This is the age of the gamer funding the games and then still having to buy the game! :P
It's like the pre-order from hell.
I personally can't wait to see the shitstorm that ensues when a developer takes everybody's money via kickstarter and then ends up not being able to produce a game with it.
This is the age of the gamer funding the games and then still having to buy the game! :P
It's like the pre-order from hell.
Why are you guys so down on Kickstarter funding?
You do realize that most of the time a Kickstarter for a game offers the game itself as an incentive - usually discounted steeply from the projected MSRP? By supporting the Kickstarter you end up not only getting the game for your support for free, but you often are given the game for providing a fund that amounts to less than the final MSRP once the product is released. You're getting a discount. You're not funding the game, then buying the game after it's out.
Also some people just want to support certain developers and it's as simple as that. The fact that they get incentives in return for them is often icing on the cake.
I personally can't wait to see the shitstorm that ensues when a developer takes everybody's money via kickstarter and then ends up not being able to produce a game with it.
Now this will be a shitstorm, because, a lot of times a project goes over budget or over schedule and the money or the time or the resources run out. If a kickstarter is successfully funded, but then all the funds are used up and the project falls apart before it's finished, what then?
So how many failed kickstarts will have to occur before people realize that DoubleFine's success is not guaranteed?
No joke. DoubleFine's successful kickstarter has had a hell of a lot going for it.
There are quite a few people out there that think as though kickstarters are a guaranteed way to gain funding. Most kickstarters are not successfully funded, though, and I see a lot of them getting only a few hundred dollars (if that).
Kickstarter is not some magic bullet that people are starting to seem to think it is after DoubleFine's success.
This is the age of the gamer funding the games and then still having to buy the game! :P
You get a beta copy as well as a complete, DRM-free copy of the Double Fine game if you donate $15. It's basically a preorder that you pay in full now.
This is the age of the gamer funding the games and then still having to buy the game! :P
You get a beta copy as well as a complete, DRM-free copy of the Double Fine game if you donate $15. It's basically a preorder that you pay in full now.
Or in most cases of kickstarter funding, the lowest level incentive price is usually less than the asking price of the game once it's released. It's very often a preorder that you pay less than full to get the game when it comes out.
Not sure if that's the case with the DoubleFine Adventure though.
We don't even know if this game is going to be made yet, so I wouldn't jump the gun on it being a successful kickstart.
Hell best case scenario is still sort of a nightmare as it is a doublefine game. Costume quest and the Lucasarts adventure games give me hope though that they aren't quite hopeless.
So, has anybody sat down and thought about sales figures with a system like that? One can resonably assume that most of the people who donated are also the ones who would buy the game. So you earn 1 million dollars and make/release your game. Nobody buys it because all interested people already did. Your net profit is essentially $0. You can probably count on a few thousand sales from random people. But by and large your customer base already bought the game via the development fund.
I mean as long as the developer realizes this and is cool basically making a game with free money, I guess it's ok. But I just got this hunch that Doublefine's game is going to sell next to nothing. And it's not because nobody's interested, it's because of how the math works out.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
The danger of a kickstarter orientated marketplace is that developers become entirely dependent on community demands, instead of being mostly dependent.
Something like Trenched would never get made based upon community desire. Gamers are notoriously intractable when it comes to taste, wholly hesitant to risk something new, to a far worse degree than publishers.
So the end result is twofold:
1) Companies like Double Fine are constrained rather than freed by a kickstarter economy. They are compelled to make the same old thing over and over.
2) Only a developer like Double Fine could make something new under this system, because of community trust in the brand. Meaning that only the most popular developers get to experiment on our dime.
People say that kickstarter is a boon because something like a traditional Double Fine Adventure game would never get made otherwise. I'd argue that is a good thing. The brutal economics of video gaming is what has made it the most diverse and creative entertainment industry. It is the most vicious creative Darwinism and it should be relished, rather than reviled.
The absolute best thing that Double Fine can produce using this kickstarter fund is a facsimile of a game that we have already played and already enjoyed, twenty years ago. It's like post-modern nostalgia, except we have to buy it ourselves. Twice.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
So the App store will be the only place the purchase any Mac software?
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
So the App store will be the only place the purchase any Mac software?
That is fucking insane.
Because history has shown that local monopolies are awesome!
This is the age of the gamer funding the games and then still having to buy the game! :P
It's like the pre-order from hell.
