[StarCraft2] Trash micro but win--is marine.

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  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    Hoz wrote:
    I checked out the PvT replays and yeah your macro is just as bad as everyone else's in plat.

    You get supply blocked, you chrono boost poorly, you maynard really bad, you're not up on constant probe production, etc. In one game I even timed how much time was wasted not researching warp gate when cyber core completed, 25 seconds. All the other stuff you listed is bad too, but your macro is also poor.

    Also, you get mad and whine about race balance when you get outplayed by a mile. Nothing to do with macro, I just wanted to point that out.

    what is maynard?

    Transferring workers from one base to another when the second completes.

  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    When you transfer probes from main to natural. The whole purpose is to create an equilibrium so you can have the produced workers from the main and the nat going to their respective mineral lines. You pull too few and end up rallying main to natural. It's not a huge thing, but getting it right means you get better income and you don't have to pay attention as much to your mineral lines.

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    Every time I see someone say their macro isn't holding them back now, all I can think about is Sylem and his 'near-perfect macro'.

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    Im going to have drunken macro pretty soon, and cringe as my apm falls to 60 again. Hopefully it will only be 2v2s with a friend thats up for tonight.

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    Even professional players who get PAID to play this game are held back by their macro.

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    mEEksa wrote:
    Every time I see someone say their macro isn't holding them back now, all I can think about is Sylem and his 'near-perfect macro'.

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    NesTea might be the only zerg in the world who does not consistently drop injects.

    Min, Losira, Dimaga, IdrA, Sen... They all seem to accidentally float energy in the midgame.

    kedinik on
    I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    I really want to see Bomber play Zerg, he basically plays as Zerg now (comes out of almost every engagement cost ineffectively but later overwhelms with macro) only he gets to do it with super Terran units.

  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    Ok. So explain to me what I did differently in these 2 games that caused me to win one and lose the other.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d24ni73jon6z0mz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?7eq54bwwry7yla4

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Alright! I'm installing a korean client of SC2.

    Applying patch 1 of 22 D:

    Edit: I'll take a look Jaziek

    Edit2: Apparently I can't patch Korean starcraft while running normal starcraft, so it will have to wait.

    Sceptre on
  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    Ok. So explain to me what I did differently in these 2 games that caused me to win one and lose the other.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d24ni73jon6z0mz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?7eq54bwwry7yla4

    Your opponent in the first game was decent. He delayed your expansion with an early push, and then crushed you because you didn't have an answer to bio (ie, you need Colossi). Your opponent in the second was awful. He move commanded his marine-heavy army into your Colossi. There's really nothing I can say about these games other than you are the new Sylem. Horrible BM, and a total inability to notice your own mistakes. Your macro could definitely be improved, and you definitely did not lose because Terran is so OP.

    Also, you should consider uploading your replays to a site like gamereplays.org. They don't spam you with ads like Mediafire does.

    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    shockingly enough, jaziek

    macro

    in the first game you:

    got supply blocked early on at critical times
    didn't add extra gateways fast enough
    didn't constantly produce workers

    and as such your army was smaller than his, so you lost

    second game you got supply blocked less, and due to you still being on so few gates for so long your army was smaller than his, he just didn't move out, and by the time he did you had completed your transition to collosus and were on a reasonable number of gateways, so your army was bigger than his

    however

    in both of these games your macro was bad

    not good, not decent, not diamond/masters level macro

    the sooner you realise this, and stop blaming micro or race imbalance or whatever other shitty excuse you have, the faster you'll improve

    (i am by no means saying i am good at this game, just that your macro is clearly what is really holding you back)

  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    Evangir wrote:
    jaziek wrote:
    Ok. So explain to me what I did differently in these 2 games that caused me to win one and lose the other.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d24ni73jon6z0mz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?7eq54bwwry7yla4

    Your opponent in the first game was decent. He delayed your expansion with an early push, and then crushed you because you didn't have an answer to bio (ie, you need Colossi). Your opponent in the second was awful. He move commanded his marine-heavy army into your Colossi. There's really nothing I can say about these games other than you are the new Sylem. Horrible BM, and a total inability to notice your own mistakes. Your macro could definitely be improved, and you definitely did not lose because Terran is so OP.

    Also, you should consider uploading your replays to a site like gamereplays.org.

    And how was I supposed to have colossus up at that time after my expansion had been delayed?



    They don't spam you with ads like Mediafire does.

    get adblock.

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    Evangir wrote:
    jaziek wrote:
    Ok. So explain to me what I did differently in these 2 games that caused me to win one and lose the other.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d24ni73jon6z0mz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?7eq54bwwry7yla4

    Your opponent in the first game was decent. He delayed your expansion with an early push, and then crushed you because you didn't have an answer to bio (ie, you need Colossi). Your opponent in the second was awful. He move commanded his marine-heavy army into your Colossi. There's really nothing I can say about these games other than you are the new Sylem. Horrible BM, and a total inability to notice your own mistakes. Your macro could definitely be improved, and you definitely did not lose because Terran is so OP.

