It seems like just yesterday everyone was losing their shit over "Still Alive" and going on about all the hidden meaning in Aperture Labs.
I remember I didn't have a PS3 or 360 at the time and was growing incredibly impatient so I paid 20 bucks for the game on Steam only to not having a powerful enough computer to run it.
I'm trying to decide where I should preorder this.
Should I get it from Steam and get a free copy of Portal (that's useless to me.) but get it immediately when it comes out?
Should I spend an additional $5 and preorder it from Gamestop to get the yellow rollcage gear? (Both steam and gamestop have $5 off deal, but Gamestop has taxes and shipping to consider) and wait like a week or two to get it?
Should I spend an an extra $10 to get the PS3 version on Amazon and get a copy for both PS3 and PC?
Eh, actually, I think I'll just preorder it on Steam. Don't want to wait an age. Maybe I'll see if my friend wants to do a double pack.
Okay, so super old news to everyone but I've been kind of on a media and news black out for a long while now. But I just found out Stephen Merchant was voicing Wheatley a couple weeks ago.
I'm quite jazzed about this. Okay, carry on.
Kuratosu on
Click spoiler for Backloggery, and gamer info:
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Okay, so super old news to everyone but I've been kind of on a media and news black out for a long while now. But I just found out Stephen Merchant was voicing Wheatley a couple weeks ago.
I'm trying to decide where I should preorder this.
Should I get it from Steam and get a free copy of Portal (that's useless to me.) but get it immediately when it comes out?
Should I spend an additional $5 and preorder it from Gamestop to get the yellow rollcage gear? (Both steam and gamestop have $5 off deal, but Gamestop has taxes and shipping to consider) and wait like a week or two to get it?
Should I spend an an extra $10 to get the PS3 version on Amazon and get a copy for both PS3 and PC?
Eh, actually, I think I'll just preorder it on Steam. Don't want to wait an age. Maybe I'll see if my friend wants to do a double pack.
I'm trying to decide where I should preorder this.
Should I get it from Steam and get a free copy of Portal (that's useless to me.) but get it immediately when it comes out?
Should I spend an additional $5 and preorder it from Gamestop to get the yellow rollcage gear? (Both steam and gamestop have $5 off deal, but Gamestop has taxes and shipping to consider) and wait like a week or two to get it?
Should I spend an an extra $10 to get the PS3 version on Amazon and get a copy for both PS3 and PC?
Eh, actually, I think I'll just preorder it on Steam. Don't want to wait an age. Maybe I'll see if my friend wants to do a double pack.
I'm trying to decide where I should preorder this.
Should I get it from Steam and get a free copy of Portal (that's useless to me.) but get it immediately when it comes out?
Should I spend an additional $5 and preorder it from Gamestop to get the yellow rollcage gear? (Both steam and gamestop have $5 off deal, but Gamestop has taxes and shipping to consider) and wait like a week or two to get it?
Should I spend an an extra $10 to get the PS3 version on Amazon and get a copy for both PS3 and PC?
Eh, actually, I think I'll just preorder it on Steam. Don't want to wait an age. Maybe I'll see if my friend wants to do a double pack.
Damn what ive been waiting for since walmart came out with their $20 gift card (i love the competition walmart puts on amazon)
One thing to note, PS3 version might require you to link this to your steam account, meaning you cant play online unless you play through your PSN account. That means if youre like me and want to resell it (since you would rather play on PC, and $35 after credit is the cheapest way), you probably cant resell it for much. Im gonna try my hand at doing it anyways...
I'm trying to decide where I should preorder this.
Should I get it from Steam and get a free copy of Portal (that's useless to me.) but get it immediately when it comes out?
Should I spend an additional $5 and preorder it from Gamestop to get the yellow rollcage gear? (Both steam and gamestop have $5 off deal, but Gamestop has taxes and shipping to consider) and wait like a week or two to get it?
Should I spend an an extra $10 to get the PS3 version on Amazon and get a copy for both PS3 and PC?
Eh, actually, I think I'll just preorder it on Steam. Don't want to wait an age. Maybe I'll see if my friend wants to do a double pack.
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
EDIT:
On the presumption that I'm not just talking crazy and this is actually the case, it would certainly explain why Sony would even be willing to go along with the whole Steamworks thing in the first place. It lowers the value of the used PS3 version and acts as a deterrent to 2nd-hand sales.
