acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
LMAO. "Better than War of the Roses" first legitimate discussion point in thread = "shield bash wins every fight ever"
I was starting to wonder if I had accidentally clicked on the WotR thread.
But seriously, this sounds like the thread will play out the same as WotR. "Oh man this is so awesome" -> "that damn shield bash wins every fight" -> "there's no reason to do anything but 2h sword spam or shield bash" -> "waiting for fixes to obvious and easily fixable balance problems" -> empty thread.
I've played a little M&B multiplayer and while in a noob vs noob situation, attack spamming works marvellously. Against any sort of competent opponent this will fall falt. This same high skill ceiling leads to two opponents of equal skill having epic duals.
Is it maybe not the case that people just haven't found the level of finesse to work around these obvious techniques? I was hoping that either this or WotR would have the same level of fight mechanic depth as M&B.
acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited October 2012
well as of last time I played WotR, there's no fatigue and even with the riposte perk (allows you to attack fast after a successful parry) on a fast weapon and using the lightest encumbrance possible you still can't attack faster than the dude in full plate swinging the 2H claymore after having been parried. So while you can still block, and dodge your way into defeating the 2H spam, the amount of effort it takes to win that fight is not worth it.
If there was some mechanic where swinging home-runs endlessly forever would cause your player to slow down, do less and less damage each consecutive swing, faint from lack of oxygen, or die of a heart attack then 2H spam would no longer be a problem in WotR. Honestly, I think that's the single most important issue they need to fix. Shield spam is annoying but can still be defeated with an appropriate level of finesse like you mentioned.
Is there a mechanic like that here (spamming attacks makes you winded) in Chivalry?
I'd have to try out the melee to see if the same advantages can be eked out through skill as they can in M&B, but the problem sounds very familiar. In a pure 1v1 situation 2 handed wielding always beats sword and board. The player with just the sword has a small but significant speed advantage, allowing him to take advantage of openings created through feints and parries. This doesn't allow winning through attack spam though, skill is certainly required, so the situation is different to what you seem to be describing.
Is there a mechanic like that here (spamming attacks makes you winded) in Chivalry?
Yes, you have Stamina. And it runs out pretty quick on the heavy two handers. You can still swing, but it's very slow. And you can't dodge or block effectively with zero stamina either.
I feel like every weapon is potentially lethal in Chivalry, but fast sidearms fare particularly well against 2H weapons, even without a shield. Hell, punching people to death can be shockingly effective and highly satisfying.
I know we're not supposed to be comparing this game with WOTR, but If anyone out there is on the fence I would clearly recommend Chivalry over WOTR.
This game has a very Rune: Halls of Valhalla feel. Every weapon seems to work, given the right circumstances and tactics. And there are a lot of tactical choices to make, particularly due to the diversity of swing types. When I die it generally feels "fair" (can usually see the lethal hit coming but realize too late that you can't avoid it) whereas the more "sim" nature of armor penetration in WoTR really just makes the game feel more arbitrary. The grind, which is obnoxiously huge in WOTR, is minimal in Chivalry. Plus the upgrades are mostly "sidegrades" and the starter weapons are arguably superior. There's tons of duel servers. Honestly the only thing I miss is the executions and cavalry jousting.
Knight is devastating. The poleaxe is devastating and has incredible reach.
A competent opponent with a fast weapon is definitely my toughest match. Can't win the parry/stamina attrition war, so I try to kick and get a thrust attack in.
Stahl - 50 Sage - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
Every weapon in this game is lethal in a duel. But I find that nothing beats a good 2 hander in team games or FFAs. Every extra second it takes your little butter knife to kill the opponent is an extra second you are vulnerable to taking a giant swing to your back.
We need more people to join the steam group. Last I checked, there were still only 2 other people in the group and haven't seen either of them online yet.
Every weapon in this game is lethal in a duel. But I find that nothing beats a good 2 hander in team games or FFAs. Every extra second it takes your little butter knife to kill the opponent is an extra second you are vulnerable to taking a giant swing to your back.
We need more people to join the steam group. Last I checked, there were still only 2 other people in the group and haven't seen either of them online yet.
It would probably help if the steam group was actually listed in the OP. Also membership is invite only, so most of us that click on the link once we find it cant even join anyways.
Sometimes I jump into matches and just attack with my fists. I ninja around the map, hide around corners and punch people to death. Then they rage about how fists can hurt a knight in full body armor while I wail on their friends.
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
edited October 2012
hotfix 1 just hit, here's the info:
Hello Everyone!
