I get some of the ire. I don't think EA is going to drop the price anytime soon though. Has anyone gotten any sort of sales data regarding first week sales. I know the PC version is outselling the console versions, but I'd be really interested to see just how the numbers are divided up at this point.
BornToHula on
Origin is the exact same as my Steam, in case you're needing a Support or Assault in BF3.
Yeah, Activision and then everyone else following suit with the $60 PC game price tag has shown me that I indeed have the willpower to not buy games at day 1! That I can indeed wait the short while it takes most of those games to drop 40% or more in price because they're not really worth that much by far!
Thanks greedy video game companies for making me feel better about myself!
Ya know, I've been down on this game's story, and how poorly it's presented, but... after replaying it, there is this one written monologue that actually worked. One particular speech that actually got to me:
Hargreave: "Will there be an afterlife, I wonder? Choirs of angels? Or a fiery pit? One unlearns these falsehoods over time, but the child who learnt to fear hell is never really gone."
Negativity from some people about this games singleplayer confuse me. It's pretty much perfect to me, and I'm about 2/3rds through. I really can't think of any faults.
It's almost as if people can have different opinions.
There are no rational or reasonable opinions which have condemned the game that I've found. Mostly just "it's shitty" and/or "it's consolized" which are both loads of crap.
Well, when Crysis 1 was so famed for its super massive gigantic gorgeous maps where Crysis 2, from all accounts has much smaller maps due to console memory constraints, I can kinda understand the "it's consolized" arguments.
Personally, that made the game for me, and hearing that they don't exist, along with all the other complaints from the PC version (the options screen specifically, I generally turn down shadows while turning textures and shaders up on almost all my games so they run at an acceptable level while still looking awesome) pretty much made this a "wait for it" thing.
I'll probably pick it up on sale, I'm not paying $60 for a PC game.
THE PRICE IS CONSOLIZED AT LEAST! :P
There's a config tool up on fileplanet that lets you completely customize graphics settings. Should have been included in the game, but the config thing is really really easy to get and use.
Negativity from some people about this games singleplayer confuse me. It's pretty much perfect to me, and I'm about 2/3rds through. I really can't think of any faults.
It's almost as if people can have different opinions.
There are no rational or reasonable opinions which have condemned the game that I've found. Mostly just "it's shitty" and/or "it's consolized" which are both loads of crap.
Well, when Crysis 1 was so famed for its super massive gigantic gorgeous maps where Crysis 2, from all accounts has much smaller maps due to console memory constraints, I can kinda understand the "it's consolized" arguments.
Personally, that made the game for me, and hearing that they don't exist, along with all the other complaints from the PC version (the options screen specifically, I generally turn down shadows while turning textures and shaders up on almost all my games so they run at an acceptable level while still looking awesome) pretty much made this a "wait for it" thing.
I'll probably pick it up on sale, I'm not paying $60 for a PC game.
THE PRICE IS CONSOLIZED AT LEAST! :P
There's also of course the problem that multiplayer's completely b0rked at the moment, at least PC side.
XML hacks shouldn't even be possible these days, that's just stupid and there's no real reason they could give for how they allowed that.
Although more worrying is that I'm also hearing now that it doesn't actually check the game keys and pirated copies are being allowed to play and hack online with people who bought the game. Can anyone confirm this one?
EDIT: Now that I'm reading about this a bit more, the problems with the multiplayer actually make more sense. The multiplayer wasn't handled by the core Crytek team that did Crysis Wars. It was handled by Crytek UK, who were originally Free Radical Design. Their entire experience of making multiplayer games is for the consoles. They didn't design the game to really take into consideration any of even the most basic issues that would affect the PC version simply because those are things they've simply have no experience with and have never dealt with before. So the game was pushed out without addressing them. Coupled with the fact that they didn't really get any background on Crysis Wars in general, I guess it's not so much of a surprise anymore that the multiplayer's so messed up PC-side at the moment.
It's not a surprise, but it is pretty disappointing.
Ya know, I've been down on this game's story, and how poorly it's presented, but... after replaying it, there is this one written monologue that actually worked. One particular speech that actually got to me:
Hargreave: "Will there be an afterlife, I wonder? Choirs of angels? Or a fiery pit? One unlearns these falsehoods over time, but the child who learnt to fear hell is never really gone."
