Vita probably can't do this because all games are supposed to have a simultaneous digital release, which would have to have local saves, which would have to be deletable in order to clear off space.
However if they really wanted to be obstinate, they could do a Steam cloud save sort of system that automatically keeps your save up to date whenever you're online. Delete the game and its save, redownload it and you automatically get that same cloud save over again. That's pure speculation/devil's advocate though.
George Hotz, also known as "GeoHot" on the Internet, is now working at Facebook, the company confirms. Hotz is best known for both his iPhone hacking skills and as the person who jailbroke and reverse engineered Sony's PlayStation 3, leading to legal battles. In April, Sony announced it reached a settlement with Hotz, with Hotz agreeing to a permanent injunction against publishing any further code.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I wont buy any game that does this. I can live without.
Exception: games where it doesn't matter. eg dmc. It doesn't matter because you can replay the levels whenever you want and there is no advantage to not having every skill.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Vita probably can't do this because all games are supposed to have a simultaneous digital release, which would have to have local saves, which would have to be deletable in order to clear off space.
However if they really wanted to be obstinate, they could do a Steam cloud save sort of system that automatically keeps your save up to date whenever you're online. Delete the game and its save, redownload it and you automatically get that same cloud save over again. That's pure speculation/devil's advocate though.
Nintendo could also mandate erasable saves for 3DS games.
Apparently a Capcom employee posted something about "looking into the issue." But that doesn't mean much, his boss will probably say "you moron, that's how the game was made and we've already commented on it. Now they think we might tell them the button combo to reset the save! Go back and do some damage control, tell them it's beneficial because you'll never lose your high scores or something."
Not sure if there's anything or any particular organization that could block such a tactic. If Nintendo mandated saves on the cart, but then the policy went on to become standard within Capcom, then suddenly--oops--you'd have no more Capcom games on the 3DS.
Seems like the biggest factor will be the sales of the game (as it tends to always be).
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Nintendo Network ID: V-Faction | XBL: V Faction | Steam | 3DS: 3136 - 6603 - 1330 PokemonWhite Friend Code: 0046-2121-0723/White2 Friend Code: 0519-5126-2990
"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Apparently a Capcom employee posted something about "looking into the issue." But that doesn't mean much, his boss will probably say "you moron, that's how the game was made and we've already commented on it. Now they think we might tell them the button combo to reset the save! Go back and do some damage control, tell them it's beneficial because you'll never lose your high scores or something."
Well, the fact that they're apparently going into damage control mode means they might be less likely to do this crap in the future.
But it's probably too late to do anything for that particular game.
Yeah, knowing that the game will be worth goose-all as a trade in is going to put a lot of people off. Capcom may have hurt the second hand market, but by doing so their hurting their first hand market. Which is insane, I can't see how they didn't see this coming.
And Capcom would change their own policies if Nintendo mandated saves be deleteable. They still have plenty of games to port to 3DS.
edit: could the game be patched to be able to fix this? The 3DS is obviously Nintendo's best effort in terms of an online system, so can 3DS games be patched?
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
That's normal though. I mean sucks if you wanted to buy it second hand. But trying something and being knocked back is how you progress. I can see why they tried it. I understand the logic.
I don't LIKE it, but I'm not a company.
People tend to focus too heavily on mistakes made, when you should be looking at whether mistakes are learnt from.
For example, if they keep on doing it...
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Did GBA and DS games have mandated erasable saves? I know a bunch had that "Hold A-B-L-R" junk that would do it, and others simply had ye olde overwritable slots. I wonder if there's actually a game out there that technically doesn't let you do it, but due to the game nobody notices/cares.
I dunno, my gut says that the whole thing might be a coincidence. Nature of the game (with unlockable stuff and such) + one save per cart + unerasable save = unexpected side effect of being a shitty second hand product. I don't know if Capcom is actually clever enough to have actually engineered this on purpose, it just turned out to be one hell of an accident.
The question now being, now that you've discovered the antithesis of chocolate and peanut butter, what do you do now to hopefully never have it happen again.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
The unerasable save had to have been a decision made by capcom, and there is no reason I can see for doing it aside from making it have a lower value if the cart changes hands.