    Also, you should consider uploading your replays to a site like gamereplays.org.

    And how was I supposed to have colossus up at that time after my expansion had been delayed?



    They don't spam you with ads like Mediafire does.

    get adblock.

    trust me, and i had to learn the hard way, its almost always your macro. almost always.

  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    You really shouldn't tell people who are trying to help you improve to inconvenience themselves even further by downloading some useless addon because you don't want to meet them halfway when you're the one asking for advice.

    Long sentence.

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    I saw the first game and I can say this right away.
    Your build is a little weird, you 12 gate, then put up the cyber a little late. Your gas goes up and goes unnoticed for way too long. Warp gate started late.
    You should have been able to get gate, cyber, warp gate, robo, then a second gate way earlier.

    Your force fields where decent, but if you would have warped in more zealots instead of stalkers against that many marauders, I'm pretty sure you could win with just ff.'s and a guardian shield.

    I would have force fielded in that entire army in front of me, and be zealot heavy with guardian shield, then focus my immortals on marauders.

    76561197968655073.png
  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    Lilnoobs wrote:
    You really shouldn't tell people who are trying to help you improve to inconvenience themselves even further by downloading some useless addon because you don't want to meet them halfway when you're the one asking for advice.

    Long sentence.

    Biosys wrote:
    shockingly enough, jaziek

    macro

    in the first game you:

    got supply blocked early on at critical times
    didn't add extra gateways fast enough
    didn't constantly produce workers

    and as such your army was smaller than his, so you lost

    second game you got supply blocked less, and due to you still being on so few gates for so long your army was smaller than his, he just didn't move out, and by the time he did you had completed your transition to collosus and were on a reasonable number of gateways, so your army was bigger than his

    however

    in both of these games your macro was bad

    not good, not decent, not diamond/masters level macro

    the sooner you realise this, and stop blaming micro or race imbalance or whatever other shitty excuse you have, the faster you'll improve

    (i am by no means saying i am good at this game, just that your macro is clearly what is really holding you back)

    I don't see how micro is a shitty excuse. That terran clearly lost the game because of micro, not because my macro was better than his. If it had been better, he would have won.

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    hrmmmmmmmm

    get 300ms to the kr server

    is this playable?

    (probably australians who can answer this)

  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    Evangir wrote:
    jaziek wrote:
    Ok. So explain to me what I did differently in these 2 games that caused me to win one and lose the other.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?d24ni73jon6z0mz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?7eq54bwwry7yla4

    Your opponent in the first game was decent. He delayed your expansion with an early push, and then crushed you because you didn't have an answer to bio (ie, you need Colossi). Your opponent in the second was awful. He move commanded his marine-heavy army into your Colossi. There's really nothing I can say about these games other than you are the new Sylem. Horrible BM, and a total inability to notice your own mistakes. Your macro could definitely be improved, and you definitely did not lose because Terran is so OP.

    Also, you should consider uploading your replays to a site like gamereplays.org.

    And how was I supposed to have colossus up at that time after my expansion had been delayed?



    They don't spam you with ads like Mediafire does.

    get adblock.

    The answer is better macro. You were floating money for that entire game. I'm sure a Protoss player could give some more specific tips, but you could easily have produced Zealots instead of Stalkers, and put that gas into rushing for Colossi, or something along those lines. Watch the game again, and count the supply blocks, idle gateways/robo bays/nexii, and time how long you have a resource surplus above 200/200 min/gas. Those are opportunities for you to improve your macro.

    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    micro is a shitty excuse when your macro is to blame

    better macro will win you sooooo many more games than better micro

    you need to actually work at improving said macro, rather than whining at your opponents about whatever

  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Listen guys. I should be Grandmasters because my mother loves me. If I'm not, it can't possibly be my fault and any "mistakes" you're seeing are hallucinations.

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I only get on okay with my mom so I've been losing a lot of games lately.

    edit: really this game needs to be more fun when you're losing, I can happily lose at quake all day

    815165 on
  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    Jesus christ.

    I'm not saying that I should be in fucking masters.

    I'm even saying that my macro is good.

    I am just saying, that there are OTHER factors, which are JUST as important.

    You want to tell me, that in that first replay set I posted, I lost the game where my FFE got baneling busted because of macro? That I lost to a cannon rush because of macro? That I didn't hold 2gate zealots because LOL MACRO!!!!

    Whatever.

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    I am just saying, that there are OTHER factors, which are JUST as important.

    Yeah. And you're wrong. And when that's pointed out you ignore it and whine.

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • GriswoldGriswold that's rough, buddyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    815165 wrote:
    I only get on okay with my mom so I've been losing a lot of games lately.

    edit: really this game needs to be more fun when you're losing, I can happily lose at quake all day

    that's the problem with a game where a) the matchmaking system works hard to pit you against people who should beat you roughly 50% of the time, and b) your losses are your fault, always, all the time. it's a tough thing to lose game after game to your mistakes alone.

    EDIT: also, you have to invest so much focus into this game that it really hurts to lose. quake (and first-person shooters in general) don't require you to be nearly as mentally present.

