you drop by a [public] kiosk or somebody else's PC, we can bring down your home page, your files, your fonts, your favorites and those things."

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

[/quote]

Dude is a total Windows fanboy.

thorgot

Terrorbyte wrote:

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

ahahahaha oh man. I mean, I love Windows and all, but still.

Ritchmeister

I sometimes dislike Windows operating systems, but I'd let Bill Gates give me a rimjob anyday. Hell make it a reacharound aswell.

LockeCole

thorgot wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

ahahahaha oh man. I mean, I love Windows and all, but still.

Posting prevented on account of manaical laughter

chaossoldier

thorgot wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

ahahahaha oh man. I mean, I love Windows and all, but still.

Translation: Slow down from three times a week on Windows, we can't keep up with the patches

TSU0999

thorgot wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

ahahahaha oh man. I mean, I love Windows and all, but still.

Ah...good ol'Bill

ZackSchilling

Why would you counter hyperbole with hyperbole? Had he taken the high road on this one, I would have respected him a lot more.

[spoiler:94d83cc00c]Taking all bets. Page 4 has 8:1 odds running.[/spoiler:94d83cc00c]

deadonthestreet

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

ben0207

Oh wow. That's one of those quotes that's never going to be forgotten.

Terrorbyte

Bill's most inexplicable anti-Mac dig:

...and they [Apple] had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?

yalborap

deadonthestreet wrote:

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

At the same time, a good Mac ad is kinda...Tricky.

SniperGuy

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

Terrorbyte

yalborap wrote:

deadonthestreet wrote:

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

At the same time, a good Mac ad is kinda...Tricky.

Nah, it's pretty easy. Get a reasonably attractive girl, get her stoned and have her blather on about floaty buttons or some such.

victor_c26

thorgot wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Gates on Vista's Security

Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.

ahahahaha oh man. I mean, I love Windows and all, but still.

He had me till the last quote. Don't poke the bear Bill, don't poke the fucking bear.

japan

Terrorbyte wrote:

Bill's most inexplicable anti-Mac dig:

...and they [Apple] had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?

Some kind of allusion to Xerox PARC? Most of the basic WIMP interface concepts were developed there.

FaceballMcDougal

They both steal from each other

I can remember a press conference where Steve was pimping Apple's iTunes version change... that made it look EXACTLY like what they did to WMP a while before.

I thought it was funny because he had just got done blasting Vista for taking a cue from OSX

the dude has serious inferiority issues and he needs to stop honestly

Cilla Black

yalborap wrote:

deadonthestreet wrote:

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

At the same time, a good Mac ad is kinda...Tricky.

Yeah but you'd think the idea would be to reach the mac out of the select environment it sells in and broaden the market share. Instead the commercials seem to be designed only for pretentious people who already own macs to chuckle at the stupid PC owners while they adjust their berets and order another frappucino.

ZackSchilling

deadonthestreet wrote:

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

Yeah, they are, but to the people who don't know any better, they ring true. There are things computer novices can accomplish in iLife on a Mac that they'd probably never be able to do under Windows. It's not because of some flaw in Windows or that Windows doesn't have apps that can accomplish the same things, it's that the apps aren't nearly as easy or fun to use and they don't come pre-installed.

But yeah, the ads are hyperbole oversimplified to the point where all the legitimate points that could have been made are lost.

Terrorbyte

japan wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Bill's most inexplicable anti-Mac dig:

...and they [Apple] had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?

Some kind of allusion to Xerox PARC? Most of the basic WIMP interface concepts were developed there.

Xerox PARC deserves all the credit for their GUI research, but the myth that Apple cut-and-pasted their work and Microsoft merely did the same thing to Apple really needs to be reexamined. In fairness to Apple's early GUI developers, they used Xerox's research and proof-of-concept to develop the modern OS interface in a usable manner and deserve more credit than they get.

ZackSchilling

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

Terrorbyte

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

It would've made a lot more sense for Gates to go after Apple's patchin' team rather than call out ANY other operating system on the market for general security. Windows has the most frequent occurence of security problems, but they also patch and fix very quickly. Well, most of the time, at least.

FaceballMcDougal

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

I think Bill's talking about some pretty advanced techniques for breaking into a system that you want access to... when he says "security guys" you have to remember the "security guys" he knows are the kind of people that governments fear... not kids who want to make a worm and put it on the interwebs.

victor_c26

Terrorbyte wrote:

japan wrote:

Terrorbyte wrote:

Bill's most inexplicable anti-Mac dig:

...and they [Apple] had what we were doing, user interface-wise. Let’s be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about where those interface concepts came from?

