Her accent is a bit thick, but she seems to have a decent analytical style
The ability to enunciate is important. What did you say girl? Mind crow? OH micro.
Maybe it's because English isn't my first language, and maybe that one cast in the thread isn't typical of her work, but I had a hard time understanding what she was saying; all I could pick out was a random starcraft words every few seconds. But she was having to do most of the work on that cast too because totalbiscuit doesn't really know anything about starcraft from the sounds of his casts.
Her accent is a bit thick, but she seems to have a decent analytical style
The ability to enunciate is important. What did you say girl? Mind crow? OH micro.
Maybe it's because English isn't my first language, and maybe that one cast in the thread isn't typical of her work, but I had a hard time understanding what she was saying; all I could pick out was a random starcraft words every few seconds. But she was having to do most of the work on that cast too because totalbiscuit doesn't really know anything about starcraft from the sounds of his casts.
Careful, he will come in here and lecture you.
Ezekiel on
I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you. I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains. I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh. - Ezekiel 32: 4-6
Out of the few attempts at females casting I've heard, Kelly is certainly the best at game comprehension, and frankly in a global game I feel like people need to manner up about running into accents... but she talks about random shit and is a weak caster despite knowing what the fuck.
Can someone please post a replay of a properly done Dahlgate? I usually play Terran, but for the sake of seeing that the hell it is I'm trying to recreate it in YABOT, but the directions someone posted earlier are vague about a bunch of stuff.
"a Dhalgate is 10 pylon 10 gate 13 gas 15 core probes cut at 18 probes and four warpgates done as soon as possible. it ends up with, executed perfectly, 5 stalkers and 1 zealot outside your opponent's base at 5:10. In practise its closer to 5:30-5:50."
Do you chrono? If you do, what and when? Do you make a zealot out of the first gate, or do you wait and spend those mins into making the next gate? Do you run 3 probes off of the Vespene, or 2, or what? When do you make the second pylon, given that your supply blocked at 18 probes?
I know a lot of this stuff is just "when you need it"...not having played toss, it's just frustrating. Replay, please?
CheBourgeoisNoir on
0
tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
edited February 2011
I don't know why you'd say that TB knows nothing about Starcraft--that's obviously not true, and he did some excellent work in the SCRT (and other places!). If the complaint is something like 'oh, he can't look at the front of the opponent's base and immediately deduce what the expansion timing is', lots of casters (even pros) get that wrong. Understanding the subtleties doesn't take anything more than watching (and casting) a lot of games, and I'd say that TB is getting ample experience in that regard.
Seriously, I could think of any number of casters who have more 'street cred' than TB who are flat-out worse to listen to cast.
TB will make occasional miscalls that I think most of who have been playing since beta will see and wince at a little bit. However, he is entertaining as fuck, I will always listen to him.
Can someone please post a replay of a properly done Dahlgate? I usually play Terran, but for the sake of seeing that the hell it is I'm trying to recreate it in YABOT, but the directions someone posted earlier are vague about a bunch of stuff.
"a Dhalgate is 10 pylon 10 gate 13 gas 15 core probes cut at 18 probes and four warpgates done as soon as possible. it ends up with, executed perfectly, 5 stalkers and 1 zealot outside your opponent's base at 5:10. In practise its closer to 5:30-5:50."
Do you chrono? If you do, what and when? Do you make a zealot out of the first gate, or do you wait and spend those mins into making the next gate? Do you run 3 probes off of the Vespene, or 2, or what? When do you make the second pylon, given that your supply blocked at 18 probes?
I know a lot of this stuff is just "when you need it"...not having played toss, it's just frustrating. Replay, please?
I might not be doing it 100% optimally but it does work pretty reliably PvP and PvT on the ladder for me:
Pylon 10
Gate 10 (before the 11th probe)
CB Nexus one time you start the 11th probe
Gas on 13
Core once the Gate is done
Pylon on 16
If you time it right, Core and pylon will finish just about the same time, you'll have 100 gas and you'll have about 18 probes.
Stop probe production at 18, start Warpgate (priority) and a stalker. Build 3 gates asap, CB Warpgate tech the whole time. When the stalker is done build a 2nd stalker and CB. It should finish shortly before WG tech.
Before WG tech finishes build a proxy pylon at the front with your first stalker and rally your second stalker to the pylon. My own criteria is that I should be warping in my 3 stalkers and 1 zealot at 5:30.
