I get RPing, that's fine. I don't know what Battle Fatigue is but the words just raise a giant Red Flag of Suck in my brain. The way the question was asked sounded like an RPer wanting a system to force everyone, RP or not, to hang out in certain places. Sounds un-fun.
After a while Battle Fatigue became moot anyway since you'd want to get buffed by dancers and musicians before heading out into combat or pvp - which simultaneously got rid of Battle Fatigue.
I can understand where some folks are coming from wanting a cantina-dynamic in TOR. And it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with RP. It was more about there being a time and place to socialize with folks on the server and get to know each other - since you had some downtime and almost everybody on the server hung out at one of three or four cantinas.
Is forcing folks into the cantinas the right answer? probably not. but as an SWG vet i do miss the social aspect that came with it that is largely lost in MMOs today. really the only equivalent I can think of was in Warhammer - cramped into a keep waiting for the other side to finish capping BOs and attack.
So, a question to fill our time: What will ToR need to provide to keep you paying your subscription fees?
Fun.
We tend to focus a lot on the mechanics of the design, but really it just comes down to whether you have fun or not with the game.
And what constitutes "fun" in a game probably varies a little in all of us.
Friends are also key. If I can't establish a small group of reliable friends who enjoy the game in similar ways to me, I tend to abandon the game quickly.
So for me, if they tag a server (or more) as an RP server, if I find a rich, creative RP community, if I get wrapped into a few story lines with them, I'll be sold for a long time.
I hope this gets asked in the next Q&A but would can the phased group content be accomplished with only one other player as long as you both bring your companions? It is a not a flashpoint so I am not sure if the difficulty is as high.
they mentioned during the Alderaan walkthrough that content in instanced areas scales to the group - depending on the number of players and companions in the group (not sure if it'll also scale by level).
so you could do it yourself pretty easily, or grab some friends and have it feel a lot more epic.
Q. As we know, each class has an equivalent on the other faction, Bounty Hunter -Trooper, Smuggler Imperial Agent and so on. How different are they from each other? Do they basically have the same abilities just with different names, or are they truly distinct from each other?
A. They all play very differently, with different abilities, The idea that they are “mirror classes” is a fallacy.
I'm actually a bit concerned about the differences. I mean, now classes have to be balanced not only against your side's other classes in terms of tank/dps/healer efficacy, but now also against the other side.
I hope this doesn't turn into a pally/shammy "other side is better than us" favoritism issue.
As I've expressed before, I prefer the variety in classes between each side. Someone earlier trying to use the logic that a Trooper or a Bounty Hunter would play in any way similar just gave me a big face.
I think balance is a bit of an illusion really. In the end, these systems can always be optimized and players will always cry "foul" when they lose in PvP regardless of the equity or lack of it. Again I bring up World of Tanks (a game I've been grinding a lot lately), people are blaming the inequity of the random match maker and the "unbalanced" nature of the pay-tanks. When in fact, both complaints are overblown.
So, given that I think balance (or lack of it) is bit of an illusion, I'd rather have the variety.
ChaosRed on
0
ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
One thing that annoyed me about that Q&A ... whenever the response was "I don't know, I haven't played Republic classes" my teeth involuntarily started to grind.
Yes, I understand that he didn't play the classes. And yes, I understand that the classes are not perfect mirrors.
But I think it would have been more useful/informative to have him at least say "they don't line up exactly, but as an analogy, I can answer your question about the smuggler with my experience as an IA."
Sorry, I just don't believe that the opposing classes are going to be so WILDLY different that the experience of playing one doesn't translate at least a small amount over to playing the other.
Or you could be wrong and they just aren't alike enough to reliably give any kind of good information. Not to mention a lot of the stuff being asked is VERY class specific.
You are expecting WAY too much from this dude. He's a Beta tester. He's also breaking the NDA. Not that it's a huge deal, but if bioware finds out, he's screwed from the beta. I'm not sure I'd break the nda just to answer random people's questions, who couldn't care less what happens to my acct.
Now, I'm just guessing, but basically what happened is this guy emails beta cake, says , dude I got in, I'll answer questions, then gets sent a huge list of questions in an email, then just types the answers out.
The dude has been focusing on Empire gameplay. when he comes accross an question about the republic, he just says I don't know.
I think balance is a bit of an illusion really. In the end, these systems can always be optimized and players will always cry "foul" when they lose in PvP regardless of the equity or lack of it. Again I bring up World of Tanks (a game I've been grinding a lot lately), people are blaming the inequity of the random match maker and the "unbalanced" nature of the pay-tanks. When in fact, both complaints are overblown.
So, given that I think balance (or lack of it) is bit of an illusion, I'd rather have the variety.
