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Relocating to California (UK edition)
CroakerBC
TorontoRegistered User regular
TorontoRegistered User regular
Hello H/A.
Short version: I'm currently in the UK, married (to a US citizen), no kids, full time employed, and considering a relocate to CA, specifically the San Diego area. What do I need to consider?
Longer version:
My wife is from the US, and one of her immediate relatives is extremely (terminally) ill. We're considering moving back to the US, in part because of this situation, which is likely to be short-to-medium term (a year or two). I work for an IT company which has international divisions in various countries, but includes one in San Diego. When I told my employer that my wife had the situation above, they offered the potential of a relocate to the San Diego office. We've been considering the move anyway, but the family illness may accelerate our timeline.
As yet, I don't know what the situation with the relocate would be (salary, benefits, health insurance, etc.). In my current locale, I make the rough equivalent of $50k a year, and my wife works part time for about $10k (as a university librarian) - this allows us to live comfortably. I suspect this would not be the case in CA.
What I'm wondering is:
a) What sort of questions are worth asking around relocation packages?
b) What sort of things does one need to think about in the US that aren't relevant in the UK, in terms of expenses? I've realised I'd have to pay health insurance, and 'local' taxes, but I expect there are hidden costs that I haven't considered. Does anyone have any experience there?
c) Given that neither of us knows anything about the CA real estate market, we'd probably look to rent, and if there in a longer term capacity, buy, with a deposit of c. $100000. Given that we'd need to buy a car, and given a (rough) commute time of 60-120 minutes...does anyone have any area recommendations?
So, in the spirit of another thread on the board: How can we afford to live in California, *and* where can we afford to live in California?
As ever, all advice gratefully received.
Short version: I'm currently in the UK, married (to a US citizen), no kids, full time employed, and considering a relocate to CA, specifically the San Diego area. What do I need to consider?
Longer version:
My wife is from the US, and one of her immediate relatives is extremely (terminally) ill. We're considering moving back to the US, in part because of this situation, which is likely to be short-to-medium term (a year or two). I work for an IT company which has international divisions in various countries, but includes one in San Diego. When I told my employer that my wife had the situation above, they offered the potential of a relocate to the San Diego office. We've been considering the move anyway, but the family illness may accelerate our timeline.
As yet, I don't know what the situation with the relocate would be (salary, benefits, health insurance, etc.). In my current locale, I make the rough equivalent of $50k a year, and my wife works part time for about $10k (as a university librarian) - this allows us to live comfortably. I suspect this would not be the case in CA.
What I'm wondering is:
a) What sort of questions are worth asking around relocation packages?
b) What sort of things does one need to think about in the US that aren't relevant in the UK, in terms of expenses? I've realised I'd have to pay health insurance, and 'local' taxes, but I expect there are hidden costs that I haven't considered. Does anyone have any experience there?
c) Given that neither of us knows anything about the CA real estate market, we'd probably look to rent, and if there in a longer term capacity, buy, with a deposit of c. $100000. Given that we'd need to buy a car, and given a (rough) commute time of 60-120 minutes...does anyone have any area recommendations?
So, in the spirit of another thread on the board: How can we afford to live in California, *and* where can we afford to live in California?
As ever, all advice gratefully received.
CroakerBC on
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That's an acceptable commute time, one way (that is, circa 60-120 minutes in, and the same back out).
But then, average commute times in the area are *also* something I don't know much about...
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If you don't have a car currently, I'd say the only additional thing you might need to worry about is a) buying one and b) insuring it. You'll need to ask your company how much they'll pay you to move, what you'll get paid when you're here, and any other benefits (since they have a presence in the US they will have health insurance plans).
Of course, there may be additional immigration questions here. For instance, you could end up getting taxed twice if you maintain your UK citizenship. Other folks with more knowledge on this will need to chime in, though.
