then late game your clone blows up for 1300 damage on their entire team
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The thing is, Orianna's damage isn't out of line. If you remember the theorycrafting I did, her numbers aren't all that different from several other casters. The issue is that once she has blue buff, she has stupid harassment power, and the only way to deal with that that I can see without nerfing her hard without blue buff (which a damage nerf would be) is to slow the ball speed the further it gets away from Orianna.
then late game your clone blows up for 1300 damage on their entire team
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
Survive?
Shaco has some fairly good ganking ability and poke potential.
He just can't really team fight that well no matter how you build him... (unless we go back in time to sunfire stacking!) so why not just leave that to your clone and throw daggers at peoples faces?
Psn:wazukki
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Apparently he was op as fuck but I never found out how. EVERY ranked I did people banned morde or told me to ban morde. Never gave an explanation. One queue dodged when I didn't and he was last picked.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
IDK, he's a bully in lane, but he doesn't bring much later on.
No, he's still pretty much a massive beefcake who deals high damage, is highly survivable, and provides a slight buffer between your squishies and their squishies, as he is.
Gunblade, WotA, Rylai's, Warmog's is pretty much his build now, and he becomes a tough fucker to shut down.
Yeah, I'd like to see his shield nerfed some, at least then you could reasonably expect to whittle him down in a lane. As it is right now he can just free farm in a lane as long as he wants with nothing but a regrowth pendant.
IDK, he's a bully in lane, but he doesn't bring much later on.
I don't know, once he got FoN and Sunfire cape with hextech revolver/gunblade mixed in along the way he becomes really really tough to deal with. He is able to walk into 3v1's and come out with a kill. He can initiate by simply walking forward.
he's a no-resource caster with lots of damage, sustainability, lane dominance, and built in tankiness that also has the GHOST portion of his ultimate, which is super strong considering how a lot of games these days are built around having a glass cannon ad carry that hangs out in the back of the fight
then late game your clone blows up for 1300 damage on their entire team
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
Survive?
Shaco has some fairly good ganking ability and poke potential.
He just can't really team fight that well no matter how you build him... (unless we go back in time to sunfire stacking!) so why not just leave that to your clone and throw daggers at peoples faces?
Every AP shaco I've ever seen in this game has been worthless. I'm not saying you can't pull off the build, but it's a gimmick and only works against bad teams. You have 2 AP based attacks in your basic kit( Minus ult), one of them being boxes (with a .25 ratio) you have to lure people into. I guess you could jungle, but that seems horribly inefficient when going AP, which means you're stuck in a lane as a melee trying to last hit, which leaves you pretty vulnerable as Shaco.
and nothing about Xin Zhao. I'm normally not a nerf herder, but damn he needs a nerf. Can sit in lane all damn day, has a slow and a popup on short cooldowns, and does high damage.
Or maybe I'm all baloo hoo hoo because he constantly kicks my ass and the only suggestion for 'how do I beat him' is 'CC and Focus' which is the most useless suggestion in the history of ever.
The thing is, Orianna's damage isn't out of line. If you remember the theorycrafting I did, her numbers aren't all that different from several other casters. The issue is that once she has blue buff, she has stupid harassment power, and the only way to deal with that that I can see without nerfing her hard without blue buff (which a damage nerf would be) is to slow the ball speed the further it gets away from Orianna.
It's definitely a solid solution for fixing her, damage isn't her problem, doing similar damage and being in 0 danger since her range is so ridiculous. She can sit 800+ away and QWEQ and it can be tough to dodge the second Q as it is. I certainly don't think she'd be UP with a ball speed nerf, she just wouldn't be worth me spending 6300 IP on and dedicating time to.
Some ways to deal with Xin is to just let him push your lane and keep the wave juuuust outside the turret, preventing it from pushing back. This requires some lane management experience. He has no real escapes so being overextended like that is really dangerous for him. Any reliable harass is also good as he will try and mitigate it by auto attacking minions to recover, keeping the lane pushed. You then attempt to burst him down, or just safely farm at your leisure. If you can burst him down enough, he will not be able to approach the minions to recover on fear of death.
i mean i guess he's got pretty good jungle ganks but what lane does he fit in these days? Mid and top have bullies and he isn't a ranged carry or a support so
and nothing about Xin Zhao. I'm normally not a nerf herder, but damn he needs a nerf. Can sit in lane all damn day, has a slow and a popup on short cooldowns, and does high damage.