That feels very Richard Morgan.
I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of sweaty nano-sex though.
As someone who never played cod, this whole "grind to become more competitive" design is pretty bullshit.
I know, right? It's just a cheap way of getting people to play your game when it's not fun enough to play on its own merits. Developers have realized that our brains get all happy whenever we're rewarded with something, so they've decided to turn everything into a reward, which I suppose would be fine if the end result wasn't forcing us to earn the right to play the competitive multiplayer game we bought. I don't even enjoy making people unlock stuff in single player but at least that kind of makes sense because some of the fun in lots of single player games is advancing through the game and opening up new things, but multiplayer is about shooting other people and I shouldn't be handicapped in that respect just so the developers can make me feel like I'm progressing when all that is really happening is that I'm getting closer to the point that the game should have been in from day 1.
Ya know, I've been down on this game's story, and how poorly it's presented, but... after replaying it, there is this one written monologue that actually worked. One particular speech that actually got to me:
Hargreave: "Will there be an afterlife, I wonder? Choirs of angels? Or a fiery pit? One unlearns these falsehoods over time, but the child who learnt to fear hell is never really gone."
That feels very Richard Morgan.
I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of sweaty nano-sex though.
Several of Hargreaves' speeches are pretty well done.
The problem is that they're all within the context of Science Fiction Aliens Bullshit Magic Technology.
It's like +5 for the writing per dialogue/monologue, cumulative, -500 for the setting, persistent.
By the end, even if you rack up 300 for the greatness of the writing, you're still down 200.
BlackDove on
0
Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Favourite Hargreaves quote :
"Death is an inconvenience now, we are all dead men walking"
Oh, and one bit also made me slightly rage due to a cutscene quick time event
you fight your way over a bridge; when you reach the other side, it starts to fall apart, and you turn around to see lots of debris. The whole thing looks like an in-game cutscene, so I missed the quite small button prompt that resulted in a bus landing on top of me. Because of this, I had to do the whole thing again
Anyway, I enjoyed the single player game alot. I know I've moaned a bit, but those things are little, and are only really jarring because of how good the rest of the game is.
Regarding that segment:
I thought Tara Strickland was in that bus, since in the brief moment where it flew over my head I saw a female corpse which looked like it had a CELL uniform on - the game seemed to focus on it, too, though I guess it was supposed to be drawing attention to the fact that hey, there's a freaking bus flying over your head. That lead to a "welp, she gets revealed as good then dies" moment until about a second into the next level when Gould was talking to her. :?
Is there actually a time limit on that whole section? As in, will the Prism actually explode after a set time if you stay back and fight through the whole thing? I just hit Cloak and sprinted past everything, stopping only to kill the one Heavy on the bridge; seems like it'd be pretty fun to redo "properly", though.
Any time I was told to hurry up, especially because X was just about to happen, I took my time and X never happened until I went past a check point. I took my sweet time on that bridge killing them all
Man, the AI is just as bad as it has ever been in a Crytek game.
Try uncloaking near a group of baddies you'll notice how uniform their reaction time is, it's like there's no intermediate levels between noticing you and not noticing you. One guy could see only your foot from 30 feet away and the other guy could be standing in front of you as you uncloak and they'll both start firing at you at the exact same time, speed of which depends on difficulty level with the reaction time on harder difficulties being hilariously fast.
And there's still a problem with enemies seeing your through walls. I'm not going to even mention the AI's inability to maneuver around without bumping into each other, because who honestly expected them to fix that?
*sigh* I'm fairly certain the original Crysis demo came with an editor, and if it didn't, the game sure as hell did. And what an amazing editor too. You just press a button and BAM, you're walking around in your level.
*sigh* I'm fairly certain the original Crysis demo came with an editor, and if it didn't, the game sure as hell did. And what an amazing editor too. You just press a button and BAM, you're walking around in your level.
The unreal 3 editor is one of the most amazing editors I've ever played with, that 'Press a button and BAM' thing is so goddamn useful for level editing. . I've watched videos of the new Crytech engine and I just want want want.
Does the PC version of Crysis come with the editing software? Because I would pay 60 dollars to play with that.
Crysis 2? No.