I was thinking about switching from my current Hatch/Queen hotkey setup (Hatches on individual hotkeys, Queens not hotkeyed. Double-tap a hatchery, select Queen, inject, repeat) but couldn't convince myself that any of the others are overall better. DongRaeGu seems to use it too, so I feel a little vindicated, but here are my thoughts on it anyway:
The downsides are of my current setup are:
- I don't have an eye on excess Queen energy for tumors or transfuses (ed: I suppose I can have all Queens on another hotkey I never use, which would fix that)
- It's not as fast as the backspace method or, possibly, minimap-casting
- If I make a macro hatch, I'll probably have to bind it together with the main hatch for that base in order to conserve hotkeys, which means I lose the inject timer display
- I have to cycle through hatches to build units instead of building them from the one control group
- I'm currently dedicating 5 hotkeys to hatcheries, but if I manage to get 6 bases in a game? It gets awkward
The upsides are:
- It is very easy to keep track of inject timers, as they appear in the infocard every time you go to build a set of units
- You can move the camera around between bases very easily
- I'm not wasting APM cycling through Queens; I'm instead cycling through Hatcheries which I need to do anyway to check for larvae
- There are no problems with Queens moving half-way across the map like with backspace or minimap casting
Pretty much I'd be completely satisfied if the macro-hatch and many-bases problems were able to be solved with my current setup. The other downsides aren't a big deal, and I really prefer the upsides of this method to the others (my #1 priority is knowing when to inject, so I need either each Hatchery or each Queen hotkeyed unless I spam minimap or backspace casting every 5 seconds).
Do I have the arguments for&against right? Does anyone know of a way to improve my current method? If Blizzard would display inject timers when you have multiple Hatcheries selected then all would be well, of course.
Yep those are roughly the correct arguments. Although I would emphasize that hotkeying hatches instead of queens is by far the slowest route you can go because you have hit 55 (click/box queen) v click to inject. Also, you run into problems if the queen ran off to chase a drop ship or is otherwise not sitting at the hatchery.
I personally started with queens on successive hotkeys and then moved to backspace injection with the customizable hotkey setup. You can't easily check an injection timer/mana bar with the unit card, but you can just jump back to a base with the base camera key to see if it is time to inject.
As long as you are diligent about staying one queen ahead of your hatcheries and you halt your queens after they inject, I find backspace (really ~ for me) injecting to be the quickest motion to execute with the least amount of room for error.
(In the end though, it is more important to actually hit your injections on time rather than as quickly as possible. So whatever method enables you to do that the best should be what you stick with.)
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Wooh, I feel better now. Went 1-4 in my placement matches, started off as a Rank 88 Bronze, and I'm done as a 13 Gold, something like 180-155. Honestly, getting into the higher levels, it's just not enjoyable anymore. Something like YABOT should not be required for breaking into higher tiers of play on a game. I think Dahl or another diamond hit it on the head in the last thread - Getting any improvement past a certain level requires WORK in this game.
Fuck that shit; I might as well go back to WOW. So much of what I'm seeing in Gold is LESS strategic and creative than what you'd see in bronze. I don't remember the last time when I've seen Brood Lords, Carriers, Battlecruisers, or a Mothership.
Higher level play, as far as I can see my from own experience, is just a race to the bottom - Gosu micro to scout and actually see what the fuck is going on and hours of practice on build orders; or who's the luckiest of the two with regards to blindly picking strategies.
Banshees beats tank, tank beats marines, marines beats banshees.
CheBourgeoisNoir on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
Going to be honest here.
I would rather listen to a "knowledgeless caster" like TB who can actually HYPE THE FUCKING GAME AND COMMENTATE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING
Rather than a ridiculously dry analytical style (e.g. Raelcun).
Obviously Day[9] is the best of both worlds, since he's excitement/hype + ridiculously good knowledge and analysis.
Either is preferable to the GLHF people, who are boring and dry AND bad at analysis and don't understand the game.
I really like a lot of the GLHF casters as people, but as casters...they're bad.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
yeah... that's not really true, but if you stop now it doesn't matter (edit - it's not true that it's a "race to the bottom", or that you are hoping to get lucky)
sorry you don't enjoy the game, obviously a lot of us do since we wanted to put the time in.
when you see results, or at least when I see results it is infinitely more rewarding than when I finish a dungeon in WoW. one takes practice, understanding, refinement, intuition, and game knowledge. the other generally requires spamming.
granted I don't raid so I know it's not the best comparison but um, yeah starcraft 2 is a hard game to get good at.
