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This is a link to the Hirez forums where we are trying to get support behind a map coming back but instead of as CTF as a Capture & Hold Map. So far Everyone there seems to agree there and also on www.reddit.com/r/tribes
The idea is simple the map bella omega should come back for capture and hold using its original generator room. The Capture point should be right where the generator was. Everyone battled in the gen room anyways. Also a third capture point would be in the middle bowl like area.
If you like this idea please go to the link at the top and leave a simple +1 If you have any other thoughts that is welcome too.
Yeah, TDM is great for getting yourself use to loadouts and the controls. I try to play with the PA people on my friends list whenever I see them. Last night 3 or 4 of us were all playing together, good times were had.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
All this dislike for full autos makes me grin. I love love love the INF's Rhino SMG. I've tried the Jackal but I could never get the timing down right, or I'd accidently click 4 times and hurt myself. With the SMG, and throwing knives, I can empty the clip in the SMG, and usually finish them off within 2 knives.
Ask Drake about it.
The Jackal is freaking great for being a sneaky bastard. Watching a tech repairing his turret, sneaking up behind him and dropping all three charges on him is great. He panics, you can hear the "OH SHIT" before he and his turret go boom. Otherwise it's very much about setting up traps. If you're being followed or know someone will be coming around the corner shortly, drop 3 charges and wait for them to kill themselves.
The thing I hate about the Jackal is the auto-fire bug. Often if you only shoot one charge, the weapon will switch to single shot for the rest of that magazine. You have to click once for each shot, but sometimes that doesn't even work and you have to click several times to fire a round. Annoying, but it doesn't happen often enough for it to hurt too bad (though it always happens at the worst time).
And yea, the knives are great. I've hit people from really too far away with them, and they do pretty healthy damage.
I'm not sure of the purpose of the Infiltrator's SMG. The pistol and throwing knives are both fully capable of killing someone on their own. And having an explosive is invaluable indoors.
Ugh, I keep calling in tac strikes instead of inventory stations and vice versa. I've killed myself with tac strikes at least twice now.
The numbering of the three call ins is stupid though. 3 really should be an inventory station, and tactical strikes may as well not exist for how ineffective they are.
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
After playing a few rounds of CTF last night to see what this is all about, I've come to the conclusion that I definitely didn't give this a fair shot the first time around.
I bought the Technician class with my 250 Facebook gold; I loved the Engineer in TF2, so I was hoping it would play a bit like that. To my surprise, I was a lot more active in the battle than a TF2 engineer is. I didn't feel useless when an enemy came to gank me at the generator room, I felt like I had all the tools to hold them off. Having two of my own turrets, a generator, a radar sensor, and 2-3 base turrets that do CRAPLOADS of damage when upgraded always made me feel like there was something important to do that needed my attention at that moment. Having the generator so secluded and far away from the rest of the base was a smart move, it makes me divide my time between protecting the most important asset (the generator) and going out into the field to heal and upgrade the turrets, which actually do the damage. It was very frantic, and I had a blast! Definitely gonna play more of this, I had loads of fun once I got the controls down and knew where everything was that I needed to fix / upgrade.
How does the thumper beat the spinfusor? Last I checked they are identical outside of firing trajectory and ammo count.
You just explained why. The thumper is much much more accurate when jetting around. It is far easier to aim. I haven't used it much at all but swapped over last night on my soldier and instantly started performing better. I then noticed that no one else in the arena game was using a spinfusor. Just thumpers. They do identical damage, but the spinfusor has travel time and can be avoided. The thumper has travel time but it is minuscule in comparison.
Meanwhile, the jackal can be fired in a pattern below where someone will land in a good spread, doing damage in a much larger radius than a spinfusor disc can. Much harder to miss that way.
The spinfusor is sadly not very useful, at least on say, the soldier. Not when the thumper is available. They need to either buff the spinfusor or nerf the thumper because right now, given the option, there's no contest.
The trajectory having a falloff makes it easier to aim? o_O
Could be that the thumper has a more traditional aim. Any other game with a grenade launcher is similar. But the spinfusor is different. I feel like I have to aim farther down to hit what i'm aiming at while jetting with the spinfusor but not with the thumper.
Yeah, that'll be the 50% inheritance kicking in. I imagine the problem is the same with the Thumper, its falloff just negates the inheritance after a certain point.
The thumper also explodes after a bit of travel time meaning you can use it as flak in the air. Don't think the fusor gets that, at least not at the same range.
So because some people find it easier to aim the thumper we need to buff the spinfusor, you are just too ridiculous man. The spinfusor can hit people far further away than the thumper can. Their firing trajectory (straight versus arced) each has their merits, neither is better. The fact that the thumper has a fuse is good and bad. So it sounds like to me they are very similar weapons with minor differences. No need to buff or nerf one relative to the other.
