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Friend dismissed from work after 1 1/2 months, undiagnosed sleeping disorder?
Giggles_Funsworth
Blight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
Blight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
So I got a friend who's been down on his luck for awhile a job at the same place I've been working about a year now, he hadn't been employed in awhile and this was his first real job and he was super stoked. He was a good enough employee, but shortly after he started he started having trouble nodding off at work. Initially he chalked it up to a change of schedule and a pretty brutal commute exhausting him, but after switching up his sleeping schedule reducing his caffeine intake in the evenings and on weekends, and still having difficulties, he scheduled an appointment with a doctor the day after he got insurance.
Now, he THOUGHT that things were getting better, and that he was staying awake in the days leading up to his dismissal, but multiple people saw him nod off, albeit incredibly briefly. He had been warned multiple times before this, once in writing, and in my opinion the company leadership was pretty generous given his newness, and had he just been falling asleep for a non-medical reason. He scheduled the appointment with the doctor over a week before his dismissal, and he didn't inform his superiors because he thought he was getting better. He didn't get a chance to let anybody know about his suspicions of a disorder or the doctor's appointment because he was caught unawares and once everything was set into motion he was out the door in less than 15 minutes.
The advice I'm looking for here is what's the best way, if any, to help my friend get his job back without damaging my own reputation or stepping on any toes.
Now, he THOUGHT that things were getting better, and that he was staying awake in the days leading up to his dismissal, but multiple people saw him nod off, albeit incredibly briefly. He had been warned multiple times before this, once in writing, and in my opinion the company leadership was pretty generous given his newness, and had he just been falling asleep for a non-medical reason. He scheduled the appointment with the doctor over a week before his dismissal, and he didn't inform his superiors because he thought he was getting better. He didn't get a chance to let anybody know about his suspicions of a disorder or the doctor's appointment because he was caught unawares and once everything was set into motion he was out the door in less than 15 minutes.
The advice I'm looking for here is what's the best way, if any, to help my friend get his job back without damaging my own reputation or stepping on any toes.
Giggles_Funsworth on
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I am probably going to step on some toes here and there but I want to minimize collateral considering I haven't been working there all that long myself, and I'd like to work there for a couple more years.
It was goosy of him, and I've already scolded him for not letting them know he'd made an appointment, and not making more of an issue of the fact that he was seeking medical help when they were firing him but he:
1. Realized he had a problem.
2. Made a doctor's appointment as soon as he got his insurance card.
3. Thought problem was/had getting/gotten better on it's own.
4. Found out he still had a problem as he was getting fired before he'd even had a consultation (first appointment they had when he called isn't until next week).
If it wasn't for the fact he just started this is something that would pretty clearly be covered under FMLA. I'm trying to help him because he's getting shut out when he tries to contact people. It is ridiculously frustrating that the first real chance he's had in literally years is getting blown to pieces because of a medical problem he didn't know he had. Also his insurance is only going to last until the end of the month and getting a diagnosis on this (if there is one) is probably going to take longer than that.
Was he nodding off before he started working there? If it was ongoing, wouldn't he have had some idea of it before? What did the doctor diagnose him with?
Have you said anything yet to his/your superior? Is it such a rigid power structure that you couldn't say "Hey, my friend who you fired would really like to get ahold of you to talk about a medical condition he has that caused his termination.". Because really, that's the most you can do. The rest is up to him. He's an adult and I would hope be able to handle the situation on his own. It's nice of you to offer him your support, but there's only so much (if anything) you can do.
EDIT: Ah, I see. He hasn't even been in to the doctor yet. Well, he needs to get into the doctor, get diagnosed, and then he'll have something to show your superiors.
Shut out meaning everything's being routed through HR, and HR is either taking their sweet time getting back to him or just ignoring him. I mostly wanted to bring up the possibility of putting him on medical leave instead of leaving him out in the cold, because he's not even going to be able to see a GP until end of next week, after that he's probably going to have to see a specialist, etc. etc. He moved on this as fast as he could be expected to given his finances, he just didn't do the best job of communicating what was going on because he thought he had gotten better and he got shoved out the door so fast he didn't really have time to make a case.
It's a fairly small company, just moving out of start up mode, we only even got an HR lady (lady, not department) a couple months ago. There are very few if any established policies for most things. I am trying to figure out the best way to make a case for him to the department head (guy above my manager what did the firing)
That's not being shut out, that's things working the way they should. It's out of the managers hands now and in HR's. He needs to produce something from a doctor so the wait shouldn't matter at this point. They're not going to hire him back or put him on a medical leave without some sort of proof. This is what HR is there for. How do you know that they're ignoring him or "taking their time"?