As for the ABLR combo, that was sadly only on a per-game basis, same as L+dpad right+select was for some DS games
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I cannot think of a meaningful reason to take out a standard feature of save slots (deleting them) that enhances the gameplay for the first person to play it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
The closest I can think of is some Nintendo games require you to do the button combo to delete all info: Mario 64 DS has the minigame unlocks that don't go away when you delete any save files. But that's still able to be deleted in some way, its just a little convoluted.
That button combo should have been a standard means to erase all data for all GBA/DS/3DS games.
When that happens though, I wonder if publishers understand that it will reduce the percieved value of the game to the customer. Part of the value many consumers see in a game is that they can later on sell it, often putting that money towards other new games.
You kind of have to have the right game design as well for it to be a big deal. Off the top of my head, fighting games, racing games... that's all that come to mind at the moment.
On the other hand, if I couldn't delete the save off a used... Metal Gear Solid game? Eh, big flipping deal, I just won't cheat and use the optic camo on my first run. Ace Attorney? I can resist the urge in not jumping straight to the last case.
It really affects Mercenaries because it's just that style of game. But taking a glance at the game case behind me, I can't really spot many games that would be drastically affected if I could never delete the save. Not enough for me to give a hoot.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
If it becomes industry standard, it won't matter one way or another whether customers don't like it
I think it will. If people can no longer trade games toward new game purchases, then fewer new game will be purchased. Instead, more people will be "waiting for the price drop", which in an industry obsessed with day one/week one sales is not a good thing.
Have there been any other games with unerasable saves? I can't think of any.
That Secret Diary game from the Imagine range, hoo boy it was fun learning that after the game had been returned by a customer.
There have been other examples posted in the wake of this but I don't remember them offhand. Higher profile games too, on both GBA and DS. People say the 3DS Monkey Ball can't have its save reset, and it's actually a similar style game to this (unlock levels, keep repeating for score attack).
You kind of have to have the right game design as well for it to be a big deal. Off the top of my head, fighting games, racing games... that's all that come to mind at the moment.
On the other hand, if I couldn't delete the save off a used... Metal Gear Solid game? Eh, big flipping deal, I just won't cheat and use the optic camo on my first run. Ace Attorney? I can resist the urge in not jumping straight to the last case.
It really affects Mercenaries because it's just that style of game. But taking a glance at the game case behind me, I can't really spot many games that would be drastically affected if I could never delete the save. Not enough for me to give a hoot.
Hmm, I was thinking the exact opposite. Imagine an RPG forever stuck right before the final boss with every item in your inventory. Imagine RE4 permanently stuck in New Game Plus, starting with the rocket launcher and a different outfit.
A game like this is about the only thing you could get away with because there's no story and all the content is always experience-able as if it was your first time playing. And they didn't even really get away with it here!
Have there been any other games with unerasable saves? I can't think of any.
That Secret Diary game from the Imagine range, hoo boy it was fun learning that after the game had been returned by a customer.
There have been other examples posted in the wake of this but I don't remember them offhand. Higher profile games too, on both GBA and DS. People say the 3DS Monkey Ball can't have its save reset, and it's actually a similar style game to this (unlock levels, keep repeating for score attack).
You kind of have to have the right game design as well for it to be a big deal. Off the top of my head, fighting games, racing games... that's all that come to mind at the moment.
On the other hand, if I couldn't delete the save off a used... Metal Gear Solid game? Eh, big flipping deal, I just won't cheat and use the optic camo on my first run. Ace Attorney? I can resist the urge in not jumping straight to the last case.
It really affects Mercenaries because it's just that style of game. But taking a glance at the game case behind me, I can't really spot many games that would be drastically affected if I could never delete the save. Not enough for me to give a hoot.
Hmm, I was thinking the exact opposite. Imagine an RPG forever stuck right before the final boss with every item in your inventory. Imagine RE4 permanently stuck in New Game Plus, starting with the rocket launcher and a different outfit.
A game like this is about the only thing you could get away with because there's no story and all the content is always experience-able as if it was your first time playing. And they didn't even really get away with it here!