CryEngine 3's Sandbox Editor is due "Summer"
Ahh boo. Ahh well, hopefully the game will drop down to 50 by Summer...one can hope.
50 sounds possible. I'd go so far to say that it could get lower at some places, but that's just pure speculation. If you're not keen on multiplayer you can just buy it used, though in that case I'd advise you to spend 20 or less at most. With multiplayer it's more like 30.
As someone who never played cod, this whole "grind to become more competitive" design is pretty bullshit.
I know, right? It's just a cheap way of getting people to play your game when it's not fun enough to play on its own merits. Developers have realized that our brains get all happy whenever we're rewarded with something, so they've decided to turn everything into a reward, which I suppose would be fine if the end result wasn't forcing us to earn the right to play the competitive multiplayer game we bought. I don't even enjoy making people unlock stuff in single player but at least that kind of makes sense because some of the fun in lots of single player games is advancing through the game and opening up new things, but multiplayer is about shooting other people and I shouldn't be handicapped in that respect just so the developers can make me feel like I'm progressing when all that is really happening is that I'm getting closer to the point that the game should have been in from day 1.
Yeah, I want to touch upon this issue a bit more. I have a problem with it because it forces you to play in ways that aren't fun. That should never be the goal of game design, to force people to do things that are unnatural and unenjoyable. Yet that's what this leveling system does. I'll throw out some examples. What if I'm the kinda guy who wants to play on Classic mode (this isn't actually my opinion, I'm just using a hypothetical here)? What if I enjoy gameplay without armor mode or cloak mode, because I feel annoyed by having to shoot through the armor, or getting ambushed by cloaked guys all the time? I just maybe want to enjoy playing as a regular soldier with guns? Well, I've gotta wait until level 28. That means that for 27 levels, I'm grinding away on game modes that I just don't enjoy. Game modes that I might actually loathe! 27 levels is a long time to be doing something you might not care for. Why not give me the option to play Classic right from the getgo? How is that a bad thing? And ya know, once I do get to lvl 28, guess what? There're hardly any games to play, because only a very small number of people have also managed to grind up to lvl 28.
And this sorta unnatural masochism also extends to the weapons. For your sidearm, you can pick an AY69. But hey, what if I want to use a reflex sight on this AY69, because it'll be better for aiming? Well, then I've actually gotta use the AY69 and get kills with it. But who wants to actually do that in a game? Who wants to play a multiplayer game by using a sidearm, going up against competitors who are using their primary rifles and probably going to rape your face off? Does that sound like fun, running around with this weak backup weapon and trying to get kills against much better armed opponents? I don't think so, but that's what the mechanic forces you to do. You can only get that attachment unlock if you get kills with that particular weapon. If you just use your primary, like the SCAR, and manage to tally up 500 or 1000 kills with it, it's still not going to help you unlock any attachments for the AY69, you're still shit out of luck. You can get 5000 kills with the SCAR, but none of that excess experience ever gets diverted to other weapons, which sucks.
Now, MMOs do have this lvling system for secondary skills, like herbalism or cooking. And yeah, it can be kinda dull and boring to level up cooking, for example. It's not a ton of fun. But if you're left alone, you can get it done and it's just an amount of time you have to devote. Trying to kill other twitchy people in a hostile environment with a sidearm when they're gunning for you with much better weapons is far far more frustrating and painful, IMO.
Thinking more about the multiplayer, I have to say that Crashsite is really not my cup of tea. I thought it would be, since I love Conquest-type game modes, like in the BattleField games, but Crashsite is *not* that much like Conquest. Instead of having multiple nodes to capture, which spreads the actual combat out a bit, Crashsite only has a single node, which eventually expires and then a new one spawns somewhere else. What's frustrating is that this means that you never really have a clear idea where the node is, it has to be found by someone. With a set node location, you know where it is and you can plan on how you're going to approach it, how to capture it, and how to defend it. With a node that randomly spawns somewhere, everyone just bumrushes it and you're got no real idea how to approach it.
And because there's only one node at a time, that basically funnels everyone into it and it turns into this huge meatgrinder. When you have multiple nodes, like 3 or 5 in Conquest, everyone can spread out and it feels much less chaotic and more manageable.
