Newbie Mini-[Phalla]: Alien Invasion, Mafia Victory

Infidel

Baidol wrote: »

Or they thought you were annoying.

Or they thought it would be funny!

And sure, go ahead and post whatever. As I mentioned, it was mostly generic so it wasn't particularly exciting but also should apply to just about anyone...

kime

fedaykin666 wrote: »

I'm happy to post my exchanges with Infidel if Infidel is fine with that. He spent a decent amount of his time giving logical advice, which I carefully avoided acting upon.

This is the best way to deal with logic in Phalla.

:P

Erin The Red

Infidel wrote: »

You can do literally anything. Anything.

Just be consistent.

The only difference between "hey I'm just an unassuming guy" and "LOL I AM MAFIA FEAR ME" is that you'll get killed a bunch in the latter until it sticks. :P I call this the Kime Effect.

I get away with being "guy who never shuts the f up"

MrTLicious

Langly/Invicuts:

Langly wrote:

oh god damn it I just wrote a huge post and it got deleted ugh just a minute

Langly wrote:

OK here are the cliff notes

seer is the most stressful role because you are the most important village asset and cant tell anyone, so good luck.

you will want to think like a serial killer, both in style and targets. you don't want to be high profile, but not absent. you don't want to seem helpful or unhelpful, and you want to target people who won't be targeted by the Mafia or the vig. you ideally want to target a villager on day one, and then a Mafia every day after that.

some general phalla guidelines:

- if you think you have a smoking gun (that isnt a seer result), you almost certainly do not. gotcha moments in posting patterns or voting records that are sure things are few and far between. countless innocent villagers have died because a mob got started on a sure thing. don't be afraid to vote for someone or find someone sispicious, just be reluctant to fixate on one seemingly damming or set of damming data points. vilagers lie, make bad votes, and you dont have the whole picture.

- phalla can ironically be more personal than the live party game. you are constantly evaluated on your posting style, votes, and sometimes nothing at all. resist the urge to get offended or irritated if people find you suspicious for dumb reasons. resist the urge to be sure these people are Mafia. cool heads dodge wagons, righteously indignant people end up eating the vote.

I am sending this in case my tablet fucks up again and will write more in a minute

Langly wrote:

OK so some more general things

day one is the worst day, and while something like the ceaser vote does not do the village any favors, finding a solid bandwagon early on that isn't you will be helpful. you don't want a runaway wagon that the Mafia can gleefully avoid while everyone looks bad, but you also don't want to find yourself in a direct competition. day one votes are the hardest to dodge because they are completely irrational.

a fifteen player game is going to make every day crucial. it means you can not target a villager who gets killed, as that is going to waste the day, confirmation wise. if three kills go through every day (if there is a vig), the game will be very short. people who are going to be innately feared by the Mafia if they are not Mafia are going to be targeted first. experienced players will be targeted first.

sometimes (not always), you can get a feel for someone being Mafia by the fact that they aren't dead. a common Mafia tactic will specifically be to not kill high profile players to generate vote targets, but because this is a small game this is going to be a poor tactic.

Langly wrote:

woof that is huge. if the vig does not die and the Mafia dodge for three days the game is over. hopefully the guard is a mind reader

Langly wrote:

inexperienced Mafia can often be flagged by:

being super defensive (this is more late game but can happen day1)
jumping super quickly onto a wagon
being quiet except for one meaningless vote
talking a lot about nothing.

Langly wrote:

I would normally say that new Mafia will be quiet, but Mafia with a mentor will definitely be told to be fairly active

Langly wrote:

you can always revise orders.

it is considered best practice to get placeholder orders you will at least be OK with in as soon as possible, in case soething happens and you forget.

Langly wrote:

Yes it is.

Make sure he knows to not tell anyone you are the seer, but yeah just drop him a line like sup you're a confirmed villager let's kill all mafia

Langly wrote:

It's hard to predict people the mafia will kill, since they're working with more points of information. They're going to be trying to kill the seer, so if they have any members talking to people, they'll be trying to rule out potential specials. With the vig dead, they only really need to kill the seer, since without someone to guard, the guard is basically useless.

the only thing I think I can say is that the mafia will be weighing two options

a) Do we want to kill people we feel threatened by simply for existing, even if we think they are not the seer
b) Do we want to kill people that we are actually more certain are a special

Watch out for vetting people in your head simply because they seem good based on the way they talk about themselves. People are always certain that today is the day they're going to die, and since that statement is basically meaningless (you're always treading that line in the game), you can confidently say that as a mafia and still be "surprised" that you weren't killed the next morning. It's generally a good idea to start making a list of people you think are more likely to be mafia than not, just don't let yourself rule people out completely, since that can lead to poor choices.

Langly wrote:

also the mafia will be considering who they think will catch a guard, since as far as they know, the guard is still just picking targets at random.

sometimes the best way to kill the village is to take the safest bet targets to make sure that you don't get blocked, even if your targets aren't the specific ones you want.

Langly wrote:

until your mouthpiece is dead, you don't want to confirm any more villagers.

I mean, it's not a bad thing to have people you know are good, that reduces the list you have to work through. But you want instant results, and the village has no other way to kill mafia than to vote them out. You're in a race against time, so you want to have a definite vote target tomorrow if you can.

Langly wrote:

you would want your mouthpiece to do that, if you were going to. it would make IW a target tonight, though, and if he got killed you would lack a mouthpiece for the results in the morning (if they were mafia).

one way to publicly get things moving on someone is just to get your guy to make a vote on them for reasons other than the ones you suspect them for. just, like, non reasons or a gut feeling or whatever. you can see if it sticks or how they react to gaining votes etc.

it's still risky but better than making a concerted effort of it.

Langly wrote:

well it depends how he does it. Like, if it looks like he's making this argument out of the blue, it may attract mafia even if he's wrong. They could think he is networked and is working with information in the background.

as long as it's just a personal thing, and not seen as background information, it would be safeish

MrTLicious

SLyM/Iron Weasel

SLyM wrote:

My rule of thumb is that everyone is lying. I am a very paranoid phalla player.

SLyM wrote:

If I have a grudge, I vote them. If I don't I just vote for whoever I think would be the funniest. The important thing though, is I never change my day one vote. There is pretty much no reason to change your vote unless someone reveals or you're mafia, so if you change without a reveal it makes you look suspicious as fuck.

SLyM wrote:

Considering there's nothing crazy going on, you shouldn't really get any valuable information whenever you do it. In a mostly generic game any soft networking is just gonna be sharing suspicions, which is equally useful early and late.

SLyM wrote:

Also a tip for soft networking:

In more complex games hosts will often give the mafia "cover roles" which are roles they can pretend to have without worrying if someone else in the game has it for real. Sometimes the mafia are so eager to get those out there that they'll tell you even if you don't ask their role. I have caught at least one mafia because they told me their role when I didn't ask for it.

SLyM wrote:

You really can't. It almost never is, but that's not something you can ever be 100% sure about. Trust him somewhat until he seers a mafia and you vote them out and it actually is a mafia, then trust him almost completely.

SLyM wrote:

Look for the people who haven't been contributing to the conversation. With this many villagers dead, it's unlikely the mafia would have taken a firm stand on any of the votes so far.

SLyM wrote:

Trust your instincts, young padawan!

But really, when there is no concrete evidence to go on, just a gut feeling about someone can be really good to follow up on.

SLyM wrote:

This late in the game, you need a strong bandwagon. It isn't much good splitting up your votes when the mafia can all vote together. It'll reveal them, sure, but it won't matter because they'll have the game in the bag.

I needed anime to post.

Baidol wrote: »

Or they thought you were annoying.

Sounds worth killing to me!

fedaykin666

fedaykin666 wrote:

fedaykin666 December 11

Greetings Infidel!

I have the Alien Infiltration soundtrack from the 1997 XCOM playing and I look forward to working with you at uncovering these slimy tricksters hiding in our ranks. As I'm not a seer, presumably all I can do right now is watch and wait for some data to work with?

Infidel wrote:

InfidelInfidel December 11
Yep. While there is often nothing strong you can go by on day 1, it is not true that there is nothing at all.

If people are forced to post, they are forced to think about what they post, and they can always somehow betray themselves.

Basically as any kind of villager, you should be watching for posts that betray a hidden motive. Someone that is hiding something will often post in a way that indicates they are hiding something. It may be a "falseness" that you pick up on, and it is there because they are going in their head "oh shit oh shit, okay, act natural, what should I say exactly" and many overthink that part. It leaves a trail, and even if it isn't always going to pan out, following it will mean you have better accuracy than just "firing at random" in the long run.

It is the single most important tool I have to rely on in every game I play. It is partly responsible (or entirely, some games) for "omg Infidel so scary" results.

My phalla persona is an asshole, because it allows me to poke at people and watch how people react. Forcing posts from people gives you more noise to try to pick up on those signals. It's a pretty simple thing to do but it works.

