Physical stagnation with girlfriend
Cherry Picker
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I've been going out with a girl for approximately three months now. I was friends with her for about two years prior to us going out. I am 20, and this is my first "real" relationship, in which I can honestly say I love her. This is also the first relationship for her.
While everything is perfect between us on an intellectual and emotional level, I feel things aren't moving forward physically. She's a very conservative Christian, and she lives at home with her parents (as do I), so we don't really get much time alone. She's also extremely shy, and terrible about giving the correct signs. After the first date, for example, she gave me signs that she didn't want to kiss (arms crossed, rushing to the door, not making eye contact), but I went for it anyways. Afterwards she told me that she really wanted to kiss me, but she was just nervous.
Anyway, we've kissed quite a bit, mostly in my car, but I'm unsure of how to go about taking the next step without making her feel uncomfortable. By next step, I don't mean sex, but I feel like we should be doing something more, if that makes sense? I know I should be the one to take the next step, but I haven't... it's like I just can't find the right time, and I'm afraid that's more because of my tepidness, not because the "right" time hasn't presented itself. I mean, we've cuddled quite a few times on the couch, watching a movie, perfectly alone, and then afterwards we continue to cuddle for hours in the dark; I'm sure that would be a perfect time to progress, but I don't. I get really nervous too (going in for that first kiss was seriously the ballsiest thing I've ever done).
Like I said, this is our first relationship, so I don't think either of us really know what we're doing. And while I know there isn't some timeline that every relationship needs to adhere to, ours has been the same for the last two months, and I'm started getting... antsy? I'm a twenty year old male, and to put it bluntly, I'm horny as hell.
Any advice at all would be much appreciated.
While everything is perfect between us on an intellectual and emotional level, I feel things aren't moving forward physically. She's a very conservative Christian, and she lives at home with her parents (as do I), so we don't really get much time alone. She's also extremely shy, and terrible about giving the correct signs. After the first date, for example, she gave me signs that she didn't want to kiss (arms crossed, rushing to the door, not making eye contact), but I went for it anyways. Afterwards she told me that she really wanted to kiss me, but she was just nervous.
Anyway, we've kissed quite a bit, mostly in my car, but I'm unsure of how to go about taking the next step without making her feel uncomfortable. By next step, I don't mean sex, but I feel like we should be doing something more, if that makes sense? I know I should be the one to take the next step, but I haven't... it's like I just can't find the right time, and I'm afraid that's more because of my tepidness, not because the "right" time hasn't presented itself. I mean, we've cuddled quite a few times on the couch, watching a movie, perfectly alone, and then afterwards we continue to cuddle for hours in the dark; I'm sure that would be a perfect time to progress, but I don't. I get really nervous too (going in for that first kiss was seriously the ballsiest thing I've ever done).
Like I said, this is our first relationship, so I don't think either of us really know what we're doing. And while I know there isn't some timeline that every relationship needs to adhere to, ours has been the same for the last two months, and I'm started getting... antsy? I'm a twenty year old male, and to put it bluntly, I'm horny as hell.
Any advice at all would be much appreciated.
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Personally I find waiting for marriage silly. What if you got married and decided you weren't that into each other in bed? That would suck. Plus people tend to stick with someone just so they can get married and get some action, which is totally the wrong motivation. It must also be disappointing to be terrible in bed your first time, which pretty much everyone is, right after you got married.
If you need some sexins, go get it somewhere else, date other people, this is your first relationship, you probably don't even know what you want in someone enough to decide you love them.
but they're listening to every word I say
Then get to fucking, because life is short and sex is god's apology for bad weather. Also I'm not sure how else to interpret "cuddling in the dark" other then "why aren't your hands being adventurous" or something, but then again I'm not a hardcore Christian who lives with my parents. (Ed. - I say this to illustrate how important communication is, she might be wondering why the fuck your penis is in your pants still or she might be blissfully snuggling with her future husband, you need to know)
Obligatory "your first few times will suck horrendously but sex is easy and gets better quickly" comment. Also if you're of the mind that putting your penis in a naturally lubricated area is too sinful and you must save that region for marriage, get proper lube and use it and go slowly and carefully with either choice.
And remember, if she's uncomfortable talking about it or it's an issue of self esteem or some such then go ahead and try to ease her through it and be understanding up to a point if you want to. However also keep in mind that you're not her therapist and it's not your responsibility (or even appropriate because a therapist isn't supposed to be dating the patient, never mind you being unqualified) to work through this with her. If you do decide to end it and move on (there are other women out there, she's not your "soul mate"), just be respectful of her feelings but honest. Don't make up bullshit excuses about why you're ending the relationship. You can be honest without being a dick.
That's all it comes down to, though: communicating boundaries. Regardless of who you're dating, you will both need to be able to do this to have a healthy relationship no matter how far you plan to go or how long you plan to wait.
