City Ordinances - What are my rights?

Lanchester

Okay. So tuesday, I get home from work and I notice a notice of violation on my front door. Apparently I had violated a city ordinance of tall grass/weeds in my front lawn. I was given a date and time to go to court and take care of this. It mentioned, and I've looked online on the cities website, and found this code apparently...but I haven't found how much the fine is. We'll see what happens when I go to court on the 24th...because I'm definitely going to fight this.

My question is, does anyone have any experience with this stuff?

I'm still pretty pissed off about it. I'm not in a HOA, and when I bought the house and moved in a couple years ago, I was never notified of this, AND, I never signed any documents saying I would follow this stuff. So how does the city have the right to enforce this? And fine me when it doesn't meet their standards?

Kyougu

Ignorance of the law is generally not a good defense.

admanb

City ordinances are just city-level laws. There's no contract or association you have to join to be responsible to them.

Deebaser

Fix it, take pictures to show the judge and maintain your property in the future. You don't have to sign any documents to be expected to follow local ordinances.

TehSloth

Does it not give you a period to come into compliance by? I've run afoul of city ordinances a few times and they've always given me a notice that said I have a couple days to come into compliance. I did and never heard from them again.

Ruckus

When you move to a town or city, it's your responsibility to familiarize yourself with the local ordinances or bylaws, which will be available at the site of the local seat of government, Town/City hall, usually). Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

Hevach

Does your area used the IPMC? If it does, you're kind of boned - any plant growth with no distinction for shrubs or trees over 10 inches is a violation based on the judgement of the officer that inspected it, and anything that officer feels "has an unkept appearance" is a violation even without the 10 inch rule. I've been sited for my butterfly bush (which gets a bit brushy in the fall, especially if it was a dry summer, but is a legitimate garden plant) and my wife's ugly ornamental grasses. Heck, I've gotten violation notices including pictures of me actually cutting my lawn.

Even if it's not the IPMC (most legitimately drafted local laws aren't so vague that a fully operational car can count as construction debris like the IPMC is), it's still the law, and you're still kind of boned. Your best bet is to take pictures and argue that the condition is justified (complying with the rules in my township means actually killing most of my odd strain of grass this time of year and making it look like shit all summer - it has to run a bit wild before it greens up). But you're still probably boned. Thankfully in most places they can't fine you for your grass being dead, only for it being long.

But if you go in with your line of argument, that you're not under an HOA and never agreed to be bound by the law and how do they even have the authority (hint: they're still government)... any chance you had at getting leniency or a one-time waiver on the fine is gone. Judges don't often look kindly on that sort of goosery.

Thanatos

There's no mandatory disclosure for city ordinances when you buy a house. You're just expected to know those laws as part of your duty as a resident of the city.

As far as I know, there's no constitutional right to a shitty front yard. Though, if you wanted to troll them, you could always take a look at the ordinance, see if it allows you to remove your lawn entirely and just leave it as dirt.

Bowen

Thanatos wrote: »

There's no mandatory disclosure for city ordinances when you buy a house. You're just expected to know those laws as part of your duty as a resident of the city.

As far as I know, there's no constitutional right to a shitty front yard. Though, if you wanted to troll them, you could always take a look at the ordinance, see if it allows you to remove your lawn entirely and just leave it as dirt.

Haha I was thinking this too.

You might want to consider clover, too, great grass like look, and doesn't grow over a few inches tall.

Lanchester

Deebaser wrote: »

Fix it, take pictures to show the judge and maintain your property in the future. You don't have to sign any documents to be expected to follow local ordinances.

I planned on doing this

TehSloth wrote: »

Does it not give you a period to come into compliance by? I've run afoul of city ordinances a few times and they've always given me a notice that said I have a couple days to come into compliance. I did and never heard from them again.

I have received a notice in the past and it did give me a time when they would come by and re-inspect. That was a while ago and I got no notice this time.

Hevach wrote: »

Does your area used the IPMC? If it does, you're kind of boned - any plant growth with no distinction for shrubs or trees over 10 inches is a violation based on the judgement of the officer that inspected it, and anything that officer feels "has an unkept appearance" is a violation even without the 10 inch rule. I've been sited for my butterfly bush (which gets a bit brushy in the fall, especially if it was a dry summer, but is a legitimate garden plant) and my wife's ugly ornamental grasses. Heck, I've gotten violation notices including pictures of me actually cutting my lawn.

Even if it's not the IPMC (most legitimately drafted local laws aren't so vague that a fully operational car can count as construction debris like the IPMC is), it's still the law, and you're still kind of boned. Your best bet is to take pictures and argue that the condition is justified (complying with the rules in my township means actually killing most of my odd strain of grass this time of year and making it look like shit all summer - it has to run a bit wild before it greens up). But you're still probably boned. Thankfully in most places they can't fine you for your grass being dead, only for it being long.

I don't know what IPMC is, so I'll have to do some research

Thanatos wrote: »

There's no mandatory disclosure for city ordinances when you buy a house. You're just expected to know those laws as part of your duty as a resident of the city.

As far as I know, there's no constitutional right to a shitty front yard. Though, if you wanted to troll them, you could always take a look at the ordinance, see if it allows you to remove your lawn entirely and just leave it as dirt.

