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[Defiance] Let's shoot/kill some bugs

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Posts

  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Arthil wrote: »
    If the game allows you to crouch, then it basically has the same cover system as Farcry 3.

    You did realize that when the gun was up, you were in the "cover system", right? If you aimed down sights while in that mode, you would pop up or around a corner and releasing would duck you back. You could also blind fire while in that mode to suppress your enemies and force them to relocate. It was intuitive, and certainly not just "I crouch behind this barrel and strafe back and forth thusly."

    Anon the Felon on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    I've never seen someone use that in LPs of it :<!

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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    I've never seen someone use that in LPs of it :<!

    It probably should have been explained better by the game, but that's not a fault of the mechanic, it's a fault of the developer not really showing off their innovation on a very stale mechanic.

    Here's a good display of it:


    Non-sticky, non-invasive, optional, and immersive.

    Kendrik
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Mmm I guess that kind of cover would work well, but in a way they do have cover they just don't have that kind of system (that I saw in videos). But they did an instance and there were buildings and boxes kind of spread around that you could use to shoot from. The truth is the lack of a cover system just doesn't bother me, but I can understand how you would like to see something.

  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    If I can eventually have some just... -silly- guns, I'll be happy. Guns that do crazy shit trump cover, in my opinion.

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Wow, that's a nice system in that video. I'd imagine it has some annoying moments like any feature, but it seems pretty fluid and intuitive to me.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Eh, worked for Borderlands.

    True. Although I think for most people, Borderlands had a limited lifespan of play which revolved around the story. Some people ground forever and ever for drops, but a lot of people enjoyed the game that was there then moved on. This is tougher for an MMO, as the goal is to have content that keeps people well past the lifespan of the content itself.

    What is this I don't even.
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited March 2013
    Arthil wrote: »
    If I can eventually have some just... -silly- guns, I'll be happy. Guns that do crazy shit trump cover, in my opinion.

    I think this game will have you pretty well covered in that department.

    I got a sniper rifle that fires lightning.

    Echo on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    If I can eventually have some just... -silly- guns, I'll be happy. Guns that do crazy shit trump cover, in my opinion.

    I think this game will have you pretty well covered in that department.

    I got a sniper rifle that fires lightning.

    awesome_face_17.gif

    Sold.

    488W936.png
    Arthil
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Eh, worked for Borderlands.

    True. Although I think for most people, Borderlands had a limited lifespan of play which revolved around the story. Some people ground forever and ever for drops, but a lot of people enjoyed the game that was there then moved on. This is tougher for an MMO, as the goal is to have content that keeps people well past the lifespan of the content itself.

    Mm but I think the MMO aspect of this will make it different. In Borderlands 2 grinding for drops isn't as much fun without friends and it being a singleplayerish kind of game gives it that *Why am I playing after I won?* kind of feel.

  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Registered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Eh, worked for Borderlands.

    True. Although I think for most people, Borderlands had a limited lifespan of play which revolved around the story. Some people ground forever and ever for drops, but a lot of people enjoyed the game that was there then moved on. This is tougher for an MMO, as the goal is to have content that keeps people well past the lifespan of the content itself.

    Mm but I think the MMO aspect of this will make it different. In Borderlands 2 grinding for drops isn't as much fun without friends and it being a singleplayerish kind of game gives it that *Why am I playing after I won?* kind of feel.

    Plus, there is some actual pvp in this game so if you want to take that lightning shooting sniper rifle and zap your friends/other people in a *somewhat-ish balanced environment from what I've seen you can do that.

    * - Someone who's actually played the game could probably comment better on this than I could.

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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    They're actually doing interesting stuff for their PVP.

    You have your typical instanced 16v16 or whatever CTF and stuff.

    Then there's Shadow War.

    You queue up for that too, but that takes place out in the wild. You can be minding your own PVE business and run into four dozen people murdering the crap out of each other.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    I'm having a hard time putting this question into a good format, so I'll just ask it in a stupid fashion that'll give me the answer I want anyways:

    What does this game do that would make it better than say, planetside?

    I'm aware they're "totally different" but so were Champions Online and City of Heroes and yet you basically chose one of those to play as well.



    Basically I'm asking why this game would stand out on the market and not be dead in a month like so many other games. If it sounds kind of negative to ask, that's probably because the general tone about this game on the other sites I frequent aren't exactly enthusiastic. PA seems to have a good number of people that really like it, so it's a good place to ask for a different opinion I figure.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Astale wrote: »
    What does this game do that would make it better than say, planetside?