I'm a Brit that lives in CA.
a) Have you filed your green card paperwork yet? That can take months. You should call the embassy and find out whether you can do it before relocating.
b) There aren't really any "hidden" costs. There's sales tax, which you will forget about every time you go to the register. Your employer should buy you the insurance, going it alone is very expensive. Even then, if you need something fairly important, you're looking at $200 - $500 expenses each time, even with co-pay.
c) When you say "hour commute" do you mean that the distance is about an hour, or that it is an hour during rush hour? Rush hour in SoCal is complete hell. You will want to live closer to your job if you are talking about distance. You will need to pass the Californian driving test before you can get yourself insured on a private vehicle. The moving test is orders of magnitude easier than the UK one, but the theory test can be tricky if you don't spend the time to brush up on odd motoring laws. Many of them are about the legality of motoring in CA, not about the actual motion of traffic. eg. "A pedestrian is walking from one side of the road to the other. They are in a crosswalk, but do not stop to look for traffic. A car hits the pedestrian. Who is legally at fault?"
Unfortunately, 'Live somewhere else' isn't really an option in this case - the company is where it is, and the job is with the company, so it's there or nowhere. Though Jansons comments re: the UK were especially useful.
Regarding visa paperwork: The office has an agency that will look into this, but I *believe* I can go in on a non-immigrant visa (K3 or equivalent), or a work permit, and then file to change status to permanent residence once in country. It's a pain-in-the-paperwork, but means we could be out there and I could be back to work ASAP.
I'm going to quiz my employer over health insurance, but apart from checking the level of co-pay and premium/mo, I have no idea how it works - are there things common to a US health insurance 'package'?
Fortunately (I think), car/car insurance aren't too much of an issue. We could certainly buy a new-to-us car and insurance, even though I'd likely need a CA license to drive it - but my wife still has a US license, and can happily drive. Even in rush hour (though I may have to break that one gently).
re: Commute time - ideally, I'd want to spend 60-90 minutes in the car in the morning, in order to get from <x> to the office over in Solana. I suppose what I'm wondering in this case is:
1. What's the average commute, really? Is an hour commute in the morning viable?
2. How far away can I get and have that 60-90 minute commute, and what's in that radius as far as real estate goes? We don't know CA at all, really, so have no idea which areas are good/bad/will get you killed...
And I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, so if anyone can spot a glaring omission in my questions..please do assume I *am* that dense.
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Traffic in California between the hours of 6:45-9:30AM and 3:30-6:30PM is murder. Absolute, kill-yourself-for-being-in-a-car horror. A short 25-minute drive in no traffic can easily turn into a 1-2 hour drive in rush hour depending on accidents/bullshit. Living in the San Diego area going from a long commute (~23 miles round trip) to a short one (4 miles) I could never go back. Live as close as possible to your workplace in SoCal unless you have some kind of ungodly thirst for stop-and-go driving. From your posts it seems unclear why you give that kind of time frame for your commute but if you can avoid that drive, or at the very least avoid rush hour times, do so.
Well, ideally I'd rather not have that drive. I threw that out as an example of my current commute/what I consider a viable commute 'time', before the idea of getting to and from work causes me to have a nervous breakdown.
In an ideal world, I'd like to live ten minutes from the office and walk in.
However, I was thinking that allowing for a longer commute would give a larger radius of potential real-estate for rent/purchase - is that not the case? I had a quick look at rent/prices in the Solana Beach area earlier, and they're..well, roughly equivalent to UK prices actually, but still expensive. I was thinking that getting away from the beacj might equate to enough of a decrease in rent to make the commute worthwhile - no?
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But my question is where is this relative? If you are moving to be closer to them, than you had better seriously consider their location. California is a very large place. When I visit my mother who only lives in Central California it's an 8 hour drive. Los Angeles is 2 hours from downtown San Diego. Irvine only an hour.
As far as traffic is concerned, unfortunately North County (Solana Beach - Oceanside) is pretty bad sometimes. I call it San Diego retard traffic, because as someone who grew up and learned to drive in LA, I am completely amazed at how few cars it takes to be traffic to standstill here. LA traffic is obnoxious but at least it makes sense. Here everything will stop moving for no reason. No road construction, no accident...just a complete and sudden halt. On the flip side of that, I can be completely amazed at how little traffic there is at times. I often make the trip from Encinitas down to the San Diego Zoo smack in the middle of rush hour and hit no real traffic the entire way.
All in all San Diego is a fantastic place to live. The beaches are better in LA but everything else is better here. At 8am as I write this its hovering around 60 outside and sunny while most of the rest of the country is freezing their ass off and digging their cars out of a foot or more of snow. On Friday I actually got a sunburn driving home from an art show in LA.