Or maybe I'm all baloo hoo hoo because he constantly kicks my ass and the only suggestion for 'how do I beat him' is 'CC and Focus' which is the most useless suggestion in the history of ever.
Xin doesn't need nerfs >:(. As it is he's been over-nerfed. Who are you playing as when you lose to him?
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Every AP shaco I've ever seen in this game has been worthless. I'm not saying you can't pull off the build, but it's a gimmick and only works against bad teams. You have 2 AP based attacks in your basic kit( Minus ult), one of them being boxes (with a .25 ratio) you have to lure people into. I guess you could jungle, but that seems horribly inefficient when going AP, which means you're stuck in a lane as a melee trying to last hit, which leaves you pretty vulnerable as Shaco.
and nothing about Xin Zhao. I'm normally not a nerf herder, but damn he needs a nerf. Can sit in lane all damn day, has a slow and a popup on short cooldowns, and does high damage.
Or maybe I'm all baloo hoo hoo because he constantly kicks my ass and the only suggestion for 'how do I beat him' is 'CC and Focus' which is the most useless suggestion in the history of ever.
Xin doesn't need nerfs >:(. As it is he's been over-nerfed. Who are you playing as when you lose to him?
Actually I think his damage is about right, it's that his tool box is disgusting. He has two soft CCs (slow and popup), a dash, a passive/active steroid, AoE true damage, a defense boost, and a passive innate self heal. And has most of that going by level 3.
But I'll buy that he doesn't need nerfs. So how do YOU beat him? Because I can't do shit to him. (Mostly playing WW)
then late game your clone blows up for 1300 damage on their entire team
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
Survive?
Shaco has some fairly good ganking ability and poke potential.
He just can't really team fight that well no matter how you build him... (unless we go back in time to sunfire stacking!) so why not just leave that to your clone and throw daggers at peoples faces?
Every AP shaco I've ever seen in this game has been worthless. I'm not saying you can't pull off the build, but it's a gimmick and only works against bad teams. You have 2 AP based attacks in your basic kit( Minus ult), one of them being boxes (with a .25 ratio) you have to lure people into. I guess you could jungle, but that seems horribly inefficient when going AP, which means you're stuck in a lane as a melee trying to last hit, which leaves you pretty vulnerable as Shaco.
This is kind of a weird statement because it seems like you're saying that he only has two AP based attacks, not counting his ult which is another AP attack, but that makes all of his attacks AP so now I guess I'm confused!
His ult is physical damage. Thornmail still remains one of the most gold efficient counters. Warden's mail is a generally great item and frozen heart on those that enjoy it are fantastic.
and nothing about Xin Zhao. I'm normally not a nerf herder, but damn he needs a nerf. Can sit in lane all damn day, has a slow and a popup on short cooldowns, and does high damage.
Or maybe I'm all baloo hoo hoo because he constantly kicks my ass and the only suggestion for 'how do I beat him' is 'CC and Focus' which is the most useless suggestion in the history of ever.
Xin doesn't need nerfs >:(. As it is he's been over-nerfed. Who are you playing as when you lose to him?
Actually I think his damage is about right, it's that his tool box is disgusting. He has two soft CCs (slow and popup), a dash, a passive/active steroid, AoE true damage, a defense boost, and a passive innate self heal. And has most of that going by level 3.
But I'll buy that he doesn't need nerfs. So how do YOU beat him? Because I can't do shit to him. (Mostly playing WW)
So one by one.
1. He does have 2 cc's, but one requires 3 successive auto attacks and the other is only targetable on enemies.
2. His ult isn't true damage, and armor reduces its damage to you
3. Only bad xin zhao is healing through auto attacking minions.
4. He has no escapes. XZ is kind of all or nothing. You go in, fight mans, hope you kill them before they kill you, or you flash out and hope you get away.
I think that WW probably could be XZ in lane, harass with Q, heal with your passive when he try to fight you. Your first item after boots in that lane should be glacial shroud.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
See that's what I'm worried about. He's beefy as fuck sure, but he lacks a lot of the tools his role usually fills.
Solo lane WW against Xin? Why are you bothering to fight each other?
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His dash means that I can't avoid him if I want to get any farm. If he attacks, I have the choice of fighting or trying to run away. If I fight he out heals and out damages me unless I have a decent level or gold (item) advantage. If I run, I die.