I personally can't wait to see the shitstorm that ensues when a developer takes everybody's money via kickstarter and then ends up not being able to produce a game with it.
Activision an EA are probably mad that they didn't think of it first.
We don't even know if this game is going to be made yet, so I wouldn't jump the gun on it being a successful kickstart.
By successful kickstarter, everyone is meaning that the kickstarter goal was met. Whether the game is a success or not remains to be seen, but at the very least they're doing things in a transparent way.
So, has anybody sat down and thought about sales figures with a system like that? One can resonably assume that most of the people who donated are also the ones who would buy the game. So you earn 1 million dollars and make/release your game. Nobody buys it because all interested people already did. Your net profit is essentially $0. You can probably count on a few thousand sales from random people. But by and large your customer base already bought the game via the development fund.
I mean as long as the developer realizes this and is cool basically making a game with free money, I guess it's ok. But I just got this hunch that Doublefine's game is going to sell next to nothing. And it's not because nobody's interested, it's because of how the math works out.
Most of the people who donate are also ones who would buy the game? Yes, most of the donators would have bought the game. But that certainly does not mean ALL people who want to buy the eventual game have donated. I have seen first hand how few kickstarters are actually backed (in terms of numbers) compared to how many sales for the project are generated once it's done. Simply put, most people don't like "donating" to commercial projects even when they're guaranteed to get the thing later. That or people are too lazy/don't care/aren't interesting in paying now for something later. My point is, in most cases even successful kickstarter backers represent only a small number of the potential market for a product. So no, "all the interested people" in a product are not buying it before hand via a kickstarter.
All this kickstarter talk is generating a lot of free marketing for the game too, and will also bolster the game's visibility when it's out.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
We have no idea if the Double Fine Adventure game is going to even be good yet, let alone something we want to play. I'm a massive Monkey Island fan, but I really did not like Day of the Tentacle at all. So even if the end product ends up being exactly what was advertised, that is still no guarantee of satisfaction or desire.
At least with a pre-order you can gauge your response to the game based on trailers, articles and previews. Funding a kickstarter is gambling.
0
SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
2) You can disable it. Simple as that.
It's good that you can disable it... but what's the point? You can't install non approved software. Unless you want to, then okay.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
2) You can disable it. Simple as that.
It's still really dumb.
I see it as their version of anti-virus/adware software. Customers that are paranoid about outside software can tell their computer to lock out only what Apple approves.
If my parents used a Mac I'd probably recommend they turn it on, because I don't see them using anything outside of Apple's stock applications.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
We have no idea if the Double Fine Adventure game is going to even be good yet, let alone something we want to play. I'm a massive Monkey Island fan, but I really did not like Day of the Tentacle at all. So even if the end product ends up being exactly what was advertised, that is still no guarantee of satisfaction or desire.
At least with a pre-order you can gauge your response to the game based on trailers, articles and previews. Funding a kickstarter is gambling.
For a lot of people, yeah, it is a bet. You're betting on a project that you believe in, and in return, you get the product (assuming it comes out). If you end up liking the game, yay, you win the bet.
Kickstarter is also not a bet in the sense that a lot of kickstarter backers are funding for the simple fact that they want to support the developer, or the project, and don't really care too much about the particular game coming out. The people who paid to go to lunch with the Double Fine team, or whatever, probably did so because they're big fans of Double Fine, for example. For those people, supporting a group they're a fan of and being able to meet them and check out their place is reward in of itself. Similarly, throwing $15 bucks towards Double Fine to let them do something they'd not otherwise be able to do is support that people are fine with.
Not everyone that funds projects like this are looking at it purely from a "I'm buying the game before-hand" perspective.
This is another reason a lot of people who are interested in a KS project but end up not funding because of the bet aspect. Especially now that it is fully funded, they don't even need to place a bet - they can wait until release, and if it's good, they can buy it then. It supports the argument that no, not everyone interested in the game has already "bought" the game ahead of time.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
2) You can disable it. Simple as that.
It's still really dumb.
It's for cyber cafes and other public places btw.
Allegedly it's for security, in order to keep out nasty crap that could wreck your computer.
Though it just so happens to divest everything that doesn't generate Apple money.
Oh I know. I was one of the backers, one of the earliest before it even reached the goal.
I'm just trying to stop the hype snowball from rolling down the hill. People's expectations are going stratospheric right now and that will only lead to disappointment.
