ZvP on Shattered Temple. I check back into my main to inject and notice that, yes, I had two spires and no infestation pit. Plan went from "Let's do some light harass and get up to hive" to "Guess we're going balls out upgraded mutas." It was more effective than I thought it'd be.
There's a lot of shit you can do with Reapers that people are hardly even exploring. That's the problem with nerfing one of Terran's harassment abilities (in this case, Blue Flame) and calling it a fix for the imbalance of the race as a whole--they have like six other ways to harass opponents. There are so many tools in the Terran kit that nobody even messes around with right now.
I'm okay with Terran having the best and most diverse harassment abilities in the game, it seems to fit well with the style of the race, but then you add on the best early game all-ins/defense from all ins, and an equally strong (if not stronger) straight-up army to Protoss or Zerg, and it just winds up being a big problem.
That's why I still think the most elegant fix is to nerf MULEs and/or Marines. You have to hit the race at its core to really put a dent in the imbalance.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Hey...did anything develop with Naniwa besides him leaving Dignitas?
not so much the thors, all though they help, its the massive amount of vikings that you can produce upon sniffing a spire being out, and which counter everything Zerg in the air cost effectively.
if Z commits to maintaining air superiority, a couple of tanks and marines clean up the paltry ground army left over.
as for the Browder quote, I'm looking for it, and I thought that it was originally provide by Ked.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
Spose if you can defend it may as well put your macro hatch there.
Make hydras tier 1 and some kind of medium dps unit so I can use them to kill rocks. That is my secret agenda for hydra tier1.
also make the hrydra a 1 food unit. range upgrade doesnt unlock until lair, speed as an additional upgrade.
and no major penalty for being off creep. i sortof understand queens not being useful off creep, but hydras? I don't even...
patchnotes : remove MAJOR from penalty.
made evolution chamber a requirement for pool.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
Yeah but it is common in a long macro game to have the resources to afford it. I think a broodlord into ultra transition is going to be very strong now, the Terran will beat the broodlord wave but then get torn apart by the follow-up ultras.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
Same story as season 2. Lose my match. Still end up gold. What was that match for? What would have happened if I won?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
That match places you based on where your MMR is, because you have no average holding it down.
If you have, say, a diamond MMR, but have been in plat for so many games that you're not getting placed, that match can promote you. Or demote you, if the reverse is true.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
Yeah but it is common in a long macro game to have the resources to afford it. I think a broodlord into ultra transition is going to be very strong now, the Terran will beat the broodlord wave but then get torn apart by the follow-up ultras.
That has always been the thing to do in late-game zvt. Force an overcommit on vikings and then swap to ultras to punish it.
Note that this is primarily because if you lose air dominance, it makes no sense to try to catch up with corruptor/brood. It is better to swap with a ground army (usually with AA in the form of infestors) where your opponent is likely much weaker.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
except that banelings have a purpose, just like the scourge did, another "sappling" unit.
they are a unit that you're going to throw away. They're also the only early game unit that can take care of massive amounts of marines, zealots, AND put holes in the ubuiquitous wall-in that both P and T do every game. Their utility holds through out the game...
and if you're actually sitting on 5-6 bases, chances are, you've got the game won. It's far more difficult to get the gas needed on 3-4 which is the more likely spot that you will be at when you need them.
As opposed to Terran who can sit on one base and make a massive amount of marines, a half dozen tanks and a bunch (> 10 vikings) and the zerg has no answer.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
except that banelings have a purpose, just like the scourge did, another "sappling" unit.
they are a unit that you're going to throw away. They're also the only early game unit that can take care of massive amounts of marines, zealots, AND put holes in the ubuiquitous wall-in that both P and T do every game. Their utility holds through out the game...
and if you're actually sitting on 5-6 bases, chances are, you've got the game won. It's far more difficult to get the gas needed on 3-4 which is the more likely spot that you will be at when you need them.
As opposed to Terran who can sit on one base and make a massive amount of marines, a half dozen tanks and a bunch (> 10 vikings) and the zerg has no answer.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
Yeah but it is common in a long macro game to have the resources to afford it. I think a broodlord into ultra transition is going to be very strong now, the Terran will beat the broodlord wave but then get torn apart by the follow-up ultras.