The reason that I think he needs a nerf/re-work is that he doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. He is good against ranged, tanks, and melee. If you need to counter pick a specific champ in order to have a chance against any one champ, that one champ needs to be re-worked or nerfed.
1. He does have 2 cc's, but one requires 3 successive auto attacks and the other is only targetable on enemies.
2. His ult isn't true damage, and armor reduces its damage to you
3. Only bad xin zhao is healing through auto attacking minions.
4. He has no escapes. XZ is kind of all or nothing. You go in, fight mans, hope you kill them before they kill you, or you flash out and hope you get away.
I think that WW probably could be XZ in lane, harass with Q, heal with your passive when he try to fight you. Your first item after boots in that lane should be glacial shroud.
Not being nitpicky, trying to understand
1. What do you mean by 'only targetable on enemies'? I don't understand how that'd be a problem or drawback at all. What else would you target except enemies? Or was that more in reference to #4, saying that he can't use the dash portion as an escape.
2. I misread the '+15% of your max health' portion of his ult as true damage, but it sure doesn't say that when I look again. Mea Culpia
3. If you are low on hit points, why on earth would you not want to heal those? I wish they wouldn't heal up on minions, then I could wear him down and kill him.
I'll definitely look into Glacial Shroud the next time I lane against him, thanks!
Sweet sweet shen buffs. If it really is buffs on his q and w, I'm going to be having a fun ol' time. A few levels in Q starts hitting squishies pretty hard already. More damage will make it formidable. A faster channel time on his ult wouldn't go amiss either.
then late game your clone blows up for 1300 damage on their entire team
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
Survive?
Shaco has some fairly good ganking ability and poke potential.
He just can't really team fight that well no matter how you build him... (unless we go back in time to sunfire stacking!) so why not just leave that to your clone and throw daggers at peoples faces?
Every AP shaco I've ever seen in this game has been worthless. I'm not saying you can't pull off the build, but it's a gimmick and only works against bad teams. You have 2 AP based attacks in your basic kit( Minus ult), one of them being boxes (with a .25 ratio) you have to lure people into. I guess you could jungle, but that seems horribly inefficient when going AP, which means you're stuck in a lane as a melee trying to last hit, which leaves you pretty vulnerable as Shaco.
This is kind of a weird statement because it seems like you're saying that he only has two AP based attacks, not counting his ult which is another AP attack, but that makes all of his attacks AP so now I guess I'm confused!
It's a comment on his early game, which is considered fairly abysmal and probably bugged if you were to believe the forums. I think you're going to get better utility early game focusing AD, and I don't consider his ult really reliable early on. (I've never seen it do appreciable damage early.) So yes, if you can survive to get those two items and not be behind everyone else, you can do some sick AP damage, but it's damn hard to get there. Every single AP Shaco I see tries to bait box traps in the bushes and basically turns the game into an extended 4v5.
But this is my opinion of course, if it works for you do it, I only ever consider queue dodging when I see obvious trolls, or people start fighting in the lobby chat.
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he's too strong
Yeah, but you have to survive until the point you can afford the 6000 gold those 2 items will cost you.
IDK, he's a bully in lane, but he doesn't bring much later on.
Survive?
Shaco has some fairly good ganking ability and poke potential.
He just can't really team fight that well no matter how you build him... (unless we go back in time to sunfire stacking!) so why not just leave that to your clone and throw daggers at peoples faces?
Apparently he was op as fuck but I never found out how. EVERY ranked I did people banned morde or told me to ban morde. Never gave an explanation. One queue dodged when I didn't and he was last picked.
Gunblade, WotA, Rylai's, Warmog's is pretty much his build now, and he becomes a tough fucker to shut down.
Yeah, I'd like to see his shield nerfed some, at least then you could reasonably expect to whittle him down in a lane. As it is right now he can just free farm in a lane as long as he wants with nothing but a regrowth pendant.
I don't know, once he got FoN and Sunfire cape with hextech revolver/gunblade mixed in along the way he becomes really really tough to deal with. He is able to walk into 3v1's and come out with a kill. He can initiate by simply walking forward.