Trying to go over HR's head on this is going to reflect very poorly on you. At this point, this matter doesn't really concern you at all. You can vouch for him when it comes to that point, but for now, sit back, let the process work, and wait for him to get an official word from the doctor.
The HR Lady is the same person that ignored him when he tried to tell her he'd made a doctor's appointment. Manager took him to HR, left, HR ignored him and shoved him out the door. He's getting dicked.
Like I already said, at this point he needs paperwork. He needs to notify both the HR and management of the company in writing that he has this appointment and that it was made during his employment. I'd recommend he both e-mail and send hard copies of his notification to the appropriate people. Then he needs to go to said appointment and produce something from the doctor detailing whatever might be ailing him. Then he needs to send that to HR and the management if it shows that he actually has a condition.
All you can do is tell the upper management is to inform them that this is what he's doing so that should it come to some sort of legal action (is this an outcome you and he are considering?) that you can vouch for their knowledge of his intentions (albeit very late in the game).
He had a warning or two, and a single write up. They didn't say anything after that and to his knowledge he was awake 100% of the time (he wasn't), so he didn't tell them about the appointment he made because he thought he had just been fatigued and it was a non-issue.
I am trying to find a way to help him maneuver himself back into his job without any legal action, and that is an outcome I would rather avoid because I don't want to become known as the guy that referred the guy that sued the company when he got fired. It'd be costly for both sides and honestly I don't think he has that much of a case because of how briefly he worked there. However, his dad (who he lives with) is a douchebag and first thing he said when he told him he'd been fired was that he should get a lawyer and sue because in California you have mandated breaks and if they didn't specify his breaks for him who's to say he wasn't sleeping while he was on break? This is a stupid argument and probably won't go anywhere but he is under pressure to make something happen from his douchebag dad and if he finds out he has a medical condition I can see the pressure getting ramped up quite a bit.
And yeah, you don't want to be that guy. I would back off of this immediately (especially with his father threatening lawsuits) and wash your hands of it completely. You do not want to be associated with whatever crazy scheme his dad tries to get him to pull. He's an adult, he can make his own decisions.
That's what I mean. Let the dice fall. You won't be "that guy" if you just back away from it now. If you continue to interfere in a process that has nothing to do with you, then you will be. Being a friend is one thing, getting on the bad side of your company because your friend can't speak up for himself and has a goosey dad is something else entirely. Pick your battles wisely.
I hope your friend is ok and doesn't have anything seriously wrong going on. Best of luck to both you and him.
It's just frustrating.
If he sues the company or demands the reasonable accomodation of "nap time", this will reflect very poorly on you.
In any case, it seems like you'd only be sabotaging yourself by getting more involved at the workplace to me. Offer you condolences, be there to listen to him, and offer to help in other ways like letting him know about "now hiring" signs you see around town, but talking to your bosses on his behalf really isn't your responsibility.
What Esh says is correct, though--this is not your battle, and getting involved will only make things worse for the both of you. I know this was a good opportunity for him, and he's been looking for work for a while, but this is not the only job he'll ever have.
Best thing he can do? Learn from it.
1. Don't fucking fall asleep on the job. I know it him it seems like he's got no memory of these incidents since he's been asleep for them, but everyone knows when they're nodding off. Stand up, take a quick walk around, pinch your wrist... anything to prevent you from hitting the desk. If it turns out that he does have some sort of medical issue that's fatiguing him it gives him a bit of leniency, but it's still his duty to root out the issue and solve it, not the employer's.
2. Tell your boss that you have a doctor's appointment. This also goes for anything involving having to take time off from work. And tell them at the same moment that the appointment is set--not a week later (and not the day of, either, I'm sure that would've gone over well), but ASAP. Not only does it give them time to make up for his absence, but it also would've shown that he was working on getting better.
He isn't, he shut his dad down immediately before I even pointed out California's an at-will employment state. His dad's just a huge asshole.
As for accommodating him, I don't know. If it's narcolepsy or something similar I believe that can be treated with medication? If it's not all it really requires is the guy next to him tapping him on the shoulder. He doesn't have a problem waking up, he was never late except when he got in a car accident; just can't keep from nodding off in a microsleep, for such short durations that he wasn't even aware he was doing it.
1. He was doing that (walks when he got tired), and he thought he wasn't falling asleep anymore. He also had a box of 5-hour energy things for the morning and was allowing for 8+ hours of sleep every night.
2. The appointment was on a Saturday initially, because he was trying to avoid taking more time off than he needed to because he figured after the initial appointment he'd need to see a specialist. The only way letting the higher ups know about it would have been important was so that they knew he was taking action on his problem, but he didn't do that because he thought the walks and 5-hour energies were working and he had no problem anymore.