Some kind of allusion to Xerox PARC? Most of the basic WIMP interface concepts were developed there.

Xerox PARC deserves all the credit for their GUI research, but the myth that Apple cut-and-pasted their work and Microsoft merely did the same thing to Apple really needs to be reexamined. In fairness to Apple's early GUI developers, they used Xerox's research and proof-of-concept to develop the modern OS interface in a usable manner and deserve more credit than they get.

Of course, but people need to realize that Apple isn't this holy entity in the OS developing world.

Fencingsax

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

This is due more to the fact that Microsoft's market share is so much larger. If you're going to be an anonymous asshole, you want to piss of as many people as possible.

Threepio

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

Jesus Bill, I realize that you're a little miffed with being riffed on by John Hodgeman - but anyone with even a tenuous grasp of reality knows this isn't the truth.

I'm running Vista and OS X on both my Macbook and my iMac and I can tell you straight which one I feel more comfortable leaving connected up to the great black hole that is the internets. I'll give you three guess which - and the answer ain't Vista.

ben0207

To be fair though, we shouldn't really expect a fair interview.

I mean, you know what the MS in MSNBC stands for, right?

[spoiler:8ec9d9a1f6]Misinformed Shite[/spoiler:8ec9d9a1f6]

Fencingsax

ben0207 wrote:

To be fair though, we shouldn't really expect a fair interview.

I mean, you know what the MS in MSNBC stands for, right?

[spoiler:8d5ed884e3]Misinformed Shite[/spoiler:8d5ed884e3]

Also, what else would Bill say? Are we surprised that he proclaims Vista to be Awesome?

fireside

Fencingsax wrote:

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

This is due more to the fact that Microsoft's market share is so much larger. If you're going to be an anonymous asshole, you want to piss of as many people as possible.

But just think about how much more famous the anonymous asshole will be when he writes the first successful Mac virus as opposed to the 13829th Windows virus.

Pancake

Threepio wrote:

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

Jesus Bill, I realize that you're a little miffed with being riffed on by John Hodgeman - but anyone with even a tenuous grasp of reality knows this isn't the truth.

I'm running Vista and OS X on both my Macbook and my iMac and I can tell you straight which one I feel more comfortable leaving connected up to the great black hole that is the internets. I'll give you three guess which - and the answer ain't Vista.

Not that I'm defending anything at all, but your personal level of comfort means exactly what to how secure anything actually is?

Fencingsax

fireside wrote:

Fencingsax wrote:

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

This is due more to the fact that Microsoft's market share is so much larger. If you're going to be an anonymous asshole, you want to piss of as many people as possible.

But just think about how much more famous the anonymous asshole will be when he writes the first successful Mac virus as opposed to the 13829th Windows virus.

Mac viruses already exist. The reason why they don't propogate as much is because there are fewer people with Macs for these viruses to affect. Also, would you rather be the guy that Crippled whole businesses, or the on that affected fewer people?

Terrorbyte

victor_c26 wrote:

Of course, but people need to realize that Apple isn't this holy entity in the OS developing world.

Oh, I agree completely. Personally, I love Ars Technica's A History of the GUI, since it notes the contributions of lots of dudes:

The history of the development of the graphical user interface is a long and complicated tale. While it is easy to find individuals like Douglas Engelbart and Alan Kay who made great contributions to advancing the state of the art, the truth of the story is that the GUI was developed by many different people over a long period of time. Saying that "Apple invented the GUI" or "Apple ripped off the idea from PARC" is overly simplistic, but saying that "Xerox invented the GUI" is equally so. In fact each team borrowed liberally from all GUIs that had been created in the past, added their own unique contributions, and paved the way for other teams to move forward in the future.

But, really, Apple and Xerox shared and licensed lots of technologies. Microsoft just swooped in and stole the entire look and feel of MacOS from the day Windows 2.0 launched 'til now. Is that a bad thing? Not at all. It's like car manufacturers taking design cues from their competitors. But, they should still get mercilessly called out for it.

victor_c26

Threepio wrote:

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

Jesus Bill, I realize that you're a little miffed with being riffed on by John Hodgeman - but anyone with even a tenuous grasp of reality knows this isn't the truth.

I'm running Vista and OS X on both my Macbook and my iMac and I can tell you straight which one I feel more comfortable leaving connected up to the great black hole that is the internets. I'll give you three guess which - and the answer ain't Vista.

You have a router, an anti-virus app, and an anti-malware app installed right? If you do, you shouldn't have a problem with Vista, or with XP for that matter.