I think balance based on player whine is bullshit, but there's definitely something to be said for statistical measurements of balance. If 80% of all battlegrounds are won by the Empire - not as in some random guy on the forums claimed it, but as in as-the-makers-of-a-proper-MMO-we-track-this-statistic fact - this is Bad, this will impact how Fun PvP is, and calling it an illusion is sort of an insult to the intelligence of your players. And while PvP is where it's likely to be most noticeable, you've got potential for some pretty huge issues in PvE as well; Taking down a turret is super easy for the Imperial agent, while not-so-much for the smuggler.
Honestly, ignoring various designs decisions on which their ruling is not known, not mirroring the classes except in roles is probably the single most glaring issue I have with their efforts so far. I get it, they get to tout a higher number of unique classes than they would have if they went for mirrors - as they'd still need separate storylines for Empire and Republic - and they set up for a portion of their first expansion nicely, but seriously, this could blow up in their faces.
Re: Group quests. I think this is a matchmaking issue; Auto-PUGs are an excellent way to solve it, but you could also expand support systems for that kind of thing considerably. Didn't SWG have some kind of digital version of some japanese-tech-trend where - if activated - it could be made to give you a signal if someone fitting a certain set of criteria in their own profile appeared nearby?
And what's this about variable flashpoint size? I stopped following this game for a few months - as in concluding that the release date was so far of there was no use torturing myself - but last I heard, well, I didn't hear anything about that. 4 person flashpoint, with the companion presence there to make sure that you could bring whichever 4 people you liked regardless of their classes, because companion swapping would still give you sufficient tank/healer/DPS.
The variable size were for raids, they mentioned something about the Raid UI.
As for the last bit there, that isn't how it works. If you've got four people, you can't bring ANY companions. It's only if you're missing a spot that a companion can fill in.
And what's this about variable flashpoint size? I stopped following this game for a few months - as in concluding that the release date was so far of there was no use torturing myself - but last I heard, well, I didn't hear anything about that. 4 person flashpoint, with the companion presence there to make sure that you could bring whichever 4 people you liked regardless of their classes, because companion swapping would still give you sufficient tank/healer/DPS.
Flashpoints don't have varying sizes, only some group quests do, apparently.
According to some leaks, you can swap out 1, maybe 2 real people for companions, at least in the early flashpoints.
I'm glad the beta tester isn't speculating. We can all speculate until our eyes bleed and we don't even want to play this game anymore. What I want from the tester leaks is actual information from actual experience.
there's definitely something to be said for statistical measurements of balance. If 80% of all battlegrounds are won by the Empire - not as in some random guy on the forums claimed it, but as in as-the-makers-of-a-proper-MMO-we-track-this-statistic fact - this is Bad, this will impact how Fun PvP is, and calling it an illusion is sort of an insult to the intelligence of your players.
Yeah point taken, but this is kinda what I meant by "illusion", because so often the data does NOT back up the perception. And even when it does, it is usually an incomplete data set, and also if the perception is real, then the balance is adjusted pretty quickly.
Don't get me wrong, there's games with a lot of really bad PvP, but this is a class system (not a skills system), so SW:TOR has greater control over things to nerf and fluff things to keep PvP relatively fair.
Honestly, ignoring various designs decisions on which their ruling is not known, not mirroring the classes except in roles is probably the single most glaring issue I have with their efforts so far. I get it, they get to tout a higher number of unique classes than they would have if they went for mirrors - as they'd still need separate storylines for Empire and Republic - and they set up for a portion of their first expansion nicely, but seriously, this could blow up in their faces.
I don't think we know enough really judge though. What we know is the Bounty Hunter and Smuggler aren't exact mirrors of one another, but that doesn't mean they can't be relatively balanced in a fight against one another.
I take your point though, sometimes systems are poorly designed and the player's complaints are valid, I just suggest that more often than not, it's not the system, its the player.
Certainly the two games I PvPed in a lot (Warcraft, World of Tanks), the gripes were overblown compared to the facts on the ground.
Man, with 30 - 40 GBs, I guess I'll have to go with a boxed copy. I don't know if I should be cursing my ISP or thanking them for forcing me to avoid Origin.
Man, with 30 - 40 GBs, I guess I'll have to go with a boxed copy. I don't know if I should be cursing my ISP or thanking them for forcing me to avoid Origin.
30 GB install from disk and yet we'll still have to download multi-GB zero-day patches.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
0
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
what other exciting news do you bring from the future?
Actually, zero day patches aren't that huge normally.
They are annoying because there will be 1.9billion of them, but it isn't even close to the gig range normally, unless something seriously fucked up happens.