Shurelia had posted in the forums that they're re-working his ult. So that's probably the Taric change
Every AP shaco I've ever seen in this game has been worthless. I'm not saying you can't pull off the build, but it's a gimmick and only works against bad teams. You have 2 AP based attacks in your basic kit( Minus ult), one of them being boxes (with a .25 ratio) you have to lure people into. I guess you could jungle, but that seems horribly inefficient when going AP, which means you're stuck in a lane as a melee trying to last hit, which leaves you pretty vulnerable as Shaco.
Or maybe I'm all baloo hoo hoo because he constantly kicks my ass and the only suggestion for 'how do I beat him' is 'CC and Focus' which is the most useless suggestion in the history of ever.
It's definitely a solid solution for fixing her, damage isn't her problem, doing similar damage and being in 0 danger since her range is so ridiculous. She can sit 800+ away and QWEQ and it can be tough to dodge the second Q as it is. I certainly don't think she'd be UP with a ball speed nerf, she just wouldn't be worth me spending 6300 IP on and dedicating time to.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
She's cheap!
Xin doesn't need nerfs >:(. As it is he's been over-nerfed. Who are you playing as when you lose to him?
O rly....
Man, now she's looking a lot more attractive than Cass. I'm so conflicted!
twitch.tv/tehsloth
heh heh heh
Actually I think his damage is about right, it's that his tool box is disgusting. He has two soft CCs (slow and popup), a dash, a passive/active steroid, AoE true damage, a defense boost, and a passive innate self heal. And has most of that going by level 3.
But I'll buy that he doesn't need nerfs. So how do YOU beat him? Because I can't do shit to him. (Mostly playing WW)
This is kind of a weird statement because it seems like you're saying that he only has two AP based attacks, not counting his ult which is another AP attack, but that makes all of his attacks AP so now I guess I'm confused!
He is way too strong with all his stuns and escapes.
Wait wut?
Is that confirmed?
PSN: ChemENGR
See that's what I'm worried about. He's beefy as fuck sure, but he lacks a lot of the tools his role usually fills.
So one by one.
1. He does have 2 cc's, but one requires 3 successive auto attacks and the other is only targetable on enemies.
2. His ult isn't true damage, and armor reduces its damage to you
3. Only bad xin zhao is healing through auto attacking minions.
4. He has no escapes. XZ is kind of all or nothing. You go in, fight mans, hope you kill them before they kill you, or you flash out and hope you get away.
I think that WW probably could be XZ in lane, harass with Q, heal with your passive when he try to fight you. Your first item after boots in that lane should be glacial shroud.
his role is to kill people while being a loser
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His dash means that I can't avoid him if I want to get any farm. If he attacks, I have the choice of fighting or trying to run away. If I fight he out heals and out damages me unless I have a decent level or gold (item) advantage. If I run, I die.
The reason that I think he needs a nerf/re-work is that he doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. He is good against ranged, tanks, and melee. If you need to counter pick a specific champ in order to have a chance against any one champ, that one champ needs to be re-worked or nerfed.
Not being nitpicky, trying to understand
1. What do you mean by 'only targetable on enemies'? I don't understand how that'd be a problem or drawback at all. What else would you target except enemies? Or was that more in reference to #4, saying that he can't use the dash portion as an escape.
2. I misread the '+15% of your max health' portion of his ult as true damage, but it sure doesn't say that when I look again. Mea Culpia
3. If you are low on hit points, why on earth would you not want to heal those? I wish they wouldn't heal up on minions, then I could wear him down and kill him.
I'll definitely look into Glacial Shroud the next time I lane against him, thanks!
hit W and QQQQQQQ him and you will outsustain
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Sweet sweet shen buffs. If it really is buffs on his q and w, I'm going to be having a fun ol' time. A few levels in Q starts hitting squishies pretty hard already. More damage will make it formidable. A faster channel time on his ult wouldn't go amiss either.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
It's a comment on his early game, which is considered fairly abysmal and probably bugged if you were to believe the forums. I think you're going to get better utility early game focusing AD, and I don't consider his ult really reliable early on. (I've never seen it do appreciable damage early.) So yes, if you can survive to get those two items and not be behind everyone else, you can do some sick AP damage, but it's damn hard to get there. Every single AP Shaco I see tries to bait box traps in the bushes and basically turns the game into an extended 4v5.
But this is my opinion of course, if it works for you do it, I only ever consider queue dodging when I see obvious trolls, or people start fighting in the lobby chat.