The things you didn't know about Ecco the Dolphin (And others)

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  • AntishowAntishow Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    setrajonas wrote: »
    Who remembers those three massive jumps in the one Atlantean level? It took me about an hour and a half to do those
    setrajonas wrote: »
    Then it turns out there's a statue that you can activate that opens up a shortcut, completely bypassing them.

    D:

    Antishow on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    This site on Ecco has always been pretty awesome. They've got video of Ecco for the Saturn now! Comics too.

    Ecco for the Dreamcast is sorely underrated. The beauty of its later level, with the floating bubbles, has rarely been better in this or the next generation. Also, Tom Baker narrating.

    Æthelred on
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  • GimeCGimeC Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    A question/request, TSR: Is there any good development stuff on Ristar that would be worth explaining? Because I loves me some Ristar.

    I'm not going to read the Ecco stuff, though, because I'm in the midst of playing it.

    GimeC on
  • FoodFood Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I had Ecco (I think it was the tides of time) for Game Gear when I was a kid. I didn't understand it very well, but I do remember it being extremely trippy. Is the story in that one related at all to the Genesis ones? I remember a level where you swam around in patches of water floating in mid-air and dodged giant flying jellyfish, and it doesn't look like you mentioned that in your synopsis.

    Food on
  • Drunk_caterpillarDrunk_caterpillar Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    God, these threads are so fucking boss.

    Drunk_caterpillar on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm glad I still have my copies of Ecco and Tides of Time.

    Malkor on
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  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Antishow wrote: »
    setrajonas wrote: »
    Who remembers those three massive jumps in the one Atlantean level? It took me about an hour and a half to do those
    setrajonas wrote: »
    Then it turns out there's a statue that you can activate that opens up a shortcut, completely bypassing them.

    D:

    Yes!

    But hell, nailing those jumps felt good.
    Food wrote: »
    I had Ecco (I think it was the tides of time) for Game Gear when I was a kid. I didn't understand it very well, but I do remember it being extremely trippy. Is the story in that one related at all to the Genesis ones? I remember a level where you swam around in patches of water floating in mid-air and dodged giant flying jellyfish, and it doesn't look like you mentioned that in your synopsis.

    It's in this part of Ecco 2:

    There, trapped underwater without his special abilities (which included the ability to breath underwater), Ecco is greeted by a strange Dolphin. The Dolphin, named Trellia, explains that she comes from far into the future, and needs to show Ecco what happens. She grabs him and teleports him to a strange future where Dolphins have evolved and become Earth's dominant species. They have gained the ability to fly using telepathy, and have constructed vast aqua tubes that connect the entire planet. Whats more, all of Earth lives in harmony.

    e2goodfutureyg2.png
    The Future

    And that's where you meed Medusa, that big-ass scary jellyfish.

    Monaro on
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  • Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    God, I remember dying so many times in the "Sky Tides" level...

    Mei Hikari on
  • gtrmpgtrmp Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    crestasions

    "crustaceans"
    [/pedantic]

    gtrmp on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I rented Ecco 1 way back in the day simply because it had really good graphics. I remember not being very good at it or at least not knowing wtf I was supposed to do in order to proceed through the game. I think I took it back the very next day.

    Never would I have imagined that the story (wasn't even aware it had a story) was so good!

    Caveman Paws on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    So before I move onto Ecco 2, there is a few other thing of intrest to talk about with regard to Ecco 1.

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    The Stomach

    Talk about a mysterious level. This level only appears in the Japanese Mega Drive version of Ecco 1. The Japanese MD version of Ecco 1 was released first, and this level was completely removed from all other versions. It takes place AFTER the final battle with the vortex queen - in the japanese version, when you beat the game, it transports you to this odd level before the end animation and credits roll. It not only isn't present in the US version (both Genesis and Sega CD) nor the Japanese Mega CD version, but the objects and tiles that are used in this level aren't even in the other versions.

    This is especially odd, because other stuff left over from development (like hidden messages that I'll talk about in a bit) are still left in. To clarify, the total removal of this level is extra strange. As I explained in the Sonic thread, when game companies remove content, they don't normally remove it, but rather remove all references to it. The art, logic, and level structures are normally left in because removing data screws up pointer information. For this level to be removed, a ton of work must have been done.

    Beyond this fact alone, the level is outright bizzare.

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    The level begins with no art. It's simply a black background. Since the level takes place after you fight the vortex queen, the palette is all screwed up, with blues being replaced by teals.

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    After swimming through the black void a bit, the actual level begins. First thing you notice is the awesome background... this art is never seen again. It's not used in ecco 1, nor is it in Ecco 2. Whats even odder is the style that this art is drawn in... Ecco 1 featured a very flat visual style. Ecco 2 used a more organic, round style with a lot more shading and highlighting. This background looks more like Ecco 2 art than Ecco 1 art... so why is it in Ecco 1?

