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Join the military?
KurnDerak
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm currently 24, living at home with my parents, jobless and slowly making my way through college. I think I've finally come to the point where I need to do a whole lot of growing up and try to make it out on my own. I'd thought about the military before but never seriously considered it before now. I have absolutely no idea what branch I would attempt to join.
I currently am up to an Associate of the Arts as far as education goes. My job history is non-existent.
I've had sleep/insomnia issues for years now which I think would be the biggest issue, as I currently have no sleep schedule and simply sleep whenever I get tired enough to. This is something that needs to be addressed either way, and having people force me into a schedule might just be what I need. I'm overweight and slowly working on getting into shape. Not a big issue, but mentioning it. I've had issues with depression before, was on a prescription for it around 9 years ago I think which only lasted several months. I don't believe I have any medical conditions that would prohibit me from joining, I've never required glasses.
Joining would quite obviously be a serious culture shock for me. When not going to school, I'm generally either sitting on the computer in my room or in front of the TV.
What I think I would want to get out of it is, as previously stated, something that will help me become and feel like a productive member of society and an adult. What I would like to do is something that would be able to either help me with or prepare for what I would like to do for the rest of my life, which is something zoological related. I have no idea what it would be, but the study of and working with animals is something I would really like to do. As far as I can tell this mostly would limit me to veterinary which from what I could find has higher requirements than I can currently meet.
Edit: Should have finished my search before posting. There is an animal care specialist position in the army, not sure about other branches.
I've taken computer networking courses and can get my way around the basics of it, and if need be I think I would be able to work my way up to doing something along the lines of that. It just feels like going with that would be taking me in the wrong direction for what I would like to do afterwards.
There is an army recruiter here in town, and a few other recruiters for other branches in neighboring cities which I am thinking about stopping by sometime later this week.
I currently am up to an Associate of the Arts as far as education goes. My job history is non-existent.
I've had sleep/insomnia issues for years now which I think would be the biggest issue, as I currently have no sleep schedule and simply sleep whenever I get tired enough to. This is something that needs to be addressed either way, and having people force me into a schedule might just be what I need. I'm overweight and slowly working on getting into shape. Not a big issue, but mentioning it. I've had issues with depression before, was on a prescription for it around 9 years ago I think which only lasted several months. I don't believe I have any medical conditions that would prohibit me from joining, I've never required glasses.
Joining would quite obviously be a serious culture shock for me. When not going to school, I'm generally either sitting on the computer in my room or in front of the TV.
What I think I would want to get out of it is, as previously stated, something that will help me become and feel like a productive member of society and an adult. What I would like to do is something that would be able to either help me with or prepare for what I would like to do for the rest of my life, which is something zoological related. I have no idea what it would be, but the study of and working with animals is something I would really like to do. As far as I can tell this mostly would limit me to veterinary which from what I could find has higher requirements than I can currently meet.
Edit: Should have finished my search before posting. There is an animal care specialist position in the army, not sure about other branches.
I've taken computer networking courses and can get my way around the basics of it, and if need be I think I would be able to work my way up to doing something along the lines of that. It just feels like going with that would be taking me in the wrong direction for what I would like to do afterwards.
There is an army recruiter here in town, and a few other recruiters for other branches in neighboring cities which I am thinking about stopping by sometime later this week.
KurnDerak on
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I was in your spot a few years back, though I hit the point you are now a few years younger. I was 18 and had just failed my first semester of college before I realized that I needed to do something else. I turned to the military like you did, because I wanted to be a contributing member of society but I didn't have job qualifications to speak of, and I even had less education than you do. So when the Marine Corps recruiter called my house (they have records of all the young men in the area that have recently graduated high school), I was willing to go talk to him. He gave me the talk about adventure and brotherhood and all that crap, I told him about my nervousness about getting shot at, he lied and gave me a bullshit figure about my chances of deploying (He told me 50%, where it's actually closer to 95% in the Marine Corps if you stay in for a regular contract term and are able-bodied), I told him I was considering the Air Force, the Air Force recruiter was a piece of shit with a child pornographer-worthy molestache, so I signed the papers and went to Parris Island three months later. He helped me drop a few extra pounds and get used to PT before I went, I hated boot camp (of course), but I had a blast at MCT and then at school before getting assigned to a communications squadron on the east coast.
Went to Iraq for a year, dealt with the paranoia, separation, and feelings of isolation, came back, went to counseling, finished out my contract in March, and here I am today.
Honestly, I would do it all over again (and still hate boot camp just as much).
tl;dr: The military is a good choice, and so can you!
Your choice of branch is all up to you, and even to some degree what job you get. They are limited to their needs, though, so you can't always just pick the job you want, but odds are you can find something close to it.
If you're serious about joining, whatever branch recruiter you choose will arm you with whatever information you need to know. Just be sure to process what they tell you carefully, because it's their job to sign people up, above all else. They will tell you half truths here and there, but we can help you pick through it. If you have questions, ask here or in the military thread.
Research the shit out of jobs before you make a list of what you are willing to do, and read the fine print. I'm sure there's other stuff, but that's all I've got right now, I'm going to play some more Dragon Age II.
As far as the overweight part goes, I'm 6' and 235 lbs. I've lost about 13 over the last month just walking and could most likely lose more than that if I put in more effort before mid July.
Also there really isn't much of a guarantee for most jobs, I know a few people in the army who got stuck with something else.
I did BCT(basic training) at Ft. Sill, OK. We had a guy in our platoon from the town right outside Ft. Sill, born and raised. He joined the Army to get away from the town, to travel and see other places and at the end of BCT and AIT, his first duty orders where: Ft. Sill, OK.
Also, say you get into Animal care for the Army, that doesn't necessarily mean that's what they will deploy you to war as. The Army will train you into whatever profession they will need for that deployment, for example: I was field artillery and they deployed us twice as either MP's or Infantry. They took an NBC unit that was attached to our unit and made them all MP's.
I feel, before you go see the recruiters, have a list of questions available from everything to duty locations, job details, all the benefits you can get, promotion potential, etc... Then based on which branch provides you the best answer to your liking, do a bit more research and if you feel you can handle the unexpected and the mundane, for 8 years (regardless what they tell you, 8 years is the magic number), then sign up.
It will definitely change something in your life.
I fly helicopters for the navy if you have any aviation specific questions hit me up. The military is like any other job you get out of it what you put into it. Expecting it to change your personality majorly is not very realistic. You should watch stripes the bill murray movie to see why joining the military because your a slouch is a bad idea.
Everyone should watch Stripes.
Also, although dated, it's still pretty close to the general attitude I've encountered while in the Army. Those who know how to manipulate the system get the farthest ahead.
You're not going to get anywhere asking about duty locations though, the recruiter will tell you anything, and to be fair, they don't know where you will end up. If that was the intent of 'duty locations"...
Asking about benefits is definitely worth asking about.
It's a good experience
I'm not expecting the military to change my personality, I fully expect that I would come out mostly the same person as I went in. I just need a serious push in my life to get me going forward, and as far as I can tell the military will most certainly give me a serious push.
I've looked at the ASVAB stuff and so far I think I should be able to do pretty well on it. Well, everything but wordly knowledge which on the short practice test I took was just "define this word" with words I'd never heard of before.
As far as locations go, I'm not horribly picky. I mean I'd like some place about the same climate I live, but I sort of expect to just be sent somewhere random and go there for training and beyond. I'd like to be able to travel and see the world, but that I see as more of a hopeful benefit and not why I would be joining. I would like to get out of this town for awhile, which I think is mostly guaranteed as the closest military bases to my knowledge are just over 100 miles away (living in loveland, CO, they are in Colorado Springs, CO).
Thank you all for the help so far. I'm still going through a lot of "so you want to join the military" basic stuff, so I will probably start PMing some questions once I really start looking into each of the branches.
I think that is true with everything, but yeah in the air force that was so fucking true.
There are a handful of those, and you get the GI bill, so it can help. Some MOSes easily translate to huge paychecks in the private sector, FWIW.
It can help. One of the best damn NCOs I know went to basic training shortly after telling a judge why he shouldn't send him to some sort of youth detention. He's basically a rock star at everything now.
There are ways to play around with this a bit, but I come from Maine originally, and have been to SC, CA, TX, and GA in that order. That's 3/4 shitty hot weather conditions, and during the hottest parts of the year on top of it. That said, you can adapt. Once you get acclimatized, it isn't so bad. Quality varies greatly, but the barracks I've been in have consistently had working AC (knock on wood).
That being said, my cousin joined with similar ideas of straitening his life out and building his future. He didn't make it back. I'm not saying don't join, I'm just saying consider that people are getting killed out there.
"Died a soldier" has a far nicer ring to it than "Had an 85 Night Elf Hunter".
One thing that has popped up a few times now that has me rather concerned though is my history of counseling/medication for depression. It was one prescription of prozac I think, I've got the same family doctor still so getting records on that shouldn't be a problem. I think I could get a hold of the therapist I went to, but I wouldn't know for sure at all right now.
The main problem right now is that I am currently seeing a counselor again, have had 2 sessions, about a very recent episode of depression as well as general getting my life in order type things. He had suggested military as a way to get out on my own and something that would most certainly help me grow up to feel like an adult.
From what I've seen this would be something that would require a waiver and a letter from my current counselor stating I would be capable of serving (assuming I am, I mean I feel like I am in that regard at least). However, is this something that would end up delaying my ability to join above going through a waiver process?
I've now gone through the "10 steps to joining the military" on military.com, and have come to the conclusion that I'm mixed between Army and Navy, leaning more toward Army. I will try and talk to the recruiters for each next week as this week was a bit more busy than I had thought it would be, and get a good list of questions to take with me.
You will be asked by your recruiter to disclose certain aspects of your history at an early point in the process. Part of enlisting will be a broad assessment of your medical fitness. Mental heath also plays a role in determining if you can hold the necessary security clearance required for many positions.
Your recruiter may ask early on to see if there is anything that would be a significant issue that would not be easily dismissed or waived before it is officially assessed by doctors and included in your medical file as a means to hopefully smooth out the process and help advise you of your options. In the Army, a previous mood disorder like depression is not disqualifying, but it must be well behind you and cannot have required 6 months or more of care from a medical professional. If after a doctor's assessment that appears to not be the case, you'd need a waiver.
Waivers are finicky things. They are by no means guaranteed. Obviously if you need one, the history of your issue will come into play, but nobody here will be able to tell you how long it will take and whether it will eventually come through. Ultimately, waivers are just as dependent on the force requirements of the branch you're trying to join as anything else - if they need more people, they have more need to take you as you are. I've generally heard that the Army approves the greatest percentage of waivers, and the Air Force the least.
Keep in mind that it's probably in everyone's best interest to be up front about things to your recruiter. Also keep in mind that there is no magic way for them to pull up your medical history. They are almost entirely dependent on you to be forthright and honest in dealing with them (and you should be), but that does not mean you need to volunteer information if they don't strictly ask about it.
Your recruiters will be able to answer most of these questions better than us, though. That's what they're there for, so go ahead and utilize them as a resource. Good luck!
Is there a use in bringing medical records regarding depression with me to the recruiter on the chances it comes up? I am wondering if I should push back seeing a recruiter until I get another session in with my counselor, but that will be about two weeks from now and I don't want to start pushing things back/putting them off at all.
I wouldn't worry about bringing your medical records with you right away. I would say on your very first meeting, go in with a list of questions - there were some good ones mentioned. Get answers, don't sign anything, be honest with your answers for them, don't try and lie about anything, and come back to us to verify the answers. The recruiter's job is to sign you up. Our job as impartial parties is to ensure that you get good advice, and make the best decision to suit your needs. We come from a variety of backgrounds, civilian, military, enlisted, officers, etc., and we'll give you straight answers.
To address some of the concerns presented so far - No, the military won't change who you are. Sure, you'll learn new shit and you'll gain some perspective, and you might change your demeanor a little, but you're not going to become a zombie or any of that other bullshit people try and claim. You'll be who you already are, but arguably better and doing something that matters (though, admittedly that is hard to perceive at times).
Yes, it can be dangerous. But not every job will involve you going out and patrolling warzones in a MRAP or a humvee huntin' down some turrurists. If you want to avoid the majority of the danger, join the Navy or the Air Force, and avoid joining the MP's (they will often pull guard duties when deployed).
No, psychological problems won't bar you from joining. If you're still seeing a counselor, have them evaluate you and share their opinion on what you should do, but don't let it stop you. The military has been very pro-mental-health in the past few years, and there are a ton of resources available for military members with issues. I saw a counseler over several months while on active duty, and I'm still eligible to reenlist if I choose.
I still recommend you give this a shot, if you're serious about it. It can be a great experience. Personally, it's the best choice I ever made in my life. I was trained in the job I wanted to do, I gained a few years of experience, I made friends that I will keep for the rest of my life, I saw new things, and it set me up for a great job once I left, even though I don't have a single college credit to my name. You can do great things in the military, if you choose to join.
"Hank_Scorpio" already supplied the answer I was going to give so I won't repeat.
I was living at home at 24 with not much in the way of work experience too. And I was really depressed and I fucked my health up really bad even to this day because I stopped even basic self-care. I flunked out of a scam graduate program as well and owed a fortune as a result.