    PVE.

    There's a billion online PVP shooters. It's the PVE that made me interested in Defiance.

  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    I'm definitely going to give it a shot, probably. Just not at launch.

    Something like Neverwinter I can jump in with no risk. If I enjoy it I'll start giving them money. I've done it in other F2p games and I'll do it there. If I end up hating it I just uninstall it and nothing is lost.

    This is asking a decent up front cost from someone on a budget and if there's any buyer's remorse I'll be kicking myself into next week. It's better to just wait and see for a month how people are taking to the game and go from there.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
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    DarkewolfeArthil
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Astale wrote: »
    What does this game do that would make it better than say, planetside?

    PVE.

    There's a billion online PVP shooters. It's the PVE that made me interested in Defiance.

    This is my reason too, I love PS2 and I play it a lot, the desire for a PVE experience is what lead me to Defiance.

    The gun mechanics arn't the same but fighting AI enemies is different from people and I think will be enjoyable. Also, in terms of combat not many MMO's have gone down the route of gunplay like this! Secret World's combat was terrible and other games just have buttons you press for abilities to shoot.

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Basically the only other game even attempting a similar sort of MMO F/TPS RPG PvE is Firefall and that game may as well not even exist at this point.

    For the style of game it is trying to be, mechanically, it may as well be the only show in town.

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Poor Tabula Rasa :(

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Basically the only other game even attempting a similar sort of MMO F/TPS RPG PvE is Firefall and that game may as well not even exist at this point.

    For the style of game it is trying to be, mechanically, it may as well be the only show in town.

    Fallen Earth, Global Assault, Auto Assault and APB might all disagree.

    I think the predecessors show, at the very least, that run'n'gun kiting against npc's gets extremely bland extremely quickly, and no MMO so far has successfully found a way to keep that fun for long.

    What is this I don't even.
    Anon the FelonSeidkonaCorehealer
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    Poor Tabula Rasa :(

    I still miss that game. I enjoyed it despite its faults.

    Auto Assault was a guilty pleasure of mine, too! Vroom vroom.

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    Darkewolfevegeta_666Cabezone
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Seriously, just relaunch Auto Assault, you bastards. :(

    What is this I don't even.
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Basically the only other game even attempting a similar sort of MMO F/TPS RPG PvE is Firefall and that game may as well not even exist at this point.

    For the style of game it is trying to be, mechanically, it may as well be the only show in town.

    Fallen Earth, Global Assault, Auto Assault and APB might all disagree.

    I think the predecessors show, at the very least, that run'n'gun kiting against npc's gets extremely bland extremely quickly, and no MMO so far has successfully found a way to keep that fun for long.

    Those games are/were terrible for more reasons than that though.

  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    Retaba wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Basically the only other game even attempting a similar sort of MMO F/TPS RPG PvE is Firefall and that game may as well not even exist at this point.

    For the style of game it is trying to be, mechanically, it may as well be the only show in town.

    Fallen Earth, Global Assault, Auto Assault and APB might all disagree.

    I think the predecessors show, at the very least, that run'n'gun kiting against npc's gets extremely bland extremely quickly, and no MMO so far has successfully found a way to keep that fun for long.

    Those games are/were terrible for more reasons than that though.

    Cool strawman, man.

    Pretty sure Darkewolfe is saying that in this one area of the game, Defiance has more in common with those games than not. It's displaying the same mechanical systems those games (I'm thinking of Fallen Earth as the best example here), when you look at the shooting. Which is what we're discussing.

    The hope, for me, is that as Alpha and Beta stages of the game progress, we start to see some complex systems infused into the gun play. Things like peak mechanics, or integration with "future tech" stuff that allows for visually and tactically pleasing situations.

    If the core mechanic is "I am standing here or I am not standing here as I fire my gun", there's only so much depth you can generate. Being able to cloak, teleport, decoy, move faster are just non-complex variations on the kite and shoot mechanic. They are binary states which don't allow for natural strategies to evolve.

    What about suppression?
    Moral?
    Location damage?
    Destroy-able cover (even without a cover system)?