I'm fairly new to the game but it seems like the only time I ever get thumped by Thumper users as Pathfinder is when my skiing is particularly bad, I see it as fair punishment. If I have any sort of momentum going and have sufficient energy to fly around with the jetpack I don't get hit at all.
Experience will vary with other classes.
Also, does anyone else get frustrated with the Spinfusor's lack of splash damage? The explosion graphic makes the splash damage radius look much bigger than it actually is.
So because some people find it easier to aim the thumper we need to buff the spinfusor, you are just too ridiculous man. The spinfusor can hit people far further away than the thumper can. Their firing trajectory (straight versus arced) each has their merits, neither is better. The fact that the thumper has a fuse is good and bad. So it sounds like to me they are very similar weapons with minor differences. No need to buff or nerf one relative to the other.
Equally skilled players using a thumper and a spinfusor. The thumper wins every time. The spinfusor requires more skill to do equivalent damage. That's not "very similar". The thumper arc is incredibly minor, but allows for very simple aiming. If you can't see the difference, go play a few rounds of arena with the soldier and use the spinfusor. Now switch to the thumper and tell me which one is better. Also, your first sentence is not what I said.
If you're trying to destroy base defenses from afar, sure, the spinfusor is better because of the lack of a fuse. If youre doing anything else the thumper is better. Which is not a good thing.
After having put some time in with the spinfusor I do not find it any harder to aim than the thumper. The gun I find easier to hit with is whichever I've used the most often most recently as I've acclimated to its flight trajectory. The spinfusor is simply less intuitive to new players (lots of players have played games with grenade launchers with similar arcs). That doesn't mean that the spinfusor takes more skill, it just means more players will have to get used to it first.
I hit plenty of players (flag runners being the important ones) with the spinfusor from a range further than thumper can. I'm not going to play a few rounds of arena with any loadout, because I have no intent to ever play arena, nor do I care to see how the guns and classes are balanced in that gamemode as really the only balance that matters in Tribes is the CTF balance. I'm not going to say that Brutes need nerfs because of capture and hold, I'm going to say that they need changes because they are under represented in CTF.
I do not remotely agree with your opinion that the thumper is somehow better than the spinfusor at doing everything (but destroying base assets) because the thumper has an arc that you described as "incredibly minor." I find the notion frankly to be utterly absurd and alien to my own play experience.
I'm discussing weapon balance in a player versus player context. Not game type balance. CTF balance is hardly the only balance that matters. To think so is to discount the many other gametypes entirely, which I am certain the developers do not intend.
I would also point out that having to acclimate to a flight trajectory is what I'm talking about. With the thumper, you don't have to do that. With the spinfusor, you do. Thus the thumper is easier to aim with. Having used exclusively the spinfusor for nearly this game's entire beta and in the previous games, I'm not a terrible shot with the thing. But I find nailing targets with the thumper much easier having used it not nearly as much. Of course I'll grant you that when the thumper is out of range, the spinfusor outclasses it. That much is obvious.
Balancing the game around what is easier for a new player to pick up is a terrible idea. You don't compare weapons as used by new players of the game, you compare them for balance reasons as being used be skilled players. In the hands of skilled players the thumper and spinfusor are basically interchangeable outside of some edge cases.
Hey, I mean, pretty much every new player I know or anyone who starts trying to snipe in tribes has a really hard go of it. I guess that means we need to buff the sniper rifles.
I agree with your statement there. But when one item is much easier to use with similar results except in edge cases, there's the issue of the more difficult to use item never being used. In the hands of a skilled player, the fusor still requires more aiming thought at similar ranges than the thumper. That's the problem as I see it.
Also I think we should buff the sniper rifles, but that's a separate issue.
thanks for constantly referring to 'new players' inquisitor, I am not a new player, I have logged many hours into tribes ascend, hell I'm not against tribes ascend, I am glad I have a new tribes title to play. What I am saying is it is ridiculous that I can be at the top of my team for kills, but constantly die to the same weapons, jackals and thumpers. I know how to play the game and I know how to dodge shots, but those weapons have a larger radius and are easier to shoot for sure.
I have no problem hitting people mid air with discs, hell I usually do it 4-5 times a match, but when the only weapon I die to is the thumper or jackal, it makes me think maybe those weapons are a little too easy to use. I guess I am not super awesome at the game like yourself, or I just don't have a super boner for it.