If you're talking about browsing the net without an anti-virus app, router, an anti-malware app, and surfing around the net without a care, I agree: OSX and Linux is superior in this regard.

japan

Threepio wrote:

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

He may be referring to the month of Apple bugs, where some guy decided to release an exploit for OSX every day for a month. There is considerable debate concerning the severity of the things he was finding though, since a lot of them are just ways to remotely crash or DNS a machine. The bugs that people get upset about in Windows tend to be of the "allows remote execution of arbitrary code" variety.

Cilla Black

fireside wrote:

Fencingsax wrote:

ZackSchilling wrote:

SniperGuy wrote:

Well...really, I can't think of exploits like that that someone can find hugely every day for a windows computer.

I mean, little bugs, yes, but security exploits? And even on vista?

Macs just aren't hacked as often, so if people turn their attention to them I can see that being entirely possible.

I'm not so sure. You'd think that Mac users would have seen at least ONE attempted virus or trojan or worm, but so far, all attempts have failed to gain any sort of momentum. There were a few "trojans" floating around on P2P networks that deleted the user's home directory when run, but they didn't install anything on the user's machine or attempt to proliferate.

This is due more to the fact that Microsoft's market share is so much larger. If you're going to be an anonymous asshole, you want to piss of as many people as possible.

But just think about how much more famous the anonymous asshole will be when he writes the first successful Mac virus as opposed to the 13829th Windows virus.

Has there really been absolutely no successful mac viruses, or are they just so rare as to be ignored? I find the former extremely hard to believe. There are some goddamn talented anonymous assholes out there.

DietarySupplement

japan wrote:

Threepio wrote:

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

He may be referring to the month of Apple bugs, where some guy decided to release an exploit for OSX every day for a month. There is considerable debate concerning the severity of the things he was finding though, since a lot of them are just ways to remotely crash or DNS a machine. The bugs that people get upset about in Windows tend to be of the "allows remote execution of arbitrary code" variety.

And also, there's a very large difference in the "bugs that I have to download and run to function" versus "I visited this website and OH SHI-"

japan

DietarySupplement wrote:

japan wrote:

Threepio wrote:

Every day - someone writes a new exploit that can totally defeat the security system in OS X?

The fuck?

He may be referring to the month of Apple bugs, where some guy decided to release an exploit for OSX every day for a month. There is considerable debate concerning the severity of the things he was finding though, since a lot of them are just ways to remotely crash or DNS a machine. The bugs that people get upset about in Windows tend to be of the "allows remote execution of arbitrary code" variety.

And also, there's a very large difference in the "bugs that I have to download and run to function" versus "I visited this website and OH SHI-"

Yeah, there's a couple in there that can only be performed when you're physically sitting at the machine. If a malicious person can go right ahead and sit at a machine with valuable data on it, I'd imagine you have bigger security problems than a local privilege escalation exploit.

FaceballMcDougal

again I don't think Bill is talking about worms or viruses

when a guy like Bill Gates says "security guys" he means people that get paid to break into systems

there's a world of difference between a virus and a guy on the other end of the network trying to break into your machine and kill ur mans

Æthelred

The malicious audio file ordering your computer to delete files amused me the most.

Blueknight78c

Zilla84 wrote:

yalborap wrote:

deadonthestreet wrote:

The current Mac ads are kind of bullshit to be fair.

At the same time, a good Mac ad is kinda...Tricky.

Yeah but you'd think the idea would be to reach the mac out of the select environment it sells in and broaden the market share. Instead the commercials seem to be designed only for pretentious people who already own macs to chuckle at the stupid PC owners while they adjust their berets and order another frappucino.

Memo to Apple: This is how you make an interesting computer commercial.

The current mac ads are too similar to the old "Switch" ads (person/people against white background). And are nothing more than saying, "We're better than you." Also, I HATE Justin Long (ever since Jeepers Creepers), so that alone makes these ads horrible to me.

japan

FaceballMcDougal wrote:

again I don't think Bill is talking about worms or viruses

when a guy like Bill Gates says "security guys" he means people that get paid to break into systems

there's a world of difference between a virus and a guy on the other end of the network trying to break into your machine and kill ur mans

Not really. Unless we're talking about brute force password cracking or social engineering (which have nothing to do with the OS), the viruses/worms will be exploiting the same flaws as a determined hacker after an individual system. The virus or worm is just a automated piece of software targetting a specific hole.

victor_c26

Æthelred wrote:

The malicious audio file ordering your computer to delete files amused me the most.

Ahaha, that was mentioned in the last episode of DL.TV.

You'd need to have a microphone connected and unmuted though.