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Legal Question - Bad break-up & proving I own something
Tw4win
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Long story short, my girlfriend and I broke up very recently and I moved most of my stuff out of our shared living space today. She's been a bit irrational about the whole thing so in order to expedite the whole process I had the police present as I moved out. Everything went smoothly except that she won't give me back my iPad. When I asked her to get it out of her bedroom she told the police that "I had given it to her as a gift. That's not the case at all but the officer said it was a civil matter that he couldn't settle.
I'm going back tomorrow with a police escort to get the rest of my stuff. I have been unable to find a purchase receipt for the iPad but I can print out documentation from Apple showing that the iPad is registered to me. Do you think this would be enough to convince the police that the iPad actually belongs to me?
I'm going back tomorrow with a police escort to get the rest of my stuff. I have been unable to find a purchase receipt for the iPad but I can print out documentation from Apple showing that the iPad is registered to me. Do you think this would be enough to convince the police that the iPad actually belongs to me?
Tw4win on
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if they said it's a civil matter the last time, chances are just because you have a piece of paper saying it's registered to you doesn't make it NOT a civil matter
how bad do you want it back? lawsuit-bad?
If you want it back lawsuit-bad, thats really your only option for getting it back if she stubbornly maintains its not yours. The police aren't going to force it out of her hands and give it to you, regardless of any documentation you might provide, because they aren't qualified to evaluate the accuracy of that documentation.
However, I think its quite likely, given the documentation is accurate, and SHE knows its accurate, that if the next time you go with the police, you and them speak to her, and say that, given that you have this documentation here, does she not want to just give it to you now and save you both the trouble of a lawsuit, because you are perfectly willing to take it that far if she does not concede.
Best of luck to you.
Of course there probably will be a shitstorm but an ipad isn't something I would be willing to give away for a bit of peace and quiet.
I wasn't suggesting he do it in front of the cops, anyone with common sense would realise that. But it seems to me the burden of proof is only on him because the ipad is currently at her house. If it was at his house (if he took it back slyly while he was there) the burden of proof would be on her and since she doesn't have any proof since it isn't hers that would be a problem solved. Lets not loose sight of the fact that it isn't actually her ipad and her saying so doesn't make it so.
I'm aware it does sound like a grey area but at the end of the day it isn't stealing because it's his ipad, if anything shes the one stealing it. I could walk into your house right now and call all your shit mine and the burden of proof shouldn't be on you to prove otherwise. Call it dumb advice if you want but I thought it might be simpler than getting in a major legal battle with the crazy lady m'kay?
Anyhoo not going to argue the point here anymore since this is H/A and all. The OP is free to take this with a grain of salt.
Worse comes to worse you take her to civil court and present any proof of ownership to the judge there
please do not tell others to steal and try to get around it with "burden of proof" nonsense
at BEST, her finding our he's either snuck into her room later or barged in with the cops somehow not looking to take an iPAD that currently is under dispute of ownership will NOT look all that great on him for anything in the future
at worst he could be arrested
how exactly would he even get to it? He's not in the house, I ASSUME you're not suggesting he break in later
and the police were on hand and witness to the fact that he's abandoned the place, so I'm not sure if "him still living there" would be a viable tactic, as he's already demonstrated the need to have police there when he comes by
seriously, you have proof the ipad is yours if you paid with a credit card or whatever, online banking saves that stuff for aaaaaaaaaages, and they'll have a record, as will apple I believe
In the future, start removing your stuff before you break up/don't leave without all of your stuff. Showing up with an officer in the first place really made this more difficult for just grabbing your shit and leaving. The second you leave anything behind from the word go has to be considered a sacrifice.
edit: I would file a police report claiming it as stolen property, which is it. If you have remote access to it, use whatever security app that I hope to God you have. Treat it as if it were stolen. Just because you know where it is doesn't mean it wasn't stolen. Treat it like its stolen so that you can show the court you're taking this seriously when you ultimately go to court with your evidence.
I'm not saying it was the best suggestion, but I don't see anything wrong with just taking it back provided OP can get away with it without getting caught. Maybe having a mutual friend pick it up or something. The point is, you can't steal something that's already yours.
the very fact that you have to say "make sure you don't get caught" should be a big ol' red flag on this plan
it's a sign to yourself that YOU know this isn't the best idea, let alone advice for someone else to try
I would ask her over the phone about it, away from an audience, she either knows its yours and may cave in, or she genuinely thinks it's not, and will explain why she thinks it's not
in which case, you can find your proof of purchase, and then show her that
edit: if reason fails, treat it as stolen property like improvolone says, though
Consider e-mailing her asking why she won't give your iPad back. If she responds with something other than, "Its not yours its mine", then that will work in your favor if you need to go to court.