Obviously I don't want to have a shitty front yard. I actually have medical reasons to why I can't mow every weekend, or every other weekend. But I did assume, that since it's my house and I'm not in a HOA, that I could have it as shitty as I wanted. Apparently that was my mistake for assuming and not looking at the city ordinances

Lanchester

The first notice I received was actually last summer. I ended up mowing my yard so short (and I live in Texas), that the Texas heat completely killed my grass.

Now I'm dealing with only weeds, and I'll mow and literally 4-5 days the weeds will be back to 8-10 inches high

Lanchester

Hevach wrote: »

But if you go in with your line of argument, that you're not under an HOA and never agreed to be bound by the law and how do they even have the authority (hint: they're still government)... any chance you had at getting leniency or a one-time waiver on the fine is gone. Judges don't often look kindly on that sort of goosery.

This is the kind of information I'm looking for. I don't want to go in there and use my medical reasons as an excuse...because I don't like doing that.

And I have a feeling since I've been given a warning in the past about my lawn, they won't have any leniency...so I think I'm probably screwed. Hopefully I can go in there with proof that I've taken care of it and it'll be cleared...but I doubt that will happen.

Anyone have any good excuses that they've used to get out of something like this?

Hevach

IPMC is the International Property Maintenance Code. Basically outsourced municipal code. Chances are if you have ready access to the ordinances it's not the IPMC. Around here it takes an FIA filing just to get confirmation of which sections are officially enforced.

Considering your problem: Mow it again, and get some weedkiller, make sure it's NOT nonselective so it won't wipe out your grass as well, and spread it. Granular ones with one of those simple crank spreaders will cover a large yard in a lot less time than it takes to mow, and the Scotts that I use every year usually keeps anything except dandelions down for most of the summer. Dandelions can be handled by topping any tall blooms occasionally, you can literally kick them off.

Figgy

In the future, pay some neighbourhood kid to mow your lawn every week. It's pretty standard that a city ordinance requires your lawn to be well-kept. You also can't have piles of trash on your lawn, either. It's your property, but you're still a resident of the city.

Gilbert0

Figgy wrote: »

In the future, pay some neighbourhood kid to mow your lawn every week. It's pretty standard that a city ordinance requires your lawn to be well-kept. You also can't have piles of trash on your lawn, either. It's your property, but you're still a resident of the city.

There are even local laws depending on where you live, if it gets shitty enough (ie drug houses with known drug behaviour) the city will take your property.

This won't happen in this case, but it can happen.

143999

Lanchester wrote: »

I have received a notice in the past and it did give me a time when they would come by and re-inspect. That was a while ago and I got no notice this time.

They could just be looking at your case history and calling you a "repeat offender" because they have more than one instance on file. In my opinion, twice in two years would be pushing that definition. I suggest calling whatever your equivalent to Codes Enforcement is, asking them why you didn't get a warning, and asking that this instance be reevaluated with that in mind.

ToddJewell

I pay turf cuts to cut my lawn -- I just have no desire to mow it. Also, mowing weeds doesn't help get rid of them, you will need to spray your lawn with weed-be-gone-but-keep-my-grass stuff.

Forbe!

Around here you're lucky if you get a notice, sometimes the city will just drive by, mow your lawn for you and charge you $500 for the service.

Wezoin

Not sure about the structure of the governments in the US, but I know in Canada cities are corporations, and by buying property within the city you become a member of that corporation and are subject to all of its bylaws. They don't tell you "these are the rules" but your ownership of land within the city constitutes membership. I bet it's probably the same in the US, but can't be sure.

Hevach

Wezoin wrote: »

Not sure about the structure of the governments in the US, but I know in Canada cities are corporations, and by buying property within the city you become a member of that corporation and are subject to all of its bylaws. They don't tell you "these are the rules" but your ownership of land within the city constitutes membership. I bet it's probably the same in the US, but can't be sure.

It isn't, at least not in any state I know of. Cities are a special type of entity unto their own. There are rare cases where they are corporations (at one point several of the major theme parks in Florida made themselves cities so it could set their own building codes, and I know of a couple cases were ambitious developers basically set up city-sized HOAs), but those are pretty WTF-ish exceptions if you read about them. In the US, the constitution gives states the power of law over anything the federal government hasn't taken for itself, and state constitutions generally do the same for local governments, giving them full weight of law.

Darkewolfe

Hevach wrote: »

Wezoin wrote: »

Not sure about the structure of the governments in the US, but I know in Canada cities are corporations, and by buying property within the city you become a member of that corporation and are subject to all of its bylaws. They don't tell you "these are the rules" but your ownership of land within the city constitutes membership. I bet it's probably the same in the US, but can't be sure.

It isn't, at least not in any state I know of. Cities are a special type of entity unto their own. There are rare cases where they are corporations (at one point several of the major theme parks in Florida made themselves cities so it could set their own building codes, and I know of a couple cases were ambitious developers basically set up city-sized HOAs), but those are pretty WTF-ish exceptions if you read about them. In the US, the constitution gives states the power of law over anything the federal government hasn't taken for itself, and state constitutions generally do the same for local governments, giving them full weight of law.

Eh.... Most cities in the U.S. incorporate, which has legal definitions that vary state by state, but is an approximation of what he said.