The "impossible" and "elite marine or w/e" custom maps in sc1 where a TON of fun.
Don't get me started on some OTHER custom maps
*wink wink*
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
It would be cool if custom maps were in SC2 like they were in War3 and BW. I basically pretend they don't exist, rather than getting frustrated at their abysmally poor implementation.
My girlfriend used to play WoW religiously before we started dating. She was clean and dry for about a year before meeting me. When the videos for Burning Crusade started popping up, she told me that the desire to play WoW was welling up agin. My answer was quite simple:
"You play WoW again and I'll break up with you."
She has never been happier to hear such words. Seriously.
MNC Dover on
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I've not used yabot either
edit - alright dover, it's good you were there for her if it's something she couldn't control
Honestly raiding just feels like banging your head against a wall until the wall eventually breaks.
There's a feeling of accomplishment but it's not due to skill it's just sheer number of attempts.
From my perspective the difference between SC and WoW is the personal achievement vs group achievement. In a raid or a dungeon your success or failure depends on how well the group functions, if you are doing well or poorly can have little effect if the others are able to carry you. In SC this is not the case, you have much more ownership of the credit for a win.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
I play a few hours a week. I like the art and have fun healing dungeons but I don't feel compelled to play very often and don't have scheduled anything, I'm not quite that involved.
I feel more bad that I haven't laddered in a week or two
edit - alright dover, it's good you were there for her if it's something she couldn't control
I think she could have controlled it, I just helped make her choice easier. It's a two way street though, if I get too into a game, like SC2, BLOPS, or SSF4, she can back me down and remind me what's really important in life.
SC2!
Slightly off-topic, the other day a friend of mine was asking me about if I still played SC2 and she cut me off by saying, "We require more minerals! Additional supply depots required!"
....sigh....always a reminder that my macro is slipping.
MNC Dover on
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Wooh, I feel better now. Went 1-4 in my placement matches, started off as a Rank 88 Bronze, and I'm done as a 13 Gold, something like 180-155. Honestly, getting into the higher levels, it's just not enjoyable anymore. Something like YABOT should not be required for breaking into higher tiers of play on a game. I think Dahl or another diamond hit it on the head in the last thread - Getting any improvement past a certain level requires WORK in this game.
Fuck that shit; I might as well go back to WOW. So much of what I'm seeing in Gold is LESS strategic and creative than what you'd see in bronze. I don't remember the last time when I've seen Brood Lords, Carriers, Battlecruisers, or a Mothership.
Higher level play, as far as I can see my from own experience, is just a race to the bottom - Gosu micro to scout and actually see what the fuck is going on and hours of practice on build orders; or who's the luckiest of the two with regards to blindly picking strategies.
Banshees beats tank, tank beats marines, marines beats banshees.
dude, just play team games. they are like 100% stress free because they are a circus and circuses are fun.
Wooh, I feel better now. Went 1-4 in my placement matches, started off as a Rank 88 Bronze, and I'm done as a 13 Gold, something like 180-155. Honestly, getting into the higher levels, it's just not enjoyable anymore. Something like YABOT should not be required for breaking into higher tiers of play on a game. I think Dahl or another diamond hit it on the head in the last thread - Getting any improvement past a certain level requires WORK in this game.
Fuck that shit; I might as well go back to WOW. So much of what I'm seeing in Gold is LESS strategic and creative than what you'd see in bronze. I don't remember the last time when I've seen Brood Lords, Carriers, Battlecruisers, or a Mothership.
Higher level play, as far as I can see my from own experience, is just a race to the bottom - Gosu micro to scout and actually see what the fuck is going on and hours of practice on build orders; or who's the luckiest of the two with regards to blindly picking strategies.
Banshees beats tank, tank beats marines, marines beats banshees.
dude, just play team games. they are like 100% stress free because they are a circus and circuses are fun.
I'm living proof that 'higher levels' do not revolve around super optimized build orders and shaving seconds off of your builds. It has to do with your decision making, ability to handle stress and the way you react to your opponent. I very, very rarely spend any time in YABOT (Not that my play wouldn't benefit from it). I think often, people spend too much time thinking about their build order as opposed to what their overall game plan is.
I know 'build orders' in that I know the general order I want to get things, why that would help me in certain situations and how it hurts me in others. For the most part, as soon as I throw down my Tier 2 tech building (robo/twilight/stargate), I have no idea what food I should be tossing buildings down. To a large extent, I feel like over planning your build is counter-productive, because so much can happen that forces you to deviate from your original structure.
