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Carver is like the perfect release valve for all the built up anger over those times I've never been able sufficiently tell a companion to fuck themselves
I get to do it to Carver like, every line
Elendil on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
I never disliked the first one...well...except for the gameplay and dungeons.
They fixed 1 out of 2 of those things so I'm happier.
I have to agree with Blackjack. Yes, DA2's dungeons are almost all the same dungeon recycled over and over with different parts blocked off and others opened up, but they're so, so much better.
At the very least, I'm only there for ten or fifteen minutes tops instead of three hours.
Pancake on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Not having plot locations that take 6+ hours of gameplay to go through alone makes this game way better.
Yeah I'd say the dungeons were a huge improvement just because they are a reasonable length now, many of them were just ridiculously long in DA:O.
Plus much better companions and a far more interesting main character (you can't really call the Warden a "character" at all). And I liked the story (and especially its execution) better.
They are lots better! If you combine all of the time you spent in the "cave" dungeon, you still wouldn't match the time you spent in the Deep Roads or Circle Tower. And they're better looking than those places.
They are lots better! If you combine all of the time you spent in the "cave" dungeon, you still wouldn't match the time you spent in the Deep Roads or Circle Tower.
Yeah but if you translated the new gameplay into Origins they might not be so bad!
And if you liked the dungeons in DA:O even a teensy little bit, the ones in DA2 are gonna make your eyeballs spin backwards with the force of a power sander at how stupid the implementation is in the second one. Hell if you like the dungeons in ANY other rpg that's likely to happen. Constantly recycled rooms that don't even conform to the quest you are doing half the time? YES PLEASE!
I mean, I get it, It's time to whine about DA:O again and how DA2 is awsomesauce, but saying the dungeon design has improved is quite the madness. Hell, how has it improved when it barely even exists? That was EASILY the most jarring part of the game for me, and is a prime example of what happens when you ask a team to make a sequel to a popular game, but in, what, half the time it took to make the original?
And if you liked the dungeons in DA:O even a teensy little bit, the ones in DA2 are gonna make your eyeballs spin backwards with the force of a power sander at how stupid the implementation is in the second one. Hell if you like the dungeons in ANY other rpg that's likely to happen. Constantly recycled rooms that don't even conform to the quest you are doing half the time? YES PLEASE!
I mean, I get it, It's time to whine about DA:O again and how DA2 is awsomesauce, but saying the dungeon design has improved is quite the madness. Hell, how has it improved when it barely even exists? That was EASILY the most jarring part of the game for me, and is a prime example of what happens when you ask a team to make a sequel to a popular game, but in, what, half the time it took to make the original?
DAO took some years actually think it was in the works at the start of the 21st century.
And no one is whining about anything, no need to be so dramatic.
That being said...DA1/DA2...both dungeons were bad in their own special way.
Honestly, the only problem I really have with the cut and paste dungeons is that the minimap doesn't change.
Would I prefer unique caves? Sure, who wouldn't. Is the reuse of the cave area a blight on gaming? Not really at all actually.
And, I believe you'll find no one is praising them. All I am saying is they're better than DA:O's dungeons. Similarly, being punched in the face is better than being set on fire. Neither is what one would call "ideal" but one certainly is better than the other.
I didn't mind the DA:O dungeons so much. I'm an RPG-player. I played MMORPGs. Par for the course.
What I did get annoyed with was all the damn walking. Did you just clear out a massive-ass dungeon? Good, now walk all the way back to the entrance! Or run up and down the goddamned tower like an underpaid intern! Or you've arrived at a branch in the road, and both branches are extremely long hallways leading to mystery stuff - however will you choose?! I like that they're more linear now, with dead-end diversions being shorter, and they'll often stick an exit at the end.
The dungeon reuse is really the only thing that people on here agree is a big fault of the game, it's a shame because I'm sure the devs realized that fault and just didn't have the resources to deal with it given the time crunch. I wonder how much more variation they would've been able to add in had they been given 1 or 2 more months.