    Griswold on
    FFXIV: Brick Shizzhouse - Zalera (Crystal)
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  • EvangirEvangir Registered User regular
    jaziek wrote:
    Jesus christ.

    I'm not saying that I should be in fucking masters.

    I'm even saying that my macro is good.

    I am just saying, that there are OTHER factors, which are JUST as important.

    You want to tell me, that in that first replay set I posted, I lost the game where my FFE got baneling busted because of macro? That I lost to a cannon rush because of macro? That I didn't hold 2gate zealots because LOL MACRO!!!!

    Whatever.

    A big part of surviving cheese is having a good, perfectly executed build order. That's macro. Unit control is important too, but if you don't have as much stuff because your build is sub-optimal (either the BO itself is bad or you're executing it poorly), better micro won't make much of a difference.

    PSN/XBL/STEAM: Evangir - Starcraft 2: Bulwark.955 - Origin: Bulwark955 - Diablo 3: Bulwark#1478
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    If you do things like not research warp gates for 25 seconds after cyber core completes, you're going to lose to early pressure a lot.

  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    core usually finishes while my focus is on my scouting probe. I always miss it. Bad thing is bad, yes.

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • shwaipshwaip Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Proper walling/simcity is very important pvz and will stop a lot of bane busts/early pressure. For example your PvZ on abyssal, the zerg didn't bust/pressure, but if he had, you would have been done with that wall. Some people consider that to be part of macro, some don't...but you need to do that better as well.

    shwaip on
  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    Do people still use YABOT to train their build orders? Or is there something better now?

    Also, I will go filthy Terran. They are kinda fun.
    So since I just want to focus on macro, I need one build order per matchup to use.
    You guys decide which ones!

    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited December 2011

    My latency to korea is pretty much the same as my latency to NA.

    Very excited about this.

    Sceptre on
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    Evangir wrote:
    jaziek wrote:
    Jesus christ.

    I'm not saying that I should be in fucking masters.

    I'm even saying that my macro is good.

    I am just saying, that there are OTHER factors, which are JUST as important.

    You want to tell me, that in that first replay set I posted, I lost the game where my FFE got baneling busted because of macro? That I lost to a cannon rush because of macro? That I didn't hold 2gate zealots because LOL MACRO!!!!

    Whatever.

    A big part of surviving cheese is having a good, perfectly executed build order. That's macro. Unit control is important too, but if you don't have as much stuff because your build is sub-optimal (either the BO itself is bad or you're executing it poorly), better micro won't make much of a difference.

    your "standard" BOs should have plenty of opportunity to react to cheese/early pressure. sure, scouting and recognizing what attacks are coming is part of it, but if your open was executed correctly, you should be able to respond and react appropriately. hey, he put up 2 gates before core or gas... hrm.... welp, better prepare for the zealots. I FFE'd and he brought the bust, or was he bringing the bust before you FFE'd. Banes nests don't exactly go up in an instant, and there are plenty of tells, such as not removing drones from gas on an apparent sling expo.

    Or, did he see your FFE, was able to switch into bane bust mode, and then ram it through your FFE wall? Was he able to beat you with 5 banes? bad wall. bad macro.

  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    Klyka wrote:
    Do people still use YABOT to train their build orders? Or is there something better now?

    Also, I will go filthy Terran. They are kinda fun.
    So since I just want to focus on macro, I need one build order per matchup to use.
    You guys decide which ones!

    TvP - 1/1/1 Helion drop into mmm+ghosts
    TvZ - bunker/helion/banshee rush, just toss a three sided coin before every game.
    TvT - ???

    76561197968655073.png
  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    Or even worse TvP is that fast ghost build :S

    76561197968655073.png
  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    yabot is crazy outdated now, but there isn't really a replacement for it in terms of being able to do bo's again and again

    it's fine if you're using the freestyle build option

  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    Can you not add your own builds to yabot?

  • BiosysBiosys Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    yeah if you play through the build in the freestyle option yabot records it

    http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287794

    this is pretty good too

    an overlay over the screen that can have any build order you want in there

    Biosys on
  • jaziekjaziek Bad at everything And mad about it.Registered User regular
    shwaip wrote:
    Some people consider that to be part of macro, some don't...but you need to do that better as well.

    At this point I am kind of confused as to what doesn't fall under "macro".

    Steam ||| SC2 - Jaziek.377 on EU & NA. ||| Twitch Stream
  • RofflorRofflor Adventurer Registered User regular
    All the things i said except the unit warp in was macro, and pretty important ones.
    It's what we all say, all our macro is shit.

    76561197968655073.png
  • badger2dbadger2d San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    edited December 2011
    It's better for a Zerg to err on the side of overdroning than to make more army than you need early in the game.

    Is that a true statement or am I making it up? I think somebody who was a better player said it to me once. But it's so easy to slip back to cutting lots of drones for army, because overdroning losses just feel the worst somehow. Great, I guessed wrong on when you would attack, and I literally have no way to fight back. GG I guess? I feel like I completely wasted 5 minutes of my life every time that happens.

    badger2d on
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