Edit: Not trying to make it sound like I'm the greatest player of all time, or that I don't have room to improve, but very little of my playstyle and development as a player has come from worrying about build order specifics.
I don't know how to feel about YABOT. I've hit top diamond and never had to use it, and I'd say for any player struggling in sub-diamond leagues they should really avoid using it. YABOT creates this kind of alternate reality where "all I have to is X and I get ahead/win" which is great and all in a kind of glass case but when it comes t to the actual game, it's going to fall apart like any good plan.
As much as I think TL'ers and streamers and programers prattle on about build orders, I think they're only essentially once you have a good feel for the game. And that's not just a "what counters what" feel, but also having a good sense of where you are economically, whether you are ahead or behind both in terms of macro and economics, where to expand, how to position units, keeping on top of macro features (CB, larva inject, mule), and as Spectre just stated, basic on the fly decision making and handling of stress. Once you have all this down pat, you should be in top diamond anyway. Then you can start looking at YABOT. Until then, just keep playing. No matter how many guides you read, no matter how many streams you watch, nothing is going to beat just playing the game.
Also the concept of raiding in WoW is ridiculous to me. Performing these massive group tasks that take days for a small X% chance that an item will drop and then an even smaller Y% chance that you will get it out of the group, and even if you get it it's part of an 8 piece set that when fully combined allows you to....raid for items better.
Posts
also does anyone know if filly is that joe guy who does quake stuff
Careful, he will come in here and lecture you.
"a Dhalgate is 10 pylon 10 gate 13 gas 15 core probes cut at 18 probes and four warpgates done as soon as possible. it ends up with, executed perfectly, 5 stalkers and 1 zealot outside your opponent's base at 5:10. In practise its closer to 5:30-5:50."
Do you chrono? If you do, what and when? Do you make a zealot out of the first gate, or do you wait and spend those mins into making the next gate? Do you run 3 probes off of the Vespene, or 2, or what? When do you make the second pylon, given that your supply blocked at 18 probes?
I know a lot of this stuff is just "when you need it"...not having played toss, it's just frustrating. Replay, please?
Seriously, I could think of any number of casters who have more 'street cred' than TB who are flat-out worse to listen to cast.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I might not be doing it 100% optimally but it does work pretty reliably PvP and PvT on the ladder for me:
Pylon 10
Gate 10 (before the 11th probe)
CB Nexus one time you start the 11th probe
Gas on 13
Core once the Gate is done
Pylon on 16
If you time it right, Core and pylon will finish just about the same time, you'll have 100 gas and you'll have about 18 probes.
Stop probe production at 18, start Warpgate (priority) and a stalker. Build 3 gates asap, CB Warpgate tech the whole time. When the stalker is done build a 2nd stalker and CB. It should finish shortly before WG tech.
Before WG tech finishes build a proxy pylon at the front with your first stalker and rally your second stalker to the pylon. My own criteria is that I should be warping in my 3 stalkers and 1 zealot at 5:30.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Yep those are roughly the correct arguments. Although I would emphasize that hotkeying hatches instead of queens is by far the slowest route you can go because you have hit 55 (click/box queen) v click to inject. Also, you run into problems if the queen ran off to chase a drop ship or is otherwise not sitting at the hatchery.
I personally started with queens on successive hotkeys and then moved to backspace injection with the customizable hotkey setup. You can't easily check an injection timer/mana bar with the unit card, but you can just jump back to a base with the base camera key to see if it is time to inject.
As long as you are diligent about staying one queen ahead of your hatcheries and you halt your queens after they inject, I find backspace (really ~ for me) injecting to be the quickest motion to execute with the least amount of room for error.
(In the end though, it is more important to actually hit your injections on time rather than as quickly as possible. So whatever method enables you to do that the best should be what you stick with.)
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
A compliment, from the Emperor of Whining :>
Wooh, I feel better now. Went 1-4 in my placement matches, started off as a Rank 88 Bronze, and I'm done as a 13 Gold, something like 180-155. Honestly, getting into the higher levels, it's just not enjoyable anymore. Something like YABOT should not be required for breaking into higher tiers of play on a game. I think Dahl or another diamond hit it on the head in the last thread - Getting any improvement past a certain level requires WORK in this game.
Fuck that shit; I might as well go back to WOW. So much of what I'm seeing in Gold is LESS strategic and creative than what you'd see in bronze. I don't remember the last time when I've seen Brood Lords, Carriers, Battlecruisers, or a Mothership.