Kickstarter is not the future of indie gaming. It's not the future of anything. It's an anomaly, a treat if you will. You can't build an economy on the back of donations, only purchases.
I'm happy Double Fine are making something like this. But remember a few weeks ago when Notch was all 'let's make Psychonauts 2 happen' and the internet burst into flames. I knew that Notch didn't even realize Psychonauts 1 cost twenty million. I think sometimes the gaming community has a very poor grasp of basic economics and business.
Oh I know. I was one of the backers, one of the earliest before it even reached the goal.
I'm just trying to stop the hype snowball from rolling down the hill. People's expectations are going stratospheric right now and that will only lead to disappointment.
Kickstarter is not the future of indie gaming. It's not the future of anything. It's an anomaly, a treat if you will. You can't build an economy on the back of donations, only purchases.
I'm happy Double Fine are making something like this. But remember a few weeks ago when Notch was all 'let's make Psychonauts 2 happen' and the internet burst into flames. I knew that Notch didn't even realize Psychonauts 1 cost twenty million. I think sometimes the gaming community has a very poor grasp of basic economics and business.
Oh I agree with you, I"ve been trying to stop the hype snowball (surrounding the concept of kickstarter) from getting bigger than it is as well. I see very often independent developers talk about Kickstarter like it's an almost guaranteed thing; but it's not, and the vast majority of KS projects flop. I cannot emphasize enough how DoubleFine has so much more going for it in this particular instance that it is not something that is easily replicated, certainly not by simply putting up a project on Kickstarter.
It also seems that most people think you fund with kickstarter and either get nothing or have to buy the game once it's out, which simply isn't true, as there are tons of great incentives you get for funding the projects.
Also Psychonauts cost $20mil to make? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's the kind of budget that goes into AAA console games this generation. How the hell did they spend that much on a game last gen?
We have no idea if the Double Fine Adventure game is going to even be good yet, let alone something we want to play. I'm a massive Monkey Island fan, but I really did not like Day of the Tentacle at all. So even if the end product ends up being exactly what was advertised, that is still no guarantee of satisfaction or desire.
At least with a pre-order you can gauge your response to the game based on trailers, articles and previews. Funding a kickstarter is gambling.
For a lot of people, yeah, it is a bet. You're betting on a project that you believe in, and in return, you get the product (assuming it comes out). If you end up liking the game, yay, you win the bet.
Kickstarter is also not a bet in the sense that a lot of kickstarter backers are funding for the simple fact that they want to support the developer, or the project, and don't really care too much about the particular game coming out. The people who paid to go to lunch with the Double Fine team, or whatever, probably did so because they're big fans of Double Fine, for example. For those people, supporting a group they're a fan of and being able to meet them and check out their place is reward in of itself. Similarly, throwing $15 bucks towards Double Fine to let them do something they'd not otherwise be able to do is support that people are fine with.
Not everyone that funds projects like this are looking at it purely from a "I'm buying the game before-hand" perspective.
This is another reason a lot of people who are interested in a KS project but end up not funding because of the bet aspect. Especially now that it is fully funded, they don't even need to place a bet - they can wait until release, and if it's good, they can buy it then. It supports the argument that no, not everyone interested in the game has already "bought" the game ahead of time.
If it was a genre that was generally popular, I could see your point.
We have an old school adventure game. Being made by Tim Schafer. I'm pretty confident it's not going to light the world on fire in terms of sales.
Anybody who read that sentence, knew what it meant, and creamed their panties, I'm betting already donated. Near everybody else who doesn't know or give a shit what that is, likely won't buy the game anyways. Which goes back to my original point. Most potential buyers of the game likely already donated. And actually, a quick check of the page shows 55,692 backers. 55,692 people who technically won't buy the game. And 50k-100k is about what I would guesstimate the sales of a Tim Schafer adventure game to be.
edit: Y'know, I think I quoted the right person... but the wrong post...
I gotta stop drinking in the afternoon. :P
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Also Psychonauts cost $20mil to make? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's the kind of budget that goes into AAA console games this generation. How the hell did they spend that much on a game last gen?
Sorry it was $13 million to develop with a $2 million ad budget.
But yeah, it was waaay more than Notch expected. He said he was thinking Kickstarter 1.5 million scale when he pledged.
Of course, Notch is awesome and said 13 mil was fine also.