Thinking more about the multiplayer, I have to say that Crashsite is really not my cup of tea. I thought it would be, since I love Conquest-type game modes, like in the BattleField games, but Crashsite is *not* that much like Conquest. Instead of having multiple nodes to capture, which spreads the actual combat out a bit, Crashsite only has a single node, which eventually expires and then a new one spawns somewhere else. What's frustrating is that this means that you never really have a clear idea where the node is, it has to be found by someone. With a set node location, you know where it is and you can plan on how you're going to approach it, how to capture it, and how to defend it. With a node that randomly spawns somewhere, everyone just bumrushes it and you're got no real idea how to approach it.
And because there's only one node at a time, that basically funnels everyone into it and it turns into this huge meatgrinder. When you have multiple nodes, like 3 or 5 in Conquest, everyone can spread out and it feels much less chaotic and more manageable.
Sounds a lot more like Headquarters mode from Call of Duty.
Not that it necessarily alleviates things, but Crashsite isn't really all that different from pretty much any other King of the Hill variant (at least from my time with it in the demo).
Personally, I think KotH really works best when there are maps designed specifically around it. Couldn't really say how that pans out here.
Also: Pretty much agree with all the above stated stuff that it should not be the stated design goal to have people prolong play time by playing in unfun ways purely to earn the right to play the game as you would like to.
Needless to say I've never really been a big fan of the unlock culture in modern FPS's. Some of them I can tolerate if they're fast or otherwise don't make too much difference (Jury's still out on Brink, but so far it doesn't sound too bad if it's just a challenge unlock system instead of grinding). But some are just blatantly making you "work" until you get play the way you want to, and they go out of their way to make it a lengthy grind to get there.
Yeah, you don't have to unlock game modes on the PC version, sound pretty lame that you do on the consoles. On the other hand, you guys don't have rampant cheating, so I guess there's a trade-off.
Yeah, you don't have to unlock game modes on the PC version, sound pretty lame that you do on the consoles. On the other hand, you guys don't have rampant cheating, so I guess there's a trade-off.
I played twice yesterday and it was very clear, on my PC, that there were people who were cheating.
What is really sad about the 'emulate cod at all costs' mentality of these multi games. Is that they include these game matches that supposedly reward teamwork but you ultimately get more points for just killing people.
Seriously, k/d ratio is above all. If they really want to reward teamwork, completing objectives and saving people's bacon should be worth 10 times the amount of kills.
Nobody looks at a player and sees the .58 k/d ratio and thinks "well, he's a team player, he sacrifices himself to provide diversion, tries to guard objectives and helps his team win over getting personal kills". They just think they suck. Because there is really no in game reward for it.
What is really sad about the 'emulate cod at all costs' mentality of these multi games. Is that they include these game matches that supposedly reward teamwork but you ultimately get more points for just killing people.
Seriously, k/d ratio is above all. If they really want to reward teamwork, completing objectives and saving people's bacon should be worth 10 times the amount of kills.
Nobody looks at a player and sees the .58 k/d ratio and thinks "well, he's a team player, he sacrifices himself to provide diversion, tries to guard objectives and helps his team win over getting personal kills". They just think they suck. Because there is really no in game reward for it.
To be fair, killing the enemy instead of providing a distraction probably does more for your team. Also, benefit of guarding the objective is bonus points for killing carriers, etc. And if you're guarding a carrier, you can get kills by guarding him and if he dies you get to pick it up and get points for that. It's really not as bad as you make it out to be.
Also, on an unrelated note, I haven't really seen many (or any? idk) hackers playing Assault. I guess because of the one life thing it doesn't help them level up fast enough so they ignore it. Not to mention it's easily the best gamemode in the game.
So the "security patch", released earlier this week to get rid of the hackers, turned out to be nothing more than an entry in the config file. That essentially says "if you get X amount of headshots within XX amount of time, you will be banned".
Yes, that's right. The patch is a client side entry in the cfg file. The clownshoes on this mp is impressive. It's like the anti-hacking/cheating mentality of a title from 1994. Crytek should really be ashamed. Next time, don't even bother with mp.
So the "security patch", released earlier this week to get rid of the hackers, turned out to be nothing more than an entry in the config file. That essentially says "if you get X amount of headshots within XX amount of time, you will be banned".
