Kind of glad how the Stephano thing turned out. Mill was talking out of their ass, but Stephano can keep playing after paying a fine.
The Patch always brings out such bm. I went on a winning streak yesterday (after a long losing streak, MMR swings weeee) winning 8 of 9. I got 5 no ggs, 1 "<name>: <name> has been defeated"/pause, 1 "you're in plat aren't you. No one 2 bases in plat" (while he was trying to 1 rax expand with 1 bunker), and 1 "cheesey fucking faggot."
Broodlords should be morphed before you get near the Terran army. Then move them along, and when the vikings come to pick them off, chain fungal them to death and laugh your way to the bank. And yes, absolutely, your army should always be with the broodlords. Never send them off by themselves.
Thanks Meeks. Looks like I've been engaging/positioning wrong and paying the price. What you're saying makes complete sense.
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Someone needs to clear this up for me. Does the game pause itself sometimes after a player leaves? Does it matter if I unpause before leaving? I know there have been bugs and fixes in the past. What's the deal with this stufF?
Kind of glad how the Stephano thing turned out. Mill was talking out of their ass, but Stephano can keep playing after paying a fine.
The Patch always brings out such bm. I went on a winning streak yesterday (after a long losing streak, MMR swings weeee) winning 8 of 9. I got 5 no ggs, 1 "<name>: <name> has been defeated"/pause, 1 "you're in plat aren't you. No one 2 bases in plat" (while he was trying to 1 rax expand with 1 bunker), and 1 "cheesey fucking faggot."
lots of players think an awful lot of themselves.
That's teh Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect. First (and hardest) thing to understand when you suck at something is that you do in fact suck at it. If you can get your head in that space, improvements quickly follow.
Someone needs to clear this up for me. Does the game pause itself sometimes after a player leaves? Does it matter if I unpause before leaving? I know there have been bugs and fixes in the past. What's the deal with this stufF?
it pops up the "paused" options screen where hitting S gets you to exit the game and hit the scoreboard. I miss it often as I'm constantly 0-S'ing, and the 0 kindof makes it go away....
Someone needs to clear this up for me. Does the game pause itself sometimes after a player leaves? Does it matter if I unpause before leaving? I know there have been bugs and fixes in the past. What's the deal with this stufF?
A lot of people accidentally misclick or mistype a pause as they quit.
Then people realized that if the winner leaves a paused game, battle.net records it as a draw. So bitter trolls started intentionally pausing every lost game before they left.
And then Blizzard fixed that bug, so no longer anything to worry about.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
So I just decided to try out a new PvZ opener that popped up on Team Liquid.
It's called the "Gateway Forge" style, and the idea is that you get 5 quick +1 zealots to pressure the zerg while securing your expansion. I made a few modifcation (faster warp gate research for one) but it seemed to work out so far. It lets me get up a really early expansion, force a bunch of roaches then you can do whatever you want. You can tell by the way the early game plays out that the build has some potential, but I definitely got lost in the midgame.
Here are some replays of it vs a Masters Zerg:
Interesting build! Will definitely try it. Although it's perhaps a sad state of affairs that it's designed to take you into the midgame even with a zerg.
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
0
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
edited September 2011
I just don't see any way that a calm reaction to that timing doesn't put the zerg waaay ahead. It might catch you off guard the first time, but it's completely transparent! Your tech is behind, you're going to have to make tons of cannons no matter how many roaches he makes, and you're not likely to do any damage (other than forcing the early warren).
If there actually is no good response to something that can never be hidden, it's broken as fuck.
Yeah, I've been crippled by a few secret zealot massings myself (Dhaaaaaaaaaal), but since then I've pretty reliably scouted it and secured a big early lead with roach defense into pressure. It's functionally indistinct from a more delayed and manageable 2-gate cheese.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Yea, it seems like it relies on the zerg being greedy, but people will figure out that the forge is a sign of aggression and not turtling. I think the build has better long-term potential with the forge as your third building by your nexus (not scouted by the zerg) or maybe doing a variation of it off a FFE.