Your RPG example doesn't work. You're not just removing the ability to delete saves. You're completely removing the ability to start a New Game. That's really going down the slippery slope there. Shit, that makes every single game playable exactly once. No way anybody is ever going to have the balls to try that.
RE4 though... yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It still would depend on how exactly the NG+ was designed. I could deal with simply throwing the rocket launcher away and never using it. Forced costume switch would be a pain though. Any further tinkering though, and you're slipping down the above slope.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Also, similar but not exactly the same, DQ9 only has one save. In America it's one thing, but in Japan where the series is HUGE it meant that there a lot of households where they probably were forced to buy multiple copies for each of the kids.
Also, similar but not exactly the same, DQ9 only has one save. In America it's one thing, but in Japan where the series is HUGE it meant that there a lot of households where they probably were forced to buy multiple copies for each of the kids.
Pokemon having one save is most likely due to it only having enough room for one. Hell, the thing can take like 10 seconds plus at times. And while you can start a brand new game, they specifically make you jump through the hoop of deleting the previous game first. Safety net against younger siblings I bet.
I have to wonder if there's also something behind the scenes in DQ9 to limit it to 1 save. Maybe because of the tag mod or something?
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
All DS Pokemon game saves are 512 kilobytes. It's likely that they keep a backup save too, like many other cartridge-based games; Nintendo likes to cover its bases there.
Did GBA and DS games have mandated erasable saves? I know a bunch had that "Hold A-B-L-R" junk that would do it, and others simply had ye olde overwritable slots. I wonder if there's actually a game out there that technically doesn't let you do it, but due to the game nobody notices/cares.
I dunno, my gut says that the whole thing might be a coincidence. Nature of the game (with unlockable stuff and such) + one save per cart + unerasable save = unexpected side effect of being a shitty second hand product. I don't know if Capcom is actually clever enough to have actually engineered this on purpose, it just turned out to be one hell of an accident.
The question now being, now that you've discovered the antithesis of chocolate and peanut butter, what do you do now to hopefully never have it happen again.
@patrickklepek There are a some other DS games without a Data Reset option, actually. Lunar Knights, off the top of my head.
V Faction on
Nintendo Network ID: V-Faction | XBL: V Faction | Steam | 3DS: 3136 - 6603 - 1330 PokemonWhite Friend Code: 0046-2121-0723/White2 Friend Code: 0519-5126-2990
"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
All DS Pokemon game saves are 512 kilobytes. It's likely that they keep a backup save too, like many other cartridge-based games; Nintendo likes to cover its bases there.
Yeah, they kept adding extra copies of saves with new generations. And thank god. The original carts were the worst at losing saves
Spoit on
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
It's also likely that Nintendo thinks that they can sell multiple copies to single households by limiting the number of saves.
Yeah, if you could have multiple profiles on one cart (even if you could only save one profile to one slot) it would be easier for people to farm rare items and pokemon (which some people do buy a second game for) or share it among a family, like you mention.
Brushing off calls for his resignation, Stringer explained why, he believes, Sony was targeted by the hacker in an attack which brought the PlayStation Network down for several weeks.
"We believe that we first became the subject of attack because we tried to protect our IP (intellectual property), our content, in this case videogames," he told the crowd.
"These are our corporate assets, and there are those that don't want us to protect them, they want everything to be free."
Or they attacked it for a shitload of other reasons.
Posts
However if they really wanted to be obstinate, they could do a Steam cloud save sort of system that automatically keeps your save up to date whenever you're online. Delete the game and its save, redownload it and you automatically get that same cloud save over again. That's pure speculation/devil's advocate though.
I don't understand the question.
Exception: games where it doesn't matter. eg dmc. It doesn't matter because you can replay the levels whenever you want and there is no advantage to not having every skill.
Nintendo could also mandate erasable saves for 3DS games.
Capcom are being geese of the highest order.
Seems like the biggest factor will be the sales of the game (as it tends to always be).
Pokemon White Friend Code: 0046-2121-0723/White 2 Friend Code: 0519-5126-2990
"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Well, the fact that they're apparently going into damage control mode means they might be less likely to do this crap in the future.
