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Class schedules (USA): Summer vs. Fall/Spring +breaks

DrukDruk Registered User regular
edited May 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
TLDR: Why are Summer classes scheduled so differently than Fall/Spring classes?

Ugh, finals. Going through 4 months of coursework, notes, etc., and hoping the parts you study the most are the most important parts of the final exam, if even there at all. On top of that, you're doing this for multiple topics at the same time, possibly with back-to-back exams with little/no break in between.

Is this really the best system for education, spreading out 3-5 hours a week per class over 4 months?

On the other hand, the Summer class schedule that I have coming up over the next couple months is quite a bit different. Anywhere from 6-10 hours a week just for one class which is completed in a single month. This seems a lot more focused, which I think would be a far more efficient way to learn.

So does anyone know why there exists such a big difference between the Summer schedule and the Fall/Spring schedule?
And is one type better for education than the other? Which would you prefer?

EDIT:
The discussion shifted a bit toward "Should we have Summer breaks? Y/N", which is fine by me and still somewhat relevant, made more so by me mentioning it here & in the title. :)

Druk on
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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Because professors (at least in science and engineering) can't spend 10 hours/week (plus office hours) in instruction all year and still get their research done in a timely fashion.

    Also with 10 hours/week in the classroom, you'll have to put in 3 weeks' worth of normal out-of-classroom time (studying, homework, etc) for every week of your summer term.

    a5ehren on
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    SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The usual thing that I find with physics/engineering/math courses is that the home work you get will take a low multiple of the time you spent in class. So three hours of class a week becomes 6 hours of homework a week, or 9 hours for that class. 3 more classes and that's 36 hours of class and homework a week, or just about as much as you'd spend on work in a standard working week. The closer you get to an exam, the more that work load increases as you attempt to add studying to it.

    If we make the same set of assumptions with classes that are running 10 hours a week for a month then you either limit yourself to one class a month or 4 classes in a 4 month period.

    So, they end up at the same place in those terms, but what if the second half of one of those classes relies on material you learn in the first half of another? Either you have a month where it goes unused in between, or you have a case where you finish learning it and start applying it nearly immediately (ok, that's an ideal case, but I think its close enough).

    Syrdon on
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    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Summer classes are brutal for students when they have any sort of significant coursework. When I teach an intro the C/Unix Systems Programming course in the summer, I'll end up assigning multiple projects in the same week. If the students aren't extremely focused and disciplined, it's very easy to slip and fall behind and never be able to catch up.

    Kakodaimonos on
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    OtarOtar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Scheduling breaks (christmas, spring, etc.) would become much more difficult using the "one course a month" model.

    Otar on
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    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Half semester ('Summer') classes only make more sense for courses that don't demand the proper 2 hours out of class for every 1 hour in class work. Often Summer courses are dumbed down versions to squeeze them into the shorter timeframe. My college has switched to the Summer being the same length as Fall/Spring courses for exactly that reason.

    enc0re on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    I think it is really idiotic the way schools do it, why not have quarters and include a normal summer? Anyways I am taking a math class over the summer and I was told to expect to spend 25 hours a week on that class alone. Not bad at all for me, having worked over 60 hour work weeks before this is like a vacation.

    Fizban140 on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    They should go to a 3/13 semester system. Each Semester is 13 weeks long, and you get a 2 week break between semesters. Professors who do have research type stuff to do should only be required to teach two semesters out of the three, or to just teach less classes each semester (say, no more than 3 sections? Maybe even only 2? I have no idea).

    You sit in class for five weeks, take midterms and a long weekend, sit in class another five weeks, and have two weeks for finals, then take two weeks off. Rinse and repeat, with a full break for essentially most of actual Summer (early-mid July to late September). You're off two weeks around Xmas/New Years, and two more weeks around Easter, with a half week off around Thanksgiving, Valentine's, and Labor Day.

    And you're able to take four classes every semester, which adds up to 36 hours a year, which isn't much more than most schools require you to take if you want that degree in 4 years, anyway.

    Tox on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't understand the need for a summer vacation, it makes no sense at all.

    Fizban140 on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I don't understand the need for a summer vacation, it makes no sense at all.