Also Psychonauts cost $20mil to make? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's the kind of budget that goes into AAA console games this generation. How the hell did they spend that much on a game last gen?
It's kotaku and all, but this says that the budget was $13 million, which is still quite a lot.
Veteran game designer Brian Fargo is using Kickstarter to raise cash for a Wasteland sequel.
1988 post-apocalyptic role-playing game Wasteland is considered by many to be one of the greatest western RPGs ever, and is the precursor to the Fallout series.
IP holder Fargo, now in charge of Hunted developer inXile, founded Interplay Productions, the studio behind Wasteland, A Bard's Tale and Fallout 1 and 2.
Now he wants your help to revive the game.
Wasteland 2 - or whatever it ends up being called - will be a top-down, isometric, party based RPG.
In a series of posts on Fargo's Twitter page, he emphasised his intention to create an old school experience fans of the first game will be happy with.
"I want fans to know that a new Wasteland would be complete old school vibe and made with input from gamers. Made the gamers way."
He added: "People forget that Wasteland was the precursor to Fallout. We made Fallout because we didn't have the Wasteland rights."
Fargo told IGN the Wasteland sequel will be a PC game first, then perhaps iOS (probably iPad) and other platforms.
The crucial question now is, how much does Fargo need to make Wasteland a reality?
The answer: $1 million. The Kickstarter call goes live next month.
If it was a genre that was generally popular, I could see your point.
We have an old school adventure game. Being made by Tim Schafer. I'm pretty confident it's not going to light the world on fire in terms of sales.
Anybody who read that sentence, knew what it meant, and creamed their panties, I'm betting already donated. Near everybody else who doesn't know or give a shit what that is, likely won't buy the game anyways. Which goes back to my original point. Most potential buyers of the game likely already donated. And actually, a quick check of the page shows 55,692 backers. 55,692 people who technically won't buy the game. And 50k-100k is about what I would guesstimate the sales of a Tim Schafer adventure game to be.
I guess you have more faith in people to donate. Whereas I believe that people are not inclined to donate, especially after the funding goal was met.
I don't disagree with your logic, though, regarding the potential sales for something like this. Then again, with digital distro and enough platforms, I can see a good game in this style beating the 100k mark, if the price is right.
I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Anybody who read that sentence, knew what it meant, and creamed their panties, I'm betting already donated. Near everybody else who doesn't know or give a shit what that is, likely won't buy the game anyways. Which goes back to my original point. Most potential buyers of the game likely already donated. And actually, a quick check of the page shows 55,692 backers. 55,692 people who technically won't buy the game. And 50k-100k is about what I would guesstimate the sales of a Tim Schafer adventure game to be.
Wanna bet? Then again, we would have nothing to bet.
Ehh, what I'm trying to say is this is far from going to be a 1:1 case for various reasons. Including but not limited to the sole assumption that there are probably tons of people that have no idea about Kickstarter but still would jump at that game. Plenty people that liked Adventure games back in the 90s are as far removed from beeing hardcore gamers as possible.
This especially counts for europe. Combine that with beeing available on the phone.....
You might not wanting to get your opinion hardned too soon all I'm sayin'.
Also Psychonauts cost $20mil to make? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's the kind of budget that goes into AAA console games this generation. How the hell did they spend that much on a game last gen?
It's kotaku and all, but this says that the budget was $13 million, which is still quite a lot.
If it was a genre that was generally popular, I could see your point.
We have an old school adventure game. Being made by Tim Schafer. I'm pretty confident it's not going to light the world on fire in terms of sales.
Anybody who read that sentence, knew what it meant, and creamed their panties, I'm betting already donated. Near everybody else who doesn't know or give a shit what that is, likely won't buy the game anyways. Which goes back to my original point. Most potential buyers of the game likely already donated. And actually, a quick check of the page shows 55,692 backers. 55,692 people who technically won't buy the game. And 50k-100k is about what I would guesstimate the sales of a Tim Schafer adventure game to be.
I guess you have more faith in people to donate. Whereas I believe that people are not inclined to donate, especially after the funding goal was met.