But it's probably too late to do anything for that particular game.
And Capcom would change their own policies if Nintendo mandated saves be deleteable. They still have plenty of games to port to 3DS.
edit: could the game be patched to be able to fix this? The 3DS is obviously Nintendo's best effort in terms of an online system, so can 3DS games be patched?
I don't LIKE it, but I'm not a company.
People tend to focus too heavily on mistakes made, when you should be looking at whether mistakes are learnt from.
For example, if they keep on doing it...
I dunno, my gut says that the whole thing might be a coincidence. Nature of the game (with unlockable stuff and such) + one save per cart + unerasable save = unexpected side effect of being a shitty second hand product. I don't know if Capcom is actually clever enough to have actually engineered this on purpose, it just turned out to be one hell of an accident.
The question now being, now that you've discovered the antithesis of chocolate and peanut butter, what do you do now to hopefully never have it happen again.
As for the ABLR combo, that was sadly only on a per-game basis, same as L+dpad right+select was for some DS games
I'm just eyeballing my DS and GBA games and trying to spot one that doesn't let you overwrite/delete saves, but I'm also coming up bupkis.
That button combo should have been a standard means to erase all data for all GBA/DS/3DS games.
That Secret Diary game from the Imagine range, hoo boy it was fun learning that after the game had been returned by a customer.
Not the least of which because it honestly shouldn't affect used sales that much, yet is preventing some sales to those who know about it.
On the other hand, if I couldn't delete the save off a used... Metal Gear Solid game? Eh, big flipping deal, I just won't cheat and use the optic camo on my first run. Ace Attorney? I can resist the urge in not jumping straight to the last case.
It really affects Mercenaries because it's just that style of game. But taking a glance at the game case behind me, I can't really spot many games that would be drastically affected if I could never delete the save. Not enough for me to give a hoot.
I think it will. If people can no longer trade games toward new game purchases, then fewer new game will be purchased. Instead, more people will be "waiting for the price drop", which in an industry obsessed with day one/week one sales is not a good thing.
There have been other examples posted in the wake of this but I don't remember them offhand. Higher profile games too, on both GBA and DS. People say the 3DS Monkey Ball can't have its save reset, and it's actually a similar style game to this (unlock levels, keep repeating for score attack).
Hmm, I was thinking the exact opposite. Imagine an RPG forever stuck right before the final boss with every item in your inventory. Imagine RE4 permanently stuck in New Game Plus, starting with the rocket launcher and a different outfit.
A game like this is about the only thing you could get away with because there's no story and all the content is always experience-able as if it was your first time playing. And they didn't even really get away with it here!
Your RPG example doesn't work. You're not just removing the ability to delete saves. You're completely removing the ability to start a New Game. That's really going down the slippery slope there. Shit, that makes every single game playable exactly once. No way anybody is ever going to have the balls to try that.
RE4 though... yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It still would depend on how exactly the NG+ was designed. I could deal with simply throwing the rocket launcher away and never using it. Forced costume switch would be a pain though. Any further tinkering though, and you're slipping down the above slope.
Also every Pokemon game ever made.
I have to wonder if there's also something behind the scenes in DQ9 to limit it to 1 save. Maybe because of the tag mod or something?
Here's more on the situation from Giant Bomb: http://www.giantbomb.com/news/capcom-used-games-not-a-factor-in-resident-evil-the-mercenaries-3d-lacking-data-reset/3430/
Also, some twitter chatter:
Pokemon White Friend Code: 0046-2121-0723/White 2 Friend Code: 0519-5126-2990
"Did ya hear the one about the mussel that wanted to purchase Valve? Seems like the bivalve had a juicy offer on the table but the company flat-out refused and decided to immediately clam up!"
Yeah, they kept adding extra copies of saves with new generations. And thank god. The original carts were the worst at losing saves
Yeah, if you could have multiple profiles on one cart (even if you could only save one profile to one slot) it would be easier for people to farm rare items and pokemon (which some people do buy a second game for) or share it among a family, like you mention.