    It is needed because it exists, and is a cornerstone of young life in America. Many kids have summer activities they partake in during that break. It's likely a holdover from a time when it was just too hot to have the kids couped up trying to learn, or when they were needed to help on the farm, I have no idea. The problem now is that it exists, and radical changes like just eliminating it altogether just aren't going to happen overnight. That's why I suggest a 3 semester system, it narrows down the summer off-session, without eliminating it completely, and you can justify by saying that it helps realign the school year with the concept of a 4-year degree (although I think that system should be revisited, as well, and heartily endorse the community college/Associate's degree system).

    Tox on
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    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    They should go to a 3/13 semester system. Each Semester is 13 weeks long, and you get a 2 week break between semesters. Professors who do have research type stuff to do should only be required to teach two semesters out of the three, or to just teach less classes each semester (say, no more than 3 sections? Maybe even only 2? I have no idea).

    That's what I was talking about. We've switched to 3 semesters, each 15 weeks long. It's very sensible as there's no reason not to spread classes around the year equally. After all the buildings are there year round.

    enc0re on
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    BarcardiBarcardi All the Wizards Under A Rock: AfganistanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Summer should be for overseas study, make it half vacation half learning about a different culture/language/etc.

    Barcardi on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Honestly I think it would work be more popular if the summer break weren't completely slashed. If your 15 week semester includes all the break time before the next semester, that's still only a 7 week actual summer break. I don't think we're ready to just cut it out completely, especially since that'd be a little bit of a culture shock to high school grads who suddenly don't have a summer anymore. I think it needs to be a more gradual thing. In a generation or two, there shouldn't be any need for any significant summer break. Right now, though, I think it's just too radical a change to take on much popularity for a widespread implementation.

    Tox on
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    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The Summer - Fall break is now two weeks. If students want the long Summer off they are welcome to simply not take Summer courses.

    enc0re on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    See, I think they'd be better served adding a third full-time semester to the regular schedule. Instead of saying "oh and we have this optional extra semester but it's totally going to take away your entire summer 100%" which will get at best the same results as summer semesters get currently, they should alter the whole thing, and turn it into a standard 3-semester school year. Preferably at the high school level, as well, to help get students used to a longer school year and shorter summer break. That way, we can actually phase out the concept of summer break altogether. It's a silly concept, and should go away, but it needs to be a gradual thing.

    Tox on
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    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't understand. It is the regular schedule. For all we care, you could take off the Fall or Spring semester too.

    enc0re on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    enc0re wrote: »
    Half semester ('Summer') classes only make more sense for courses that don't demand the proper 2 hours out of class for every 1 hour in class work. Often Summer courses are dumbed down versions to squeeze them into the shorter timeframe. My college has switched to the Summer being the same length as Fall/Spring courses for exactly that reason.

    Summer courses at the community college here are two weeks shorter, but each class is about an hour longer so you usually end up spending more time in class. At the college I'm at now I'm in a program (called EDP) that means, for class meetings, I travel somewhere once a month for an 8 hour class. There's a ton of homework in-between, though, so it's not like there's a lack of work.

    As for the OP, condensed classes like you're talking about often aren't terribly great. I took what they call a Winterim this year (Consumer Behavior) condensed into a similar four 8 hour classes, but they were two weekends. The workload between classes was extremely tough and, while a lot of information gets absorbed, 8 hours is a long fucking time to sit in a classroom. Eventually your brain needs to rest and just doesn't absorb anything else.

    Shadowfire on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Okay, I'm not exactly sure the specific words I'm looking for here. You know how it's weird for someone who's a fulltime college student to just not go to school in the fall? But it's completely normal to not go to school in the summer? Yeah, I'm suggesting change that, so that it's weird to not go to school any of the three semesters.

    We need a culture shift, where "being a fulltime student" means being enrolled fulltime, every semester, not just spring and fall. To help facilitate this, I propose adjusting the schedule so that you have three semesters, and still have a small summer break as well. This makes the idea more palatable, because it's less weird. And I'm proposing making the same change at the high school level, to help it become a norm. Then, you can phase out that break by adding a week or two (over time) to the length of each semester. Maybe start by giving a one-week break after midterms, then add a week to the length of each semester, and so on, until you're actually in school all year long, and each academic year flows into the next.

    Am I making sense yet?

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yes, and I like it. I would much prefer to take the Fall off simply because my schedule gets crazy, and taking exams or doing homework in the leadup to Thanksgiving and Christmas is awful.