Hehe, well if you actually think the sniper rifle needs buffs than we might as well just toss this conversation aside and just agree to disagree and save both of us a lot of time. The idea that sniper rifles need to be stronger is just so wrongheaded to me that there is just no way we are going to agree on anything, so why bother trying to convince eachother?
Of course, I am right and you are wrong, for the record. :P
Except the Thumper DX, the Soldier Varient, does less damage then a Spinfusor. Enough less damage that it will not kill on two Splash hits like a Fusor would, will not one shot a Light on Direct Damage. The only reason to take ti is to get the Assault Rifle as the Primary.
The Tech Thumper is the one that is identical to the Soldier Disk and it does not have a fixed range.
Except the Thumper DX, the Soldier Varient, does less damage then a Spinfusor. Enough less damage that it will not kill on two Splash hits like a Fusor would, will not one shot a Light on Direct Damage. The only reason to take ti is to get the Assault Rifle as the Primary.
The Tech Thumper is the one that is identical to the Soldier Disk and it does not have a fixed range.
Do you have any stats on that damage? Because from what I could tell last night watching damage numbers, the numbers are identical.
thanks for constantly referring to 'new players' inquisitor, I am not a new player, I have logged many hours into tribes ascend, hell I'm not against tribes ascend, I am glad I have a new tribes title to play. What I am saying is it is ridiculous that I can be at the top of my team for kills, but constantly die to the same weapons, jackals and thumpers. I know how to play the game and I know how to dodge shots, but those weapons have a larger radius and are easier to shoot for sure.
I have no problem hitting people mid air with discs, hell I usually do it 4-5 times a match, but when the only weapon I die to is the thumper or jackal, it makes me think maybe those weapons are a little too easy to use. I guess I am not super awesome at the game like yourself, or I just don't have a super boner for it.
Unless this has been changed in a recent patch the spinfusor and the thumper have the same blast radius.
I specifically haven't been talking about the jackal because I've never used it myself and I hardly ever fight against people using one for whatever reason, so, due to my lack experience with the weapon I've been refraining from commenting. If the only weapon you are dying to is the thumper or jackal is that because they are 'easy to use' or because they are popular? Are they really the only weapon that is killing you or is that just confirmation bias?
I genuinely don't understand how the thumper can be considered to be stronger than the spinfusor KoolEagle.
Who-Psyd: I assumed we were talking about the Tech Thumper the entire time. Yes, the Thumper DX is worse then the spinfusor, you take the Thumper DX when you take the AR so you can disc jump.
Let's do a stats breakdown:
For the Spinfusor and the Tech Thumper:
Damage: 910, Speed: 1.87, DPS: 487, Min-damage: 227, I don't have a number for blast radius but it is the same. I've only been listing one number because they are identical across the board.
ThumperDX: Damage: 770, Speed: 1.87, DPS: 412, Min-Damage: 192. I believe it also has the same blast radius.
The spinfusor and the thumper are the same across the board. Perhaps if you find yourself dying to thumpers all the time and not spinfusors, it is because you are putting yourself into situations where you fight Technicians frequently and not Soldiers.
Well that's nifty. Sorry I don't manage to read every bit of the thread. The dps for both weapons is very very similar. The raw damage is a few hundred off, sure. They're close enough that the thunper's ease of use more than makes up for the slight raw damage output. Miss one disc and the thumper overtakes it. Given its much easier to hit with the thumper, the advantages seem pretty obvious. Plus the tech thumper is exactly identical and gets the accuracy benefits. I should really unlock that one. Jeez.
Wait, you've been trying to say that the Thumper DX is better than the Soldier's Spinfusor?
I thought you were comparing the tech's Thumper.
Jesus. No. One of the soldier's secondaries is NOT better than one of his primaries. Your argument is sad "Well if you keep missing with the spinfusor the thumper does more damage, see!" Really. I didn't realize that hitting was important in terms of doing damage. It is not much easier to hit with the thumper. YOU find it easier to hit with the thumper. Stop conflating your preferences for universal truths.
I much prefer the spinfusor to the thumper. (On the soldier) I unlocked the spinfusor last week, and I pretty much instantly starting killing more people. It feels so much more powerful than the thumper, and I had a ton of trouble aiming the thumper also.
Edit: If we're talking about the tech's thumper, I have no idea. Do the soldier's and the tech's differ in behavior other than damage at all?
Wait, you've been trying to say that the Thumper DX is better than the Soldier's Spinfusor?
I thought you were comparing the tech's Thumper.
Jesus. No. One of the soldier's secondaries is NOT better than one of his primaries. Your argument is sad "Well if you keep missing with the spinfusor the thumper does more damage, see!" Really. I didn't realize that hitting was important in terms of doing damage. It is not much easier to hit with the thumper. YOU find it easier to hit with the thumper. Stop conflating your preferences for universal truths.
