She doesn't think it would be okay for her to be alone with males and has no male friends.
O_o
That is my face. Right now. Whilst reading that comment.
And what's her reasoning for this?
Honestly I've been following this and haven't chimed in because its Jebus and when it comes to women I'm not exactly Ask Abby with my advice so I'll add this little disclaimer and my theory on this
First the disclaimer: Jebus don't click on this spoiler or quote my post, what I'm about to say is purely speculation and more than likely is completely off base and you won't gain anything from reading it
Ok that out of the way here is my take on things, once again not an expert, purely speculation, and when it comes to women and relationship advice I'm not the best person to talk to.
I'm warning you Jebus don't click on this
My take on this due to her having a "no male friends or being alone with a male" and wanting him to have a similar policy pushes me towards a theory that at some point during a relationship that may or may not have been this one she either was or did have a fling or affair with someone. Either having cheated or being cheated on has caused a fairly big trust/self-esteem issues thing thats been eating away at her with this new female in his life.
Thats my take on things at least.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I'm a big believer in therapy, and also a big believer in your SO not having a say over your who your friends are pretty much no matter what.
People who go through your things looking for something damning WILL find it, one way or another. She didn't find it in your phone; make sure when you're away from home you are locking your computer and clearing your cache/history/logging out of email/whatever. Whatever you decide, she clearly thinks she's justified in rifling through your things, and she WILL FIND that thing even from before you met that made the whole thing justified, or something you said to another friend, or anything that will totally make her not the bad guy for mistrusting you in the first place.
I have had to do that. It's an awful way to live, and it's stressful. She went through your texts without your permission looking for something to use against you; in my opinion (and experience) you are now officially under surveillance.
That sounds dramatic, but that's really what she did. Was she even apologetic? All this because she's decided you're disrespecting her by choosing the wrong friend?
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Nope. She said she didnt understand why I was upset about that.
And yep all this because of that. Which I dont understand either. This friendship could potentially wedge us apart so freak and push me away. I don't get it.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Nope. She said she didnt understand why I was upset about that.
And yep all this because of that. Which I dont understand either. This friendship could potentially wedge us apart so freak and push me away. I don't get it.
She's looking at it from a perspective you can't see... because you are thinking about it rationally. I don't know what caused it, and she may not even know.
Counseling is really the only answer. If it's never dealt with every person aside from herself that is hanging out with her significant other is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. What if you start hanging out with a gay or bisexual guy? What if the girl is a lesbian? Genders is not the qualifier for "safe" and "not safe" for your partner to hang out with.
And as for "her people" agreeing with her. Of course they will, it's almost certain she phrased it more along the lines of, "Isn't it wrong for him to spend soooo much time with this girl, invite her out to things, ignore me, and text her at all hours?". Of course that sounds bad. As opposed to, "Isn't it wrong for him to have a friend that is a girl that he happens to hang with and text with?" which, of course, sounds stupid.
Presentation my friend, it's all in the wrist so to speak.
Even if you two do split... which may happen, this could easily be an unrecoverable situation, but even should that be the case, she needs to settle this stuff and get it sorted for herself. This will be poison to every future relationship unless she can get past it.
Just make sure you're prepared for counselling to potentially do no good. It's possible that she thinks the counsellor will side with her, which simply won't happen, and if she's not ready to admit that she's the one at fault, then counselling will do literally nothing. She's likely to try and make you see several different counsellors, hoping for the one that agrees with her, and when she gets backed into that corner things will go one of two ways.
Or she could be super open to the experience and it could all work out. I'm pulling for the latter. It's just that counselling and therapy are the kind of treatment that requires the patient to be honest and open to the idea that they're wrong. This goes for you, too. If other things come up, things that you may have done wrong, don't get defensive. Take them like you'd hope she would take them.
She's at least consistent. She doesn't think it would be okay for her to be alone with males and has no male friends.
I feel like I'm im alternate reality saudi arabia or something.
I honestly think this is old school thinking that comes from parents.
Also you don't know that everyone agrees with her. As thantos said she could be intentionally skewing the data selected and intention selecting the people she says agrees with her. Because the people that disagree with her obviously don't understand her situation.
Be compassionate. OP, I think you're technically correct but that's not what important here.
I haven't read every post here but based on your description of your gf, guessing she's an otherwise sweet girl who is very scared of betrayal, or having another girl fill her role. Take some time to let things settle, especially because it seems like you're genuinely fond of her in spite of this situation. You obviously feel like you can trust her and that's huge.
You could have something of value in your relationship, so avoid making major decisions while everyone feels so upset. This could be an opportunity to grow for both of you.
I had a similar experience with someone I care about - they did something extremely foolish and I had to suffer the fallout from their bad judgement. At the time I felt so angry that I had a hard time imagining our relationship going back to normal. But I thought, "I love this person, and even though I'm technically right about how they messed up and are to blame, I'm hurting myself by not forgiving them." And so I took some time to let my emotions cool - now things are back to normal and I'm so glad I restrained myself, because they saw how they messed up on their own. Your girlfriend probably will too, and she probably recognizes the self-destructive aspect of her behavior on some level. Try to diffuse the tension and calm her anxieties. Give her a chance.
She has to get counseling, period. There are trust issues. From your perspective, you think "I've never given you any reason to think I would cheat on you, and if I was going to leave you, I would just do it. This is just a friend." From her perspective, this other girl is giving you things that she isn't able to, or you would rather get from the other girl.