If she is hesitant on an emotional level (insecure, nervous, etc.) you need to be very careful about what you say to her. You aren't exactly a neutral party and rushing her into a decision she isn't prepared to make is likely to cause unintended emotional consequences.
Sounds like you need to have a very carefully worded and respectful chat about your inentions and her values in regards to taking your relationship to that level.
Progression is the key; you can't just jump in all handsy like a horny Doc Oc, but you can start in the safe zones and make small sweeps in land so to speak. You'll be redirected through gestures or positioning if you've gone too far, and for the most part it means 'not yet' and one should feel free to try again when the situation or arousal level has changed. Consider twice to be a yellow flag, and don't be a dick about it.
I'm trying to think of a good beginners guide, but its been a while. I suppose I would say that wherever you've kissed is fair game to touch, in so far as you can start at the neck and work down, or start at the knee and work up. You'll also hit general arousal blocks, which is to say that its all been very nice, but its starting to be a bit much and maybe everyone should just cool thier jets for a bit. As time goes on and boundaries become more established, you should be able to cause, predict and avoid these events.
Seduction is its own game, so I'm not going to bother with it unless you specifically ask for advice in that area.
Above all its fun! Learning this stuff is fun! Go have fun! These are good times m'man, enjoy them!
It is unclear from the OP, are you also a conservative christian living with your parents or are you also living with your parents but not conservative christian?
I ask because if you are also a conservative christian and possibly interested in dating primarily conservative christian women you may find this to be a common problem. I had a roommate who was part of a very conservative church (she wasn't conservative in her beliefs but she hung out with some interesting people) and was shocked to find out that some of her friends considered french kissing before marriage to be sinful.
Is this copyrighted? I just need to know who to send the check to when I use it.
Ask her about her stance on being more intimate than you currently are. I was friends with quite a few "very conservative Christians" while attending university, and not one of them would go past first base before marriage, let alone have sex.
You need to find out how far she wants to go here, because if she is a "very conservative Christian," the answer is probably "not much farther."
My roommate, for example, dated a girl who was in his Christian group for several months and only made it to hand-holding. In fact, a lot of his friends were getting married in their very early twenties for the sole reason that they wanted to have sex. They told me this straight up.
Edit: And just to clarify, it seems as if most of you are treating this like the OP said his girlfriend is simply Christian. Conservative Christianity, by its very definition, means she is very likely against sex before marriage. Talk to her about this, but do not pressure her into having sex or going further than she believes is appropriate for your relationship. Chances are, you could easily pressure into having sex if she's as timid and submissive as you make her out to be, but she'll resent you for that and your relationship would be basically downhill from there.
If you talk to her openly about what you would like out of this relationship, and she says she doesn't want to go further until marriage, you're better off looking elsewhere. There are plenty of fish out there who will more closely follow your own values, so you don't need to try to change this girl's to match.
Edit:edit: And by "better off looking elsewhere" I mean it seems like you're not interested in waiting until marriage to begin with. If you are, more power to you.
+ I am liberal and open to religion. I also live at home with my parents (sorry if I didn't write that clearly).
+ I don't think I would have a problem with waiting until marriage to have sex, but I definitely would want to do a bit more than just kiss.
+ Tonight we're grabbing dinner and then going to my place to watch a movie. My mother is out of town until Friday, so if the mood is right I'm going to try and progress things. And by that, I don't mean I'm going to start grabbing her ass and dry humping her; I'll be delicate and test the boundaries, as you guys have recommended, and try to read her body language and react accordingly. If she indicates that she wants me to stop, then I can use that to segue into a conversation on where we both stand on physical intimacy.
I'll update you guys tomorrow. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it!
Don't just go for it
Ask her what she's comfortable with
This can apply to several things. If you're a teenager that giggles when sex is brought up: Not ready to bone.
If it's so early in the relationship that talking about sex is awkward: Not ready to bone.
You want to do "insert link here" but you can't bring it up: Not ready to bone.
If you can have an adult conversation about all the sex you want to be having with your partner, and talking about the consequences of that sex: Bone until you can't bone anymore.
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she'll let you know when it's too far
Just no.
Do you give her massages? These are a good way to get more intimate, if she's into that...and I'm not even necessarily talking about getting to second base...Let her know that you enjoy touching her in other ways, and there's a good chance she'll want you to touch her *in that way* too.
But yes...talk to her about it...not necessarily about "naughty touching" to use an elementary school term, but possibly about comfort level, and what she's theoretically comfortable with in a committed long-term non-marital relationship...and what she's comfortable with with you now...and what you're comfortable with.
Edit: Oh, and make sure that she knows that you're okay with waiting for sex, if that's what it needs to be. Make sure she knows it, and make sure she knows that she can trust you to hold to that and not be insistent about it (and make sure that you *are* going to, and *aren't* going to be, she doesn't deserve that if you are, and you don't deserve having to wait if you are) even if she's vulnerable and/or drunk or whatever.
