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Suggestions for homeopathic medicine responses
Lavender Gooms
Tiny BatRegistered User regular
Tiny BatRegistered User regular
So my mom has been having knee problems, and she went to an acupuncturist, which seems to have helped with the sharp pains she had been having. Or at least it coincided with the pain lessening. Separate from that she just found out she has osteoporosis. I'm not sure what other treatments or medication she's getting, but just today she went and got a homeopathic bone density treatment. I tried the usual "it's basically just water, they dilute it so much there's essentially none of the original ingredient left, and that ingredient probably wouldn't have helped anyway" but i'm not too good at articulating this sort of thing.
What sorts of information would anyone recommend I pass on to her to inform her about this stuff? I know there are videos out there and some Penn and Teller's BULLSHIT things, but i'm afraid those sorts of things might just get dismissed out of hand before she watches them in their entirety.
What sorts of information would anyone recommend I pass on to her to inform her about this stuff? I know there are videos out there and some Penn and Teller's BULLSHIT things, but i'm afraid those sorts of things might just get dismissed out of hand before she watches them in their entirety.
Lavender Gooms on
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Homeopathic is all natural remedies. They don't use the everyday antibiotics or treatments. It includes things like accupuncture, massage therapy, herbal remedies, and the like.
People believe in it and if it helps her and she has the finances to do it, then all the power to her. Sometimes in medicine it is more treating the brain than the problem.
I work in the OR. There are people all the time complaining about pain in their knee, nothing helps it, etc. We will go in and scope it. Do absolutely nothing in terms of repair, trimming, or removal because there is nothing like that to do. We put the scope in and look around, run some saline through it and close up. They come to see us to have their stitches removed and we are miracle workers. Knee pain is gone, never felt better, blah blah blah. Did the salt water running in the joint treat their pain, most likely no. Did the fact we washed out the knee and they're feeling better make the happy, sure.
If it helps her, let her be.
Of course if she has osteoporosis that is dumb.
It's hard to convince people that homeopathy doesn't work. Make sure she goes to a doc and gets some regular calcium and vitamine D (and TSH if the doc says it). You could explain about how bones work (it's relatively straight-forward) and how whatever she's getting in that homeopathic stuff could not possibly help.
If you got the time and she's willing you can give her a few journals or articles about journals. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeopathy is a good starting point.
People usually clam up when you go judgmental so keep that in mind to keep the avenue open.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
For your consideration: we define medicine as the parts of homeopathy that work.
Sorry to be blunt, but this is just wrong. Homeopathy is about using incredibly diluted "elements" to create a "cure." It is a subset of "Alternative Medicine," and things like acupuncture, massage, herbals, are also alternative medicines.
Homeopathic is the quackiest of the bunch, in my opinion, and it is dangerous to the user because it predates on their health. Someone who uses homeopathy is spending money and time on a cure that will do nothing beyond placebo, and in many cases will cause a delay in treatment that may actually cure them.
Just a few months ago, Steve Jobs died and there were tons of articles written about how the man essentially shortened his life by seeking alternative medicine for his ailments rather than simply seeing a real doctor for treatment. He engaged in quackery when what he needed at the time was a cancer-free liver.
If the OPs mom has arthritis and osteoporosis, there are medical treatments that actually work available. There is excellent arthritis medication available that will eliminate pain and swelling, giving sufferers a normal life. Unfortunately, for most people who seek out alternative medicine, they fear being branded a "Patient" and taking pills, so they look for something different.
OP, I suggest sitting your mom down and telling her that going to an actual doctor, at a hospital or clinic, will get her down the path towards actual relief, as the only medicine doctors prescribe are those that have been thoroughly tested. Tell her that acupuncture doesn't work for everyone, and that looking for herbal remedies is a little silly because doctors may prescribe the same basic ingredient but without the extra stuff. You can tell her about Willow Bark, which contains aspirin, as an example. She could chew willow bark and make willow bark tea, which would get her a random dose of aspirin along with whatever else may be good or bad in the bark, or she could simply take a pill of aspirin, which is simply the active ingredient condensed down.
Many people don't necessarily respond to "empirical evidence" but give a good story or anecdote and they're all ears. What's the Harm.net provides that.
Not all alternative medicine is created equal. Some of it is better regulated than others. Some of it is more or less effective than others. Some practitioners are caring, intelligent people with years of experience, others are cynical quacks out to fleece you, and many others are well meaning but delusional folks with a limited understanding of how the human body actually works. And it can be awfully hard to tell the difference between them. Big box of chocolates that, except some of them have poisonous mercury inside.
Alternative medicine is no substitute for an actual medical doctor's care. Also, what EggyToast said.
Anecdote time!
I once went to a massage therapist for a nasty crick in the neck that was ruining my weekend. She was experienced and kind, and I felt much better after. The next day it was back and I had a mild fever. She fixed me up again but told me it seemed worse than the day before and that was not normal. The next day I was in agony and cried like a baby on the table. She told me to go to the ER. I resisted. Later that evening I couldn't keep any food down, only wanted to be horizontal, and I was crazy burning up, so my friends overruled my objections and got me to the hospital. Turned out that the root cause of my muscle aches was a rather severe UTI. And there ain't nothing in the world can knock that out except crazy potent antibiotics.
I don't blame the MT. She was wonderful and I'd gladly see her again. But she was not an MD and she had no way of knowing what was really wrong with me. I'll be quicker to see an actual Dr. next time.
The point being is that Alternative Medicine cannot and should not be expected to replace modern scientific medicine. Sure, acupuncture can be an effective method of pain relief. Most of my fiance's patients are people for whom conventional painkillers do nothing and/or would be harmful for whatever reason. Acupuncture and/or massage often works for these people, but to be perfectly frank nobody really truly knows why. It also does not work for everyone. And just because acupuncture seems to work for your mom does not in any way mean that homeopathy will as well.
My fiance goes to a Dr. when he's sick. He wouldn't be caught dead in a homeopathic practitioner's office. He thinks they are a rotten moldy apple in the orchard of alternative medicine, and he would be greatly offended to be put in a barrel with them. So there's that.
homeopathy is the one you want to run away from without asking any questions
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The problem with this site is that a lot of the stories amount to little more than "Emily took some sugar pills and the next day as she was crossing the street BAM hit by a bus. If she'd been looking across the street instead of taking those sugar pills each morning she'd still be alive today."
There are better sites out there.
You could also show her James "The Amazing" Randi taking whole bottles of homeopathic sleeping pills.
Honestly, I think a lot of homeopathic patients don't know about, and don't really understand, the theory behind homeopathy. (In much the same way, a lot of patients don't know about, and don't really understand, the theories behind conventional medicine.) Trying to explain it is ineffective - you're asking them to evaluate a (pseudo)scientific model that they don't believe they have the expertise to evaluate. You might as well be asking them to choose between two competing models of quantum mechanics.
Sometimes, the best thing you can do is urge her to see homeopathic medicine as complimentary, and to see a conventional doctor at the same time.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Well, I did say that this was merely to provide the OP with stories and anecdotes... so yes, I am aware there are "better" sites out there. With that said, there are people that are more compelled by a "good" story than by scientific evidence. Also, I've read many of the articles on the site and I'd describe them more along the lines of "Emily took some sugar pills to cure her treatable cancer instead of seeking help from conventional medicine. If she'd gone to see an oncologist instead of taking those sugar pills each morning she'd still be alive today."
I really hope that's not the case, but who knows.
I've read them too, and if you think critically about the way those stories read, you'll see I really wasn't exaggerating as much as you seem to think. A deception is a deception, and they often don't do much better than the activities they decry. That sort of thing doesn't do anybody any favors.
If her placebos or treatments actually relieve pain, and they aren't interfering with traditional treatment, and not causing financial stress, let her keep doing what she's doing.
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/full-frontal-psychology/how-do-placebos-relieve-pain.html
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I have back pain from a weird muscle thing that occurs in my sleep. I wake up and am in pain, but once I move around a bit it gets better. Sometimes it's so bad I'm unable to go back to sleep.
So I went to the normal doctor, and she said "it's just posture, go to a physical therapist." At the therapist, I received massage and a list of exercises. I did them, and my pain improved. I also take ibuprofen now before sleeping. My pain is dramatically reduced.
It's not that alternative medicines don't work at all, but rather that there's a lot going on in the body. I have an uncle-in-law who woke up with neck pain and thought it was just a muscle thing, and turns out he had a slipped disc that would've paralyzed him if he had encountered a shock that slipped it further. They scheduled surgery 24 hours later and kept him at the hospital. If he had gone to a chiropractor, he may be paralyzed. Another friend of mine had some back stiffness and went to a chiropractor -- the guy gave him a big bear hug to crack his back, and my friend blacked out. 30 seconds later he came to and realized that chiropractors were idiots.
Yet yes, in my case, my doctor "prescribed" massage and physical therapy, and it worked. I'm still amazingly skeptical of acupuncture, but a good doctor will know when something is minor and can be treated simply, and will also determine when something is actually seriously wrong with you. If you have severe chronic pain, go to a doctor. If the doctor can't help, then find another doctor and research alternatives, too. My ex-mother-in-law experienced sudden chronic pain and was debilitated, and it turns out she had rheumatoid arthritis. Humera cures her 100%, but it took a lot of visits to different doctors to find one who believed she had suddenly developed it at age 55.
By and large, I think people are concerned about two main things:
1. People who use non traditional medicine as a substitute for professional medical care. Alternative treatments are fine, so long as you continue to keep doctors in the loop.
2. People falling for cons. There are alternative treatment providers who are legitimately concerned about providing relief, and there are people looking to take all of your money. And especially when someone's desperate to try anything, that makes the person quite vulnerable.
Well, the main concerns are the exceptions you mentioned. If a sugar-pill makes the pain go away and doesn't cost much, by all means, buy the sugar-pill! At worse it'll do nothing and you'll be out a few dollars. However if it costs alot, and you're not quite sure what's in the pill or treatment, that's worrisome. Overall, I'd say you're one of those with the right mindset about alternative treatments, but not everyone is so rational about them or approaches them in the same way.
Now, granted, I was having serious pain due to a muscle spasm in my own shoulder some time back (most likely due to being a poor college student and not using a chair) and when I went to a physiotherapist up where I live right now (Canada) it kind of annoyed me that instead of just massaging the stupid knot out or anything like that which would conceivably directly relieve the knot, the guy mostly just hooked me up to what I presume from googling was some ultrasound massage machine for a while and left it at that. Twice, since I told him the problem was still there after the first time (though the worst pain had subsided for the moment) and figured he'd do something different. My bad on that one... I was able to get temporary relief and all, but the basic problem is still there and the pain has come back over time so I'm not too happy with that guy (and he didn't give me any recommendations for how to possibly keep it from getting worse again either). My mom's physical therapist in the States, on the other hand, was waaayyy more helpful (gave her plenty of exercises to do on a regular basis) and probably knows what she's doing a thousand times better than that guy.
Anyway, obviously the whole sugar pill and herbal medicine and whatnot stuff isn't medically supported and can actually be dangerous depending on what's in the pill. I agree with having her see a regular doctor as well (if only for your sake) if explaining to her what the deal is with homeopathy doesn't convince her. Hopefully she doesn't believe too religiously in the stuff just yet, that's your best bet.
EDIT: Oh yeah, you should also stress to her that none of said herbal treatment stuff is indicated to help osteoporosis so for that part she MUST be getting some proven medicine from a real doctor to stop its progression. But do be warned that stuff does pop up if you google for that sort of thing... I just hope she doesn't know about it.
I'm pretty sure massage and physical therapy are treated as acknowledged treatments. The stretching and massaging of muscles is a verified treatment. I think it's more Chiropractic care that's treated as an alternative medicine, when you're getting right into bone manipulation. [/quote]