    Flexibility.. I like it.

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    JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    Okay, I'm not exactly sure the specific words I'm looking for here. You know how it's weird for someone who's a fulltime college student to just not go to school in the fall? But it's completely normal to not go to school in the summer? Yeah, I'm suggesting change that, so that it's weird to not go to school any of the three semesters.

    We need a culture shift, where "being a fulltime student" means being enrolled fulltime, every semester, not just spring and fall. To help facilitate this, I propose adjusting the schedule so that you have three semesters, and still have a small summer break as well. This makes the idea more palatable, because it's less weird. And I'm proposing making the same change at the high school level, to help it become a norm. Then, you can phase out that break by adding a week or two (over time) to the length of each semester. Maybe start by giving a one-week break after midterms, then add a week to the length of each semester, and so on, until you're actually in school all year long, and each academic year flows into the next.

    Am I making sense yet?
    You're making sense, but I'm not sure why you think the change is necessary. There are a ton of positive benefits to having a summer vacation that I don't think you're factoring in:
    1) The chance to spend some time with your family, especially if you're in school in another state
    2) The chance to have some time off. Working people can save up vacation. Students get what break time the school allows and it is incredibly difficult to get time off when school is in session.
    3) The chance to save up some money. It's difficult to spend a lot of time working if you're an actual full-time student (at least in the latter half of your college years).
    4) The chance to gain valuable work experience in internships. It's not possible to work full-time and go to school full-time and pay the proper amount of attention to both of them. And given that a good internship is possibly the most valuable thing you can have when looking for a job coming out of college, losing it would be a pretty big problem.

    Sure, lots of people just veg out all summer and do nothing in particular. But sometimes I wish I still had that option. The real world hits hard enough as it is, does it need to hit sooner too?

    JHunz on
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Having an optional semester provides a way for students who fail a class to catch up in the normal amount of time. It also allows students to work full time during the summer to get more money to remain in classes, again without disrupting the normal flow.

    And eliminating breaks all together is just crazy.

    Phoenix-D on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    Fizban140 on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    JHunz wrote: »
    You're making sense, but I'm not sure why you think the change is necessary. There are a ton of positive benefits to having a summer vacation that I don't think you're factoring in:
    1) The chance to spend some time with your family, especially if you're in school in another state
    2) The chance to have some time off. Working people can save up vacation. Students get what break time the school allows and it is incredibly difficult to get time off when school is in session.
    3) The chance to save up some money. It's difficult to spend a lot of time working if you're an actual full-time student (at least in the latter half of your college years).
    4) The chance to gain valuable work experience in internships. It's not possible to work full-time and go to school full-time and pay the proper amount of attention to both of them. And given that a good internship is possibly the most valuable thing you can have when looking for a job coming out of college, losing it would be a pretty big problem.

    Sure, lots of people just veg out all summer and do nothing in particular. But sometimes I wish I still had that option. The real world hits hard enough as it is, does it need to hit sooner too?

    1) You still have a summer break. Just a shorter one (for now, anyway)
    2) You get a two week break between fall/spring, and spring/summer, and a long weekend break after midterms.
    3) Part of the change is that the 12-hour semester becomes the norm again. You're taking 3 semesters of 12 hours, instead of 2 semesters of 15-16 and 1 of 3-8. As a result, you should have more time outside of class to spend doing things not immediately school related (like work part-time, or have a social life).
    4) This is legitimate, but I think a system could be designed whereby you get a semester here or there later in your college career to do an internship. In much the same fashion as many schools now allow high school students with exceptional grades to attend college during their senior year of high school.

    Also, I think the issue of the real world hitting is symptomatic of the summer break system. If you're already used to working year-round, the idea is easier to adjust to. Not to mention, studies show (I have no links readily available) that students forget more during their summer breaks, and have to spend time in the fall relearning things they'd forgotten over the previous 2-3 months, which is less time spent learning new things.

    Tox on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Regarding "4)" up there: If you're going to school fulltime, 12 hours, 3 semesters, that's 144 hours in 4 years. Most bachelors are only in the upper 120s, so you could probably just go part time your senior year and intern part time as well. This has the added benefit of being finagleable so that you can still get fulltime financial aid, meaning you actually have money while being an intern.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    College isn't normal work. If you try to hammer through a BS with no breaks what so ever, I can guarantee you the failure rate is going to go through the hoof.