That has always been the thing to do in late-game zvt. Force an overcommit on vikings and then swap to ultras to punish it.
after a couple losses to the mass vikings destroying my coruptor/Brood force, I think that's what I'm going to have to do... Drop the Ultra Bay as soon as I morph the GS and start crackling speed.
Still don't know how to stop the vikings from picking off OLs, even if they're huddled over queens and spores.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
except that banelings have a purpose, just like the scourge did, another "sappling" unit.
they are a unit that you're going to throw away. They're also the only early game unit that can take care of massive amounts of marines, zealots, AND put holes in the ubuiquitous wall-in that both P and T do every game. Their utility holds through out the game...
and if you're actually sitting on 5-6 bases, chances are, you've got the game won. It's far more difficult to get the gas needed on 3-4 which is the more likely spot that you will be at when you need them.
As opposed to Terran who can sit on one base and make a massive amount of marines, a half dozen tanks and a bunch (> 10 vikings) and the zerg has no answer.
There is just...so much wrong with this post.
Please expand, I'm interested. If you're nice, I'll post replays of what I'm talking about when I get home.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
Why is the terran going vikings. Don't ghosts counter both of those things?
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
Yeah but it is common in a long macro game to have the resources to afford it. I think a broodlord into ultra transition is going to be very strong now, the Terran will beat the broodlord wave but then get torn apart by the follow-up ultras.
That has always been the thing to do in late-game zvt. Force an overcommit on vikings and then swap to ultras to punish it.
And then watch your ultras evaporate to 3/3 stimmed Marauders and thors
If you're mech, you're going to counter broods with vikings. But if you wipe the map clean of Brood Lords with your Vikings and you still have 30 food of vikings (you wouldn't get that much in the first place, but whatever) you've just won the game. Your vikings go on harass and your army goes in for the kill, no zerg unit is going to come out fast enough.
If the zerg has a macro lead (as they need to win), now with faster building Ultras I think a Broodlords-->Surprise 5/3 Ultras transition will be awesome because then the Terran has like 30 food in Vikings doing nothing during battles.
Why is the terran going vikings. Don't ghosts counter both of those things?
when i get the spire, i usually go with muta harass. That usually prompts viking production. I'm also teching to Hive, and Greater Spire. When the GS is close to finished, I'll build about 10 corrs, part of which will be morphed to bros.
And that's when the large force of vikings appears. I'll have a decent sized chuck of army in slings, maybe 50, but it doesnt matter when seige tanks show up.
Fungal is still excellent. The 1.5/2 DPS loss did not suddenly make it a terrible spell. It's still amazing.
for clumps of marines, sure. even having to fungal peons multiple times isnt a huge deal. the more important thing is the extreme difficulty in grabbing a single thor, which I've had change the outcomes of battles/games before.
I don't see how mutas prompt vikings. Vikings aren't very good vs mutas and ghosts are actually amazing vs them. But more often than not it'll nudge the terran into thors.
I don't see how mutas prompt vikings. Vikings aren't very good vs mutas and ghosts are actually amazing vs them. But more often than not it'll nudge the terran into thors.
It usually prompts Vikings because, while thors are great at killing muta balls, they're fairly immobile, not quite as slow as broods, and mutas can harass where the thors arent with impunity.
I don't see how mutas prompt vikings. Vikings aren't very good vs mutas and ghosts are actually amazing vs them. But more often than not it'll nudge the terran into thors.
It usually prompts Vikings because, while thors are great at killing muta balls, they're fairly immobile, not quite as slow as broods, and mutas can harass where the thors arent with impunity.
You do not make Vikings to fight Mutas. I don't why you would think that.
Kambing said it best. Force Vikings -> Roll with 3/5 Ultras. Easy Peasy.
Yeah, mid- and late-game ghosts are an interesting, recent development in tvz. But the problem is that you can't reactively make ghosts in sufficient numbers upon scouting hive and greater spire tech. You have to be building them up in the later parts of the mid-game in order to use them as an answer to a brood army. Note that many terrans are starting to do this anyways anyways to respond to infestor play.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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still two hit workers like bosses
but has no zone control (spider mines)
and trades supremely crazy speed for cliff walking and okay speed
I'd trade Hydras for reapers any day.
Maybe even all day.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I get the impression marauder/medivac does the same job better, though.
