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Very specific political themed book recommendations

WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure!Candy IslandRegistered User regular
edited March 2011 in Help / Advice Forum
I am looking for a book which contains themes of Militarism and Voting Franchise. Something that is going to be very anti-military in its stance.

I am trying to find something to compare to the Heinlein book Starship Troopers, a very pro-militarism book in which only people who have been in the military can vote, for a Politics in Literature class. Preferably something in a different genre.

Suggestions that are historical fiction about maybe Nazism or early Communism, settings where only certain people get to vote and militarism is the norm would be great.

Something that specifically focuses on someone in the Military of those regimes would be fantastic.

Thanks in advance.

and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
WonderMink on

Posts

  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Closest I can think of is Franchise.

    It's in the first volume of this series.

    The theme of military isn't there (that I recall), but I don't know how strict this is. Worst that could happen is you've got a new story to read but not use. :)

    MKR on
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If your teacher would allow you to use a film instead of a written text, you could get some brilliant stuff out of a comparison of the novel and movie versions of Starship Troopers: despite being disguised (and most commonly interpreted) as a dumb popcorn B-movie "bugs in SPAAACE" action flick, Verhoeven twists the film into an absolutely scathing critique of the gung-ho militarism of the book. I mean, for fuck's sake, it has Neil Patrick Harris as a scientist strutting around in a Gestapo uniform.

    Kate of Lokys on
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    While I probably could include the movie as part of the discussion of the first book, I definitely need a second book to compare it too.

    That Franchise book looks interesting, but probably doesn't fit the bill.

    I would say that overall, the militarism is more important than the franchise part, but both would be preferable. That is why I am thinking historical fiction about Nazis or Communism. They both include people suddenly loosing franchise, or not even counting as people, and strong militarism.

    I have been wracking my brain and hitting the libraries to figure this out. Surprisingly it seemed that the Barnes and Noble people were most helpful so far.

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • brain operatorbrain operator Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The typical contrast example is Joe Haldeman's The Forever War, even if that's anti-war more than anti-military - insofar as the distinction is relevant here. I expect how apt it is depends on what you want to compare specifically.

    I don't quite get why first you ask about something specifically anti-military, then go on about early Communism/Nazism, "settings where only certain people get to vote and militarism is the norm".

    I suggest simply looking at Wikipedia, btw. If you look up Starship Troopers there, you'll find references to several literary responses to the book.

    brain operator on
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It is simply that those settings set up an example in which to showcase the ills of such a situation. Something which will illustrate selective franchise and militarism very poorly, as opposed to Starship Troopers positive portrayal of such things.

    I have noticed The Forever War in my search already, and intend to take a look at it, but I am most interested in something of a different genre.

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • brain operatorbrain operator Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    JebusUD wrote: »
    It is simply that those settings set up an example in which to showcase the ills of such a situation. Something which will illustrate selective franchise and militarism very poorly, as opposed to Starship Troopers positive portrayal of such things.

    I have noticed The Forever War in my search already, and intend to take a look at it, but I am most interested in something of a different genre.
    Wikipedia mentions the poem Dulce et Decorum Est, which stands diametrically opposed to the militaristic views of Starship Troopers (it calls Heinlein's main point, that it's only fitting to give your life for your country, "the Old Lie"). That's just a single, not too long poem though, not a book.

    Two very good anti-war novels (not sci-fi): Catch-22 by Joseph Heller and Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut. Also: A Farewell to Arms, by Ernest Hemingway. Three books with excellent literary pedigree too.

    The Red Badge of Honor (Stephen Crane) might be a good fit too: it tells the story of a soldier whose idealized notions of war are thoroughly destroyed. Set in the Civil War.

    brain operator on
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Just here to say that further book recommendations are still appreciated.

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't know why, maybe just an urge to make other people suffer through it, but I thought of "Gate to Women's Country". Had to read it in middle school as a counterpoint to the male dominated world of The Odyessy, but it displays a world where women run civilization and men are only around as soldiers/sperm donors in service to Women's Country.

    It has some stuff that I felt was both provoking and thought provoking at the time, but I was 13 so who knows?

    Ringo on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You're not going to find something that is just the inverse of starship troopers. What you're going to find are books that embody different values - that military service isn't necessary for civic participation. Charles Stross' Singularity Sky deconstructs some of those concepts but it's a bit obliquely done. You might try Weimar-era German works or Soviet dissident writers.

    Why did you pick this topic if you can only find one half of the equation?

    kaliyama on
    fwKS7.png?1
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Non-fiction anything by Chalmers Johnson is a good call, The Sorrows of Empire or Blowback in particular. But yeah, The Forever War is almost a direct response to Starship Troopers and was intended as such.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    JebusUD wrote: »
    I am looking for a book which contains themes of Militarism and Voting Franchise. Something that is going to be very anti-military in its stance.

    I am trying to find something to compare to the Heinlein book Starship Troopers, a very pro-militarism book in which only people who have been in the military can vote, for a Politics in Literature class. Preferably something in a different genre.

    Suggestions that are historical fiction about maybe Nazism or early Communism, settings where only certain people get to vote and militarism is the norm would be great.

    Something that specifically focuses on someone in the Military of those regimes would be fantastic.

    Thanks in advance.


    The Forever War - Joe Haldeman

    V1m on
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    kaliyama wrote: »
    You're not going to find something that is just the inverse of starship troopers. What you're going to find are books that embody different values - that military service isn't necessary for civic participation. Charles Stross' Singularity Sky deconstructs some of those concepts but it's a bit obliquely done. You might try Weimar-era German works or Soviet dissident writers.

    Why did you pick this topic if you can only find one half of the equation?

    Eh, why not.

    I'm not really expecting something that is exactly an inverse, but just something that has the same themes in a different way. That is exactly why I am thinking Nazism might be a great place to start, Suddenly being in the military is the bees knees and certain folk can't vote, and aren't even considered really people.

    Edit: I will check those out Enlightened Bum, for self actualization, but for this fiction is a requirement. much thanks though.

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • MidshipmanMidshipman Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Kate of Lokys wrote: »
    Verhoeven twists the film into an absolutely scathing critique of the gung-ho militarism of the book.

    It isn't so much a critique as it is a mockery. Voerhoeven didn't even read the book.

    Midshipman on
    midshipman.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Lysistrata by Aristophenes might be a kind of interesting choice. Still addresses militarism and civic participating but from a very different angle. Greek women are pissed about the Peloponnesian War still going, so they tell their husbands they're not getting laid til a settlement is negotiated.

    Very different genre, very famous work.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    enlightenedbum wrote: »
    Lysistrata by Aristophenes might be a kind of interesting choice. Still addresses militarism and civic participating but from a very different angle. Greek women are pissed about the Peloponnesian War still going, so they tell their husbands they're not getting laid til a settlement is negotiated.

    Very different genre, very famous work.

    This sounds pretty good, will check it out. Plus, no copyright is a bonus! FREE yay!

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
  • WonderMinkWonderMink Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Just wanted to say that I have decided to go with Solzenhitsyn's "The First Circle" or "In the First Circle" depending on the translation.

    Comes complete with a lack of voting rights, forced labor, and military guards. Sure to be a hit.

    WonderMink on
    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
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