Interesting build! Will definitely try it. Although it's perhaps a sad state of affairs that it's designed to take you into the midgame even with a zerg.
Get used to it. You shouldn't expect to be passive against a zerg for the first 10 minutes of the game and then magically be even with them. The mechanics of the two races dictate otherwise. You have to look for some early pressure to keep the zerg honest instead of immediately turtling up.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I've held off Dhal's early zealot pressure with just lings.
Even better if you intercept mid-map and micro the lings.
Even better if you just dance lings and delay the zealots even more (APM, anyone?).
Haven't seen replay, but Dhal's version was 2-gate into forge, which was easily scoutable if you're aware of the build.
He posted about the build on the forums a few hours before our game so I kept an eye out for it. ^______^'
But yeah you gotta scout it.
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
this game is so cool
I love seeing helion expand in nearly every tvz. not for the build itself but it somehow makes the matchup more fun to watch even though it seems like it would become less interesting. there's an understood back and forth to the early game of standard tvz that ... I dunno it makes it awesome in some way.
If I'm not able to significantly delay a Zerg going hatch first, and I'm FFE I'll often send 2 zealots at my opponent's nat or third. Worst case I get some scouting, best case I kill a queen and some drones and force an overreaction of lings/roaches. I've even killed a 3rd a few times when the Z had essentially nothing and was focused on not overcreating units so much that they didn;t make enough to kill it in time. Other times I've hurt the hatch enough that it was fairly easy to snipe with blink stalkers or DTs. The only time it really backfires is against low econ roach rushes.
I have an enormous amount of trouble trying to play PvZ in the mid game. Either I tech way way too hard and have no units, or I dont tech hard enough and just die later.
I have an enormous amount of trouble trying to play PvZ in the mid game. Either I tech way way too hard and have no units, or I dont tech hard enough and just die later.
That's how PvT feels as well. Protoss in general is very weak during that gap between having only Gateway units and getting higher tech up. I hope the Immortal buff helps ease the transition... Early returns are positive, at least.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
sometimes when I feel like maybe I can attack, stim, shields, couple of medivacs
and I scan and see multiple templar with 50 energy
Dear Terran players, I invented more micro for you.
When a group of marines, ghost, marauder get fungaled. Tell the medivacs to heal the ghosts. For each medivac you have a ghost that can not die to a fungal, because it gets healed faster than the fungal dps.
This effectively lengths EMP vs fungal even more, since you have to fungal the medivac to death to even touch a single ghost, without using some other unit to sacrifice on the ghost (assuming it is not covered by tanks and whatever else.)
I have not seen anyone do this ever, I bet a lot of people don't even know you can tell the medivac WHAT to heal.
Dear Terran players, I invented more micro for you.
When a group of marines, ghost, marauder get fungaled. Tell the medivacs to heal the ghosts. For each medivac you have a ghost that can not die to a fungal, because it gets healed faster than the fungal dps.
I have not seen anyone do this ever, I bet a lot of people don't even know you can tell the medivac WHAT to heal.
This is my favourite thing about the fungal change, it barely changes anything in ZvP but infesters were clearly making ZvT too Zerg favoured. :^:
Aite, 100th win this season. Think I'll call it there for the forseeable future, not really been having fun with SC2 for the past couple of weeks. 100-86, decent enough.
About the Forge/+1 zealots attack... It bears some more testing. It's definitely scoutable and the zerg can definitely hold it without actually losing workers/queens/hatches with a calm, correctresponse, but Protoss isn't as behind as it may seem for a number of reasons. You're forcing units/static defenses instead of drones, you get an early head start on an upgrade advantage, and it's pretty easy to save the zealots unless the Zerg gets fast Zergling speed and waaay overcommits to speedlings (essentially putting them all-in versus a Protoss with a forge up).
I do think it delays the Protoss expansion more than I'd like, but if we're talking about a 3gate expo map, it's really not much later than it would otherwise be.