    These things add complexity and create entertainment. How awesome would it be if I can fire my lightning sniper gun at a piece of metal and have it arc into a guy whose using it to avoid my shots? What about a LMG just dumping an entire belt of ammo into a wooden building to kill and flush out the occupants? How about if my friend snipes the group leader and his cohorts scatter, forcing us to hunt them down before they rally and flank us (Alternatively, we could move into a fortified position and take them out as they came back)?

    Complex systems make better games. Imagine an MMO where you and your friends must actually fight tactically against the threat. Employing covering fire, leveraging unique character strengths, and adapting to unpredictable change. That's a game I want to play.

    This is the argument Retaba. I hope that Defiance proves me wrong, I'd love to give them my money. I think the aesthetic is amazing, the synergy they're trying to generate with other forms of media is revolutionary, and their drive to have a world that actually see's change is commendable. As it stands, from what I have seen, it's got a hell of a long way to go for the base combat mechanics to be interesting.

    I'd love to shoot a guy in the foot (because it's all I can see), and have him double over exposing his head. While a more veteran enemy would take the hit and sink further back into his fortification and radio in support.

    Darkewolfe
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Wow, strawman? Right, one last thing for you and no more.

    Location damage is in, certain objects have things to shoot and headshots are critical. The things you are describing don't sound like this game so maybe this isn't the game for you, have fun trying to find something like that I guess?

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    The alpha stage is long since done. What they call "alpha server" is more like "daily build dev server" that gets pushed to beta when stable enough.

    We're not seeing any major mechanic overhauls.

  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Echo wrote: »
    The alpha stage is long since done. What they call "alpha server" is more like "daily build dev server" that gets pushed to beta when stable enough.

    We're not seeing any major mechanic overhauls.

    Oh, I miss understood the terminology.

    Poop.

    Guess my hopes are dashed. Why you gotta dash my hopes Echo?

    Anon the Felon on
  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    The game comes out in 2 weeks, did you expect them to change and overhaul everything in that short period of time? The xbox/ps3 versions have to be going gold extremely soon.

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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    So is the beta client able to be DL'd yet? Or am I missing something?

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  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Corehealer wrote: »
    So is the beta client able to be DL'd yet? Or am I missing something?

    its letting me patch my beta client now.

    Edit - English is hard.

    CorriganX on
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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    I preordered on steam but haven't gotten an email yet :(

  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    CorriganX wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    So is the beta client able to be DL'd yet? Or am I missing something?

    its letting me patch my beta client now.

    Edit - English is hard.

    But where to download :<?

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  • CorriganXCorriganX Registered User regular
    No idea, I had mine from the earlier tests. If you got a beta key and put it into the trionworlds account it should be on that page, or it might be a bit before it goes up. :(

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    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    When I entered my Beta key from that link earlier in the thread for this weekend, it said the client would be available on the 20th. Instructions would come in an e-mail.

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  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    How is it this game is so under the radar? I mean Rift is one of the...bigger?...MMOs out there, I would have expected more than 6 pages since 8/2012 for a game that comes out in what, 3 weeks?

    OP could use some gameplay info, there just isn't much there.

    Still, I'm intrigued. I will say though that I watched the developer/producer commentary video on page one and wanted to punch the Trion CEO in the face every time he started talking about how revolutionary his game is.

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Trion also keeps things pretty tight lipped up to release. Except for the developers streams and the recent twitch partners weekend there hasn't been a lot to go on.

    NDA's have held most of the info in check.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Yeah, that seems unfortunate. I am hoping with the NDA coming down this weekend it blows up, but probably not.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    This was the game with the tv show tie-in, too, right?

    That right there gave me flags up until people were streaming playtime, because anything tied into a Sci-fi tv show has to be shit.

    What is this I don't even.
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Hey now, the channel has made quite a lot of good shows. The movies are shit... But the shows tend to be good.

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    The movies are not expected to be anything but b grade movies. But yeah their TV shows are pretty good.

  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Registered User regular
    SyFy's mini-series used to be where it was at in my opinion. For anyone who hasn't seen them, they did a Dune and Children of Dune mini-series run that was awesome.

    As far as on topic, the more I watch of the vidnets the more I'm interesting in giving the show itself a once over to see whether it might be fun to watch. Plus if what they said about how the show and the video game interact with each other is true then watching the show might, if nothing else, help give a better understanding of what will go on in-game. The cynical side of this however is the existence of a very big qualifying 'IF' statement.

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