I don't disagree with your logic, though, regarding the potential sales for something like this. Then again, with digital distro and enough platforms, I can see a good game in this style beating the 100k mark, if the price is right.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the notion that there's going to be a decent sized buffer of people who are interested in the game and who will not donate. I'm one of them. It all depends how big that group is. I just don't think it's going to be very large in Doubefine's case. If it ends up being the blockbuster of the year and sells a million copies, more power to them. I just can't see that realistically happening. My guess would be like yours: 100k sales. Which is now -55k due to the donaters. And when the sales figures come in and they're only 50k, I hope Doublefine is smart enough to realize why.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
People say that kickstarter is a boon because something like a traditional Double Fine Adventure game would never get made otherwise. I'd argue that is a good thing. The brutal economics of video gaming is what has made it the most diverse and creative entertainment industry. It is the most vicious creative Darwinism and it should be relished, rather than reviled.
The absolute best thing that Double Fine can produce using this kickstarter fund is a facsimile of a game that we have already played and already enjoyed, twenty years ago. It's like post-modern nostalgia, except we have to buy it ourselves. Twice.
Wa-hut? Right now gaming is one of the most derivative forms of entertainment out there. There are a few bright spots of innovation, but it's almost completely sequels of sequels. Even a lot of the indy games we love and hold dear are flatly derivative works. Go check out the Can Film Festival sometime, or what's going on in alternative and electronic musics. It's far more creative and fresh than what's going on in games right now.
I'll agree the economics are brutal, which is precisely why it isn't diverse or creative. Companies need to make money, and they know Call of Duty: Modern Black Ops World Engaged In Warfare 5 is going to sell. I'm wracking my brain, and I can't think of a single big seller in the last twelve months that wasn't a direct sequel, or clearly derivative and not very creative. Doesn't mean they weren't GOOD GAMES, but this idea that gaming is some harbor of fresh ideas just doesn't match up with reality.
Mountain Lion will introduce a new security feature called Gatekeeper, according to Gamasutra. By default, the system will block games and applications purchased or obtained outside Apple’s closed App Store offerings.
Although users can disable the feature (or ramp it up), on first install Gatekeeper will stand between users and games bought from third party stores, distributed by individual indies, or sold through schemes like the Humble Bundle.
It’s not clear whether Gatekeeper will have an effect on Steam installs; the Steam app itself is not available through the App Store.
Luckily, developers can circumnavigate the system by obtaining an official Apple Developer ID , which costs $99 per year.
Posts
It's like the pre-order from hell.
I personally can't wait to see the shitstorm that ensues when a developer takes everybody's money via kickstarter and then ends up not being able to produce a game with it.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
I trust Obsidian
I don't trust InXile (Except Fargo, halfway)
Why are you guys so down on Kickstarter funding?
You do realize that most of the time a Kickstarter for a game offers the game itself as an incentive - usually discounted steeply from the projected MSRP? By supporting the Kickstarter you end up not only getting the game for your support for free, but you often are given the game for providing a fund that amounts to less than the final MSRP once the product is released. You're getting a discount. You're not funding the game, then buying the game after it's out.
Also some people just want to support certain developers and it's as simple as that. The fact that they get incentives in return for them is often icing on the cake.
Now this will be a shitstorm, because, a lot of times a project goes over budget or over schedule and the money or the time or the resources run out. If a kickstarter is successfully funded, but then all the funds are used up and the project falls apart before it's finished, what then?
No joke. DoubleFine's successful kickstarter has had a hell of a lot going for it.
There are quite a few people out there that think as though kickstarters are a guaranteed way to gain funding. Most kickstarters are not successfully funded, though, and I see a lot of them getting only a few hundred dollars (if that).
Kickstarter is not some magic bullet that people are starting to seem to think it is after DoubleFine's success.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
You get a beta copy as well as a complete, DRM-free copy of the Double Fine game if you donate $15. It's basically a preorder that you pay in full now.
Or in most cases of kickstarter funding, the lowest level incentive price is usually less than the asking price of the game once it's released. It's very often a preorder that you pay less than full to get the game when it comes out.
Not sure if that's the case with the DoubleFine Adventure though.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Hell best case scenario is still sort of a nightmare as it is a doublefine game. Costume quest and the Lucasarts adventure games give me hope though that they aren't quite hopeless.
I mean as long as the developer realizes this and is cool basically making a game with free money, I guess it's ok. But I just got this hunch that Doublefine's game is going to sell next to nothing. And it's not because nobody's interested, it's because of how the math works out.
Something like Trenched would never get made based upon community desire. Gamers are notoriously intractable when it comes to taste, wholly hesitant to risk something new, to a far worse degree than publishers.