Yes, that's right. The patch is a client side entry in the cfg file. The clownshoes on this mp is impressive. It's like the anti-hacking/cheating mentality of a title from 1994. Crytek should really be ashamed. Next time, don't even bother with mp.
I wish it was an april fool's joke, but sadly, it's not. It's just a joke in terms of 'so bad it's funny'.
So basically, if you're hacking, you can either change your own cfg limit to whatever magical number of headshots to some ridiculous number, or just change your script to aim for the chest.
Posts
Origin is the exact same as my Steam, in case you're needing a Support or Assault in BF3.
Thanks greedy video game companies for making me feel better about myself!
There's a config tool up on fileplanet that lets you completely customize graphics settings. Should have been included in the game, but the config thing is really really easy to get and use.
There's also of course the problem that multiplayer's completely b0rked at the moment, at least PC side.
XML hacks shouldn't even be possible these days, that's just stupid and there's no real reason they could give for how they allowed that.
Although more worrying is that I'm also hearing now that it doesn't actually check the game keys and pirated copies are being allowed to play and hack online with people who bought the game. Can anyone confirm this one?
EDIT: Now that I'm reading about this a bit more, the problems with the multiplayer actually make more sense. The multiplayer wasn't handled by the core Crytek team that did Crysis Wars. It was handled by Crytek UK, who were originally Free Radical Design. Their entire experience of making multiplayer games is for the consoles. They didn't design the game to really take into consideration any of even the most basic issues that would affect the PC version simply because those are things they've simply have no experience with and have never dealt with before. So the game was pushed out without addressing them. Coupled with the fact that they didn't really get any background on Crysis Wars in general, I guess it's not so much of a surprise anymore that the multiplayer's so messed up PC-side at the moment.
It's not a surprise, but it is pretty disappointing.
That feels very Richard Morgan.
I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of sweaty nano-sex though.
You haven't reached Supreme Commander General Captain Admiral General rank yet, so you must keep playing.
Thus, you must buy the game, and not rent it.
Several of Hargreaves' speeches are pretty well done.
The problem is that they're all within the context of Science Fiction Aliens Bullshit Magic Technology.
It's like +5 for the writing per dialogue/monologue, cumulative, -500 for the setting, persistent.
By the end, even if you rack up 300 for the greatness of the writing, you're still down 200.
"Death is an inconvenience now, we are all dead men walking"
I got fucking chills.
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Try uncloaking near a group of baddies you'll notice how uniform their reaction time is, it's like there's no intermediate levels between noticing you and not noticing you. One guy could see only your foot from 30 feet away and the other guy could be standing in front of you as you uncloak and they'll both start firing at you at the exact same time, speed of which depends on difficulty level with the reaction time on harder difficulties being hilariously fast.
And there's still a problem with enemies seeing your through walls. I'm not going to even mention the AI's inability to maneuver around without bumping into each other, because who honestly expected them to fix that?
Crysis 2? No.
CryEngine 3's Sandbox Editor is due "Summer"
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Ahh boo. Ahh well, hopefully the game will drop down to 50 by Summer...one can hope.
Not that that matters much.
Yes it was, there are videos floating around on youtube of levels people have made, including large scale islands like in Crysis 1.
I have not tried it myself, but also found out it won't work with the retail copy anyway.
Want it soo bad.
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Maybe along with the fucking DX11 patch sometime in the year 2000.
The unreal 3 editor is one of the most amazing editors I've ever played with, that 'Press a button and BAM' thing is so goddamn useful for level editing. . I've watched videos of the new Crytech engine and I just want want want.
Want want.
50 sounds possible. I'd go so far to say that it could get lower at some places, but that's just pure speculation. If you're not keen on multiplayer you can just buy it used, though in that case I'd advise you to spend 20 or less at most. With multiplayer it's more like 30.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
There isn't a post-human difficulty. The highest difficulty is Supersoldier.
ah, that's what I had on my screen but I'd seen a lot of people talk about post-human. Thanks.