No, most people find it easier. Seriously. Try a mode other than CTF and watch how many people get kills with thumpers rather than spinfusors. It's ridiculous. I can also easily dodge a spinfusor shot that I see coming. I can't do that with a thumper shot that I see coming. You've said yourself you haven't played these modes, so until you do you're not arguing from a position of experience. Hitting with the spinfusor is not entirely dependent on your own accuracy. It's also partially influenced by your opponents ability to dodge. The thumper doesn't have that problem, because the projectile speed is too fast to dodge.
I'm going to say lets agree to disagree, obviously we are all biased from our own playing experiences, when I wrote that last night I had played about 10 matches of arena, top of my team for kills and assists, but every death was to the thumper or jackal, not everyone was using the thumper but obviously there were only 5 enemies, so I was going to encounter the same shit over and over.
no point in arguing because everyone has their own opinions, the links provided by glal prove that i'm crazy and a bitter old vet but lets just drop it.
edit: I will say the arena maps are quite different compared to the ctf maps, I think 2 or possibly 3 are actually from tribes 2, but they are small, and its much easier to hit with aoe weapons on those platforms, since there isn't as much skiing and limited landing space.
Posts
This is a link to the Hirez forums where we are trying to get support behind a map coming back but instead of as CTF as a Capture & Hold Map. So far Everyone there seems to agree there and also on www.reddit.com/r/tribes
The idea is simple the map bella omega should come back for capture and hold using its original generator room. The Capture point should be right where the generator was. Everyone battled in the gen room anyways. Also a third capture point would be in the middle bowl like area.
If you like this idea please go to the link at the top and leave a simple +1 If you have any other thoughts that is welcome too.
The Jackal is freaking great for being a sneaky bastard. Watching a tech repairing his turret, sneaking up behind him and dropping all three charges on him is great. He panics, you can hear the "OH SHIT" before he and his turret go boom. Otherwise it's very much about setting up traps. If you're being followed or know someone will be coming around the corner shortly, drop 3 charges and wait for them to kill themselves.
The thing I hate about the Jackal is the auto-fire bug. Often if you only shoot one charge, the weapon will switch to single shot for the rest of that magazine. You have to click once for each shot, but sometimes that doesn't even work and you have to click several times to fire a round. Annoying, but it doesn't happen often enough for it to hurt too bad (though it always happens at the worst time).
And yea, the knives are great. I've hit people from really too far away with them, and they do pretty healthy damage.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
The numbering of the three call ins is stupid though. 3 really should be an inventory station, and tactical strikes may as well not exist for how ineffective they are.
I bought the Technician class with my 250 Facebook gold; I loved the Engineer in TF2, so I was hoping it would play a bit like that. To my surprise, I was a lot more active in the battle than a TF2 engineer is. I didn't feel useless when an enemy came to gank me at the generator room, I felt like I had all the tools to hold them off. Having two of my own turrets, a generator, a radar sensor, and 2-3 base turrets that do CRAPLOADS of damage when upgraded always made me feel like there was something important to do that needed my attention at that moment. Having the generator so secluded and far away from the rest of the base was a smart move, it makes me divide my time between protecting the most important asset (the generator) and going out into the field to heal and upgrade the turrets, which actually do the damage. It was very frantic, and I had a blast! Definitely gonna play more of this, I had loads of fun once I got the controls down and knew where everything was that I needed to fix / upgrade.
Meanwhile, the jackal can be fired in a pattern below where someone will land in a good spread, doing damage in a much larger radius than a spinfusor disc can. Much harder to miss that way.
The spinfusor is sadly not very useful, at least on say, the soldier. Not when the thumper is available. They need to either buff the spinfusor or nerf the thumper because right now, given the option, there's no contest.
Experience will vary with other classes.
Also, does anyone else get frustrated with the Spinfusor's lack of splash damage? The explosion graphic makes the splash damage radius look much bigger than it actually is.
If you're trying to destroy base defenses from afar, sure, the spinfusor is better because of the lack of a fuse. If youre doing anything else the thumper is better. Which is not a good thing.
spinfusor is a better weapon
thumper can wreck people but you have to use it a certain way
A thumper is really good at mashing targets of opportunity, with an altitude advantage, etc
spinfusor is a superior general purpose weapon
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
Jasc, as far as I can tell, you use both weapons in the same way. How do you suppose to use the fusor differently?