One side perk that I like is that this is virtually the safest Protoss opening in the game against 6-9pool cheese. There's something to be said for that, as long as it doesn't auto-die to Roach/Ling all-ins, which is the biggest thing I want to test out.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Aite, 100th win this season. Think I'll call it there for the forseeable future, not really been having fun with SC2 for the past couple of weeks. 100-86, decent enough.
Aw dude, play customs and mono battles with us!
I only have 39 ladder wins this season.
Ladder isn't a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch is a measure of your ePeen.
Aite, 100th win this season. Think I'll call it there for the forseeable future, not really been having fun with SC2 for the past couple of weeks. 100-86, decent enough.
Aw dude, play customs and mono battles with us!
I only have 39 ladder wins this season.
Ladder isn't a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch is a measure of your ePeen.
Aite, 100th win this season. Think I'll call it there for the forseeable future, not really been having fun with SC2 for the past couple of weeks. 100-86, decent enough.
Aw dude, play customs and mono battles with us!
I only have 39 ladder wins this season.
Ladder isn't a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch is a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch + 30 Queens you mean.
I had a game yesterday where a Z tried to proxy hatch me (FFE) on Antiga after I blocked his nat with a pylon. I put a pylon in the smoke, a cannon in the smoke in range of his hatch and one on the extreme range of the pylon (outside the vision of the hatch) outside the smoke.
Aite, 100th win this season. Think I'll call it there for the forseeable future, not really been having fun with SC2 for the past couple of weeks. 100-86, decent enough.
Aw dude, play customs and mono battles with us!
I only have 39 ladder wins this season.
Ladder isn't a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch is a measure of your ePeen.
I would, but EU I shall instead blare kpop through my speakers to simulate the effect
About the Forge/+1 zealots attack... It bears some more testing. It's definitely scoutable and the zerg can definitely hold it without actually losing workers/queens/hatches with a calm, correctresponse, but Protoss isn't as behind as it may seem for a number of reasons. You're forcing units/static defenses instead of drones, you get an early head start on an upgrade advantage, and it's pretty easy to save the zealots unless the Zerg gets fast Zergling speed and waaay overcommits to speedlings (essentially putting them all-in versus a Protoss with a forge up).
I do think it delays the Protoss expansion more than I'd like, but if we're talking about a 3gate expo map, it's really not much later than it would otherwise be.
One side perk that I like is that this is virtually the safest Protoss opening in the game against 6-9pool cheese. There's something to be said for that, as long as it doesn't auto-die to Roach/Ling all-ins, which is the biggest thing I want to test out.
I really don't see how it could hold a roach/ling all-in. You would need to have like 5-6 cannons up before it hits to have hope of holding it.
There's something to be said for that, as long as it doesn't auto-die to Roach/Ling all-ins, which is the biggest thing I want to test out.
It wouldn't. If you save your zealots, you have a bunch of zealots with +1 sitting inside your base. The roaches are never the dangerous part of 2base roach/ling all-ins like Losira popularized. The dangerous part is the speedlings that the roaches bust your wall down and allow in, and your zealots will tear them up.
Once the lings are down, you can clean up roaches. Zealots do okay against slow roaches off creep because they can't be kited. You may lose some buildings but you should be okay as long as you didn't get caught totally by surprise.
Dhalphir on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Posts
I do enjoy the company of dairy products and other men. Thank you for noticing.
lots of players think an awful lot of themselves.
Thanks Meeks. Looks like I've been engaging/positioning wrong and paying the price. What you're saying makes complete sense.
Congrats!
Joe's Stream.
Yyyyup. That's a bro-toss alright.
That's teh Dunning-Krueger effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect. First (and hardest) thing to understand when you suck at something is that you do in fact suck at it. If you can get your head in that space, improvements quickly follow.
Joe's Stream.
it pops up the "paused" options screen where hitting S gets you to exit the game and hit the scoreboard. I miss it often as I'm constantly 0-S'ing, and the 0 kindof makes it go away....