But like I said, Valve haven't confirmed anything one way or the other just yet. Peewi had this post on the topic:
Wonder no more how you will get the PC copy that comes with the PS3 version of Portal 2. The Steam translation server (a public thing for translating Steam to other languages) have the following pieces of text:
User has not played %gamename% on the PlayStation®3 system
and
Steam_SubscriptionCancelled_CDKey_MustLoginPS3
The product code you have entered requires that you first link your Steam account to a PlayStation®3 Network account and then connect to Steam while playing %gamename% on the PlayStation®3 system.
Those two strings give a decent idea of how the PS3 stuff will work. The chances of being able to give someone else the PC version of P2 seems low.
subedii on
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I'm still trying to decide where to pre-order. As Undead Scottsman pointed out, the free copy of Portal from Steam is 100% worthless (seriously, who does NOT own Portal? I can't even gift the thing!). I don't really care for GameStop either, and honestly, I can live without the really ugly reskins of the robots I think.
I guess that leaves Amazon, which of course is not offering that $20 credit on the PC version - perhaps because they hate me. *sigh* $5 off is better than nothing though I suppose. And hopefully they are offering release date delivery on this (I need to check yet).
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
You mean the thing EA has been doing with just about every one of their online-enabled games?
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
You mean the thing EA has been doing with just about every one of their online-enabled games?
A far, Far, FAR leap from taking one component of the game and making it one time use only under the excuse of servers and whatnot, and doing that to an entire game.
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
See my edit linking Peewi's post.
Basically it looks like the PSN and Steam accounts are going to be linked.
This doesn't stop you from creating a dummy Steam account just for the game, but I'm guessing it does prevent you from running both versions simultaneously.
EDIT: This would also ONLY appear to be the case when you're trying to use the Steam account PC version. Again, this is all up in the air, but I would guess that you can run Portal 2 just fine without having anything to do with registering a Steam account.
subedii on
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Am I the only one who doesn't have any motivation to play Portal 2? I demand that Valve gives me Episode 3 instead.
Waffles or whatever on
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
See my edit linking Peewi's post.
Basically it looks like the PSN and Steam accounts are going to be linked.
This doesn't stop you from creating a dummy Steam account just for the game, but I'm guessing it does prevent you from running both versions simultaneously.
EDIT: This would also ONLY appear to be the case when you're trying to use the Steam account PC version. Again, this is all up in the air, but I would guess that you can run Portal 2 just fine without having anything to do with registering a Steam account.
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Trim'd
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
I think the problem with HL3 is that they don't have a clue on where to take the story.
Something tells me they wouldn't have set up a trilogy of episodes, with some VERY blatantly obvious plot hooks for Episode 3, if they didn't have a clue where they were taking the story.
Undead Scottsman on
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Co-op is cross platform. PC, Mac and PS3 users are all going to be able to play together.
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
What you are actually proposing though is a console game with a one time use key. You know, the thing that torches and pitchforks would be wielded over. I don't think anybody involved is STUPIIIIIIIID enough to try that just yet.
See my edit linking Peewi's post.
Basically it looks like the PSN and Steam accounts are going to be linked.
This doesn't stop you from creating a dummy Steam account just for the game, but I'm guessing it does prevent you from running both versions simultaneously.
EDIT: This would also ONLY appear to be the case when you're trying to use the Steam account PC version. Again, this is all up in the air, but I would guess that you can run Portal 2 just fine without having anything to do with registering a Steam account.
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
If there is one-time use code for the online portion of the game, and you return it with that code, you will likely get "normal" trade-in value. Of course that means you can't play the game online if you want to trade it in.
Otherwise my guess is that trade-in values for the PS3 version of Portal 2 will be really, really low.
Trim'd
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
I might be misunderstanding here, but how can GS take used copies of a game that is tied to the PC version and can't be used by anybody else? I mean I was just told that something in the code said that they both can't be used at the same time right?
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
But we're already at the climax. How many more alien invasions do we have to push back?
They should go nuts and have Gordon come back 150 years in the future in order to stop humanity systematic conquering and xenocide (and who'll blame them after being conquered, sterilized, and used as slaves?).
But we're already at the climax. How many more alien invasions do we have to push back?
Did you play Half-Life 2: Episode 2?
In addition to all the Combine troops and the floating Advisor gasbags still on Earth that need to be stopped, there's a giant Aperture Science mcguffin at one of the poles that could cause another Black Mesa level catastrophy.
Plus they haven't resolved the "Gman has let you off the leash temporarily" plot either.
Undead Scottsman on
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
that's what I mean.