So the end result is twofold:
1) Companies like Double Fine are constrained rather than freed by a kickstarter economy. They are compelled to make the same old thing over and over.
2) Only a developer like Double Fine could make something new under this system, because of community trust in the brand. Meaning that only the most popular developers get to experiment on our dime.
People say that kickstarter is a boon because something like a traditional Double Fine Adventure game would never get made otherwise. I'd argue that is a good thing. The brutal economics of video gaming is what has made it the most diverse and creative entertainment industry. It is the most vicious creative Darwinism and it should be relished, rather than reviled.
The absolute best thing that Double Fine can produce using this kickstarter fund is a facsimile of a game that we have already played and already enjoyed, twenty years ago. It's like post-modern nostalgia, except we have to buy it ourselves. Twice.
So the App store will be the only place the purchase any Mac software?
That is fucking insane.
I... I really don't even remotly understand you.
And this is not even true. Several cult classics were basically made because the big guys didn't pay much attention to them during development.
Activision an EA are probably mad that they didn't think of it first.
Most of the people who donate are also ones who would buy the game? Yes, most of the donators would have bought the game. But that certainly does not mean ALL people who want to buy the eventual game have donated. I have seen first hand how few kickstarters are actually backed (in terms of numbers) compared to how many sales for the project are generated once it's done. Simply put, most people don't like "donating" to commercial projects even when they're guaranteed to get the thing later. That or people are too lazy/don't care/aren't interesting in paying now for something later. My point is, in most cases even successful kickstarter backers represent only a small number of the potential market for a product. So no, "all the interested people" in a product are not buying it before hand via a kickstarter.
All this kickstarter talk is generating a lot of free marketing for the game too, and will also bolster the game's visibility when it's out.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
1) Mountain Lion was announced TODAY...it's still 6 months away from release. Alot can change between now and then.
2) You can disable it. Simple as that.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
We have no idea if the Double Fine Adventure game is going to even be good yet, let alone something we want to play. I'm a massive Monkey Island fan, but I really did not like Day of the Tentacle at all. So even if the end product ends up being exactly what was advertised, that is still no guarantee of satisfaction or desire.
At least with a pre-order you can gauge your response to the game based on trailers, articles and previews. Funding a kickstarter is gambling.
It's good that you can disable it... but what's the point? You can't install non approved software. Unless you want to, then okay.
It's still really dumb.
I see it as their version of anti-virus/adware software. Customers that are paranoid about outside software can tell their computer to lock out only what Apple approves.
If my parents used a Mac I'd probably recommend they turn it on, because I don't see them using anything outside of Apple's stock applications.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
It's for cyber cafes and other public places btw.
For a lot of people, yeah, it is a bet. You're betting on a project that you believe in, and in return, you get the product (assuming it comes out). If you end up liking the game, yay, you win the bet.
Kickstarter is also not a bet in the sense that a lot of kickstarter backers are funding for the simple fact that they want to support the developer, or the project, and don't really care too much about the particular game coming out. The people who paid to go to lunch with the Double Fine team, or whatever, probably did so because they're big fans of Double Fine, for example. For those people, supporting a group they're a fan of and being able to meet them and check out their place is reward in of itself. Similarly, throwing $15 bucks towards Double Fine to let them do something they'd not otherwise be able to do is support that people are fine with.
Not everyone that funds projects like this are looking at it purely from a "I'm buying the game before-hand" perspective.
This is another reason a lot of people who are interested in a KS project but end up not funding because of the bet aspect. Especially now that it is fully funded, they don't even need to place a bet - they can wait until release, and if it's good, they can buy it then. It supports the argument that no, not everyone interested in the game has already "bought" the game ahead of time.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
In that case, it should not be on by default.
Allegedly it's for security, in order to keep out nasty crap that could wreck your computer.
Though it just so happens to divest everything that doesn't generate Apple money.
I'm just trying to stop the hype snowball from rolling down the hill. People's expectations are going stratospheric right now and that will only lead to disappointment.
Kickstarter is not the future of indie gaming. It's not the future of anything. It's an anomaly, a treat if you will. You can't build an economy on the back of donations, only purchases.
I'm happy Double Fine are making something like this. But remember a few weeks ago when Notch was all 'let's make Psychonauts 2 happen' and the internet burst into flames. I knew that Notch didn't even realize Psychonauts 1 cost twenty million. I think sometimes the gaming community has a very poor grasp of basic economics and business.