Joe's Stream.
A lot of people accidentally misclick or mistype a pause as they quit.
Then people realized that if the winner leaves a paused game, battle.net records it as a draw. So bitter trolls started intentionally pausing every lost game before they left.
And then Blizzard fixed that bug, so no longer anything to worry about.
Interesting build! Will definitely try it. Although it's perhaps a sad state of affairs that it's designed to take you into the midgame even with a zerg.
Steam: adamjnet
If there actually is no good response to something that can never be hidden, it's broken as fuck.
Get used to it. You shouldn't expect to be passive against a zerg for the first 10 minutes of the game and then magically be even with them. The mechanics of the two races dictate otherwise. You have to look for some early pressure to keep the zerg honest instead of immediately turtling up.
Even better if you intercept mid-map and micro the lings.
Even better if you just dance lings and delay the zealots even more (APM, anyone?).
Haven't seen replay, but Dhal's version was 2-gate into forge, which was easily scoutable if you're aware of the build.
He posted about the build on the forums a few hours before our game so I kept an eye out for it. ^______^'
But yeah you gotta scout it.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I love seeing helion expand in nearly every tvz. not for the build itself but it somehow makes the matchup more fun to watch even though it seems like it would become less interesting. there's an understood back and forth to the early game of standard tvz that ... I dunno it makes it awesome in some way.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
That's how PvT feels as well. Protoss in general is very weak during that gap between having only Gateway units and getting higher tech up. I hope the Immortal buff helps ease the transition... Early returns are positive, at least.
and I scan and see multiple templar with 50 energy
sometimes I pee a little
bm
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
When a group of marines, ghost, marauder get fungaled. Tell the medivacs to heal the ghosts. For each medivac you have a ghost that can not die to a fungal, because it gets healed faster than the fungal dps.
This effectively lengths EMP vs fungal even more, since you have to fungal the medivac to death to even touch a single ghost, without using some other unit to sacrifice on the ghost (assuming it is not covered by tanks and whatever else.)
I have not seen anyone do this ever, I bet a lot of people don't even know you can tell the medivac WHAT to heal.
This is my favourite thing about the fungal change, it barely changes anything in ZvP but infesters were clearly making ZvT too Zerg favoured. :^:
I do think it delays the Protoss expansion more than I'd like, but if we're talking about a 3gate expo map, it's really not much later than it would otherwise be.
One side perk that I like is that this is virtually the safest Protoss opening in the game against 6-9pool cheese. There's something to be said for that, as long as it doesn't auto-die to Roach/Ling all-ins, which is the biggest thing I want to test out.
Aw dude, play customs and mono battles with us!
I only have 39 ladder wins this season.
Ladder isn't a measure of your ePeen.
Proxy hatch is a measure of your ePeen.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Proxy hatch + 30 Queens you mean.
I had a game yesterday where a Z tried to proxy hatch me (FFE) on Antiga after I blocked his nat with a pylon. I put a pylon in the smoke, a cannon in the smoke in range of his hatch and one on the extreme range of the pylon (outside the vision of the hatch) outside the smoke.
Oh how weI laughed
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Attendance OP.
I would, but EU
I really don't see how it could hold a roach/ling all-in. You would need to have like 5-6 cannons up before it hits to have hope of holding it.
Nice friggin digs.
InControl's room is bigger than all of the Korean team houses together.
That house is goddamn gorgeous...
It wouldn't. If you save your zealots, you have a bunch of zealots with +1 sitting inside your base. The roaches are never the dangerous part of 2base roach/ling all-ins like Losira popularized. The dangerous part is the speedlings that the roaches bust your wall down and allow in, and your zealots will tear them up.
Once the lings are down, you can clean up roaches. Zealots do okay against slow roaches off creep because they can't be kited. You may lose some buildings but you should be okay as long as you didn't get caught totally by surprise.
Unbearable.
With koreans coming to the bigger competitions it's really hard to catch up though.