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    As you begin to swim around, you notice just how strange this level is. Look at that level structure... in case it's not apparent, everything grey ISN'T background. They are walls that you can't cross. This level layout is unlike anything seen in either ecco game. It's downright weird, almost like it was just randomly placed.

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    I mean, seriously, look at that level design. What the fuck?

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    Things get really weird now. You eventually find some jelly fish in the level... both normal kind, and vortex jelly fish. Whats weird however, is that the vortex jelly fish are from Ecco 2. They are drawn in ecco 2 style (with a rounder appearance), yet they appear in ecco 1. Odd.

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    This object appears near the bottom of the level. What it's supposed to be is anyone's guess. You can swim below it and pick it up, like a rock.

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    When you push it against the tubes/walls, they rumble and then break away. this action is never seen in ecco 1, and is only seen in Ecco 2 when you push a rock against another rock. that's right, this is an ecco 2 algorithm in Ecco 1.

    helpsc6.png

    Near the end, the walls get even closer. Talk about a claustrophobic level.

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    Oddest of all, the sonar doesn't display properly. Sonar maps are generated - they aren't premade. When you call up the sonar map, it generates it based on the level layout. Why this level doesn't display properly is anyone's guess.

    The Stomach is a fucking weird level. Who made it, why it was made, and why it was removed is unknown. One of the strangest misteries in all of ecco.

    The only other thing left to talk about with regard to ecco 1 is the hidden messages...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I would assume it was just a general testing level for some of the things they were working on that later made it into Ecco 2.

    Æthelred on
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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I would assume it was just a general testing level for some of the things they were working on that later made it into Ecco 2.

    But this isn't a testing level. There are actual test levels in the game. You can access them. This isn't one.

    And this is STILL IN THE GAME. It's in the released version.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • VaregaVarega Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Jesus man, this stuff is captivating. You really write well, and keep us, the forumers, hitting f5 every 3 seconds to see more.
    Make a book, this stuff is amazing.

    Varega on
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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The following ascii strings exist in Ecco that are never used. They are obviously programmers notes/inside jokes, but they are still strange.

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    "FLAWLESS VICTORY!"

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    This translates into "Welcome in that." Weird.

    dolphinsbk5.png

    Sick.

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    This reference kinda dates the game.

    operatingwc3.png

    Nope.

    howareyoupm2.png

    I'm fine, thanks.

    hellowordph6.png

    Classic.

    While on the subject of the text screens in ecco, this seems like just as good a time as ever to explain how the Sega Genesis creates them. When I was younger, these screens were among my favorites. The ripple effect was used so well, I thought it was video of actual water. It wasn't until I was older that I figured out what was going on. For those who haven't seen it before, you can see them here at 55 seconds into the video. So how are they done?

    they're done using one of the better tricks up the genesis' sleeve - the sin wave transformation. The same effect is used in tons of sega genesis games. Here's how it's done:

    *First, they blit the ordinary background to the screen, without any change going to it. To make an image look rippled, all they do is simply examine an image, line by line, and bump them over a little bit, like so:

    ORIGINAL IMAGE
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    

    if we go through and move the first line over a little, then the next a little more, and so forth, the image ripples, like so:
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    --OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    ---OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    ---OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    --OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    

    So it simply becomes a matter of figuring out how much to bump each line over by. I assume you've taken trig, so you know how the sin function works. If we plot the sin function over a graph, it periodically goes from -1 to 1 forever. So if we simply take a counter, say float i, and increase it, we can use the result of sin(i) to get how much to ripple the image by. There are other tweaks you can do to the formula to change the ammount of ripple and such.

    By changing the frequency and amplitude, to make the ripples exra long and extra compressed, the game achieves the water-like ripple effect.

    And that's all there is for Ecco 1. Moving on to Ecco 2...

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I've been called by my dad to help him do the books for our Restraunt. We have to do them every friday, and it's a 2 man job.

    I'll be back in about an hour to post the ecco 2 stuff.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • MonaroMonaro Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Awesome. I knew there was a reason why I picked up a Japanese copy of Ecco, when I already had the PAL version on cart and CD :D


    I'm pretty sure parts of The Machine were pretty claustrophobic too, but the jellyfish do have a totally different art style, more organic like Ecco 2. Why would there be a different art and palette style for a small part of the game? And to purposely remove it? Weird.

    Monaro on
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  • LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Holy crap, aliens and time travel? What?

    All I remember doing is playing with my friend who owned the game, losing the ability to breathe underwater, and then dying a lot and not progressing at all.

    Lemming on
  • fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Awesome thread, loved Ecoo 2, it had such a strange quality and character.

    Looking forward to seeing the oddities and extras tomorrow.

    Thanks SonicRetard!

    fragglefart on
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  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ...

    Holy fuck. May have to get Ecco now.