She's already crossed some lines by reading your texts, and if she actually blocked your friend's number from texts, that's pretty crazy stuff. She either needs counseling alone, or some sort of couple's counseling where you can talk about this stuff together.
She's at least consistent. She doesn't think it would be okay for her to be alone with males and has no male friends.
I feel like I'm im alternate reality saudi arabia or something.
Ok, the issue here isn't which one of you is right. There's nothing necessarily wrong with her thinking that. But if she thinks that? She needs to be in a relationship with someone who shares that value. Not you. Unless you're willing to adopt that same value yourself, but then do you really believe that or are you just doing it to save the relationship?
edit: to clarify, I'm not saying end the relationship right away. if she's willing to get counseling and can understand why you don't feel the same way and accept that it's ok for you to have female friends, then cool. I'm just saying that if she doesn't come around on that, you pretty much either get out or stay in and probably have things get even worse over time.
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
Be compassionate. OP, I think you're technically correct but that's not what important here.
I haven't read every post here but based on your description of your gf, guessing she's an otherwise sweet girl who is very scared of betrayal, or having another girl fill her role. Take some time to let things settle, especially because it seems like you're genuinely fond of her in spite of this situation. You obviously feel like you can trust her and that's huge.
You could have something of value in your relationship, so avoid making major decisions while everyone feels so upset. This could be an opportunity to grow for both of you.
I had a similar experience with someone I care about - they did something extremely foolish and I had to suffer the fallout from their bad judgement. At the time I felt so angry that I had a hard time imagining our relationship going back to normal. But I thought, "I love this person, and even though I'm technically right about how they messed up and are to blame, I'm hurting myself by not forgiving them." And so I took some time to let my emotions cool - now things are back to normal and I'm so glad I restrained myself, because they saw how they messed up on their own. Your girlfriend probably will too, and she probably recognizes the self-destructive aspect of her behavior on some level. Try to diffuse the tension and calm her anxieties. Give her a chance.
I agree, but I don't think this is a spiked-emotions moment of tension thing. It's a Jebus'-partner-believes-he-can't-effectively-be-friends-with 50%-of-the-human race-thing. You're being so vague about your experience it's hard to see how and where to identify similarities or differences, but she doesn't show any sign of changing her view on things and while counseling is the best shot at this, I am very skeptical it will resolve something that appears so deeply rooted in this woman's psyche.
For me, the rifling-your-communications thing is a dealbreaker, no questions asked, because I've put up with on several prior occasions. Not only is it inherently unacceptable, it also correlates with all other kinds of bad behavior.
Jebus, I'd keep in mind one thing - the reason this is problematic is not because she has individualized objections to one specific person. If she was consumed with jealousy for one friend of yours or was convinced somebody was trying to sleep with you, I could see accommodating what may be an irrational request. You may feel guilty or that you're blowing this out of proportion. Don't. This isn't a one-off thing, this is her wanting to control the kinds of friends you have, and that either needs to change or you need to get out.
I think there's good odds there's some infidelity in her parents' relationship and she is bringing all those insecurities into her relationship with you. Good luck disentangling that...
Whatever course of action you take, @JebusUD, one concern that absolutely does need to be addressed is the snooping issue. That is straight-up abusive behavior, and so far as I can tell, pretty much every person in this thread that has experienced it is emphasizing the gravity of that violation, and what it betokens for the future.
There is a reason that so many of us see it as a dealbreaker: experience.
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. I do not believe it is ok for someone to start a new relationship with a member of the opposite sex while they are dating or married to someone. It isnt realistic or even sane to cut off old friends just because you are in a relationship, but making new ones in a no no.
The question you have to ask, is why? What is missing in your life that requires you to fill it with someone new?
This isnt a case of some mutual friends where you happen to hang out with a new girl sometimes because shes friend of a friend. Shes your friend, its a new relationship you chose to start. Time in your life you now want to dedicate to the relationship with her. Thoughts you have in your head about her, or for her.
I dunno, it just is something that seems wrong to me. I would never start a new relationship with a girl while married. Even if that relationship was completely kosher.
I also think its 100% normal for your girlfriend to feel this insecurity or jealousy about it. Because all the questions I have about what are you filling in your life with this new person, she probably has too. And her answer is likely whatever she isnt providing.
Is she 100% wrong in reading your texts? Yes. But it doesnt meant what shes feeling isnt justified.
And regardless of whether or not folks here agree if your doing anything wrong, you are 100% hurting her. She is in pain because of this. So if you care about her, you have to ask yourself, what is this new friendship worth? Is it worth hurting the woman you love? Making her cry? Creating this rift between you two?
If the answer is yes, I wonder what makes this new friendship so special, or what makes your current relationship so worthless? If the answer is no, then I would cut off non work activities and texting with this new girl.
Is the girlfriend's happiness worth Jebus not being allowed to have platonic relationships with whomever he wants to?
Also, if your entire world revolves around your significant other and you don't allow yourself to go outside of that, it's a red flag. No doubt you should be spending a lot of time with your significant other, but denying yourself new friendships just because you're in a romantic relationship is really silly.
Yes, a new female friend who isnt very important to you is worth sacrificing to make someone you think about marrying not cry and to not damage that relationship.
If it isnt, either the person is more important then let on, or the relationship should be ended.
Your entire world doesnt have to revolve around them. You can safely have tons of guy friends or female friends you've always had. But a new female in your life is absolutely bound to make a girlfriend worried and upset. So why do that?
Also..
Where do you draw the line?
Going to a show just the two of you?
Going out to dinner just the two of you?
Going out for drinks just the two of you?
Going on vacation just the two of you?
There is obviously a line that exists. For his girlfriend it was probably them hanging out together outside of work without her. Can't blame her.
And regardless of whether or not folks here agree if your doing anything wrong, you are 100% hurting her. She is in pain because of this. So if you care about her, you have to ask yourself, what is this new friendship worth? Is it worth hurting the woman you love? Making her cry? Creating this rift between you two?
This is textbook emotional abuse.
"You're doing this completely innocuous thing that involves having a life outside of me, and it makes me unhappy. Why would you do something that makes me unhappy?" It's incredibly manipulative, and not okay in any way, shape, or form.
Yes, a new female friend who isnt very important to you is worth sacrificing to make someone you think about marrying not cry and to not damage that relationship.
If it isnt, either the person is more important then let on, or the relationship should be ended.
Your entire world doesnt have to revolve around them. You can safely have tons of guy friends or female friends you've always had. But a new female in your life is absolutely bound to make a girlfriend worried and upset. So why do that?
So... if someone is bisexual, they're just not allowed to make new friends at all? Or does this rule only apply to heterosexual couples? And if so, why?
I'm not dating she should hold him hostage with her emotions but if be cares about her he should care that hes hurting her and determine if this new person is worth that
Friendships just don't happen you have to actively encourage that relationship so the question is why do you need this new friendship? What is missing from your life that you actively created a relationship with this new person?
A bisexual probably shouldn't make new friends with someone ego might be sexually attracted to them, no.
Listen he's not a bad person. But she is complete normal for feeling the way she does and if he doesnt want her feeling that way he should stop it.
To clarify I dont think either values are right or wrong but it's going to be hard to be in a relationship when they conflict
She probably cant change how she feels but YOU can just not have new female friends. But of that's a sacrifice your not willing to make I doubt the relationship will work
Yeah, she isn't cheating on me. Pretty much the last thing I would expect to have happened.
I'm 26.
We have talked about marriage, but we aren't religious, we don't have a lot of money, and we have never been big into tradition. We both have anthropology degrees, and I think that puts these kinds of institutions in a different light. Lately she has been saying that we should get married more, but we just don't have money even for a simple wedding. Both of our cars are probably going to break soon and that is going to take most of our saved up money.
This is the only real relationship I have been in, but I just don't know. We have a life together. I habe a hard time even thinking about how I would do even day to day things without her.
And she comes home from work after I talk to you people or my friends and feel so sure that I am right. That I haven't done wrong. But I talk to her and then I feel so confused. Everyone she works with agrees with her. That I am disrespecting her and her feelings. And her best friend agreed that I shouldn't be putting myself in that situation( though her bestfriends husband, who is my good friend, seemed to think that I did fine). And her mother agrees with her. That hurts since I really like her parents and we get along so well. They have really been a second family to me.
But they are ready to pack her shit up and have here out of here. It seems as if everyone I talk to agrees with me. But everyone she talks to agrees with her.
I just feel like I'd be lost without her.
Before I jump on your case Jebus, I want to ask a few questions:
1) you said your GF has a standing invitation to go with you to games night. Does this mean that she went a couple times and didn't like it and then you made that offer? Does it mean you have only asked her once if she wanted to go and she said no so you don't ask anymore? What's the deal there?
2) she brought up counseling and you were resistant because you thought you didn't have a problem. How did you specifically respond to her?
3) When she brings up marriage the following are your responses "we don't have enough money" or "our cars are PROBABLY going to break soon"? Also, when did she start talking about marriage more frequently?
I'm seeing a lot of red flags on YOUR part that would tell me that maybe you're coasting through this thing. Maybe waiting for something better.
I used to tell my ex wife I hated kids and never wanted them. Turns out I just didn't want them with her.
Total dick.
Not trying to push any of my past experiences onto you or say you're a total dick.
Disrupter, that sort of attitude would foster some serious codependency issues.
Regardless, if you're right, a couple's counselor would agree with you. So the fact is that he still needs to see somebody. More importantly, the counselor will be able to hear both sides of this story and serve as a neutral party.
But she is complete normal for feeling the way she does and if he doesnt want her feeling that way he should stop it.
It is unreasonable to suggest that being in a relationship means you're suddenly not allowed to make new friendships with people of the opposite gender. You're acting like him trying to be friends with this girl (or just becoming friends with her and yes that happens) is somehow a bad thing?
It's perfectly fine to develop friendships while in a relationship, regardless of gender. If his girlfriend had felt awkward about it, rather than going off and abusing his trust by looking through his personal things, she could have discussed it with him in a rational manner, and taken him up on hanging out with his friend. Seeing his friend and her boyfriend interact on a purely "friends" level, and maybe even trying to befriend the girl herself, could certainly help dispel her fears.
So it's emotional abuse to feel insecure or sad?
Friendships just don't happen you have to actively encourage that relationship so the question is why do you need this new friendship? What is missing from your life that you actively created a relationship with this new person?
Well. Let's say you like playing video games. Your significant other does not.
So do you just...not play games anymore? Or just play them all alone?
Chances are your significant other will not share 100% of your interests, so you seek them with friends. That way you have someone to share the interests with, and you won't have to ramble to your SO about something they don't give a shit about.
The OP stated that he and this new friend talk mostly about non fiction literature, something his girlfriend does not read.
Friendships just don't happen you have to actively encourage that relationship so the question is why do you need this new friendship? What is missing from your life that you actively created a relationship with this new person?
The thing is, while this is how you think about it and this is probably how his girlfriend is thinking about it, that's not how things work. People don't make friends with people because they're missing something from other people in their lives (and especially, friends do not replace girlfriends). Yeah, sometimes friends you make happen to fill in a gap other people don't, but normally you just make friends with someone because they are enjoyable to be around. I don't think he really even went out of his way to be friends with this person, because they worked together.
Now see, the thing is, the girlfriend being somewhat jealous of this situation is a relatively common reaction. Most girlfriends would have a conversation like "I don't want to keep you from having friends, but I feel like I'm not being included enough, she's getting more time with you, etc. so we should do more stuff together even if you don't think I'd be interested in what you're doing." Something like that, where the couple figures out a solution together by talking through it. The thing is, A) she thinks him not being allowed to have platonic female friends AT ALL is normal and the solution to this problem (it isn't, by the way), the primary way she decided to handle this situation was by breaching Jebus's privacy and going through his phone for evidence, which she hasn't even apologized for doing, and C) a straight guy having a female friend does not inherently mean they have a problem with their girlfriend, or want to sleep with the other girl, and most rational people should eventually realize this (though I won't say it's easy), especially after admitting that they didn't even find any evidence of that during their breach of trust. Hopefully by going through counseling his girlfriend can come to that realization, but at the moment she seems to feel like it's completely reasonable to keep her boyfriend from having female friends at all. It's not. If you're in a relationship and feel like you're not getting enough attention from your partner, you talk with them about it and figure out how to make it so you DO get enough attention. You don't just tell them they can't have female friends (or friends in general, as the case often is).
I dunno, I hope this made sense. The main thing I want to get across is, Jebus, she's going about this totally wrong, and so is anybody else telling their significant other they can't have friends. I would go through the counseling with her, because it's very possible you guys can work this out. A couple things I would definitely do is invite her to games night again and if she agrees to go, try to include her in the game as much as possible, help her out, etc. Make it a thing the two of you are doing together with other people rather than something she's just one of several people participating in. And maybe see if you can set aside a similar night for the two of you during the week, where you always do something fun together, as a couple. I would also see if maybe when you're reading a book, you can tell her what you're reading about and get her input on the subject. Then she won't feel like talking about that stuff is something you can only do with someone else.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I'm not dating she should hold him hostage with her emotions but if be cares about her he should care that hes hurting her and determine if this new person is worth that
Friendships just don't happen you have to actively encourage that relationship so the question is why do you need this new friendship? What is missing from your life that you actively created a relationship with this new person?
A bisexual probably shouldn't make new friends with someone ego might be sexually attracted to them, no.
Listen he's not a bad person. But she is complete normal for feeling the way she does and if he doesnt want her feeling that way he should stop it.
This is like really embarressing old fashioned thinking.
The bisexual example is the perfect example. You are saying, once they are in a relationship, their life stops. They aren't allowed to meet anyone new because they are going to be sexually attracted to them.
What if the couple moved state or country? Neither of them would be "allowed" to meet new people. Heck circle of friends grow and change over time, you're bound to lose a few. You would literally stagnate and your relationship would become boring, time apart is just as import as time together.
Oh and by the by, just because someone is a lady, and I'm a straight dude, doesn't mean I want to fuck em. It just means they're a lady, and if I'm friends with them, all that means is that they are a cool person.
Look, maybe you have trouble see the difference between a lady and someone that you are sexually attracted to. But many don't. Why do we need to conform to your values. If you don't have lady friends because all you want to do is sleep with them and you control it by not being friends with them. That's great, good on you for being faithful in a relationship. But I've met heaps of ladies since I've started met my girlfriend, and yet I only want one person to be my girlfriend.
Realize that your girlfriend may very well have a legitimate reason for concern. You saying that nothing is going on means little if what's happening is your relationship is in a dull rut and you are raving about a new funny girl at work and start hanging out with her. People fall out of love and fall for new people without meaning to all the time after all. It's even possible that she has picked up on some vibe from workplace girl that she might have a slight romantic interest that you haven't noticed. Approaching this from the viewpoint that it's all your girlfriends fault wont lead anywhere except to a break up.
Not saying you can't have female friends. In fact I think having friends of the opposite sex makes you a better person and it's something everyone should have. Just saying that having fun with them while your girlfriend is feeling like a dull old domestic cow wont work. There is some invisible score keeping going on here and your girlfriend clearly has the impression she is loosing in the intimacy and fun department.
So yeah, counseling or at the very least several good talks and come up with some kind of solution. You need to have your personal phone respected and she needs to not feel like she is being left behind.
Im not saying the op is wrong im saying what his girlfriend is feeling isnt wrong. Some people have different values or feelings about what is appropriate.
Imagine you have a married friend. You all meet for drinks. Suddenly he shows up with a new girl you've never met before and not his wife. You honestly don't think that would raise some eyebrows?
The point isn't that it's the right or wrong mentality. The point is its her mentality and it's completely common. And it will be very hard to maintain a relationship with her if she has that mentality and you want to start hanging out with new girls.
I'm not going to debate or defend that mentality, that's not the point. Op and her doing consoling is good, but I think he needs to prepare himself for the choice between being able to meet and hang out with new girls and staying in his relationship.
Because i don't think it's something the gf needs to fix, it's conflicting views on what is appropriate. She did however overreact by not talking to the op about it and looking through his texts
All that really matters is whether they can come to a consensus on what's right in their relationship. If he decides to humor her but doesn't see anything wrong with having female friends, then he doesn't really share her value on the matter and this will just lead to resentment and frustration. If she pretends that she's ok with him hanging out with female friends but doesn't really believe it's ok, the root issue still hasn't been solved and she'll continue to be insecure and jealous and will almost certainly continue to invade his privacy. The only way this relationship stays healthy is if they can both honestly come to an agreement on this. Counseling certainly might help with that. Debating back and forth in the thread about what justification either has for what they've done or said is completely beside the point of them needing to reach a consensus to keep this relationship healthy and happy. If you can't come to that consensus, then it's time to be honest and strong and recognize that for your own mental health it's time for you to leave and find someone else that better shares your values.
Imagine you have a married friend. You all meet for drinks. Suddenly he shows up with a new girl you've never met before and not his wife. You honestly don't think that would raise some eyebrows?
If he showed up with some girl and acted normal like she was just a friend? Not at all.
If he showed up and this new girl was all over him like he was wearing a suit made of 100 dollar bills in a strip club? Then yes it would raise some eyebrows.
People walk into places with other people all the time. Shockingly those people are sometimes of a gender that they are sexually attracted to. Even more shocking is that they don't want to actually have sex with them!
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
There are a few bottom lines here. This is one of them:
Ok, the issue here isn't which one of you is right. There's nothing necessarily wrong with her thinking that. But if she thinks that? She needs to be in a relationship with someone who shares that value. Not you. Unless you're willing to adopt that same value yourself, but then do you really believe that or are you just doing it to save the relationship?
The other is the texts thing. This is such a big bright red flag, and she doesn't even see what's WRONG with it. So many people have had so many bad experiences with people who exhibit this kind of behavior. For some, it starts with reading texts or "well you just happened to still be logged into your email" and becomes "who were you talking to on the phone?" and "what are you writing?" and "why do you need to call them?"
For others (like me) it came associated with a whole bunch of other bad behavior. I didn't have a phone that could send texts at the time... fucker was going through my AIM chatlogs on my laptop, and then yelling at me about things he found there that were really pretty innocuous. He was just so bent on criminalizing me that after a while he would yell at me about things I talked about with someone that I had talked about with him. I finally started locking my computer, and he was upset about that, too. It was one of many ways he isolated me from my friends, first male and then eventually female too. The thing is, he just brought it up one day like "oh I just happened upon this folder today while you were at work and why were you talking to X about Y last night?" I have no idea how long he was reading them before he said anything at all.
So when you say "my girlfriend said she went through my texts to find dirt on me but didn't but she's mad anyway" you are going to have 60 people here telling you to sort that shit out FIRST, because this is straight up bad behavior that is not acceptable in this day and age for very good reason. There are lots of people out there like Disruptor for your girlfriend to date who will absolutely agree and they will live happily ever after never having a meaningful relationship with anyone other than their SO and that is FINE, and the same is true for those who take your (and most of this forum's) view. Hell, maybe one of you will even come around to the other's point of view with time. But her reading your texts is a trust issue that will NOT go away for as long as you are leaving your house without her, especially if she never sees why it was wrong, and a great many of us here have direct experience with the precise road down which that can go.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
we have agreed to do counseling. She has said she felt bad about the text thing. And she said she didnt block my texts. She read all this. We are trying to work it out and it is going well so far. We have agreed not to talk to anyone else about it except the counselor.
So you won't see me posting or reading any more for a while. Ill come back and update sometime later after things are more resolved.
Thanks everyone.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
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GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
we have agreed to do counseling. She has said she felt bad about the text thing. And she said she didnt block my texts. She read all this. We are trying to work it out and it is going well so far. We have agreed not to talk to anyone else about it except the counselor.
So you won't see me posting or reading any more for a while. Ill come back and update sometime later after things are more resolved.
Thanks everyone.
Hope all goes well for you and your g/f Jebus. Counseling is definitely a good first step regardless of what the outcome might be but I think I can say for all of us here that we hope it turns out well for the both of you.
So. After 4 therapy sessions, which I was dreading, but were actually very helpful and pleasant, and much more calm discussion, we have come to a sort of understanding. So everything is right in the jungle again.
I swear, they pick those guys based on how calming their voice is and how pleasant they are to talk to. The man is truly a craftsman.
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Therapy really is worth the expense and the time, and I'm really glad you seem to be working for you guys. Keep us posted if you'd like, we'd love to hear any news.
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Honestly I've been following this and haven't chimed in because its Jebus and when it comes to women I'm not exactly Ask Abby with my advice so I'll add this little disclaimer and my theory on this
First the disclaimer:
Jebus don't click on this spoiler or quote my post, what I'm about to say is purely speculation and more than likely is completely off base and you won't gain anything from reading it
Ok that out of the way here is my take on things, once again not an expert, purely speculation, and when it comes to women and relationship advice I'm not the best person to talk to.
Thats my take on things at least.
People who go through your things looking for something damning WILL find it, one way or another. She didn't find it in your phone; make sure when you're away from home you are locking your computer and clearing your cache/history/logging out of email/whatever. Whatever you decide, she clearly thinks she's justified in rifling through your things, and she WILL FIND that thing even from before you met that made the whole thing justified, or something you said to another friend, or anything that will totally make her not the bad guy for mistrusting you in the first place.
I have had to do that. It's an awful way to live, and it's stressful. She went through your texts without your permission looking for something to use against you; in my opinion (and experience) you are now officially under surveillance.
That sounds dramatic, but that's really what she did. Was she even apologetic? All this because she's decided you're disrespecting her by choosing the wrong friend?
And yep all this because of that. Which I dont understand either. This friendship could potentially wedge us apart so freak and push me away. I don't get it.
but they're listening to every word I say
She's looking at it from a perspective you can't see... because you are thinking about it rationally. I don't know what caused it, and she may not even know.
Counseling is really the only answer. If it's never dealt with every person aside from herself that is hanging out with her significant other is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. What if you start hanging out with a gay or bisexual guy? What if the girl is a lesbian? Genders is not the qualifier for "safe" and "not safe" for your partner to hang out with.
And as for "her people" agreeing with her. Of course they will, it's almost certain she phrased it more along the lines of, "Isn't it wrong for him to spend soooo much time with this girl, invite her out to things, ignore me, and text her at all hours?". Of course that sounds bad. As opposed to, "Isn't it wrong for him to have a friend that is a girl that he happens to hang with and text with?" which, of course, sounds stupid.
Presentation my friend, it's all in the wrist so to speak.
Even if you two do split... which may happen, this could easily be an unrecoverable situation, but even should that be the case, she needs to settle this stuff and get it sorted for herself. This will be poison to every future relationship unless she can get past it.
Or she could be super open to the experience and it could all work out. I'm pulling for the latter. It's just that counselling and therapy are the kind of treatment that requires the patient to be honest and open to the idea that they're wrong. This goes for you, too. If other things come up, things that you may have done wrong, don't get defensive. Take them like you'd hope she would take them.
Also you don't know that everyone agrees with her. As thantos said she could be intentionally skewing the data selected and intention selecting the people she says agrees with her. Because the people that disagree with her obviously don't understand her situation.
Satans..... hints.....
I haven't read every post here but based on your description of your gf, guessing she's an otherwise sweet girl who is very scared of betrayal, or having another girl fill her role. Take some time to let things settle, especially because it seems like you're genuinely fond of her in spite of this situation. You obviously feel like you can trust her and that's huge.
You could have something of value in your relationship, so avoid making major decisions while everyone feels so upset. This could be an opportunity to grow for both of you.
I had a similar experience with someone I care about - they did something extremely foolish and I had to suffer the fallout from their bad judgement. At the time I felt so angry that I had a hard time imagining our relationship going back to normal. But I thought, "I love this person, and even though I'm technically right about how they messed up and are to blame, I'm hurting myself by not forgiving them." And so I took some time to let my emotions cool - now things are back to normal and I'm so glad I restrained myself, because they saw how they messed up on their own. Your girlfriend probably will too, and she probably recognizes the self-destructive aspect of her behavior on some level. Try to diffuse the tension and calm her anxieties. Give her a chance.
She's already crossed some lines by reading your texts, and if she actually blocked your friend's number from texts, that's pretty crazy stuff. She either needs counseling alone, or some sort of couple's counseling where you can talk about this stuff together.
Ok, the issue here isn't which one of you is right. There's nothing necessarily wrong with her thinking that. But if she thinks that? She needs to be in a relationship with someone who shares that value. Not you. Unless you're willing to adopt that same value yourself, but then do you really believe that or are you just doing it to save the relationship?
edit: to clarify, I'm not saying end the relationship right away. if she's willing to get counseling and can understand why you don't feel the same way and accept that it's ok for you to have female friends, then cool. I'm just saying that if she doesn't come around on that, you pretty much either get out or stay in and probably have things get even worse over time.
I agree, but I don't think this is a spiked-emotions moment of tension thing. It's a Jebus'-partner-believes-he-can't-effectively-be-friends-with 50%-of-the-human race-thing. You're being so vague about your experience it's hard to see how and where to identify similarities or differences, but she doesn't show any sign of changing her view on things and while counseling is the best shot at this, I am very skeptical it will resolve something that appears so deeply rooted in this woman's psyche.
For me, the rifling-your-communications thing is a dealbreaker, no questions asked, because I've put up with on several prior occasions. Not only is it inherently unacceptable, it also correlates with all other kinds of bad behavior.
Jebus, I'd keep in mind one thing - the reason this is problematic is not because she has individualized objections to one specific person. If she was consumed with jealousy for one friend of yours or was convinced somebody was trying to sleep with you, I could see accommodating what may be an irrational request. You may feel guilty or that you're blowing this out of proportion. Don't. This isn't a one-off thing, this is her wanting to control the kinds of friends you have, and that either needs to change or you need to get out.
I think there's good odds there's some infidelity in her parents' relationship and she is bringing all those insecurities into her relationship with you. Good luck disentangling that...
There is a reason that so many of us see it as a dealbreaker: experience.
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The question you have to ask, is why? What is missing in your life that requires you to fill it with someone new?
This isnt a case of some mutual friends where you happen to hang out with a new girl sometimes because shes friend of a friend. Shes your friend, its a new relationship you chose to start. Time in your life you now want to dedicate to the relationship with her. Thoughts you have in your head about her, or for her.
I dunno, it just is something that seems wrong to me. I would never start a new relationship with a girl while married. Even if that relationship was completely kosher.
I also think its 100% normal for your girlfriend to feel this insecurity or jealousy about it. Because all the questions I have about what are you filling in your life with this new person, she probably has too. And her answer is likely whatever she isnt providing.
Is she 100% wrong in reading your texts? Yes. But it doesnt meant what shes feeling isnt justified.
And regardless of whether or not folks here agree if your doing anything wrong, you are 100% hurting her. She is in pain because of this. So if you care about her, you have to ask yourself, what is this new friendship worth? Is it worth hurting the woman you love? Making her cry? Creating this rift between you two?
If the answer is yes, I wonder what makes this new friendship so special, or what makes your current relationship so worthless? If the answer is no, then I would cut off non work activities and texting with this new girl.
Also, if your entire world revolves around your significant other and you don't allow yourself to go outside of that, it's a red flag. No doubt you should be spending a lot of time with your significant other, but denying yourself new friendships just because you're in a romantic relationship is really silly.
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If it isnt, either the person is more important then let on, or the relationship should be ended.
Your entire world doesnt have to revolve around them. You can safely have tons of guy friends or female friends you've always had. But a new female in your life is absolutely bound to make a girlfriend worried and upset. So why do that?
Also..
Where do you draw the line?
Going to a show just the two of you?
Going out to dinner just the two of you?
Going out for drinks just the two of you?
Going on vacation just the two of you?
There is obviously a line that exists. For his girlfriend it was probably them hanging out together outside of work without her. Can't blame her.
"You're doing this completely innocuous thing that involves having a life outside of me, and it makes me unhappy. Why would you do something that makes me unhappy?" It's incredibly manipulative, and not okay in any way, shape, or form.
So... if someone is bisexual, they're just not allowed to make new friends at all? Or does this rule only apply to heterosexual couples? And if so, why?
I'm not dating she should hold him hostage with her emotions but if be cares about her he should care that hes hurting her and determine if this new person is worth that
Friendships just don't happen you have to actively encourage that relationship so the question is why do you need this new friendship? What is missing from your life that you actively created a relationship with this new person?
A bisexual probably shouldn't make new friends with someone ego might be sexually attracted to them, no.
Listen he's not a bad person. But she is complete normal for feeling the way she does and if he doesnt want her feeling that way he should stop it.
She probably cant change how she feels but YOU can just not have new female friends. But of that's a sacrifice your not willing to make I doubt the relationship will work
Before I jump on your case Jebus, I want to ask a few questions:
1) you said your GF has a standing invitation to go with you to games night. Does this mean that she went a couple times and didn't like it and then you made that offer? Does it mean you have only asked her once if she wanted to go and she said no so you don't ask anymore? What's the deal there?
2) she brought up counseling and you were resistant because you thought you didn't have a problem. How did you specifically respond to her?
3) When she brings up marriage the following are your responses "we don't have enough money" or "our cars are PROBABLY going to break soon"? Also, when did she start talking about marriage more frequently?
I'm seeing a lot of red flags on YOUR part that would tell me that maybe you're coasting through this thing. Maybe waiting for something better.
I used to tell my ex wife I hated kids and never wanted them. Turns out I just didn't want them with her.
Total dick.
Not trying to push any of my past experiences onto you or say you're a total dick.
Regardless, if you're right, a couple's counselor would agree with you. So the fact is that he still needs to see somebody. More importantly, the counselor will be able to hear both sides of this story and serve as a neutral party.
It is unreasonable to suggest that being in a relationship means you're suddenly not allowed to make new friendships with people of the opposite gender. You're acting like him trying to be friends with this girl (or just becoming friends with her and yes that happens) is somehow a bad thing?
It's perfectly fine to develop friendships while in a relationship, regardless of gender. If his girlfriend had felt awkward about it, rather than going off and abusing his trust by looking through his personal things, she could have discussed it with him in a rational manner, and taken him up on hanging out with his friend. Seeing his friend and her boyfriend interact on a purely "friends" level, and maybe even trying to befriend the girl herself, could certainly help dispel her fears.
Well. Let's say you like playing video games. Your significant other does not.
So do you just...not play games anymore? Or just play them all alone?
Chances are your significant other will not share 100% of your interests, so you seek them with friends. That way you have someone to share the interests with, and you won't have to ramble to your SO about something they don't give a shit about.
The OP stated that he and this new friend talk mostly about non fiction literature, something his girlfriend does not read.
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The thing is, while this is how you think about it and this is probably how his girlfriend is thinking about it, that's not how things work. People don't make friends with people because they're missing something from other people in their lives (and especially, friends do not replace girlfriends). Yeah, sometimes friends you make happen to fill in a gap other people don't, but normally you just make friends with someone because they are enjoyable to be around. I don't think he really even went out of his way to be friends with this person, because they worked together.