Release week was completely insane- we are very happy with the interest in the game so far and even managed to hold the #1 sales spot on both Steam and Gamer's Gate at various points throughout the week! We are very pleased that the game is being received so well and could not be more motivated to keep working on it as a result. We have a bunch of new content in the works for you but first we have to get to the fixes as we know there are some bugs that are holding some people back from enjoying the game. So, just 6 days after the release of our game we are announcing that:
We will be releasing the first hotfix at 9AM PST.
Changes:
- Removed stats reset and improved rank/unlock system reliability (weapon unlocks will no longer reset)
- Fixed crash with server browser
- Fixed exploits.
- Auto-Team Balance on by default in all official servers
- Auto-Team Balance changes to give you notification and not count as death
- Fixed being able to join servers that were already full and overload them
- Now can only see game servers that are running the same version of the game as you are
We also want to make it clear- this is a hotfix, not a patch. So we know there are still bugs we need to fix and we are working on them, keep in mind its only been 6 days since release. Bugs suck and are frustrating, we understand and we are doing what we can to fix them! Further patches and updates are still coming- thank you for your patience and understanding.
Thank you for helping us take the first step towards making our dream come true, we can't wait to show you what else we have in store for future updates,
Just picked this up a couple days ago, and I've been loving it! Found myself a good dueling server to practice my timing, distance, and feinting in, and I've improved a hell of a lot from when I started. Took of bit of getting used to before I was able to reliably use the mousewheel as an attack button.
Just picked this up a couple days ago, and I've been loving it! Found myself a good dueling server to practice my timing, distance, and feinting in, and I've improved a hell of a lot from when I started. Took of bit of getting used to before I was able to reliably use the mousewheel as an attack button.
Yea, the first thing I did was rebind the mouse wheel buttons to mouse 4 and 5.
How come no one told me that there is a camera that will follow your arrow. That shit is awesome. You can even use it to scout to spot enemies.
Yea, the first thing I did was rebind the mouse wheel buttons to mouse 4 and 5.
How come no one told me that there is a camera that will follow your arrow. That shit is awesome. You can even use it to scout to spot enemies.
I thought about rebinding, but I decided to give it a shot first, and now I've gotten used to it and would just screw myself over if I changed it. The arrow cam thing is in the tutorial level if you do the advanced combat training.
And while it is pretty boss, most of the side buttons are not recognized by most games, only a couple of them, and they are not the ones which you would be comfortable pressing with your thumb all the time like the big chevron-shaped one in the middle. Usually it's the first two upper ones on the side that get recognized as mouse4 and mouse5.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
The key to success in this game is to spam X.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
And while it is pretty boss, most of the side buttons are not recognized by most games, only a couple of them, and they are not the ones which you would be comfortable pressing with your thumb all the time like the big chevron-shaped one in the middle. Usually it's the first two upper ones on the side that get recognized as mouse4 and mouse5.
That's... a lot of buttons. I can't even figure out how you would use some of those button while playing under pressure and I have some long, spindly ass piano fingers.
All the battlecry keys are awesome. I wish there was a mechanical reason to them as well (Like getting of a stationary one after a kill gives everyone near by some statmina back or something, just minor).
I've being playing skirmishing man at arms with my Ax (just the first one), dagger and throwing knives.
Find it really effective with this build to sit on flanks of maps on defense or invade them as offense, murder archers, use throwing knives to push people off objectives (I had one person think they were glitchd out unable to mount a ballista when it was just me chucking knives at them).
I tend to have issues with beating opponents in deuls though, my short reach I can deal with mostly, but it feels like even if I parry with my axe my swing is still slower than any 2Hers second swing, and of course, if it comes to trading blows the man at arms sin't going to win that.
And while it is pretty boss, most of the side buttons are not recognized by most games, only a couple of them, and they are not the ones which you would be comfortable pressing with your thumb all the time like the big chevron-shaped one in the middle. Usually it's the first two upper ones on the side that get recognized as mouse4 and mouse5.
Is there a wireless mouse like this? There are almost NO good wireless "fingertip" gaming mouses, they're all wired and there's only like 4 of them.
And while it is pretty boss, most of the side buttons are not recognized by most games, only a couple of them, and they are not the ones which you would be comfortable pressing with your thumb all the time like the big chevron-shaped one in the middle. Usually it's the first two upper ones on the side that get recognized as mouse4 and mouse5.
Is there a wireless mouse like this? There are almost NO good wireless "fingertip" gaming mouses, they're all wired and there's only like 4 of them.
It pains me.
I dunno what characteristics exactly you'd use to say a mouse is "like" that one. Corsair definitely doesn't make any wireless gaming mice.
So the Javelin is bugged and I can't level it, which is kind of lame because it's such a great weapon. This game is awesome and I hope they release more maps, the current ones are so damn good!