I'm okay with Terran having the best and most diverse harassment abilities in the game, it seems to fit well with the style of the race, but then you add on the best early game all-ins/defense from all ins, and an equally strong (if not stronger) straight-up army to Protoss or Zerg, and it just winds up being a big problem.
That's why I still think the most elegant fix is to nerf MULEs and/or Marines. You have to hit the race at its core to really put a dent in the imbalance.
And has there been any update on Stephano?
ROTD submission in honor of 1.4 I guess?
Added to the OP!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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not so much the thors, all though they help, its the massive amount of vikings that you can produce upon sniffing a spire being out, and which counter everything Zerg in the air cost effectively.
if Z commits to maintaining air superiority, a couple of tanks and marines clean up the paltry ground army left over.
as for the Browder quote, I'm looking for it, and I thought that it was originally provide by Ked.
Joe's Stream.
also make the hrydra a 1 food unit. range upgrade doesnt unlock until lair, speed as an additional upgrade.
and no major penalty for being off creep. i sortof understand queens not being useful off creep, but hydras? I don't even...
patchnotes : remove MAJOR from penalty.
made evolution chamber a requirement for pool.
Joe's Stream.
that's just so god damn much gas sunk in tech paths and units that you're going to throw away...
Joe's Stream.
Yeah but it is common in a long macro game to have the resources to afford it. I think a broodlord into ultra transition is going to be very strong now, the Terran will beat the broodlord wave but then get torn apart by the follow-up ultras.
lolbanelings?
If you're sitting on 5-6 bases, you have the gas income.
If you have, say, a diamond MMR, but have been in plat for so many games that you're not getting placed, that match can promote you. Or demote you, if the reverse is true.
That has always been the thing to do in late-game zvt. Force an overcommit on vikings and then swap to ultras to punish it.
Note that this is primarily because if you lose air dominance, it makes no sense to try to catch up with corruptor/brood. It is better to swap with a ground army (usually with AA in the form of infestors) where your opponent is likely much weaker.
except that banelings have a purpose, just like the scourge did, another "sappling" unit.
they are a unit that you're going to throw away. They're also the only early game unit that can take care of massive amounts of marines, zealots, AND put holes in the ubuiquitous wall-in that both P and T do every game. Their utility holds through out the game...
and if you're actually sitting on 5-6 bases, chances are, you've got the game won. It's far more difficult to get the gas needed on 3-4 which is the more likely spot that you will be at when you need them.
As opposed to Terran who can sit on one base and make a massive amount of marines, a half dozen tanks and a bunch (> 10 vikings) and the zerg has no answer.
Joe's Stream.
Infestors.
There is just...so much wrong with this post.
after a couple losses to the mass vikings destroying my coruptor/Brood force, I think that's what I'm going to have to do... Drop the Ultra Bay as soon as I morph the GS and start crackling speed.
Still don't know how to stop the vikings from picking off OLs, even if they're huddled over queens and spores.
Joe's Stream.
two days ago, sure.
Joe's Stream.
Please expand, I'm interested. If you're nice, I'll post replays of what I'm talking about when I get home.
Joe's Stream.
Why is the terran going vikings. Don't ghosts counter both of those things?
Fungal is still excellent. The 1.5/2 DPS loss did not suddenly make it a terrible spell. It's still amazing.
And then watch your ultras evaporate to 3/3 stimmed Marauders and thors
when i get the spire, i usually go with muta harass. That usually prompts viking production. I'm also teching to Hive, and Greater Spire. When the GS is close to finished, I'll build about 10 corrs, part of which will be morphed to bros.
And that's when the large force of vikings appears. I'll have a decent sized chuck of army in slings, maybe 50, but it doesnt matter when seige tanks show up.
Joe's Stream.
for clumps of marines, sure. even having to fungal peons multiple times isnt a huge deal. the more important thing is the extreme difficulty in grabbing a single thor, which I've had change the outcomes of battles/games before.
Joe's Stream.
It usually prompts Vikings because, while thors are great at killing muta balls, they're fairly immobile, not quite as slow as broods, and mutas can harass where the thors arent with impunity.
Joe's Stream.
You do not make Vikings to fight Mutas. I don't why you would think that.
Kambing said it best. Force Vikings -> Roll with 3/5 Ultras. Easy Peasy.
followed the instructions in the relocalization thread
can finally start sc2
click on find match
it be broked
now for a lovely 9 hour download
:winky:
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra