I am watching a korean pro trying mech units in TvP and I have to pee really bad right now. I am in the worst position.
it only works if you harass the economy well with banshees.
That 2-2-2 he did?
I've never tried it. But having tried the cloaked banshee into Thor rush, I don't think banshee harass is that crucial. But there's a big difference between not doing economic damage with one port cloak banshee and not doing any with two port banshee, which is basically the circumstance supernova was in. Not only that, but they didn't do that much in the battle also. Half the first battle they were running back.
Also he went combat shield before stim and stim wasn't finished when the first battle started. Reason for why you would go combat shield before stim in TvP is beyond me. Especially when he planned on getting most of his marines into bunkers.
I am watching a korean pro trying mech units in TvP and I have to pee really bad right now. I am in the worst position.
it only works if you harass the economy well with banshees.
That 2-2-2 he did?
I've never tried it. But having tried the cloaked banshee into Thor rush, I don't think banshee harass is that crucial. But there's a big difference between not doing economic damage with one port cloak banshee and not doing any with two port banshee, which is basically the circumstance supernova was in. Not only that, but they didn't do that much in the battle also. Half the first battle they were running back.
Also he went combat shield before stim and stim wasn't finished when the first battle started. Reason for why you would go combat shield before stim in TvP is beyond me. Especially when he planned on getting most of his marines into bunkers.
when mma did something similar recently he harassed a bunch
he also only did I think 2/1/1 and hit faster so it's certainly different
So I just watched http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-412-p1-zvp-roach-free-zeniownage-5927675
and oh my god. everything makes sense. I had been trying to make use of stephano's upgraded ling infestor build in zvp, but some of my opponents would just get +1 zealots and crush me. now I have a plan. To make it out of the gate and be alive with 3 bases. Yay. In other news, Starcraft is the best. carry on.
From my experience it seems like video is up within 2-3 hours most days, sometimes sooner.
This is going to be a very productive morning.
I both hate and love this thread/community for introducing me to SC2 VODs and one day getting me fired.
Edit: Noob question for @Invictus re: league setup (original post in spoilers)
The tiered brackets mean that depending on player availability, team matches won't have a set number of 1v1 matches, but rather whoever is available to play for each team that week, right? So a team match could be determined by a best-of-11, or a best-of-3? But the team will still just register 1 team win for the week?
If you're interested in a PA 1v1-style team league, sign up here. Dover, please put this link in the OP (and possibly the following description of the league).
This team league will consist of four teams, playing each other in a round-robin format over three weeks, followed by a one week playoff, with the team with the best record and second-best record playing each other, and the other two teams playing for bronze.
Format will be individual matchups of Bo3s, with the competitors in each matchup being set ahead of time (proleague style, not winner's league or GSTL-style, for those of you that know what that means). Each matchup will be between players who are relatively close in skill: to be specific, all competitors will be ranked in three brackets. The highest bracket is GM through diamond, the next bracket is plat/gold, the last bracket is silver/bronze. Each competitor will always (with optional exceptions) face someone from their bracket. Bracket placements will be set at the beginning of the season for the entire season, so if a player is promoted from silver to gold during the season, they do not change brackets. Each team will have a similar number of players in each bracket to the other teams, though each team may have (for example) more GM through diamond players than silver/bronze players. The amount of matchups in each team versus team match will vary from week to week, based on who is available to play.
A more detailed explanation of the (relatively complex) setup follows, in spoiler.
At the beginning of each week, each team captain tells the person running the league how many players on that team can play that week, and which bracket those players are in. For each match between two teams, the league coordinator looks at the availability report for each team and tells each team how many Bo3s their match will involve, based on how many good matchups can be made from the available players.
Complication: Only an even number of good matchups can be made. Solution: Have an ace match, if necessary. The ace match consists of a player from each team in the highest bracket in which a matchup was played in that set.
Complication: A minimal number of good matchups are available, given the two availability reports. Solution: Matchups between people in different groups are optional, for the teams. If both teams decide that they'd like to have a match between two people who are in separate groups, they can. The league coordinator is responsible for putting out some plausible optional matchups.
