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Can appealing a speeding ticket result in a higher fine?
Delzhand
Agrias Fucking OaksRegistered User, Transition Team regular
Agrias Fucking OaksRegistered User, Transition Team regular
My car got photographed by a traffic camera in DC, and I got the notification in the mail a few days later. I live in Greensboro NC, but DC offers mail adjudication. When I mentioned my plan to appeal the ticket, my boss said that might end up making it worse. I asked if there was some sort of 'time-wasting' fine or something, and she just shrugged.
Here's the defense statement I was planning on using. It's not a great defense, I'll admit, but I was under the impression that it couldn't hurt to try. Could it be worse? Is it even worth doing?
Here's the defense statement I was planning on using. It's not a great defense, I'll admit, but I was under the impression that it couldn't hurt to try. Could it be worse? Is it even worth doing?
I received this ticket in the mail following my Jan. 16th trip to Washington, D.C. from Greensboro, NC. As I was unfamiliar with the area and searching for a destination in the city, I was focused on street signs and addresses, and did not see a posted speed limit sign. I felt I was traveling at a safe and reasonable speed given
A) the traffic in this area, which was non-existent at the time
the road conditions, which were clear
Both of these claims are supported by the photographs included with the ticket notification. In light of these claims, I respectfully request that the fine be reduced or dropped.
A) the traffic in this area, which was non-existent at the time
the road conditions, which were clearBoth of these claims are supported by the photographs included with the ticket notification. In light of these claims, I respectfully request that the fine be reduced or dropped.
Delzhand on
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How fast were you traveling?
According to the ticket, 39 in a 25.
You don't get a higher fine for attempting to contest your ticket though. It's on a set scale.
It is your job to notice and obey all posted speed signs. You'd have to find a lenient judge on a very good day to admit you broke the law, but hey, the street was clear. But I am not a lawyer.
However, I don't believe they can give you a higher fine
edit: Just pay the ticket. You can't even count on the officer not arriving to testify because it was an infallible machine. And no, you can't argue the machine is fallible.
http://www.dccourts.gov/dccourts/superior/community_courts.jsp
I'd say just pay the ticket. Unless it's an absurd penalty. I know some places add on reckless driving or something similar if you're more than 10mph over. And sometimes you can appeal THAT and pay just the speeding fee and avoid the extra points on your license.
But maybe I'll just pay it. The penalty doubles after 30 days, so if it gets held up at any point I'm fucked.
Also holy shit dude, I'm in Greensboro too
You might save 20 bucks.
Probably best to just pay the ticket and not waste your gas and time.
edit: you pay the court fees as part of the ticket already and those can't be reduced. Your defense isn't good, so they won't drop it, but like I said, they may reduce the actual amount by a bit if you go plead guilty.
edit edit: so yeah, they don't slap you with extra fees.
but they're listening to every word I say
Is this true in DC or where you live? Because in MA you have to pay extra money just to talk to a judge and in NJ you can pay the ticket or go to court. And once in court you pay court fees no matter what, even if your ticket isn't lowered, and you wouldn't pay those court costs if you didn't go to court.
Wow, what part? I'm just south of 40 (I've been told it's the ghetto, but it's not bad at all and there's a lot of higher end cars in the parking lot).
Dunno how it is in other states, but you can do a "Guilty w/ Reason. . ." which is essentially "I'm guilty but. . ."
Probably for the best. The only thing I'd suggest is pleading No Contest (if it's available) instead of guilty. It may be different in DC, but here in Oregon, the last time I checked (which was quite a while ago) a guilty plea will affect your insurance more than a no contest plea.
I ask because most (if not all) similar camera setups in Texas (red light cameras) are civil citations; you pay the fine, or contest, but since it's not a criminal citation, it's not reported to insurance or anyone. It's deters red light running not because of the fine (although that helps_, but because being a civil matter, the state has less to prove to prove you're guilty.
No judge is going to look kindly at that reasoning. If you want to make sure you don't get that fine reduced or dismissed, say just that.
I'm unclear if you'll actually make it before a judge, but if you do, it's possible you might be grossly incompetent in your defense, and he could easily charge you more. Or the judge could think you've wasted the court's time by an 'I didn't know' defense, and charge you for wasting time. Or any number of other things. It's possible, though probably not very likely.
Ignorance of the law almost never works, and neither does 'stranger in a strange land,' unless you have an exotic accent and a really, really smooth talker. But if that was the case, I'm sure you'd plead your case in front of the public defender and they'd let you off with a much reduced fine.
The prosecutor, or the public defender, will probably offer to lower your fine a couple of times before you go before the judge.
If you're going to defend your innocence and go in front of a judge, you must have the mindset that you weren't speeding at all. If you even remotely admit that you possibly may have not been doing the speed limit, the prosecutor will murder you in court. Remember, they're paid to do this all day long. Even if you have a lawyer, saying you might have been not doing the speed limit will pretty much lose your case. This goes without saying, and happens regardless of it being a speeding ticket or murder charge. You MUST maintain your innocence that you were not speeding, and let them prove that you were speeding, and that it wasn't another car that was caught, or whatever
If you really don't want to be convicted, or have to pay or whatever you want to phrase it as, get a lawyer. They'll get the evidence that the public defender will use against you. If you don't, you could easily be broadsided by evidence and lose. Or you can spend a lot of your time trying to get that evidence. It's a matter of your time, really.
they don't as there is no way to prove who was driving
Those machines are really just a way to get revenue from people passing through or visiting. The "I'm not from around here" defense probably won't get you far, unfortunately. Everyone that lives here knows exactly where those damn things are and slams on their brakes appropriately.
I've had the total opposite experience from Darkwolfe. I've contested a few DC parking tickets (including one where the woman wrote me a ticket as I was getting into my car) and never gotten anything out of it. I'd just do whatever I could to avoid getting the thing doubled. At least it wasn't a cop and at least you didn't get points or a black mark on your insurance.
Best of luck
You don't admit guilt, you don't lie about anything. You simply suggest that the camera might not be correct. Many states are now throwing out contested tickets from any cameras, for any reason. Worst case scenario with the response above is that it's denied and you pay.
Also, the DC streets are laid out fantastically well for a city. They're complicated to suburban and rural drivers, but man, try driving in a city that wasn't planned out as well.
Machines can be fallible if they're not calibrated properly. That's all he needs to contest, it's the same reason DUI lawyers can usually get you out of a guilty plee for DUI, those machines are notoriously faulty.
I've been tagged by those "automatic" machines that show you your speed for doing 50 when I was stopped at a stop sign. Not sure how that worked.
Genetrally, automated camera tickets (whether speed camera or red light camera) are revenue collection means. They're civil infractions only (I.e. fine only, no points or record, and they don't impact your insurance).
Since it's a revenue stream, they don't want to pay court costs for all those who wish to contest, so its pretty likely that they will either reduce the fine or can cancel the ticket entirely if you prove that you're willing to waste their time by contesting.
NYC has a similar program for parking tickets. If you contest thy automatically offer to take 20% off the ticket just to make you go away.
So it's worth a shot.
that being said, i have no idea what would happen in adjudication, everybody i've known has just swallowed their pride and paid it. if you are worried about lateness, i think if they receive your request that "stops the timer" so to speak.
Don't argue with the judge and don't haggle. Just say, you don't believe you were in violation, you are worried about the cost/insurance issues, you are normally a good driver etc. Take the first deal he gives you.
Oh and try to be a white man, if possible.