Now see, the thing is, the girlfriend being somewhat jealous of this situation is a relatively common reaction. Most girlfriends would have a conversation like "I don't want to keep you from having friends, but I feel like I'm not being included enough, she's getting more time with you, etc. so we should do more stuff together even if you don't think I'd be interested in what you're doing." Something like that, where the couple figures out a solution together by talking through it. The thing is, A) she thinks him not being allowed to have platonic female friends AT ALL is normal and the solution to this problem (it isn't, by the way),
I dunno, I hope this made sense. The main thing I want to get across is, Jebus, she's going about this totally wrong, and so is anybody else telling their significant other they can't have friends. I would go through the counseling with her, because it's very possible you guys can work this out. A couple things I would definitely do is invite her to games night again and if she agrees to go, try to include her in the game as much as possible, help her out, etc. Make it a thing the two of you are doing together with other people rather than something she's just one of several people participating in. And maybe see if you can set aside a similar night for the two of you during the week, where you always do something fun together, as a couple. I would also see if maybe when you're reading a book, you can tell her what you're reading about and get her input on the subject. Then she won't feel like talking about that stuff is something you can only do with someone else.
This is like really embarressing old fashioned thinking.
The bisexual example is the perfect example. You are saying, once they are in a relationship, their life stops. They aren't allowed to meet anyone new because they are going to be sexually attracted to them.
What if the couple moved state or country? Neither of them would be "allowed" to meet new people. Heck circle of friends grow and change over time, you're bound to lose a few. You would literally stagnate and your relationship would become boring, time apart is just as import as time together.
Oh and by the by, just because someone is a lady, and I'm a straight dude, doesn't mean I want to fuck em. It just means they're a lady, and if I'm friends with them, all that means is that they are a cool person.
Look, maybe you have trouble see the difference between a lady and someone that you are sexually attracted to. But many don't. Why do we need to conform to your values. If you don't have lady friends because all you want to do is sleep with them and you control it by not being friends with them. That's great, good on you for being faithful in a relationship. But I've met heaps of ladies since I've started met my girlfriend, and yet I only want one person to be my girlfriend.
Satans..... hints.....
Feeling sad is a by product of feeling insecure.
Feeling insecure is a problem that can be addressed, and it has far more wide ranging problems than just feeling jealous of other women.
If she stopped feeling insecure her entire quality of life would drastically improve.
It's why people are suggesting counselling, so she can get over these issues.
Satans..... hints.....
Not saying you can't have female friends. In fact I think having friends of the opposite sex makes you a better person and it's something everyone should have. Just saying that having fun with them while your girlfriend is feeling like a dull old domestic cow wont work. There is some invisible score keeping going on here and your girlfriend clearly has the impression she is loosing in the intimacy and fun department.
So yeah, counseling or at the very least several good talks and come up with some kind of solution. You need to have your personal phone respected and she needs to not feel like she is being left behind.
Imagine you have a married friend. You all meet for drinks. Suddenly he shows up with a new girl you've never met before and not his wife. You honestly don't think that would raise some eyebrows?
The point isn't that it's the right or wrong mentality. The point is its her mentality and it's completely common. And it will be very hard to maintain a relationship with her if she has that mentality and you want to start hanging out with new girls.
I'm not going to debate or defend that mentality, that's not the point. Op and her doing consoling is good, but I think he needs to prepare himself for the choice between being able to meet and hang out with new girls and staying in his relationship.
Because i don't think it's something the gf needs to fix, it's conflicting views on what is appropriate. She did however overreact by not talking to the op about it and looking through his texts
If he showed up with some girl and acted normal like she was just a friend? Not at all.
If he showed up and this new girl was all over him like he was wearing a suit made of 100 dollar bills in a strip club? Then yes it would raise some eyebrows.
People walk into places with other people all the time. Shockingly those people are sometimes of a gender that they are sexually attracted to. Even more shocking is that they don't want to actually have sex with them!
The other is the texts thing. This is such a big bright red flag, and she doesn't even see what's WRONG with it. So many people have had so many bad experiences with people who exhibit this kind of behavior. For some, it starts with reading texts or "well you just happened to still be logged into your email" and becomes "who were you talking to on the phone?" and "what are you writing?" and "why do you need to call them?"
For others (like me) it came associated with a whole bunch of other bad behavior. I didn't have a phone that could send texts at the time... fucker was going through my AIM chatlogs on my laptop, and then yelling at me about things he found there that were really pretty innocuous. He was just so bent on criminalizing me that after a while he would yell at me about things I talked about with someone that I had talked about with him. I finally started locking my computer, and he was upset about that, too. It was one of many ways he isolated me from my friends, first male and then eventually female too. The thing is, he just brought it up one day like "oh I just happened upon this folder today while you were at work and why were you talking to X about Y last night?" I have no idea how long he was reading them before he said anything at all.
So when you say "my girlfriend said she went through my texts to find dirt on me but didn't but she's mad anyway" you are going to have 60 people here telling you to sort that shit out FIRST, because this is straight up bad behavior that is not acceptable in this day and age for very good reason. There are lots of people out there like Disruptor for your girlfriend to date who will absolutely agree and they will live happily ever after never having a meaningful relationship with anyone other than their SO and that is FINE, and the same is true for those who take your (and most of this forum's) view. Hell, maybe one of you will even come around to the other's point of view with time. But her reading your texts is a trust issue that will NOT go away for as long as you are leaving your house without her, especially if she never sees why it was wrong, and a great many of us here have direct experience with the precise road down which that can go.
So you won't see me posting or reading any more for a while. Ill come back and update sometime later after things are more resolved.
Thanks everyone.
but they're listening to every word I say
Hope all goes well for you and your g/f Jebus. Counseling is definitely a good first step regardless of what the outcome might be but I think I can say for all of us here that we hope it turns out well for the both of you.
I swear, they pick those guys based on how calming their voice is and how pleasant they are to talk to. The man is truly a craftsman.
but they're listening to every word I say