We're at the 'mop-up' part of the storyline. Do we really need another episode where we do roughly the same thing as episode 2?
Trim'd
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
I might be misunderstanding here, but how can GS take used copies of a game that is tied to the PC version and can't be used by anybody else? I mean I was just told that something in the code said that they both can't be used at the same time right?
For online, no. But then that wouldn't be much different from project $10.
Seriously though, you're asking me a tonne of questions that I'm only vaguely guessing at here.
We're at the 'mop-up' part of the storyline. Do we really need another episode where we do roughly the same thing as episode 2?
Yes?
Eli DIED for the information about the Borealis. Seems kinda crapping on that ending if it's never followed up. Plus who knows what crazy Aperture Science shit Valve would put on the Borealis, and the new snowy terrain would be a good change of scenery.
There's plenty of places to put new stuff into Episode 3, and there was plenty of plothook leftover to have an episode. I mean, even if YOU don't think it's a worthwhile place to go, doesn't mean Valve doesn't have a clue where to take the story.
Undead Scottsman on
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
Trim'd
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
I might be misunderstanding here, but how can GS take used copies of a game that is tied to the PC version and can't be used by anybody else? I mean I was just told that something in the code said that they both can't be used at the same time right?
For online, no. But then that wouldn't be much different from project $10.
Seriously though, you're asking me a tonne of questions that I'm only vaguely guessing at here.
I think I was confused, because the way you guys were talking made it sound like one copy invalidated the other when you tried to trade it in. Now it sounds like you guys are just saying that you can't co-op with a pre-owned PS3 copy. That makes more sense to me. If that is the case it was just a big misunderstanding.
Trim'd
Then what exactly is going to happen when people start trying to take their PS3 versions to GameStop, or people that plain don't have gaming PCs and bought the game for PS3, finished it, and want to turn it in for credit?
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
I might be misunderstanding here, but how can GS take used copies of a game that is tied to the PC version and can't be used by anybody else? I mean I was just told that something in the code said that they both can't be used at the same time right?
For online, no. But then that wouldn't be much different from project $10.
Seriously though, you're asking me a tonne of questions that I'm only vaguely guessing at here.
I think I was confused, because the way you guys were talking made it sound like one copy invalidated the other when you tried to trade it in. Now it sounds like you guys are just saying that you can't co-op with a pre-owned PS3 copy. That makes more sense to me. If that is the case it was just a big misunderstanding.
Nobody really knows how it'll work, though it's likely if you buy a preowned copy, you just don't get access to Steamwork features (like a PC copy, cross-platform play, Steam Cloud etc. etc.)
Undead Scottsman on
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Maybe they are still trying to figure out a way to bring back Xen that doesn't suck incredible ass :P
Nobody really knows how it'll work, though it's likely if you buy a preowned copy, you just don't get access to Steamwork features (like a PC copy, cross-platform play, Steam Cloud etc. etc.)
Yeah this is all pretty new territory. As far as I'm aware, this is the first time that a cross-platform playable title has come with its counterpart version completely free.
The intention is to allow people to play where they want and to play across platforms, but not to give every player two completely stand-alone copies for the price of one (and effectively halve their sales).
EDIT: Well, that and probably the whole 2nd hand market thing as well.
Posts
It seems like just yesterday everyone was losing their shit over "Still Alive" and going on about all the hidden meaning in Aperture Labs.
I remember I didn't have a PS3 or 360 at the time and was growing incredibly impatient so I paid 20 bucks for the game on Steam only to not having a powerful enough computer to run it.
Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)
3DS: 0860-3240-2604
This should help you decide if you haven't: PS3 version $55 with $20GC
I'm quite jazzed about this. Okay, carry on.
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
Heard about JK Simmons as Cave Johnson?
Why I fear the ocean.
I already preordered from Amazon a few weeks back, but that's new. And I am glad to hear it applies to preorders!
My Backloggery
:!!:
EDIT: I'm basically reading up on all the stuff I missed. I can't hold out.
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
I'll be buying the PS3 version then it seems. And then playing the Steam version
Edit: Nevermind, looks like they're sold out of the PS3 version now
Damn what ive been waiting for since walmart came out with their $20 gift card (i love the competition walmart puts on amazon)
One thing to note, PS3 version might require you to link this to your steam account, meaning you cant play online unless you play through your PSN account. That means if youre like me and want to resell it (since you would rather play on PC, and $35 after credit is the cheapest way), you probably cant resell it for much. Im gonna try my hand at doing it anyways...