Oh I agree with you, I"ve been trying to stop the hype snowball (surrounding the concept of kickstarter) from getting bigger than it is as well. I see very often independent developers talk about Kickstarter like it's an almost guaranteed thing; but it's not, and the vast majority of KS projects flop. I cannot emphasize enough how DoubleFine has so much more going for it in this particular instance that it is not something that is easily replicated, certainly not by simply putting up a project on Kickstarter.
It also seems that most people think you fund with kickstarter and either get nothing or have to buy the game once it's out, which simply isn't true, as there are tons of great incentives you get for funding the projects.
Also Psychonauts cost $20mil to make? I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's the kind of budget that goes into AAA console games this generation. How the hell did they spend that much on a game last gen?
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
If it was a genre that was generally popular, I could see your point.
We have an old school adventure game. Being made by Tim Schafer. I'm pretty confident it's not going to light the world on fire in terms of sales.
Anybody who read that sentence, knew what it meant, and creamed their panties, I'm betting already donated. Near everybody else who doesn't know or give a shit what that is, likely won't buy the game anyways. Which goes back to my original point. Most potential buyers of the game likely already donated. And actually, a quick check of the page shows 55,692 backers. 55,692 people who technically won't buy the game. And 50k-100k is about what I would guesstimate the sales of a Tim Schafer adventure game to be.
edit: Y'know, I think I quoted the right person... but the wrong post...
I gotta stop drinking in the afternoon. :P
Sorry it was $13 million to develop with a $2 million ad budget.
But yeah, it was waaay more than Notch expected. He said he was thinking Kickstarter 1.5 million scale when he pledged.
Of course, Notch is awesome and said 13 mil was fine also.
You might say
double fine.
It's kotaku and all, but this says that the budget was $13 million, which is still quite a lot.
http://kotaku.com/5884958/the-past-and-future-of-psychonauts-2
Edit: Too late dang
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Isn't a Wasteland sequel just Fallout? :P I don't see how calling it Wasteland 2 is going to change that....
Some money put into Xenonauts by Firaxis so they can get it done and make it a pack in with the new XCOM.
I guess you have more faith in people to donate. Whereas I believe that people are not inclined to donate, especially after the funding goal was met.
I don't disagree with your logic, though, regarding the potential sales for something like this. Then again, with digital distro and enough platforms, I can see a good game in this style beating the 100k mark, if the price is right.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
"Your mom has a below average score, but an incredible number of reviews," would also have been acceptable.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Wanna bet? Then again, we would have nothing to bet.
Ehh, what I'm trying to say is this is far from going to be a 1:1 case for various reasons. Including but not limited to the sole assumption that there are probably tons of people that have no idea about Kickstarter but still would jump at that game. Plenty people that liked Adventure games back in the 90s are as far removed from beeing hardcore gamers as possible.
This especially counts for europe. Combine that with beeing available on the phone.....
You might not wanting to get your opinion hardned too soon all I'm sayin'.
$13mil seems really over the top. It's a basic 3D platformer. Surely a more conservative budget could pull off something similar for $8mil.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the notion that there's going to be a decent sized buffer of people who are interested in the game and who will not donate. I'm one of them. It all depends how big that group is. I just don't think it's going to be very large in Doubefine's case. If it ends up being the blockbuster of the year and sells a million copies, more power to them. I just can't see that realistically happening. My guess would be like yours: 100k sales. Which is now -55k due to the donaters. And when the sales figures come in and they're only 50k, I hope Doublefine is smart enough to realize why.
Wa-hut? Right now gaming is one of the most derivative forms of entertainment out there. There are a few bright spots of innovation, but it's almost completely sequels of sequels. Even a lot of the indy games we love and hold dear are flatly derivative works. Go check out the Can Film Festival sometime, or what's going on in alternative and electronic musics. It's far more creative and fresh than what's going on in games right now.
I'll agree the economics are brutal, which is precisely why it isn't diverse or creative. Companies need to make money, and they know Call of Duty: Modern Black Ops World Engaged In Warfare 5 is going to sell. I'm wracking my brain, and I can't think of a single big seller in the last twelve months that wasn't a direct sequel, or clearly derivative and not very creative. Doesn't mean they weren't GOOD GAMES, but this idea that gaming is some harbor of fresh ideas just doesn't match up with reality.
Problem solved, there is no doomsday happening.