Maybe the pc and consoles got different difficulties. It kind of makes sense.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Yeah, I want to touch upon this issue a bit more. I have a problem with it because it forces you to play in ways that aren't fun. That should never be the goal of game design, to force people to do things that are unnatural and unenjoyable. Yet that's what this leveling system does. I'll throw out some examples. What if I'm the kinda guy who wants to play on Classic mode (this isn't actually my opinion, I'm just using a hypothetical here)? What if I enjoy gameplay without armor mode or cloak mode, because I feel annoyed by having to shoot through the armor, or getting ambushed by cloaked guys all the time? I just maybe want to enjoy playing as a regular soldier with guns? Well, I've gotta wait until level 28. That means that for 27 levels, I'm grinding away on game modes that I just don't enjoy. Game modes that I might actually loathe! 27 levels is a long time to be doing something you might not care for. Why not give me the option to play Classic right from the getgo? How is that a bad thing? And ya know, once I do get to lvl 28, guess what? There're hardly any games to play, because only a very small number of people have also managed to grind up to lvl 28.
And this sorta unnatural masochism also extends to the weapons. For your sidearm, you can pick an AY69. But hey, what if I want to use a reflex sight on this AY69, because it'll be better for aiming? Well, then I've actually gotta use the AY69 and get kills with it. But who wants to actually do that in a game? Who wants to play a multiplayer game by using a sidearm, going up against competitors who are using their primary rifles and probably going to rape your face off? Does that sound like fun, running around with this weak backup weapon and trying to get kills against much better armed opponents? I don't think so, but that's what the mechanic forces you to do. You can only get that attachment unlock if you get kills with that particular weapon. If you just use your primary, like the SCAR, and manage to tally up 500 or 1000 kills with it, it's still not going to help you unlock any attachments for the AY69, you're still shit out of luck. You can get 5000 kills with the SCAR, but none of that excess experience ever gets diverted to other weapons, which sucks.
Now, MMOs do have this lvling system for secondary skills, like herbalism or cooking. And yeah, it can be kinda dull and boring to level up cooking, for example. It's not a ton of fun. But if you're left alone, you can get it done and it's just an amount of time you have to devote. Trying to kill other twitchy people in a hostile environment with a sidearm when they're gunning for you with much better weapons is far far more frustrating and painful, IMO.
Electronic composer for hire.
And because there's only one node at a time, that basically funnels everyone into it and it turns into this huge meatgrinder. When you have multiple nodes, like 3 or 5 in Conquest, everyone can spread out and it feels much less chaotic and more manageable.
Sounds a lot more like Headquarters mode from Call of Duty.
Personally, I think KotH really works best when there are maps designed specifically around it. Couldn't really say how that pans out here.
Also: Pretty much agree with all the above stated stuff that it should not be the stated design goal to have people prolong play time by playing in unfun ways purely to earn the right to play the game as you would like to.
Needless to say I've never really been a big fan of the unlock culture in modern FPS's. Some of them I can tolerate if they're fast or otherwise don't make too much difference (Jury's still out on Brink, but so far it doesn't sound too bad if it's just a challenge unlock system instead of grinding). But some are just blatantly making you "work" until you get play the way you want to, and they go out of their way to make it a lengthy grind to get there.
I played twice yesterday and it was very clear, on my PC, that there were people who were cheating.
Seriously, k/d ratio is above all. If they really want to reward teamwork, completing objectives and saving people's bacon should be worth 10 times the amount of kills.
Nobody looks at a player and sees the .58 k/d ratio and thinks "well, he's a team player, he sacrifices himself to provide diversion, tries to guard objectives and helps his team win over getting personal kills". They just think they suck. Because there is really no in game reward for it.
To be fair, killing the enemy instead of providing a distraction probably does more for your team. Also, benefit of guarding the objective is bonus points for killing carriers, etc. And if you're guarding a carrier, you can get kills by guarding him and if he dies you get to pick it up and get points for that. It's really not as bad as you make it out to be.
Also, on an unrelated note, I haven't really seen many (or any? idk) hackers playing Assault. I guess because of the one life thing it doesn't help them level up fast enough so they ignore it. Not to mention it's easily the best gamemode in the game.
Yes, that's right. The patch is a client side entry in the cfg file. The clownshoes on this mp is impressive. It's like the anti-hacking/cheating mentality of a title from 1994. Crytek should really be ashamed. Next time, don't even bother with mp.
Is that the april fools thing? Please?
So basically, if you're hacking, you can either change your own cfg limit to whatever magical number of headshots to some ridiculous number, or just change your script to aim for the chest.