    Gorilla Salad on
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Now I'm debating it too.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • Gorilla SaladGorilla Salad Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    mtvcdm wrote: »
    Now I'm debating it too.
    I'll wait a couple of mondays(mostly because I have to see 300) to see if something a whole lot better comes along(super metroid)

    Gorilla Salad on
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Goddammit, you're all going to make me buy the Sega Genesis Collection for my PSP even though I don't want to spend $30 on it.

    maximumzero on
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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Also: I should really go back and finish Ecco on my DC, shouldn't I? I never got very far due to frustration.

    maximumzero on
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  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Really guys, Ecco's not the great. Most of the time it's just key hunts in underwater mazes.

    But you can do flips.

    agoaj on
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  • DekuStickDekuStick Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Ecco was fucking awesome.

    Also my mother would get sick just watching it so it was perfect at getting her to leave me alone.

    Thank you Ecco.

    DekuStick on
  • setrajonassetrajonas Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    agoaj wrote: »
    Really guys, Ecco's not the great.

    heresy

    setrajonas on
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I saved up and bought a Genesis just for Ecco the Dolphin. I ended up not liking it a whole lot. Definitely never took the time to beat it.

    FightTest on
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  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Ah yes Ecco the Dolphin. That was a game that made the Genesis for me. It was so utterly different from everything else out there. Looking back on it I cant help but think of it like the Shadow of the Colossus of its time. I mean theres not much text in the game and not really any cutscenes everything is expressed through the levels and stuff. Just so odd when placed next to other games from its time.

    But I think there was a method to The Stomachs madness. I always saw it as like you just killed the queen and now the whole place is starting to collapse. So you are running through the level as everything gets tighter and tighter from the collapse.

    randombattle on
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    I never asked for this!
  • TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I was really looking forward to this thread! :)

    But I think there was a method to The Stomachs madness. I always saw it as like you just killed the queen and now the whole place is starting to collapse. So you are running through the level as everything gets tighter and tighter from the collapse.

    Does anything happen after you beat the stage?

    Turkey on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Turkey wrote: »
    I was really looking forward to this thread! :)

    But I think there was a method to The Stomachs madness. I always saw it as like you just killed the queen and now the whole place is starting to collapse. So you are running through the level as everything gets tighter and tighter from the collapse.

    Does anything happen after you beat the stage?

    I honestly cant remember. I just remember that being a fucked up stage and figured that was why.

    randombattle on
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    I never asked for this!
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Maybe it was just a teaser to get you to buy Ecco 2? Maybe it didn't work in Japan or they forgot to put in the 'Ecco 2 coming soon!' ad, or didn't want to translate that for other languages. It's really, really weird that they went through so much trouble to remove it, though.

    I remembe renting Ecco, and I think the second one. Learning the controls was lots of fun. But I go so mad at how hard the game was that it was one of the very few games that made me toss the controller. My grandmother was actually scared at it. I think you might have called my reaction a 'tantrum' at the time. I wasn't allowed to play it after that, so I never knew it got all crazy. I knew time travel was involved, though.

    Man, I have that collection. I'm going to have to go play it, now.

    TSR, please say you have some PSO info? Or at least educate people about it? It's by Sonic Team after all...

    Reynolds on
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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My guess is that it was to be a bridge between the two games, but it never got finished when they released the game. Realizing the code was in there, they spent the time to strip it out completely, in order to keep people from finding what secrets it held.

    Athenor on
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  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    But its just so odd they would remove it so completely from all further Ecco games.


    Then again I still think they were on crack when they made all of the Ecco games so I guess it sort of makes sense that way.

    randombattle on
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  • Kewop DecamKewop Decam Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Wasn't there n 3D ecco on the DC? Was it also crazy?

    Kewop Decam on
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  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    One possibility was that it was purely a testing ground that was never intended to be actually playable, and something caused it to pop up for a minute there in the Japanese version. Which would also explain why it went byebye entirely: They completely stripped every scrap of it out to avoid that happening in the other versions.

    Then again, I'm probably waaaay off.

    yalborap on
  • randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Wasn't there n 3D ecco on the DC? Was it also crazy?

    Yeah there was a 3D Ecco on the DC but it was really different from the genesis series and not connected to it at all.


    I never actually played it past the second level so I can say crazy or not. But it is hard as nails.

    randombattle on
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    I never asked for this!
  • ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The DC version is absolutely fantastic. Dunno about muuch wierd stuff, but I know how to swim about outside the level on most of it's levels, and there is some wierd stuff there.

    ben0207 on
  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    ben0207 wrote: »
    The DC version is absolutely fantastic. Dunno about muuch wierd stuff, but I know how to swim about outside the level on most of it's levels, and there is some wierd stuff there.

    Team up with TSR and elaborate on these weird things. THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT.

    yalborap on
  • ben0207ben0207 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I'll see if I can dig out some screenshots, or failing that take entirely new ones.

    It's St Patrick's Day though, and I intend to be extremely drunk for the rest of the day, so it'll probably be tomorrow I post anything* :D



    *Anything meaningful and spelt correctly, anyway.

    ben0207 on
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