Agreed. Three girls in a row told you it's a terrible idea. You might want to go with that. Just talk to her first.
It's probably not a good idea to "get handsy" in any way, shape, or form. Who wants to be treated like a piece of meat?
It is interesting that three girls mentioned talking before simply trying. Is that personal preference? Because my personal experience has been totally opposite of that; I started out my sexual career extremely hesitant (and conservative christian, interestingly enough), always asking, always checking. I was told 'don't ask, just do' so many times by so many different girls, I eventually changed to the 'just be aware, go slow and with the flow' model.
I always thought it a shame chilvary was dead, but changing over certainly produced more confident, progressive results with an emphasis on tactile feedback (ie getting very good at reading body signals) vs the stuttering shamble and mixed bag of verbal signals (again, IMHE).
Why the eggshells? The religion thing? I mean sure, probably good to talk and get an overall view, but along with the tales of virginal purity up in here, I would also add that my first few girlfriends were all pretty churchy, and all but one didn't mind rounding the bases. I lost my virginity to the sunday school teacher for fucks sakes. Believe me when I tell you, the boundaries are different for everyone.
I'm just not sure I understand the 'talk it out first' perspective, can someone fill me in?
Once you know those answers then you can decide a method. Since OP doesn't know what her boundries are, he needs to ask rather than do. If you've already talked it over and she's "okay with anything" then the tactile feedback/reading body signals/stopping at no is fine. That also doesn't mean manhandle her, which I think might be a large issue. It's one thing to romanticize and have some foreplay, it's another thing entirely to grope someone outright to 'test the waters'.
If her answer isn't what you want don't get huffy and pushy.
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There's an enormous difference between a woman who's experienced and aware enough of what she wants in sex and is able to communicate that clearly and with confidence vs a young woman who's presumably a virgin as well as being shy and apparently reticent about discussing sex. Are you unable to see that what works for a confident, experienced woman isn't necessarily the right approach with an inexperienced woman? Like you said yourself, the boundaries are different for everyone and it's silly to presume he should just dive in and wait for her to say stop if she's uncomfortable.
I was just thinking about that. Yes, of course, that makes perfect sense. It's been a while since I bothered with inexperienced partners; even at the time when that would have been appropriate, I still always preferred the one's already knowledgable and comfortable with themselves. Can't believe I missed that, it puts what ceres and the others were saying into new light as well, thank you Druhim.
So I took her to dinner last night and told her how I felt and inquired into how she felt about such things. It wasn't really awkward at all, I just always build things up in my head until it becomes some big thing. Basically, she is okay with doing things before marriage... and, uh, let's just say last night was a lot of fun. A lot of fun.
One thing led to another and we wound up having sex, and it was a lot better than I expected, even though we didn't complete for reasons I will elaborate on now. We seem to have run into a slight issue, and that is fitting inside her. I have an average sized penis (the girth is slightly above, I believe), and it was extremely tight inside. We took it slowly but I stopped because it was causing her discomfort.
Is this one of those things that is common for all virgins and it will gradually become less tight? And how can we alleviate it in the meantime? I don't really want to have sex if it hurts her.
Take things slow, hands and mouths are great substitutes and you can have lots of fun with or without intercourse. If you try again and it's uncomfortable, back off, and try something else. Eventually it will come as second nature.
Glad things are working out! Hope she had lots of fun too.
Damn.
Well, all's well that ends well, I suppose.
I never claimed that her position was "no sex until marriage". That was inferred by other posters from her being a conservative Christian.
@Phisti: Yeah I'll definitely focus on whatever is most gentle next time. Ask her and see what works for her. Should I use a certain kind of lube? Last night I just used a lubricated condom, but maybe that wasn't enough?
And double good for you for having the sense to wrap it up! :^:
Now other things: yep, especially if she's nervous it will be a bit tight. You might want to try going down on her, or just lots of foreplay to relax her. Lube will also help, and it's fun to experiment! Stay away from the flavored or hot/cold tingly ones, stick with something basic like Astroglide that you can pick up at the drugstore.
And it's probably a good time to ask her how she feels about hormonal birth control, it's a bit more reliable than just rubbers and if you're going to be fucking like bunnies you can't be too safe.
Regarding your concern, were you wearing a condom, or were you planning on putting one on after a little while or something? The lube from the condom will help immensely with initial entry, but in general she will be tighter because she is nervous.
it will make things much more comfortable and fun as well as reducing the risk of a condom tearing
Well, it dries out after you get into it, change positions, etc. If she's too tight for initial entry and he's wearing a lubricated condom, the answer isn't to squirt a bunch more lube on his dick. Sure, you'll need it for when it does dry out, but I'm guessing the problem is just nerves/first-time.