    Phoenix-D on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    College isn't normal work. If you try to hammer through a BS with no breaks what so ever, I can guarantee you the failure rate is going to go through the hoof.

    Perhaps, but if we reinvigorate the community college / associate degree system, people will be more likely to go that route, first, then decide if they're ready to jump into a career, or go for a better degree. If nothing else, that can act as a stepping stone / ramp up to the level of the university programs, which won't have to be watered down as a result.

    Tox on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    We need a culture shift, where "being a fulltime student" means being enrolled fulltime, every semester, not just spring and fall.

    Why? If there's going to be X amount of "break time" over the course of the academic calendar, I don't really see the problem with putting it in a big block over the summer months. Not all education happens in the classroom.

    I spent my summers through high school and undergrad working full time. It was valuable experience that I probably wouldn't have been able to get if I'd been taking classes 15-20 hours a week during those months.

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    NewblarNewblar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's an interesting concept, there is certainly some value associated with the concept of a year round system for college/university. Better use of resources, better retention of material, a shorter time till graduation which would hopefully allow schools to keep students more up to date. As far as I know grad schools already do this but I think the summer semester is primarily used for placements/research projects.

    There are however some issues, top 3 that I can think of off the top of my head:

    1. Tuition per year would be increased significantly and many students already need to work full time or more during the summer to meet their financial needs. Granted I would hope that this would result in students not needing four years for a degree and through efficiencies on some fees actually end up reducing student's costs to go to school as a total price. In order to not cut out large swaths of the population from being able to go to school, financial assistance for students would need to be hugely overhauled (it kind of needs to be already). Even if overhauled it would still probably suck and going to school year round would provide less of a bumper for students to make up for its short falls.

    2. Student mental health would probably become a larger issue than it already is. Students break, some very badly, and waiting for the summer and getting a long time to refresh is all that gets a fair number of them through their degrees. A couple weeks off between semesters probably isn't going to cut it for many, especially the ones who are coming from somewhere that isn't driving distance.

    3. You need alot more qualified professors and I'm not sure where they are going to come from. Most I've met that do research already teach the max number of sections they can without compromising their research (they still usually complain about how little time they have). At the very least to accomplish this there would have to be something done to get alot more people into grad schools and then something to get them to go on to do PhDs.

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is that while I don't think it would be impossible to switch to a 3 semester system, its actually a very complex issue that will require huge amounts of planning and research on how to address some issues that schools themselves might not even have the ability to influence.

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    OtarOtar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    I'm not sure about the cost of tuition but I pay for a large portion of mine up in Canada via the money I save during the summer while working. It helps everyone to keep students out of debt, no?

    Edit: Also I'm not really sure what the 'Its called life' bit is about, I work two jobs and volunteer in the summer so I never really have what would strictly be called a break besides christmas.

    Otar on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    Otar wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    I'm not sure about the cost of tuition but I pay for a large portion of mine up in Canada via the money I save during the summer while working. It helps everyone to keep students out of debt, no?

    I am just saying that have an equal amount of school over the whole year, just less time off in the summer. Can you work during the rest of the year or are the hours too difficult to match to a school schedule?

    Fizban140 on
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    OtarOtar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Otar wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    Why is eliminating breaks crazy? Its called life, you don't get summers, a couple weeks in winter and spring and a break every 3 months off. I don't get the need to "catch up in the normal amount of time" all classes are taught year round aren't they?

    I'm not sure about the cost of tuition but I pay for a large portion of mine up in Canada via the money I save during the summer while working. It helps everyone to keep students out of debt, no?

    I am just saying that have an equal amount of school over the whole year, just less time off in the summer. Can you work during the rest of the year or are the hours too difficult to match to a school schedule?

    While I'm sure the well connected of us could but it makes people in general look much more unemployable when you're trying to find work for a few weeks here and a few weeks there instead of one big block of time.

    Otar on
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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Anecdotally speaking: I've attended school non-stop for 5/6 years now, starting middle school, and I think it would be crazy to eliminate breaks all together. I've been with a small group of AP/honors courses kids from the start of high school and every couple of months folks just get crazy. I was always too boring to become more than merely aggravated and listless but I think the breaks were pretty necessary for many of my classmates.