Again, Encinitas where I live is a fairly affordable area... nicer one bedroom apartments usually run around 1100 a month and you would be about a 10 minute at most drive from work. Vista, where places start to get really affordable is going to be about a 30-40 minute drive.
I haven't had to look at real estate pricing in a few years so I won't muddy the water there, just want to make sure you won't be suffering from any undue traffic stress.
1. You can only drive on your UK license for up to two weeks in California (in other states it's much longer).
2. Yes you can certainly go in on a K3, however, these can take months to process. How long have you and your wife been married? If it's more than two years, you can do a Direct Consular Filing for an expedited IR1/CR1 visa as you're living together overseas. http://www.visajourney.com/content/dcf
3. The commute depends on so many factors. I lived for nearly two years ~25 mins from work, but yes, occasionally it did take up to an hour to commute in. I was actually fortunate as I commuted against the flow of traffic (i.e. I commuted north in the mornings when most other people were commuting south, and vice versa) and I also had to be in for work at 8.00 am - after 8.00 am the journey typically took twice as long. And don't depend upon any Californian to know how to drive in the rain (not that I blame them - visibility when it's raining is really poor here). So weather, time of commute and directional flow of traffic are all huge factors we really couldn't guess at for you.
Do try to live closer if you can... because a car is vital in California, and because everyone uses one, real estate prices don't drop all that sharply until you get really far out of the city. Also, I have little experience of San Diego, but in general Californian cities don't work the same way they do in the UK; there's not a super-expensive center surrounded by cheaper suburbs. Our apartment is central San Jose, roughly 5 miles from where I work, and as was mentioned in the posts quoted above, it's cheap.
4. Typically employers will only offer a couple (or even just one) of health plans, so you may not have the option to really shop around. I could answer more specific questions once I know what your employer offers. You'll likely really miss the NHS, though, I know I do! I've never had to pay more than $140/month myself (employers typically cover 70-90% of the cost) but oh boy, in my experience waiting times and bedside manners are just as bad, if not worse, than in the UK. The 'good' side to US healthcare is that they're more willing to submit you for all kinds of tests.
5. Our main expense, which didn't really exist for me in the UK, is the car. We've put 70,000 miles on our car in just over two years, which has resulted in a fair bit of maintenance. Otherwise expenses are roughly the same. Some things are more expensive (DVDs, decent chocolate) while other things are cheaper (games, wine), so you shouldn't find it too hard to adjust.
Since your work is on the coast, you'll need to expect a commute. Real estate west of I-5 is all pretty pricey. Not to mention traffic gets super backed up around the Del Mar area (just south of Solana beach). You may end up finding a place to live as north as Oceanside or Vista. La Costa and San Marcos are more inland and will therefore be cheaper.
There are quite a lot of nice townhomes and large apartments in Encintas, though. Looking more south, Sorrento Valley or Mira Mesa is also a likely place for more affordable homes. Poway may look like a do-able commute with the freeway there, but I wouldn't recommend living there.
FWIW, Costco makes things a lot cheaper than in the UK. Or, I guess more accurately, you get a lot better stuff for your money at Costco. You spend about the same, but instead of a crappy electric toothbrush, you get THE ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSH CRAFTED BY JESUS WITH 300 ATTACHMENTS FOR ULTIMATE TOOTH WHITENING POWER!
I love me some Costco. I have much better consumer goods now.
Save up for an HDTV. Costco/Amazon are selling 52" plasmas for $700 now. It's mad.
Got a meeting on Monday to discuss financials, including the health insurance question, so will drop by again after that.
Seeing as how you all suffer with health insurance - anything I really ought ot be asking the company about their coverage? As an NHS user, I really don't know what might be good to know...
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The four important things are to find out deductible, co-pay, what isn't covered and your monthly expense. They probably have some sort of information packet they can email you telling you your options rather than rattling it off the top of their head.
Health Insurance is a fairly scary thing in comparison to the NHS, and I've found you need to take on a fair dose of paranoia about it. Although I guess its not paranoia, because in this case they really are out to get you. Anything other than a GP visit will result in you talking to your insurance company first to make sure what is and isn't covered, and talking to the people you will see for how much it will cost. Do not go to the ER unless you absolutely need to. I've heard horror stories of people not calling ambulances because they can't afford them (yes, they charge you to ride in an ambulance).