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Just going to leave this here. This was my screen a lot last night.
So the Javelin is bugged and I can't level it, which is kind of lame because it's such a great weapon. This game is awesome and I hope they release more maps, the current ones are so damn good!
You can unlock the other javelins, but you have to get kills with the alt fire for them to count. For some reason the thrown kill shows up as a shield kill. The shield bash kill shows up as a javelin kill... and I guess the normal stab kill works just fine.
That said, I do the best with the default javelin. The 2nd one does fly further, but it's hard to hit things at long range because of the travel time, and the reduced damage sucks. The 3rd javelin's range is way too short. You need at least some range so you have time to recover after you throw.
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Third person should be disabled by default in server configs, if it isn't.
I actually play predominantly in 1st person and it forced my camera to 3rd person when the match ended. I don't mind it being in the game the way it is because it's a locked 3rd person.
I'm getting better at the game. I can make the top 3 on the server with some regularity now, and I'm learning the reach on most - if not all - weapons, meaning I know when to block and when to just step out of range, step in, and swing for the fences. I'm certainly not infallible, and I do my share of dying. Now and again I'll have a bad match and just get wrecked. But for the most part, I'm kicking ass.
I love the vanguard, he's got at least one weapon in each category I like. The knight is alright, but I don't really care for any of his axes. The maul is an absolute monster, and the tier 2 1-handed sword is nasty. The man-at-arms I'm still working at. Coming from the vanguard, the lack of reach is difficult, and I'm still learning when to dodge. Archer...bleh. I think I like the crossbow more than the bow, and the javelin more than the crossbow, but I like ranged combat a LOT less than melee.
Well, it happened. I started enjoying this more than War of the Roses, far more, despite my initial assessment. I love the technicality of combat in WotR - at least, the potential for it - but there's a degree of bullshit overhead that makes the game hard to return to.
Both games are rife with fools in heavy armour spamming two-handers, but for whatever reason they're just less obnoxious in Chivalry. Having stamina tied to their button mashing probably helps, as does the absence of WotR's ridiculous magic dash.
Ultimately though, it's the squad spawn that kills WotR for me. It's a brilliant mechanic in ranged combat like Battlefield, but it completely ruins the flow of melee fighting. The amount of times I've been engaged in a tense, extended 1v1 duel, only to have the rest of his squad materialise directly behind me? Get fucked. I get backstabbed all the time in Chivalry but at least I probably deserved it.
Chivalry is not without flaw, but I see more longevity in its current state. Especially now that I know the 'laugh mockingly' button.
Gutterkisser on
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HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
see!
also the laugh button is so good, it's a real game changer once you realize you can laugh while running and swinging your sword down a mountain towards the enemy
I'm finding the 'Help me' button to be even more effective than laughter. There's something deeply unsettling about someone shrieking pleas for help as they slice up corpses on the ground.
so... anyone still playing this? I just saw a youtube of gameplay, then the TB video, and I'm thiiiiis close to pulling the trigger, but I wanna make sure this game isn't a dud. Is it a dud? You guys bored of it a month in?
Posts
I was starting to wonder if I had accidentally clicked on the WotR thread.
But seriously, this sounds like the thread will play out the same as WotR. "Oh man this is so awesome" -> "that damn shield bash wins every fight" -> "there's no reason to do anything but 2h sword spam or shield bash" -> "waiting for fixes to obvious and easily fixable balance problems" -> empty thread.
Is it maybe not the case that people just haven't found the level of finesse to work around these obvious techniques? I was hoping that either this or WotR would have the same level of fight mechanic depth as M&B.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
If there was some mechanic where swinging home-runs endlessly forever would cause your player to slow down, do less and less damage each consecutive swing, faint from lack of oxygen, or die of a heart attack then 2H spam would no longer be a problem in WotR. Honestly, I think that's the single most important issue they need to fix. Shield spam is annoying but can still be defeated with an appropriate level of finesse like you mentioned.
Is there a mechanic like that here (spamming attacks makes you winded) in Chivalry?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
we should instead be talking about how fucking awesome Vanguards are due to their amazing reach and how all other classes need to bow down
I feel like every weapon is potentially lethal in Chivalry, but fast sidearms fare particularly well against 2H weapons, even without a shield. Hell, punching people to death can be shockingly effective and highly satisfying.
I know we're not supposed to be comparing this game with WOTR, but If anyone out there is on the fence I would clearly recommend Chivalry over WOTR.