    Most interesting use of the summer break I can think of that was very common at my school was leaving the country to visit family, staying there for weeks.

    Whether or not they had any fun depends on how poor the country they were visiting was.

    Muse Among Men on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    Anecdotally speaking: I've attended school non-stop for 5/6 years now, starting middle school, and I think it would be crazy to eliminate breaks all together. I've been with a small group of AP/honors courses kids from the start of high school and every couple of months folks just get crazy. I was always too boring to become more than merely aggravated and listless but I think the breaks were pretty necessary for many of my classmates.

    Most interesting use of the summer break I can think of that was very common at my school was leaving the country to visit family, staying there for weeks.

    Whether or not they had any fun depends on how poor the country they were visiting was.

    I don't understand why people are getting stressed out I guess. Having worked 90 hour work weeks before, yeah it sucks but you get used to it.

    Fizban140 on
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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I can't really understand that sentiment unless you really breezed through your classes.

    It was a lot of drudging through unsatisfying and/or difficult classes to impress adcoms.

    Muse Among Men on
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    Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    As a student right now I think this change would be terrible. As is I rarely get to see my family and the only time I get any significant time with them is Summer and Winter Break. I also work full time over summer to have some sort of money when school is in session if it changed to the above system I wouldn't have this.

    Also summer really is one of the few things that makes me able to rough through finals. I am in finals week now and all I have had is paper after paper after paper and I haven't even begun studying for my finals yet. I take an hour or two break everyday outside of that all I am doing is research or writing. It's stressful and the only way I'm getting through it is looking at the calender marked the 17th and knowing that when that rolls around I get a break from school a week off and then begin work that is significantly less stressful.

    Ziac45 on
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    Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    I guess being in the military and then going to college has changed my view on things, I really don't consider that stressfull. I guess people just coming out of high school might.

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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Totally different world, so that makes sense.

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    Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I guess being in the military and then going to college has changed my view on things, I really don't consider that stressfull. I guess people just coming out of high school might.

    It's not so much stressful because of the amount of work that has to be done. It's stressful because it is mentally exhausting and so much of the final grade hangs on these last few weeks. I can work my job every day and work another job on the side without getting stressed out. But when you know your final grade depends on you getting the research and proving your points strongly it gets a bit rough.

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    Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    And then the inevitable wash of kids that didn't get into the dream school they'd been working toward.

    A case where I don't feel bad about my low expectations. I wasn't crushed! Felt bad for some peers though :/

    Muse Among Men on
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    HamurabiHamurabi MiamiRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Tox wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I don't understand the need for a summer vacation, it makes no sense at all.

    It is needed because it exists, and is a cornerstone of young life in America. Many kids have summer activities they partake in during that break. It's likely a holdover from a time when it was just too hot to have the kids couped up trying to learn, or when they were needed to help on the farm, I have no idea. The problem now is that it exists, and radical changes like just eliminating it altogether just aren't going to happen overnight. That's why I suggest a 3 semester system, it narrows down the summer off-session, without eliminating it completely, and you can justify by saying that it helps realign the school year with the concept of a 4-year degree (although I think that system should be revisited, as well, and heartily endorse the community college/Associate's degree system).

    We need to start thinking about eliminating summer in K-12. I don't remember about Europe specifically, but iirc the rest of the world basically goes to school year-round.

    Hamurabi on
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    NumiNumi Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I don't understand the need for a summer vacation, it makes no sense at all.

    It is needed because it exists, and is a cornerstone of young life in America. Many kids have summer activities they partake in during that break. It's likely a holdover from a time when it was just too hot to have the kids couped up trying to learn, or when they were needed to help on the farm, I have no idea. The problem now is that it exists, and radical changes like just eliminating it altogether just aren't going to happen overnight. That's why I suggest a 3 semester system, it narrows down the summer off-session, without eliminating it completely, and you can justify by saying that it helps realign the school year with the concept of a 4-year degree (although I think that system should be revisited, as well, and heartily endorse the community college/Associate's degree system).

    We need to start thinking about eliminating summer in K-12. I don't remember about Europe specifically, but iirc the rest of the world basically goes to school year-round.

    Are you sure because at a glance it seems like most of the world uses much the same system with a fairly long summer vacation. That being said I am personally on board with the idea of going to three terms a year instead of two.

    Numi on
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