The dungeon reuse is really the only thing that people on here agree is a big fault of the game, it's a shame because I'm sure the devs realized that fault and just didn't have the resources to deal with it given the time crunch. I wonder how much more variation they would've been able to add in had they been given 1 or 2 more months.
That's what I suspect, it was a time issue. "We made an awsome 3 dungeons!" Great, make ten more "No way in hell we have time!"
Yeah, that's my point. I can get people not liking the DA:O design, but to then turn around and praise the DA2 cookie cutter approach?
What?
I think it's being praised in comparison to the DA:O design. And I gotta agree, the DA:O dungeons were the worst, just pure padding to extend the length of the game.
Only part where you felt like you were exploring. Not just off the beaten track but down in the bowels of the earth, a million miles from safety. If you die down here no-one will ever know.
Compared to DA2 where even the most remote of locations are simply 'that cave on the beach that everyone knows about'.
All sense of exploration and adventure has been taken out of these games. In Baldur's Gate you ventured into the wilderness, the fucking middle of nowhere. Some maps were just forest. Nothing in them, just trees and rocks. And that was great. It made discovery feel like actual achievement, rather than an inevitability.
I want those situations where I'm down to my last 2 health potions and shit I'd better ration these because it's another six hours back to civilization. You don't even need to buy any potions in DA2, because enemies drop them proportional to a quota so you are never out. There's no sense of survival, of battling against the elements. No fatigue, no stress or worry. It's just a nice roller coaster of a ride through mystical caves and underground mines. Keep you swords and shields in until the train comes to a complete stop.
Things don't have to be "a blight on gaming" to be a really bad idea though. :?
Things can also be a bad idea and also be better than the ideas used in Origins.
But, honestly, we're never going to convince each other and it's basically becoming "NUH UH" "UH HUH" so let's just agree to disagree before someone calls someone else a poopy head. :P
Only part where you felt like you were exploring. Not just off the beaten track but down in the bowels of the earth, a million miles from safety. If you die down here no-one will ever know.
Compared to DA2 where even the most remote of locations are simply 'that cave on the beach that everyone knows about'.
All sense of exploration and adventure has been taken out of these games. In Baldur's Gate you ventured into the wilderness, the fucking middle of nowhere. Some maps were just forest. Nothing in them, just trees and rocks. And that was great. It made discovery feel like actual achievement, rather than an inevitability.
I want those situations where I'm down to my last 2 health potions and shit I'd better ration these because it's another six hours back to civilization. You don't even need to buy any potions in DA2, because enemies drop them proportional to a quota so you are never out. There's no sense of survival, of battling against the elements. No fatigue, no stress or worry. It's just a nice roller coaster of a ride through mystical caves and underground mines. Keep you swords and shields in until the train comes to a complete stop.
So I'm guessing you enjoyed Demon's Souls?
I agree that the Deep Roads were the best part of DA:O, it was the Andraste's Urn, Circle Tower, and Brecilian Ruins dungeons that realllllyyyy dragged on for me. The Deep Roads actually had story points and cool moments sprinkled throughout and you actually felt like you were going deeper, finding places that hadn't been touched by anything but darkspawn for hundreds of years.
Though if you've read the two Dragon Age books, the Deep Roads are nothing like how the lead writer originally envisioned them. Would've been sooooo much cooler to get that version of the Deep Roads. Was hoping to see something closer to that in DA2 but no dice.
For the most part though... the DA2 dungeons don't even look all that time consuming to create. I mean, you've got the sewer dungeons... which are just a collection of dull brown rooms, with a few piles of rubble copy and pasted around. You've got some really small dungeons in the buildings, which are big open rooms with a second floor that contains two smaller rooms. Also really dull brown. You've got the two kinds of natural caves, which are a little less boxy and have stalactites and stalagmites copy and pasted everywhere. And then you've got the cave dungeon that looks like the Deep Roads, which is just a bunch of rectangular corridors with some streams of lava on both sides.