3. When you get a warning, stop allowing that behavior to continue. An employer will give allowances within reason--medical conditions being one--but continuing to misbehave after a warning or two says to the boss that you don't give a shit about them. Had your friend gone and made a doctor's appointment immediately after his second warning, and explained it to his supervisor, he would've been much better off. Instead, he let it go until several verbal warnings and a written one. After that point, even making a doctor's appointment (or stating that you've made a doctor's appointment) just sounds like excuses to the brass, and they start to think about why they should keep you on when there's someone else out there who won't sleep on the job and ignore warnings and write-ups.
And I know he was waiting for his insurance, but there's always an alternative--unless you live out in the middle of nowhere or the nearest public health clinic is 150 miles away, there are affordable ways to see a doctor.
I don't think chain drinking 5 hour energies and coffee/soda is a great idea though. Your body will start needing them to function at normal capacity, and they will quickly lose any benefit at that point but have severe drawbacks for not drinking them.
If going to disability route, not much luck there either. The employer has to make "reasonable accommodations", but to do that they need notification as well.
In my opinion, the employer handled this relatively fairly. Could they be more understanding, probably...but they don't have to be.
Your friend will have to chalk this up as a learning experience (and hopefully get help if there is a medical condition).
If you are concerned how this may affect your own standing in the company, you could have a word with your supervisor. You don't have to throw your friend under a bus, but As a boss, I know a quick "hey, I'm sorry my recommendation didn't work out" would be appreciated.
Exactly what I wanted to ask and am curious about. I don't know the guy, but if I were falling *asleep* (meaning not just tired) during daytime, I would get it checked out. Unless this happened to started at the same time as his job, he must've have known this for a while..
Honestly, I think he has 0 chances of getting his job back. 2 verbal warnings and a write up is a lot, he's lucky he didn't get fired earlier.
If that's what's going on, my sympathies, because that is a shitty, shitty thing to have to deal with.
Sorry if that is totally useless, but the point is he can get a job and get through life.
In that case I apologize for tossing that label on your friend. Still the smart thing for you to do is to distance yourself from the whole affair as far as your company goes and maybe help him touch up his resume and find another opportunity. You do not want to be known as the friend of a 'problem' and it would be in your best interest if your friend never shows up on your manager's radar again.
It sucks, but the chances of him getting his job back are pretty much nil.
That said, I never EVER recommend someone for a position on my team or anywhere NEAR me on the org chart. If shit goes south, and knock on fucking wood it hasn't yet, I don't want to be in a position where a good friend of mine fucked up and put someone in my day-to-day in a shitty spot.
1) He needs to see a sleep specialist, not just a general care physician. Narcolepsy and excessive daytime sleepiness (EDS) are easily mistaken for one another. He needs to have a sleep study done. EDS is usually a symptom of another condition.
2) There are treatments for sleep disorders, but it depends on the root cause, which he won't know without a sleep study.
3) Give up any fantasies of getting his old job back. Having fought similar battles myself, it's not going to happen. It's gone. Move on.
4) He needs to get that sleep study done as soon as possible. Before he starts his next job, if he can afford it. If not, as soon as he can. Either way, he needs to have it done before he has problems at his next job.
5) As soon as it becomes an issue at his next job, he needs to immediately inform his employer that he has a medical condition and that he has been seeking treatment for it.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You will literally nod off and not know it, coffee, standing, and energy drinks only do so much. Mine was corrected with surgery and I didn't even know what was wrong with me. I just felt tired all the time even though I started to go to bed way early. I would doze off on the train and miss my stop making me late, and would doze off at work if I was not actively doing something for even a minute.
I was fired because of not adhering to attendance, due to being late a lot. It wasn't diagnosed till I was home unemployed sitting on the couch and I just went out cold my wife tried waking me up for a long time and I wouldn't get up and she says I had stopped breathing finally I came around it had freaked her out considerably. I don't know how it happened since I didn't have insurance(I paid a monthly premium and my job cut me off literally the next day) also they were fighting my unemployment claim but somehow I got on some kind of program in Texas was diagnosed and got scheduled for surgery.
The sleep study I took I didn't even stay for the whole thing my O2 stats went to like 18% and they were like yeah we need to get you in to an ENT. I had very swollen tonsils, they were literally filled with infection and when I would sleep my uvula would end up blocking my airway. So I had tonsils removed and my uvula shaved and I have been fine since. I maybe could have gotten my job back, but after the way I was treated after being fired even if I got my job back I wouldn't want to work with those people. So my advise for you is to stay out of it, your friend needs to get treatment while he still has insurance and let him move on.
It really sucks but that is life and he will probably come across a better opportunity, also I don't know how old your friend is but this happened to me in my early 20's other than that I haven't ever had any real health problems.