I briefly considered joining the military but I'm glad I didn't. No offence to anybody who's in the military, but "Four years in the military" on your resume isn't going to impress too many people. For jobs like the police and whatever...MAYBE. But even then, you certainly don't need military experience to get a job as a police officer. It's basically four years wasted. Plus, as already pointed out, people get killed, people get maimed and people develop psychological problems.
I know some guys who were in the military. We're all in our early to mid-30s by now. They have nothing to show for it. They're doing the same crap jobs that they could have done without joining the military.
I don't think you're going to get anywhere closer to zoology or whatever by joining the army. Recruiters might say otherwise, but as others in this very thread have noted, they'll say anything to get you to sign up.
So yeah, I don't even really see a problem with your situation. Keep going to university. Who cares if you live at home? 24 isn't that old. I moved back home when I was 24 or so and lived there until I was 27. Not ideal but plenty of people are in the same situation. And when you get some money together, you can move out. You can get a job with animals or whatever. It's not a problem. Maybe see somebody about the depression, but don't freak out about your situation. I know you're desperate and anxious but joining the military strikes me as the wrong move.
I didn't say my military experience was terrible. I said that recruiters are liars. If you're going to discount my advice, at least do it properly.
Incorrect. It exhibits discipline, maturity, dedication, hell even loyalty and patriotism. The only reason I got my job at this NATO office is because of my military experience, and the strength of my character as a result. I work at a desk doing important shit, thanks to the US Marine Corps.
And we all know college students never turn out like this.
/Oprah
Depends how broadly you draw that brush stroke. But, in any case, my MOS, in addition to having a variety of military industrial complex jobs, has true blue civilian jobs that pay $100K+. Not the reason I chose it, but if you are good at some military jobs, they are a god damn gold mine after the fact.
That said, to post information against: If you don't have a large tolerance for suck, don't join the military. I really enjoy it, but you have to have a good tolerance for shit like, "Wake up early on Sunday to put up with hours and hours of bullshit that isn't really important in the first place."
It seems to me like you're joining not because you really want to fight for your country, but because you feel like you have to live up to "social expectations" of some kind. You say things like:
but you won't give a shit about what people think of you once you're dead because you'll be dead. It seems like you'll think service will bring you respectability; you see the army as some means to an end, but you should consider it to be an end of itself (after all, that could be the last job you ever hold).
It's not worth putting your life and health at risk unless you really want to do this.
Right now, you're feeling depressed about your situation, but there are ways to right the ship without doing something drastic. There are plenty of people who go to school who are even older than you. I know a guy who's something like 35 and from what I know of him, he's never really settled in a good job, and he went back for a degree in physics. He's now thinking of doing a PhD, and it will likely open up some nice jobs for him in the future. So you've still got time.
Is there some sort of formative program for people who want to work with animals in the states? Our education system in Québec is a bit different, but we have "colleges" you can go to where you can obtain a degree in animal care after three years of training. It's between high school and university in terms of difficulty. It's a very hands-on program that is a cross between professional training and the last year of high school/first year of university for Americans.
You probably won't find a program exactly like that in the States, but you may find something similar. In fact, a quick google search shows it seems there are vocational schools and colleges which offer this. You should really consider this option. You would be learning skills that will be directly applicable to the job you ultimately want to do, and you would be doing this without risking your life.
In the end, no one will care in a few years, how you managed to right your life. And people won't necessarily be impressed by a military background. Don't enlist unless it's something you really want to do, not something you have to do because society expects something of you at your age. 24 is still young, you've got time.
As far as danger goes: yes, it can get dangerous. You are also more likely to die or be seriously injured in an accident here in America than you are in combat in the military. I'm not attempting to trivialize those with friends or family injured or lost, but some perspective is helpful. You also have some ability to mitigate the danger when you select your branch and job (MOS).
And as to whether anybody cares about military experience: in the private sector, it'll depend largely on what you're trying to do. However, keep in mind that for nearly all federal government positions, and many state positions, employers are required by law to consider those with previous military service before those without, or provide some other advantage in the hiring process. That is before you even consider the actual work experience you received.
I'm personally of the opinion that as long as you are doing something you personally consider worthwhile, it's hard to say that you are wasting your life. Maybe four years in the military doesn't carry much weight with some people, just as four years getting an undergraduate degree might not mean much to others (although I would still recommend getting one if you can at some point). People are changing their careers several times throughout their lives now. Having your shit sorted in your 20s is becoming more and more rare.
I feel i've done everything I wanted in it and now i'm ready for something else in my life. It's a great experience, i've met a ton of people and have quite a few contacts.