I hit plenty of players (flag runners being the important ones) with the spinfusor from a range further than thumper can. I'm not going to play a few rounds of arena with any loadout, because I have no intent to ever play arena, nor do I care to see how the guns and classes are balanced in that gamemode as really the only balance that matters in Tribes is the CTF balance. I'm not going to say that Brutes need nerfs because of capture and hold, I'm going to say that they need changes because they are under represented in CTF.
I do not remotely agree with your opinion that the thumper is somehow better than the spinfusor at doing everything (but destroying base assets) because the thumper has an arc that you described as "incredibly minor." I find the notion frankly to be utterly absurd and alien to my own play experience.
I would also point out that having to acclimate to a flight trajectory is what I'm talking about. With the thumper, you don't have to do that. With the spinfusor, you do. Thus the thumper is easier to aim with. Having used exclusively the spinfusor for nearly this game's entire beta and in the previous games, I'm not a terrible shot with the thing. But I find nailing targets with the thumper much easier having used it not nearly as much. Of course I'll grant you that when the thumper is out of range, the spinfusor outclasses it. That much is obvious.
Hey, I mean, pretty much every new player I know or anyone who starts trying to snipe in tribes has a really hard go of it. I guess that means we need to buff the sniper rifles.
I agree with your statement there. But when one item is much easier to use with similar results except in edge cases, there's the issue of the more difficult to use item never being used. In the hands of a skilled player, the fusor still requires more aiming thought at similar ranges than the thumper. That's the problem as I see it.
Also I think we should buff the sniper rifles, but that's a separate issue.
I have no problem hitting people mid air with discs, hell I usually do it 4-5 times a match, but when the only weapon I die to is the thumper or jackal, it makes me think maybe those weapons are a little too easy to use. I guess I am not super awesome at the game like yourself, or I just don't have a super boner for it.
Of course, I am right and you are wrong, for the record. :P
The Tech Thumper is the one that is identical to the Soldier Disk and it does not have a fixed range.
Do you have any stats on that damage? Because from what I could tell last night watching damage numbers, the numbers are identical.
http://ph-matt.dyndns.org/~matt/weapondamage.php
Unless this has been changed in a recent patch the spinfusor and the thumper have the same blast radius.
I specifically haven't been talking about the jackal because I've never used it myself and I hardly ever fight against people using one for whatever reason, so, due to my lack experience with the weapon I've been refraining from commenting. If the only weapon you are dying to is the thumper or jackal is that because they are 'easy to use' or because they are popular? Are they really the only weapon that is killing you or is that just confirmation bias?
I genuinely don't understand how the thumper can be considered to be stronger than the spinfusor KoolEagle.
Who-Psyd: I assumed we were talking about the Tech Thumper the entire time. Yes, the Thumper DX is worse then the spinfusor, you take the Thumper DX when you take the AR so you can disc jump.
Let's do a stats breakdown:
For the Spinfusor and the Tech Thumper:
Damage: 910, Speed: 1.87, DPS: 487, Min-damage: 227, I don't have a number for blast radius but it is the same. I've only been listing one number because they are identical across the board.
ThumperDX: Damage: 770, Speed: 1.87, DPS: 412, Min-Damage: 192. I believe it also has the same blast radius.
The spinfusor and the thumper are the same across the board. Perhaps if you find yourself dying to thumpers all the time and not spinfusors, it is because you are putting yourself into situations where you fight Technicians frequently and not Soldiers.
I thought you were comparing the tech's Thumper.
Jesus. No. One of the soldier's secondaries is NOT better than one of his primaries. Your argument is sad "Well if you keep missing with the spinfusor the thumper does more damage, see!" Really. I didn't realize that hitting was important in terms of doing damage. It is not much easier to hit with the thumper. YOU find it easier to hit with the thumper. Stop conflating your preferences for universal truths.
Edit: If we're talking about the tech's thumper, I have no idea. Do the soldier's and the tech's differ in behavior other than damage at all?
No, most people find it easier. Seriously. Try a mode other than CTF and watch how many people get kills with thumpers rather than spinfusors. It's ridiculous. I can also easily dodge a spinfusor shot that I see coming. I can't do that with a thumper shot that I see coming. You've said yourself you haven't played these modes, so until you do you're not arguing from a position of experience. Hitting with the spinfusor is not entirely dependent on your own accuracy. It's also partially influenced by your opponents ability to dodge. The thumper doesn't have that problem, because the projectile speed is too fast to dodge.
no point in arguing because everyone has their own opinions, the links provided by glal prove that i'm crazy and a bitter old vet but lets just drop it.
edit: I will say the arena maps are quite different compared to the ctf maps, I think 2 or possibly 3 are actually from tribes 2, but they are small, and its much easier to hit with aoe weapons on those platforms, since there isn't as much skiing and limited landing space.