Example follows, in spoiler.
Example: (example done entirely with variables, I know it's hard to read, just bear with me)
Team Alpha plays Team Beta.
Team Alpha has the following availability:
Player A, top group (GM)
Player B, top group (masters)
Player C, mid group, plat
Player D, mid group, gold
Player E, low group, bronze
Team Beta has the following availability.
Player 1, top group, GM
Player 2, mid group, gold
Player 3, low group, silver
Player 4, low group, bronze
Player 5, low group, bronze
League coordinator says, here are your matches for the week.
A v 1
C vs 2
E vs 4
optional: D vs 3
They play out the week, and as a matter of fact, A beats 1, C beats 2, 4 beats E, and after both teams agree to play the optional match, 3 takes the upset victory over that snotty goldy D. So they're tied at 2-2. They play an ace match. Since a top bracket matchup was played (A vs 1), the ace match is a matchup of two top bracket players. Unfortunately, A can't make it to the ace match, so B plays for him instead (still a top group player), but B falls to 1 in the ace match. Beta wins, 3-2.
The reason I structure things like this is to make the league resilient both to variance in week-to-week participation and to people who stop showing up entirely. I think, given the number of people involved, these things will just happen and we ought to play for them. Moreover, this is a pretty short-term plan, with just four weeks of competition. If we think changes should be made to the structure, they can be made after the first season.
I have a couple of captains, but I am still looking for two more! PM me if you're interested!
tiballagher on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Yeh... Looking at that makes me believe that Protoss is kinda broken badly... I hope that the solution will be to buff Protoss a bit, and not try to nerf the other two...
Yeh... Looking at that makes me believe that Protoss is kinda broken badly... I hope that the solution will be to buff Protoss a bit, and not try to nerf the other two...
winrates look pretty reasonable in KR. It'll be interesting to see what happens with February stats
DRG says whether it's PvZ or PvT, the deadliness of immortals depend entirely on the 'skill' of forcefields. If the toss fails with FFs, P loses, if not, P wins.
It can go either way in the MU, but games are typically determined at very precise moments that can be frustrating to lose as a result on either side.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I think ff is one part of that. But the MU doesn't have the same feel as zvt where it's scrappy, dirty, and it's not clear who's going to win until near the end.
Many games are determined by that "one engagement" that goes either way due to high skill abilities like ff. I think this is partially due to both sides not yet being comfortable with harassment in the MU (i.e., drop and prism play). But I'm still confident there's still room for growth there without outside intervention.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I frankly don't care if Nestea and DRG share the same sentiments, I don't think PvZ is Protoss favoured and the stats clearly back me up on that. ZvP has always been DRG's and Idra's worst MU anywho, so I would take what they say with a grain of salt.
i think that may be the entire reason that i switched away from Protoss. If you can't FF with complete accuracy, while keeping near-perfect macro skills as well, you're kinda boned. Your early game army doesnt stand well against anything from either Z or T, unless you can cut the forces in half, protect your own ranged from their melee, and know when to pop GS.
I would love to see the sentry removed, and the rest of the gateway units (move the imm back to the gateway) buffed to make up for it. Hell, remove the warpin mechanic or rework it so that you don't have to cripple the most expensive, least cost effective army in the game to make up for being able to warp in wherever you can get power to. maybe force it to only warp in on power-connected warpgates.... kindof like spreading creep, but instead of one proxy pylon, you'd have to run a line, yeh, it would be fragile, but being able to insta warpin reinforcements is a helluva mechanic. if the gateway units were stronger, would you give up the warpgates?
beats me how to make Protoss stand shoulder to should with the other races. Early game, large amounts of relatively weak units are hard for protoss to handle, unless all you build is stalkers, their army is fairly slow even with warpins, so harass is hard to deal with.
Dunno what the "fix" should be, but Protoss does need a buff, or a total rework.
Maybe there's some kindof master plan where all the races are balanced out by the third release, but that would just be stupid, and with whats being changed in HOTS is any indication, I'm not sure there is a "plan".