It's not like they were crafting the inside of the alien mothership in Crysis or anything. Now that level took some major resources. I can understand not being able to create more of those. These levels for the most part are simple, I think I've seen greater complexity from levels in Quake 1 mods.
For the most part though... the DA2 dungeons don't even look all that time consuming to create. I mean, you've got the sewer dungeons... which are just a collection of dull brown rooms, with a few piles of rubble copy and pasted around. You've got some really small dungeons in the buildings, which are big open rooms with a second floor that contains two smaller rooms. Also really dull brown. You've got the two kinds of natural caves, which are a little less boxy and have stalactites and stalagmites copy and pasted everywhere. And then you've got the cave dungeon that looks like the Deep Roads, which are just rectangular corridors with some streams of lava on both sides.
It's not like they were crafting the inside of the alien mothership in Crysis or anything. Now that level took some major resources. I can understand not being able to create more of those.
Agreed, only thing I can think of is that they either started building the dungeons too late and just didn't have time to add any more, or they built them and then had to pull those resources elsewhere to get everything else done on time. It's a shame. Another month or two extra time and they would've been able to erase my biggest complaint about the game.
I somehow doubt this would've done anything to change the haters' opinion of the game however
Question about the skip the Fade mod, does it still give you all the +attribute points that you get in the fade?
I think Bioware realized how the Fade is not particular exciting, and put all the bonus points in there to make it worthwhile. The only reason I didn't mind that section is because all those points.
Yeah and considering how much time you spend in the Fade in DA:O...
It's pretty shocking in DA2 that you only enter the Fade once, and I think it's in a sidequest that you don't even need to complete. I was expecting some Fade stuff in Act 3, especially in the finale, considering its importance to the whole templar/mage thing.
Though if you've read the two Dragon Age books, the Deep Roads are nothing like how the lead writer originally envisioned them. Would've been sooooo much cooler to get that version of the Deep Roads. Was hoping to see something closer to that in DA2 but no dice.
Could you please illuminate those of us who haven't?
DA2's dungeons have a lot more... Gauntlet feel to them. I agree that there's a minimal... sense of wonderment. I compare the one castle we go through in DA2 (just trying to avoid spoiler tags) compared to the various castles we went through in Denerim, and it just doesn't compare.
Posts
Carver: Have we met any templars who aren't complete prigs?
Hawke: Well, there you go.
Well I don't have any sisters, but I have an older brother and... yeah, it's a conflicted thing.
I'd say it's pretty well like!
I get to do it to Carver like, every line
They fixed 1 out of 2 of those things so I'm happier.
Thanks!
Which was fixed?
Gameplay, I actually have fun with it now.
As for the dungeons...they're still samey and boring...but at least they're shorter!
the dungeons are even worse
or mostly even worse
they're at least a lot shorter
They are samey and the cave is reused bunches but I think you don't remember how godawful the dungeons in Origins were.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
At the very least, I'm only there for ten or fifteen minutes tops instead of three hours.
Orzimmar sucked.
but I wouldn't call the dungeons better necessarily
there were a couple of rooms in origins I thought were okay
Plus much better companions and a far more interesting main character (you can't really call the Warden a "character" at all). And I liked the story (and especially its execution) better.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
except the mage tower probably
and the deep roads
and did we really need two brecilian forests
I mean, I get it, It's time to whine about DA:O again and how DA2 is awsomesauce, but saying the dungeon design has improved is quite the madness. Hell, how has it improved when it barely even exists? That was EASILY the most jarring part of the game for me, and is a prime example of what happens when you ask a team to make a sequel to a popular game, but in, what, half the time it took to make the original?
Question asked, question answered!
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
DAO took some years actually think it was in the works at the start of the 21st century.
And no one is whining about anything, no need to be so dramatic.
That being said...DA1/DA2...both dungeons were bad in their own special way.
After the first couple times through the circle tower I installed the skip the fade mod, but other than that i enjoyed the game a ton.