Higher level play, as far as I can see my from own experience, is just a race to the bottom - Gosu micro to scout and actually see what the fuck is going on and hours of practice on build orders; or who's the luckiest of the two with regards to blindly picking strategies.
Banshees beats tank, tank beats marines, marines beats banshees.
I would rather listen to a "knowledgeless caster" like TB who can actually HYPE THE FUCKING GAME AND COMMENTATE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING
Rather than a ridiculously dry analytical style (e.g. Raelcun).
Obviously Day[9] is the best of both worlds, since he's excitement/hype + ridiculously good knowledge and analysis.
Either is preferable to the GLHF people, who are boring and dry AND bad at analysis and don't understand the game.
I really like a lot of the GLHF casters as people, but as casters...they're bad.
TB is like the Bloody Mary of these threads. You just have to say his name three times and he appears.
sorry you don't enjoy the game, obviously a lot of us do since we wanted to put the time in.
when you see results, or at least when I see results it is infinitely more rewarding than when I finish a dungeon in WoW. one takes practice, understanding, refinement, intuition, and game knowledge. the other generally requires spamming.
granted I don't raid so I know it's not the best comparison but um, yeah starcraft 2 is a hard game to get good at.
There's a feeling of accomplishment but it's not due to skill it's just sheer number of attempts.
Some of those crazy 6 hr rpg games.
>.<'
No need to uninstall, just leave it be.
SC2 DOTA was a lot of fun at Blizzcon.
ed: yeah never used yabot either... just porting sc1 knowledge over to sc2
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
You can get to Masters without needing to spend hours refining one build.
If you're getting mad, you're doing something wrong
The "impossible" and "elite marine or w/e" custom maps in sc1 where a TON of fun.
Don't get me started on some OTHER custom maps
*wink wink*
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
"You play WoW again and I'll break up with you."
She has never been happier to hear such words. Seriously.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
edit - alright dover, it's good you were there for her if it's something she couldn't control
It's a seriously ridiculous timesink.
From my perspective the difference between SC and WoW is the personal achievement vs group achievement. In a raid or a dungeon your success or failure depends on how well the group functions, if you are doing well or poorly can have little effect if the others are able to carry you. In SC this is not the case, you have much more ownership of the credit for a win.
I feel more bad that I haven't laddered in a week or two
I think she could have controlled it, I just helped make her choice easier. It's a two way street though, if I get too into a game, like SC2, BLOPS, or SSF4, she can back me down and remind me what's really important in life.
Slightly off-topic, the other day a friend of mine was asking me about if I still played SC2 and she cut me off by saying, "We require more minerals! Additional supply depots required!"
....sigh....always a reminder that my macro is slipping.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
WoW however.........................................doesnt own.
dude, just play team games. they are like 100% stress free because they are a circus and circuses are fun.
I'm living proof that 'higher levels' do not revolve around super optimized build orders and shaving seconds off of your builds. It has to do with your decision making, ability to handle stress and the way you react to your opponent. I very, very rarely spend any time in YABOT (Not that my play wouldn't benefit from it). I think often, people spend too much time thinking about their build order as opposed to what their overall game plan is.
I know 'build orders' in that I know the general order I want to get things, why that would help me in certain situations and how it hurts me in others. For the most part, as soon as I throw down my Tier 2 tech building (robo/twilight/stargate), I have no idea what food I should be tossing buildings down. To a large extent, I feel like over planning your build is counter-productive, because so much can happen that forces you to deviate from your original structure.
Edit: Not trying to make it sound like I'm the greatest player of all time, or that I don't have room to improve, but very little of my playstyle and development as a player has come from worrying about build order specifics.
As much as I think TL'ers and streamers and programers prattle on about build orders, I think they're only essentially once you have a good feel for the game. And that's not just a "what counters what" feel, but also having a good sense of where you are economically, whether you are ahead or behind both in terms of macro and economics, where to expand, how to position units, keeping on top of macro features (CB, larva inject, mule), and as Spectre just stated, basic on the fly decision making and handling of stress. Once you have all this down pat, you should be in top diamond anyway. Then you can start looking at YABOT. Until then, just keep playing. No matter how many guides you read, no matter how many streams you watch, nothing is going to beat just playing the game.
Also the concept of raiding in WoW is ridiculous to me. Performing these massive group tasks that take days for a small X% chance that an item will drop and then an even smaller Y% chance that you will get it out of the group, and even if you get it it's part of an 8 piece set that when fully combined allows you to....raid for items better.