You also need dental insurance, too. From what I've seen, this is usually offered separately to your health insurance. There aren't any NHS dentists either, and you will definitely want the insurance. Dental work is expensive. The one saving grace is that US dentists are far more happy to actually do preventative work, because they're charging it all back to your insurance, anyway. NHS dentists are "I can't do anything unless there's a problem."
But this is all doom and gloom. Health insurance is far and away the worst thing you have to deal with, with tax returns coming a distant second. I love living here, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I think most British people, particularly those with ambition (lol state welfare lol), would prefer it here too. You'll love it, I promise.
To expand on his post:
Deductible - the amount you'll be paying out of pocket before health insurance kicks in.
Co-Pay - the amount you'll pay per doctor's visit, regardless of deductible or any other costs (i.e. with some plans you always pay a certain amount when you go to the doctor).
What isn't covered - typically even the best, most comprehensive plans don't cover you 100% if a) your problems are mental-health related (my plan covers this only to 80%, for example) or b) you're in for something self-inflicted (i.e. substance abuse).
Monthly expense - what'll be coming directly out of your pocket. In my experience, an employer typically pays 80-90% of the employee coverage and usually a little less, 50%, of dependent coverage. I've also heard of employers paying up to a certain amount, i.e. $1,000 a month, and anything above that you pay for.
In addition to dental you'll probably also want vision insurance. Dental and vision are often paid for 100% by the company, but again, that's just my experience.
There are typically two types of plan:
Co-Pay plans have a low deductible (often $500-$1,000), but you'll pay every time you visit the doctor, and often coverage only goes up to 60-80% in-network. Say you have a deductible of $500, a co-pay of $50, and coverage of 80%. Say you incur yearly expenses of $6,000 (believe me, this is easy to do; this was actually the total of my medical costs last year). You're out of pocket $500 upfront - that's your deductible. After you hit your deductible limit, the company then pays for 80% of your expenses. So you pay $500 + $1,100 + $150 (say three doctor's visits) = $1,750 - and that's not including what comes out of your paycheck every month.
HSA plans have a high deductible, but there is usually no co-pay and coverage is higher - mine is 100% after I hit my deductible. HSA stands for Health Savings Account. If you have a HSA compatible plan you can open up a HSA and put away tax-deferred money in it just as you would with a 401k (although in California, state taxes apply). The HSA can be used for any medical related expense, including for vision and dental expenses. Companies that offer HSA plans often put money into an HSA for you.
For example, I have a HSA plan with my employer. My deductible is $4,000, but my company puts $3,000 every year into a HSA for me. There is no co-pay and after I hit my deductible I am covered 100% (in-network). Last year I incurred medical expenses of $6,000. I had to pay $4,000 out of pocket but was reimbursed $3,000 from my HSA. I wasn't charged for anything else once I hit my deductible. Under my HSA plan I was $750 better off than I would've been under a Co-pay plan, but this is because my yearly expenses were > $4,000. If your yearly expenses are low then a Co-pay plan saves you more, but it's impossible to predict what your yearly expenses may be!
Oh, and ER visits can easily cost $1-2,000 for even something very minor.
(As an aside: It's crazy! I'm a healthy adult in my mid-20s, as is my husband. If you consider that it's $600 a month to insure me ($120 to me, $480 to my employer), and then you add the deductible, we (my employer & I) are paying $11,200 a year before the insurance company really has to pay anything. If we were in our 50s and had a family, or a chronic condition, the cost would be more like $22,000. And then you have to consider that for something like mental illness I'd always be responsible for at least 20% of the cost no matter what else.)
Anyway, what I'm saying is, HSA plans are usually preferable to Co-pay if your employer offers both, but if you're only going to be there for a couple of years you may decide you'll be better off with a Co-pay.
For example, I'm using my HSA to save up for getting LASIK, which my vision insurance doesn't cover at all.
I just wanted to add in that this post is spot on.
As mentioned earlier, you'll generally want to stay east of the 5, places get a bit ridiculous as they approach the coast. Personally, I'd also suggest staying in Solana Beach or further north from there. While that does mean you'll be in the heavier traffic flow (south in the morning and north in the evening), places are a bit more affordable and nicer (If however, spending a lot of time downtown sounds like something you'll be doing, you might want to consider Solana Beach and south). This means your main options will be Solana Beach, Encinitas/Leucadia, Carlsbad, Oceanside, Vista, and San Marcos.