I like big dungeons, I cannot lie.
What?
Would I prefer unique caves? Sure, who wouldn't. Is the reuse of the cave area a blight on gaming? Not really at all actually.
And, I believe you'll find no one is praising them. All I am saying is they're better than DA:O's dungeons. Similarly, being punched in the face is better than being set on fire. Neither is what one would call "ideal" but one certainly is better than the other.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
What I did get annoyed with was all the damn walking. Did you just clear out a massive-ass dungeon? Good, now walk all the way back to the entrance! Or run up and down the goddamned tower like an underpaid intern! Or you've arrived at a branch in the road, and both branches are extremely long hallways leading to mystery stuff - however will you choose?! I like that they're more linear now, with dead-end diversions being shorter, and they'll often stick an exit at the end.
That's what I suspect, it was a time issue. "We made an awsome 3 dungeons!" Great, make ten more "No way in hell we have time!"
I think it's being praised in comparison to the DA:O design. And I gotta agree, the DA:O dungeons were the worst, just pure padding to extend the length of the game.
Only part where you felt like you were exploring. Not just off the beaten track but down in the bowels of the earth, a million miles from safety. If you die down here no-one will ever know.
Compared to DA2 where even the most remote of locations are simply 'that cave on the beach that everyone knows about'.
All sense of exploration and adventure has been taken out of these games. In Baldur's Gate you ventured into the wilderness, the fucking middle of nowhere. Some maps were just forest. Nothing in them, just trees and rocks. And that was great. It made discovery feel like actual achievement, rather than an inevitability.
I want those situations where I'm down to my last 2 health potions and shit I'd better ration these because it's another six hours back to civilization. You don't even need to buy any potions in DA2, because enemies drop them proportional to a quota so you are never out. There's no sense of survival, of battling against the elements. No fatigue, no stress or worry. It's just a nice roller coaster of a ride through mystical caves and underground mines. Keep you swords and shields in until the train comes to a complete stop.
But, honestly, we're never going to convince each other and it's basically becoming "NUH UH" "UH HUH" so let's just agree to disagree before someone calls someone else a poopy head. :P
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
So I'm guessing you enjoyed Demon's Souls?
I agree that the Deep Roads were the best part of DA:O, it was the Andraste's Urn, Circle Tower, and Brecilian Ruins dungeons that realllllyyyy dragged on for me. The Deep Roads actually had story points and cool moments sprinkled throughout and you actually felt like you were going deeper, finding places that hadn't been touched by anything but darkspawn for hundreds of years.
Though if you've read the two Dragon Age books, the Deep Roads are nothing like how the lead writer originally envisioned them. Would've been sooooo much cooler to get that version of the Deep Roads. Was hoping to see something closer to that in DA2 but no dice.
It's not like they were crafting the inside of the alien mothership in Crysis or anything. Now that level took some major resources. I can understand not being able to create more of those. These levels for the most part are simple, I think I've seen greater complexity from levels in Quake 1 mods.
Agreed, only thing I can think of is that they either started building the dungeons too late and just didn't have time to add any more, or they built them and then had to pull those resources elsewhere to get everything else done on time. It's a shame. Another month or two extra time and they would've been able to erase my biggest complaint about the game.
I somehow doubt this would've done anything to change the haters' opinion of the game however
I think Bioware realized how the Fade is not particular exciting, and put all the bonus points in there to make it worthwhile. The only reason I didn't mind that section is because all those points.
since now you had to backtrack more/check a list to make sure you get everything/do it ASAP to min/max points
-edit-
Even the codex entries.
There's no reason not to install it unless you like doing the fade.
Could you please illuminate those of us who haven't?
DA2's dungeons have a lot more... Gauntlet feel to them. I agree that there's a minimal... sense of wonderment. I compare the one castle we go through in DA2 (just trying to avoid spoiler tags) compared to the various castles we went through in Denerim, and it just doesn't compare.