Even if you paid for it with cash, depending on the store you bought it from you should be able to get a new copy of the receipt. Even my local Gamestop a while back printed up an old receipt my brother needed because he was able to remember the day he bought it on from like 3 months prior, and he had paid in cash. If you bought it from one of the big stores or even an Apple store, they should be able to produce a copy with the more information you can give them.
edit: and of course the police can't force her to hand it over even with the reciept, but if you just make a copy of it and have them show it to her, she should hand it over. Either way, make sure they enter her saying it's hers in the police report, as to establish her having an iPad, and this would be a pretty open and shut civil case. But don't threaten her with a lawsuit. Just report it stolen after you leave and work from there. The stolen report will make it harder for her to unload it without just outright throwing it out, and if it's 3G enabled this will help you get that part of it shut off and/or remote wiped.
Until then do not email her, do not call her, do not contact her, and when you're there talk to her through the police and don't interrupt her when she's talking to them, wait for her to finish talking, because nothing irritates police more than someone who interrupts the other person. The receipt will have everything as a lock for your favor, so all you have to do is be patient and let her dig her own hole.
Oh come on dude, you can't just leap to the "bitches be crazy" conclusion. The OP said specifically that the transition went smoothly and the cops being there was just a precaution that he chose. The only issue is not getting his iPad.
Considering that this was more than likely a long-term relationship (since they lived together), and they're probably young, I think it's acceptable for someone to be a little irrational about how they handle themselves. It happens.
I do think that if leaving her be for a little doesn't do it, then sure, go to small claims court, that's what it's for. But there's no reason the OP can't try to handle it like an adult and let her cool off first.
The cost/time of small claims court isn't worth it.
If there's proof of purchase, give it a bit before drastic measures. I have to ask why she wants to keep it? Was there ambiguity of ownership? was it *actually* a gift? whose files are on it, primarily?
It's a $600 item she's decided to keep because she's mad they broke up. I don't care if she's 20 or 40 you don't have a right to be immature and steal because you're upset. Yea, he can sit around hoping she stops being a petty witch or he can take active steps to get his stuff back before she suddenly seems to have misplaced it or claims to not have it. If she doesn't give it back when he goes back with the cops then he has no reason to sit around waiting for her to decide she doesn't feel like stealing his iPad anymore.
Also, filing for small claims would still be cheaper than buying a new iPad and there's a chance that rather than go to court she'll give it up. And if she doesn't it's highly unlikely it will cost him more than the iPad to go to court for this.
Am I going to get infracted for saying I agree? Because I do. Try again with the police, present the receipt to her while they are there, if she won't give it to you then, shrug and say okay then send her an email (so you have a record) with a deadline for returning it before you pursue action.
How is that not the most mature and correct response?
Oh, yeah. I had to reread it. The ex probably won't melt if you throw water on her, don't try that.
I'd normally suggest maybe letting a week go by and suggesting you get coffee to talk it over, but even if you were JUST being cautious by bringing the police in... if someone did that to me, I'd not want to talk to them ever again. So, I don't hold out much hope for talking her down. Give it a few days and try can't hurt though, but if she says no, you'll need to pull out the old email "Here is what I'm going to do" routine.
It will suck.
If she responds with anything that isn't, "Its not yours" then she just showed that she isn't contesting it being yours. Don't pull your big gun (court threat) until you have to.
Threatening "I will do this unless..." is just not how people actually negotiate things. It is how they argue though! And arguing is for the birds.
Can you show that you paid for apps for it more recently than buying it? Can you show that there is data on it that is yours and not hers? Or that the apps follow your interests and not hers?
The other route is small claims. You can demonstrate ownership, so unless she can convince the judge you did in fact give it to her as opposed to her refusing to return it when you moved out, you should get it back.
This will be the best way to do it.
Unfortunately since she has possession of she might very well wipe your emails or something.
Which brings me to another point.
She can currently access everything you were logged into, including this site.
I would change every password you have.
Satans..... hints.....
IANAL, but if you gave it to her as a gift, you probably don't have grounds to get it back.
You can ask for it back, but it doesn't sound like she has any obligation to give it back to you.
A gift is consider irrevocable if you intend to give a gift, give it, and the gift is accepted. The fact that 'she was using you' doesn't change those three guidelines.
If you purchased / gave it to her for Christmas, and she's been using it for over a year definitely meets those requirements, so you don't have legal grounds.