WELP. all i can hope is this is some glitch. This game is so far off i dont see them having a "cap" on it by now. Lets just wait and see what happens
heres a working link
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O6E3C8/ref=ord_cart_shr&tag=516010114-20&ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
However, if you mean using the PC version of Portal that comes with the PS3 version, IIRC those can't be run simultaneously.
Why not? That would mean you can't trade in the PS3 version then.
Couldn't say what store policies are going to be on that front, but presumably that's the point.
This is still at the conjecture stage, I don't believe Valve have actually confirmed anything yet. But I doubt Sony want people buying and returning copies of Portal 2 en-masse because they got the Steam version.
EDIT:
On the presumption that I'm not just talking crazy and this is actually the case, it would certainly explain why Sony would even be willing to go along with the whole Steamworks thing in the first place. It lowers the value of the used PS3 version and acts as a deterrent to 2nd-hand sales.
But like I said, Valve haven't confirmed anything one way or the other just yet. Peewi had this post on the topic:
I guess that leaves Amazon, which of course is not offering that $20 credit on the PC version - perhaps because they hate me. *sigh* $5 off is better than nothing though I suppose. And hopefully they are offering release date delivery on this (I need to check yet).
You mean the thing EA has been doing with just about every one of their online-enabled games?
A far, Far, FAR leap from taking one component of the game and making it one time use only under the excuse of servers and whatnot, and doing that to an entire game.
See my edit linking Peewi's post.
Basically it looks like the PSN and Steam accounts are going to be linked.
This doesn't stop you from creating a dummy Steam account just for the game, but I'm guessing it does prevent you from running both versions simultaneously.
EDIT: This would also ONLY appear to be the case when you're trying to use the Steam account PC version. Again, this is all up in the air, but I would guess that you can run Portal 2 just fine without having anything to do with registering a Steam account.
Yes. You also may be lacking a soul. :P
Yes.
While I would prefer Episode 3 over Portal 2, Portal 2 looks so god damned amazing that I'm not unhappy to be receiving it.
I do wish Valve would start talking about Half-Life again, though.
Twitter
Best guess on my part assuming all the above is true? Gamespot will do what they do with all games that have codes for additional features: They'll take it in anyway and make no guarantees that you'll be able to get a free PC version with your second-hand copy of the PS3 version.
The Zaeed DLC didn't prevent Gamestop from taking in copies of Mass Effect 2.
Something tells me they wouldn't have set up a trilogy of episodes, with some VERY blatantly obvious plot hooks for Episode 3, if they didn't have a clue where they were taking the story.
If there is one-time use code for the online portion of the game, and you return it with that code, you will likely get "normal" trade-in value. Of course that means you can't play the game online if you want to trade it in.
Otherwise my guess is that trade-in values for the PS3 version of Portal 2 will be really, really low.
I might be misunderstanding here, but how can GS take used copies of a game that is tied to the PC version and can't be used by anybody else? I mean I was just told that something in the code said that they both can't be used at the same time right?
They should go nuts and have Gordon come back 150 years in the future in order to stop humanity systematic conquering and xenocide (and who'll blame them after being conquered, sterilized, and used as slaves?).
Did you play Half-Life 2: Episode 2?
Plus they haven't resolved the "Gman has let you off the leash temporarily" plot either.
We're at the 'mop-up' part of the storyline. Do we really need another episode where we do roughly the same thing as episode 2?
For online, no. But then that wouldn't be much different from project $10.
Seriously though, you're asking me a tonne of questions that I'm only vaguely guessing at here.
Yes?
There's plenty of places to put new stuff into Episode 3, and there was plenty of plothook leftover to have an episode. I mean, even if YOU don't think it's a worthwhile place to go, doesn't mean Valve doesn't have a clue where to take the story.
I think I was confused, because the way you guys were talking made it sound like one copy invalidated the other when you tried to trade it in. Now it sounds like you guys are just saying that you can't co-op with a pre-owned PS3 copy. That makes more sense to me. If that is the case it was just a big misunderstanding.
Nobody really knows how it'll work, though it's likely if you buy a preowned copy, you just don't get access to Steamwork features (like a PC copy, cross-platform play, Steam Cloud etc. etc.)
Yeah this is all pretty new territory. As far as I'm aware, this is the first time that a cross-platform playable title has come with its counterpart version completely free.
The intention is to allow people to play where they want and to play across platforms, but not to give every player two completely stand-alone copies for the price of one (and effectively halve their sales).
EDIT: Well, that and probably the whole 2nd hand market thing as well.