This game has a very Rune: Halls of Valhalla feel. Every weapon seems to work, given the right circumstances and tactics. And there are a lot of tactical choices to make, particularly due to the diversity of swing types. When I die it generally feels "fair" (can usually see the lethal hit coming but realize too late that you can't avoid it) whereas the more "sim" nature of armor penetration in WoTR really just makes the game feel more arbitrary. The grind, which is obnoxiously huge in WOTR, is minimal in Chivalry. Plus the upgrades are mostly "sidegrades" and the starter weapons are arguably superior. There's tons of duel servers. Honestly the only thing I miss is the executions and cavalry jousting.
A competent opponent with a fast weapon is definitely my toughest match. Can't win the parry/stamina attrition war, so I try to kick and get a thrust attack in.
Rigorous Scholarship
We need more people to join the steam group. Last I checked, there were still only 2 other people in the group and haven't seen either of them online yet.
It would probably help if the steam group was actually listed in the OP. Also membership is invite only, so most of us that click on the link once we find it cant even join anyways.
Yea, the first thing I did was rebind the mouse wheel buttons to mouse 4 and 5.
How come no one told me that there is a camera that will follow your arrow. That shit is awesome. You can even use it to scout to spot enemies.
I thought about rebinding, but I decided to give it a shot first, and now I've gotten used to it and would just screw myself over if I changed it. The arrow cam thing is in the tutorial level if you do the advanced combat training.
Mine's got 8, but most games I've got that I would need 8 buttons for recognize them.
(Keyboard to match, too.)
And while it is pretty boss, most of the side buttons are not recognized by most games, only a couple of them, and they are not the ones which you would be comfortable pressing with your thumb all the time like the big chevron-shaped one in the middle. Usually it's the first two upper ones on the side that get recognized as mouse4 and mouse5.
That's... a lot of buttons. I can't even figure out how you would use some of those button while playing under pressure and I have some long, spindly ass piano fingers.
Don't forget Z - 4 - 3 and z - 4 - 4
The Zweihander is salvation. Been getting 2.2 - 4 K/D Ratio with that bad boy. Up to rank 23 or 24 now,
HAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
COME HERE YOU! I LIKE YOU!
I've being playing skirmishing man at arms with my Ax (just the first one), dagger and throwing knives.
Find it really effective with this build to sit on flanks of maps on defense or invade them as offense, murder archers, use throwing knives to push people off objectives (I had one person think they were glitchd out unable to mount a ballista when it was just me chucking knives at them).
I tend to have issues with beating opponents in deuls though, my short reach I can deal with mostly, but it feels like even if I parry with my axe my swing is still slower than any 2Hers second swing, and of course, if it comes to trading blows the man at arms sin't going to win that.
Is there a wireless mouse like this? There are almost NO good wireless "fingertip" gaming mouses, they're all wired and there's only like 4 of them.
It pains me.
I dunno what characteristics exactly you'd use to say a mouse is "like" that one. Corsair definitely doesn't make any wireless gaming mice.
I love this game.
You can unlock the other javelins, but you have to get kills with the alt fire for them to count. For some reason the thrown kill shows up as a shield kill. The shield bash kill shows up as a javelin kill... and I guess the normal stab kill works just fine.
That said, I do the best with the default javelin. The 2nd one does fly further, but it's hard to hit things at long range because of the travel time, and the reduced damage sucks. The 3rd javelin's range is way too short. You need at least some range so you have time to recover after you throw.
I actually play predominantly in 1st person and it forced my camera to 3rd person when the match ended. I don't mind it being in the game the way it is because it's a locked 3rd person.
I love the vanguard, he's got at least one weapon in each category I like. The knight is alright, but I don't really care for any of his axes. The maul is an absolute monster, and the tier 2 1-handed sword is nasty. The man-at-arms I'm still working at. Coming from the vanguard, the lack of reach is difficult, and I'm still learning when to dodge. Archer...bleh. I think I like the crossbow more than the bow, and the javelin more than the crossbow, but I like ranged combat a LOT less than melee.
Both games are rife with fools in heavy armour spamming two-handers, but for whatever reason they're just less obnoxious in Chivalry. Having stamina tied to their button mashing probably helps, as does the absence of WotR's ridiculous magic dash.
Ultimately though, it's the squad spawn that kills WotR for me. It's a brilliant mechanic in ranged combat like Battlefield, but it completely ruins the flow of melee fighting. The amount of times I've been engaged in a tense, extended 1v1 duel, only to have the rest of his squad materialise directly behind me? Get fucked. I get backstabbed all the time in Chivalry but at least I probably deserved it.
Chivalry is not without flaw, but I see more longevity in its current state. Especially now that I know the 'laugh mockingly' button.
also the laugh button is so good, it's a real game changer once you realize you can laugh while running and swinging your sword down a mountain towards the enemy
I am still bummed there turned out not to be a MORE ALE WENCH button in Skyrim.