As for good/bad neighborhoods, each city is like any other in that they have their good parts of town and their bad parts. While you can generalize Carlsbad > Leucadia/Encinitas > Oceanside/Vista etc., you'll be able to find exceptions, certain areas of Vista that are nicer or more expensive than certain areas of Carlsbad for example. Try using Google street view for any places you have in mind to get a feel for the area. While certain areas do have gangs (Vista Home Boys (VHB) in Vista, Tortilla Flats in Encinitas for example), they have such a small impact most people don't even know of their existence. For the most part the bad parts of town just have burglary problems.
Lastly, as said, minimize commute if possible. On some days you can get from north county to downtown in 20-30 minutes, and other days it could take 2 hours. Don't lengthen your commute if you don't have to. With shit for public transportation and the necessity of cars, your expenses will be greatly reduced if you centralize everything to minimize your driving time.
The relocation would work as follows:
1. Company provides the visa
2. Company pays emergency medical/dental until I can go on our US health benefits
3. Company pays a couple of months accomodation/car hire while we sort ourselves out (useful, as I'd need to do a test and acquire a CA licence)
4. Pay for one trip back to the UK per year
5. Assist with US taxes (though I suspect we can do without this)
6. Bring pay in line with the US, to approx $70k a year
I don't know much about our US health insurance, but I asusme it's 'average' as these things go.
So, *given* the above, do those of you who live there thing this is financially viable? Given an accomodation area somewhere around Solana, rent-or-buy.
What should I know that I don't know? Where should I be looking, assuming the above ^ does make this viable.
EDIT (Well, actually, I was typing and this came through) for health insurance info:
Two plans (actually 4, but the other two are slightly cheaper/slightly less coverage, so lets start here). Given Janson's explanation of HSA's above, the fact that we can (for various reasons) input the maximum allowable allowance p/a, and that as a NHS user, I'm concerned by anything less than 100% coverage, I'm leaning toward the higher deductible HSA, but would *really* appreciate any comments.
Both via Blue Shield (what's the CA network like?). Both with an approx $500/month contribution.
Non-HSA:
$500 deductible
Small copay on office visits
$5000 out-of-pocket maximum
90% in and outpatient surgery
90% ER visit (+$100 copay)
90% physician expenses
Small ($10-15) copay on physicals and prescriptions
90% home healthcare
90% skilled nursing
90% diagnostic/x-ray
50% medical equipment
90% mental health
HSA:
$3600 deductible (for me+spouse)
$6000 out-of-pocket maximum
100% office visits
100% in and outpatient surgery
100% emergency room
100% physician expenses
100% physicals
$10 copay on prescriptions
100% Home healthcare
100% skilled nursing
100% diagnostic/x-ray
100% medical equipment
100% Mental Health
Dental+Vision
$50 deductible+$25 copay
As always, you guys have been amazing thus-far - all help appreciated, all experiences shared, also!
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Be aware that if you are coming with a visa given to you by the company, you're probably going into the H1-B pool. H1-Bs are not by any means guaranteed. Your application goes into a pool, and then the applications are chosen at random to be processed until the quota cap is reached. The H1-B also prevents you having any mobility: if you lose your job, you lose your legal status. You would need to find another job that would grant you an H1-B very quickly, else you need to leave the country.
My understanding is that you also have few/no rights in your ability to legally stay in the country. Your status can be revoked at any time.
Assuming you are granted an H1-B, you should think long and hard about whether you want to stay in CA. If so, I would recommend filing your green card paperwork ASAP (it says the processing time with mine in CA is 5 months). Once you get the green card, your legal status is no longer tied to you remaining with your employer. If you don't care to stay in the US, don't bother, because they get pinickity about dual-status people.
Just on the off chance anyone's curious about this:
In our case the visa is an E2 (Employee), which provides the right to work for a period of two years, contingent on employment with the same employer. So there are some concerns about mobility. However, the high initial investment for an E2 contraindicates the *need* for mobility. On the plus side, the processing time for the E2, if you're eligible, is about 2 months...