Actually, zero day patches aren't that huge normally.
They are annoying because there will be 1.9billion of them, but it isn't even close to the gig range normally, unless something seriously fucked up happens.
Yeah, that would require Bioware being all "Oh shit, we forgot Tattooine!". Bug fixes in code shouldn't be large.
Reading through this Q&A, man am I going to get sick of having to use "advanced class" instead of "class" in every discussion about this game forever.
Yeah. I wish they'd call the "class" something like origin or background or similar instead, and have the AC be plain old "class".
Echo on
0
TurksonNear the mountains of ColoradoRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
A friend is showing interest in this game, and so am I. She's waffling between Sith or a Smuggler. I want to play a Trooper. How do I convince her to go Republic with me?
TOR's general forums are kinda going crazy. Release speculation threads are suddenly being deleted after having been kept up by mods just a few days ago.
I'm an optimist, so I think they are close to ready to announce the date.
TOR's general forums are kinda going crazy. Release speculation threads are suddenly being deleted after having been kept up by mods just a few days ago.
I'm an optimist, so I think they are close to ready to announce the date.
I thought this was weird (Q&A):
Q. Based on what you've played so far, what is your prediction for the release date of the game?
A. October 4th.
I know he probably has no better idea than the rest of us, but I need something to cling to and he seems so certain!
TOR's general forums are kinda going crazy. Release speculation threads are suddenly being deleted after having been kept up by mods just a few days ago.
I'm an optimist, so I think they are close to ready to announce the date.
I thought this was weird (Q&A):
Q. Based on what you've played so far, what is your prediction for the release date of the game?
A. October 4th.
I know he probably has no better idea than the rest of us, but I need something to cling to and he seems so certain!
As one of the few 'lucky ones' I'll just go ahead and predict November 4th, so if October 4th passes without a release you'll have a new date to look forward to!
A friend is showing interest in this game, and so am I. She's waffling between Sith or a Smuggler. I want to play a Trooper. How do I convince her to go Republic with me?
You don't you peace loving hipping smelling democracy votin' scum.
If you will not turn to the Dark Side... then perhaps she will...
A friend is showing interest in this game, and so am I. She's waffling between Sith or a Smuggler. I want to play a Trooper. How do I convince her to go Republic with me?
Tell her she can be a smuggler, a "good guy", yet still be able to be the biggest dick in the galaxy without any of the guilt through some wonderful dialogue choices.
Earlier this year I heard a rumor that they were aiming for September, so October 4 seems realistic if they had to suddenly delay release for, say, a companion revamp.
Another friend got in last week. Said the client was 30GB, but he's had trouble downloading it, so he hasn't played yet. I doubt the bastard even likes Star Wars. He told me he hated KOTOR and Mass Effect.
The Dagon on
Steam ID : TheDagon
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon
Posts
Maybe cool lightsaber noises.
After a while Battle Fatigue became moot anyway since you'd want to get buffed by dancers and musicians before heading out into combat or pvp - which simultaneously got rid of Battle Fatigue.
I can understand where some folks are coming from wanting a cantina-dynamic in TOR. And it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with RP. It was more about there being a time and place to socialize with folks on the server and get to know each other - since you had some downtime and almost everybody on the server hung out at one of three or four cantinas.
Is forcing folks into the cantinas the right answer? probably not. but as an SWG vet i do miss the social aspect that came with it that is largely lost in MMOs today. really the only equivalent I can think of was in Warhammer - cramped into a keep waiting for the other side to finish capping BOs and attack.
Empire - Veela Server
Fun.
We tend to focus a lot on the mechanics of the design, but really it just comes down to whether you have fun or not with the game.
And what constitutes "fun" in a game probably varies a little in all of us.
Friends are also key. If I can't establish a small group of reliable friends who enjoy the game in similar ways to me, I tend to abandon the game quickly.
So for me, if they tag a server (or more) as an RP server, if I find a rich, creative RP community, if I get wrapped into a few story lines with them, I'll be sold for a long time.
Up next on the Galactic Sports Network...
they mentioned during the Alderaan walkthrough that content in instanced areas scales to the group - depending on the number of players and companions in the group (not sure if it'll also scale by level).
so you could do it yourself pretty easily, or grab some friends and have it feel a lot more epic.
Empire - Veela Server
A. They all play very differently, with different abilities, The idea that they are “mirror classes” is a fallacy.
I suspected this
Q. How many GB is the current beta client?
A. ~30GB.
JESUS CHRIST
Empire - Veela Server
I hope this doesn't turn into a pally/shammy "other side is better than us" favoritism issue.