Posts
I've never tried it. But having tried the cloaked banshee into Thor rush, I don't think banshee harass is that crucial. But there's a big difference between not doing economic damage with one port cloak banshee and not doing any with two port banshee, which is basically the circumstance supernova was in. Not only that, but they didn't do that much in the battle also. Half the first battle they were running back.
Also he went combat shield before stim and stim wasn't finished when the first battle started. Reason for why you would go combat shield before stim in TvP is beyond me. Especially when he planned on getting most of his marines into bunkers.
I have a perfectly viable transition into bawling my eyes out about how T/P are OP.
when mma did something similar recently he harassed a bunch
he also only did I think 2/1/1 and hit faster so it's certainly different
liked him so much in those first few team leagues
Held a 1 1 1 after hellions had already wrecked his econ.
supernova really liking the aggression today. I can understand why but it makes for ... lots of losses
edit - nice trick by supernova, not sure if he needed it but it's smart
and oh my god. everything makes sense. I had been trying to make use of stephano's upgraded ling infestor build in zvp, but some of my opponents would just get +1 zealots and crush me. now I have a plan. To make it out of the gate and be alive with 3 bases. Yay. In other news, Starcraft is the best. carry on.
so, no more. whenever I'm playing this game, I'm laddering (besides PA stuff). end o story.
Zerg can't beat Protoss.
Steam ID
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/vod/66853
From my experience it seems like video is up within 2-3 hours most days, sometimes sooner.
This is going to be a very productive morning.
Steam ID
Those are all bad protoss man, don't you understand?
Edit: Noob question for @Invictus re: league setup (original post in spoilers)
The tiered brackets mean that depending on player availability, team matches won't have a set number of 1v1 matches, but rather whoever is available to play for each team that week, right? So a team match could be determined by a best-of-11, or a best-of-3? But the team will still just register 1 team win for the week?
This sounds like a really good setup.
that ludicrous
edit - protoss winning tvp for first time in a year
I laughed. Holy shit.
Yeh... Looking at that makes me believe that Protoss is kinda broken badly... I hope that the solution will be to buff Protoss a bit, and not try to nerf the other two...
Joe's Stream.
winrates look pretty reasonable in KR. It'll be interesting to see what happens with February stats
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308373#8
My opinion? Essentially what DRG said:
It can go either way in the MU, but games are typically determined at very precise moments that can be frustrating to lose as a result on either side.
Many games are determined by that "one engagement" that goes either way due to high skill abilities like ff. I think this is partially due to both sides not yet being comfortable with harassment in the MU (i.e., drop and prism play). But I'm still confident there's still room for growth there without outside intervention.
i think that may be the entire reason that i switched away from Protoss. If you can't FF with complete accuracy, while keeping near-perfect macro skills as well, you're kinda boned. Your early game army doesnt stand well against anything from either Z or T, unless you can cut the forces in half, protect your own ranged from their melee, and know when to pop GS.
I would love to see the sentry removed, and the rest of the gateway units (move the imm back to the gateway) buffed to make up for it. Hell, remove the warpin mechanic or rework it so that you don't have to cripple the most expensive, least cost effective army in the game to make up for being able to warp in wherever you can get power to. maybe force it to only warp in on power-connected warpgates.... kindof like spreading creep, but instead of one proxy pylon, you'd have to run a line, yeh, it would be fragile, but being able to insta warpin reinforcements is a helluva mechanic. if the gateway units were stronger, would you give up the warpgates?
beats me how to make Protoss stand shoulder to should with the other races. Early game, large amounts of relatively weak units are hard for protoss to handle, unless all you build is stalkers, their army is fairly slow even with warpins, so harass is hard to deal with.
Dunno what the "fix" should be, but Protoss does need a buff, or a total rework.
Maybe there's some kindof master plan where all the races are balanced out by the third release, but that would just be stupid, and with whats being changed in HOTS is any indication, I'm not sure there is a "plan".
Joe's Stream.