Mind you, in our case, I would be very tempted to file a change of status after arrival, and go the Green Card route as Lewisham suggests. I suspect that given we may only be in the US for a relatively short (1-2 year) period, we could leave it 12 months, and see how that shakes out.
I think major concerns largely centre around rent/mortgage (Where to live, areas in particular), and costs of the different lifestyle - buying a car and car insurance, for example.
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Yeah, I personally wouldn't do it unless:
a) You have to
b) You decide to stay
I've heard scare stories about how green cards start making you eligible for things like having to pay US taxes on all income, about how the government send you nastygrams if you spend most of your time out the country etc. etc. You'll soon find there's a lot of urban legends around US immigration
I'd let things play out. If you have the E2, that's all fine and dandy. If you're anything like me, you'll fall in love with CA and decide to stay, but it looks like your wife prefers the UK(?) and you might want to go back too, and then it's much easier to wipe your hands clean of the US when you do have a totally temporary status (don't forget to file a tax return though! I forgot to do this the first time
From a standard of living point of view - well, there's two of us. We probably hit a movie once a month or so, from lack of good movies more than anything else. We've got the UK equivalent of premium cable (without movies or sports, but with the equivalent of HBO).
Cooking probably averages six days a week, get some takeout on weekends. Having been to the US, I suspect that the number of meals out would rise exponentially if we had the [necessary] car.
We're also suckers for historical/cultural things, especially in the outdoors. Here that means trundling about in Abbeys and Castles. Is there a CA equivalent? I can see what look like some lovely large parks on google maps, but I don't know how easy they are to get to (San Elijo, San Dieguito, Black Mountain).
I suspect most of our 'going out money' would go on take out, and probably books/DVD's - I'd have to leave several large bookcases in storage, and come out without a library, which is a frightening thought. Maybe buy a Kindle. But truly, I don't know what people in the US *do* for fun; inching into my 30's, we're watching the odd movie, a lot of TV, and having friends over once a week for dinner and drinks. I suspect there is more to 'do' there, but I don't know what thatmight be.
So, from a cost of living point of view, we don't really want to live in an apartment plated entirely with gold - a two or three room place would do us nicely; if it's close enough to walk/bike to the office, *amazing*, if it isn't, no big deal, I need to do a CA drivers test anyway (as Janson noted below). Really, I'm looking for a place which is, above all, safe - we'd be CA newbies, and looking to find our feet, I suppose.
Encinitas looks quite nice from what I can see here, but I don't know the area, or even which sites to use to look around, as the US appears to have a huge amount of realtors. Rent.com?
As always, thanks for the help - it really is appreciated. The potential to move out there is a big deal for us, and having other people share their experiences of moving and/or the area we're thinking of, is great.
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A place within walking or biking distance will probably be troublesome, but who can really say until you actually come have a look at where you will be working? All of these coastal cities are fairly safe, aside from the plentiful law enforcement there are a lot of security companies working in the area. Rancho Santa Fe, which is the most expensive place to live in the state (and CA has a lot of very expensive places to live), is 2 miles east of the beach in Encinitas and the residents there take their security very seriously. I have seen or heard of virtually zero crime since I moved here 5 years ago. The worst you probably have to worry about is earthquakes and fires. The last major earthquake I remember was almost two decades ago, and fires never make it as far west as the coast. Though the last one did get pretty close.
I can't tell you where to look for a place. I moved from Los Angeles and I was already in school down here at the time so it was pretty easy to just hop in the car and drive around looking at houses. If it's at all possible I would consider at least one of you making the trip out to check out the area before making your decision. But of course it's San Diego. It really is a fantastic place to live.
As far as historical/cultural things, well you are going to be about 50 miles from the Mexican border. San Diego itself has a lot of culture, as well as places like Balboa Park, the San Diego Zoo (easily one of the best zoos in the world), Torrey Pines... there is a lot of good hiking, beaches and lagoons. You are only 100 miles from Los Angeles which is a totally different experience. And of course Las Vegas is only a 4-5 hour drive. San Francisco you could probably make in 7-8. You have Mammoth (skiing) around the same distance.
People here probably do the same crap you do there for fun. Drinking, movies...drinking. Though we also have surfing and the Chargers. It won't be hard to find people who have similar interests. There are a lot of people.
Anyways, I hope everything works out. If there is anything I can do to help let me know.