I quite like the sound of that faction neutral pvp bloodbowl game even though as in most games I probably wont end up pvp'ing much.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
So, given that I think balance (or lack of it) is bit of an illusion, I'd rather have the variety.
Yes, I understand that he didn't play the classes. And yes, I understand that the classes are not perfect mirrors.
But I think it would have been more useful/informative to have him at least say "they don't line up exactly, but as an analogy, I can answer your question about the smuggler with my experience as an IA."
Sorry, I just don't believe that the opposing classes are going to be so WILDLY different that the experience of playing one doesn't translate at least a small amount over to playing the other.
Now, I'm just guessing, but basically what happened is this guy emails beta cake, says , dude I got in, I'll answer questions, then gets sent a huge list of questions in an email, then just types the answers out.
The dude has been focusing on Empire gameplay. when he comes accross an question about the republic, he just says I don't know.
Honestly, ignoring various designs decisions on which their ruling is not known, not mirroring the classes except in roles is probably the single most glaring issue I have with their efforts so far. I get it, they get to tout a higher number of unique classes than they would have if they went for mirrors - as they'd still need separate storylines for Empire and Republic - and they set up for a portion of their first expansion nicely, but seriously, this could blow up in their faces.
Re: Group quests. I think this is a matchmaking issue; Auto-PUGs are an excellent way to solve it, but you could also expand support systems for that kind of thing considerably. Didn't SWG have some kind of digital version of some japanese-tech-trend where - if activated - it could be made to give you a signal if someone fitting a certain set of criteria in their own profile appeared nearby?
And what's this about variable flashpoint size? I stopped following this game for a few months - as in concluding that the release date was so far of there was no use torturing myself - but last I heard, well, I didn't hear anything about that. 4 person flashpoint, with the companion presence there to make sure that you could bring whichever 4 people you liked regardless of their classes, because companion swapping would still give you sufficient tank/healer/DPS.
As for the last bit there, that isn't how it works. If you've got four people, you can't bring ANY companions. It's only if you're missing a spot that a companion can fill in.
Flashpoints don't have varying sizes, only some group quests do, apparently.
According to some leaks, you can swap out 1, maybe 2 real people for companions, at least in the early flashpoints.
Ugh, and now I have to wait for 240/256GB SSDs to get cheaper.
Yeah point taken, but this is kinda what I meant by "illusion", because so often the data does NOT back up the perception. And even when it does, it is usually an incomplete data set, and also if the perception is real, then the balance is adjusted pretty quickly.
Don't get me wrong, there's games with a lot of really bad PvP, but this is a class system (not a skills system), so SW:TOR has greater control over things to nerf and fluff things to keep PvP relatively fair.
I don't think we know enough really judge though. What we know is the Bounty Hunter and Smuggler aren't exact mirrors of one another, but that doesn't mean they can't be relatively balanced in a fight against one another.
I take your point though, sometimes systems are poorly designed and the player's complaints are valid, I just suggest that more often than not, it's not the system, its the player.
Certainly the two games I PvPed in a lot (Warcraft, World of Tanks), the gripes were overblown compared to the facts on the ground.
30 GB install from disk and yet we'll still have to download multi-GB zero-day patches.
They are annoying because there will be 1.9billion of them, but it isn't even close to the gig range normally, unless something seriously fucked up happens.
Yeah, that would require Bioware being all "Oh shit, we forgot Tattooine!". Bug fixes in code shouldn't be large.
Now the voice acting of every npc on it...
I figured that was implied :P
Reading through this Q&A, man am I going to get sick of having to use "advanced class" instead of "class" in every discussion about this game forever.
Yeah. I wish they'd call the "class" something like origin or background or similar instead, and have the AC be plain old "class".
I'm an optimist, so I think they are close to ready to announce the date.
PSN: ShinyRedKnight Xbox Live: ShinyRedKnight
I thought this was weird (Q&A): I know he probably has no better idea than the rest of us, but I need something to cling to and he seems so certain!
As one of the few 'lucky ones' I'll just go ahead and predict November 4th, so if October 4th passes without a release you'll have a new date to look forward to!
PSN: OrneryRooster
You don't you peace loving hipping smelling democracy votin' scum.
If you will not turn to the Dark Side... then perhaps she will...
Tell her she can be a smuggler, a "good guy", yet still be able to be the biggest dick in the galaxy without any of the guilt through some wonderful dialogue choices.
PSN: OrneryRooster
Another friend got in last week. Said the client was 30GB, but he's had trouble downloading it, so he hasn't played yet. I doubt the bastard even likes Star Wars. He told me he hated KOTOR and Mass Effect.
PSN : TheDagon
Pretty much every game ever : TheDagon