The only problem is you tend to find people that are mafia OR specials, as they both tend to fabricate their posts more, so you can sometimes kill off the good guys this way. :P

If you haven't read the mafia advice of mine that Egos posted, you should check it out. The "come up with your consistent playstyle" bit applies always because that is the point, even when you're vanilla.

fedaykin666 wrote:

fedaykin666 December 12

Good evening Obi-Wan. I did indeed read that post, but I still feel like we're shooting in the dark a bit until we can see a 2nd round of votes. I'm trying to follow the advice to get people talking and see if they slip up, but do you think I'm being too obviously pro-town? I have a feeling I might be waking up with an alien-induced headache.
InfidelInfidel December 12
Your posts are pretty neutral, which is an a-okay place to be as a newbie. I won't comment on others posts, but I agree that you'll likely need at least another day of votes and posts before you can get any leanings from the record.

Often at this stage it is just making sure people are posting and voting, so that when (if) you're still alive later in the game, you can reread the thread and look at all those delicious posts and votes, armed with the knowledge of what came since.

Hindsight is super powerful, abuse it.

Heck, many people that are making small lies or manipulations, can't remember them a day or two later, and so contradict themselves or seem to stand out more when you read multiple days all within the span of an hour.

Rereading helps so much. If you can't dedicate that much time, just wait for the "today seems to be the day I need to make a good call" day and reread everything once.

fedaykin666 wrote:

fedaykin666 December 13

Well, sorry Infidel, it looks like my attempting to keep adducing flimsy evidence in an attempt to get people to talk seems to have resulted in my death by reality TV removal. I also insinuated to CesareB that I might be a seer ( I didn't say it outright), which may not have been a great idea if he is indeed mafia.

Now that it's over for me, does anyone strike you as obviously suspicious?

Perhaps I can learn some lessons if I play a second game sometime:
Talk more in pms and less in the thread?
Try not to give off a sense of paranoia and just stick to a couple of careful neutral remarks per voting session?

Anyway thanks for your help with the game,

fedaykin

Kilnaga

I think if I had to pull one bit out of all the crap I said it would be this bit:

"I think if I had one thing that I would tell a starting player, it would be to not ignore your gut instincts. I am a very big believer in going with my gut. For me, its just a qualitative assessment of the data presented, instead of a quantitative one. I absorb the information from the thread, the posts, the vote records, anything said to me in PMs. I always make sure I jot down a list of initial suspects as they crop up. If something seems hinky, or off in any way, even if I can't say exactly why, or point out the post where it happened. If my gut tells me so, I've made it a point to listen. I've had many games where I've ended up second guessing myself, or over-analyzing the information and swapping targets/votes, usually to my detriment.

I'd encourage you all to make note of things that seem off or suspicious to you when they first occur to you, and keep that list handy as you go back over and discuss things/analyze as a group. Never just dismiss your gut instincts out of hand, even if you have nothing solid to support them.

This is definitely something that you guys will refine over the course of many games. The more you play, the more you are exposed to the mechanics, the players, and their play styles. Over time, you'll have a better handle on why your gut is telling you what it is."


It seems pertinent after this bit:

Iron Weasel wrote: »

Duke2.0 apparently also played a very good game - at one point MikeyCTS told me that Duke couldn't be mafia because "he is guileless". So well played there.

If you are suspicious of a player, always, always, always, make note of it somewhere. Even if you aren't 100% sure why you're even suspicious of them. Letting other people persuade you away from targets you believe to be suspicious can get you killed more often than not. Although, it is always helpful to find out who the other players find suspicious or not; just never let their lists/opinions/suggestions wipe away your own.

Iron Weasel

That's solid advice.

corvidae

just gonna throw my 2cents in here.

i'm a slightly veteran player. i dove in head first, and i've had my victories, and more often than not, embarrassing failures. i've learned a lot through experience. all you new guys just got some nice lessons. pay attention,remember, and most of all, it's a game, (even if it's sometimes stressful) have fun.

shalmelo

I'm living proof that you can get better at this game over time if you just keep playing. I started in 2009 and was not very good for a while (a long while). I was certainly worse than several of you new folks are right now, but over time I think I've improved a lot. So stick with it and have fun!

kime

Measuring how "good" you are at this game is silly anyways

You're all basically complete beginners compared to me

Infidel

My first game was the worst.

The phalla community tried to blacklist me from ever playing again.

MrTLicious

Hey newbies, you need to vote for a mentor.

Or the voting gods will bevery displeased.

Iron Weasel

Much love for my boy SLyM.

But I'll cast my vote for Egos.

Mikey CTS

Egos