I may not be so lucky like godmode to get a job with no higher education, but I met my soon to be wife thanks to the military, I plan on going to school and finish off my degree finally and hopefully with all the contacts I made working around the world in various Embassies maybe ill get a decent job too.
The military has its ups and its downs. I think overall if you are serious in doing it, it's not something you would regret doing.
Steam
I couldn't disagree more. Doing something for 4 years that doesn't contribute directly to your potential long term career doesn't make it a waste of time Would spending 4 years volunteering around the world to help out people be a waste of time? What about working at a local charity for a few years for low pay? There are a lot of things a person can do that doesn't not contribute directly to their long term career goals that have many other benefits.
If you only focus on what is your long term career goal you can miss out on a lot of interesting life experiences.
In the AF, at the 3 year mark(2 1/2 if you do really good work) you make rank and you are sent to Airman Leadership School. A 6 week course on what you need to lead because at this point (after ALS) you are able to supervise other people. Being in a supervisory position is good for your resume.
How about vehicle training(All Terrain forklifts, bus, flatbed) first aid training(CPR cert etc, etc) problem solving courses, I mean the amount of training that the military pays for, that you can take with you, is invaluable. They tell you, before you retire/seperate to try and get in as much training as you can because when a company is looking at you and they see you have already had the training that they would otherwise have to pay for you to get, well, how does that not factor into a decision to hire?
I'm thinking the person who said 4 years of military service on your resume isn't going to impress too many people isn't using their brain or is just ignorant to what goes on in the military. There is a metric shit ton of stuff that you get out of 4 years of military service besides just saying "I served 4 years in the military".
Quite. I went to dinner recently with several of my father's work colleagues (all management types). He was the only one who hadn't spent considerably time in the armed forces.
What was your job? Honestly I don't think I learned much from the military, I already knew CPR and those classes are absolute shit. Literally they teach you nothing, ALS was mostly a joke from everyone I knew who went to it. I was in four and a half years and never went, my base didn't have one and I was getting out so they never sent me. I loaded bombs, pretty much all I learned to do was how to load bombs and function in a community that loads bombs.
Didn't help me at all so far. I know that if things are stuck and you shake it really hard then they sometimes become unstuck. Literally about all I learned from the military.
It really depends on your job.
"ALS was mostly a joke from everyone I knew who went to it."
This is your contribution?
I am quite aware that non-veterinary zoology is a career choice that the military really isn't suited for. After even just a very brief google search I was well aware that trying to get a military position that would work wonders for specifically that was highly unrealistic at best. For just zoology my best bet would most likely be to stay at home and go to Colorado State University, which is a very good school for zoology as it also has an amazing veterinary program. I am currently somewhere between putting school on hold and either finding someway to finish it while I serve (not realistic) or finishing after, or staying in long enough to get my Bachelor's and then moving on with the goal of being an officer. I am feeling somewhat impatient and wanting to be at the point where I would be joining by the end of the summer, but long term I think waiting for an officer position might be a better option.
I've had problems before with just drifting rather aimlessly through college (spent 5 years at a 2 year college) so being able to set up, work through and actualize a plan for myself like this is an absolutely amazing feeling. I'm exercising more, I'm simply wanting to eat healthier without forcing myself to, I'm gaining a lot of confidence about myself by doing all of this. Being able to eventually reach my goals while being part of something that helps improve and protect the lives of others is very big incentive to me. Joining the military itself is a big hurdle that when jumped means "you are one hell of a person for making it this far".
I'm not doing this for pressure of how I want to be viewed by others. I said that as far more of a how I would want to look back on my life than how I would want others to view my life. Almost regardless of what I do, how I lived my life won't greatly affect or matter to most other people. You could replace "died a soldier" to "owned a zoo", "landed on the moon", "made a bear submit to an ankle lock", the point is I will have liked to have made goals and done what I could to achieve them.
While I am far leaning more towards joining, I am still in the undecided phase. So even if I don't join, I would still like to feel proud of myself for being able to make myself get to the point where I could have joined.
Yeah, I am saying don't join the military to learn things. If you want to learn then go to college.
The military hired you to work, not have some sort of eye opening life changing experience.
All those "classes" where you learn things were after my 12 hour shifts cutting out of my sleep time, so no I didn't learn anything in those and they were mostly useless anyways.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Sure, there's procedural bullshit to sit through, but I also got to go to good classes. The military paid for my CCNA, CompTIA Network+, and Security+ certificates.
Sounds like you lucked out with your job which is something I really want to stress is often out of your control.