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[Psycho-Pass]: Season 2 Now Airing (Dubbed Episodes Begin November 8th)

Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
edited October 2014 in Debate and/or Discourse
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"A man's character always takes its hue, more or less, from the form and color of things about him."
-Frederick Douglass


What Is This?

Psycho-Pass is a new Anime series by Production I.G. (which were responsible for Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, FLCL, Patlabor, and several other shows, movies, and games), which began running on Japanese TV since October.

The series takes place in the far future, where every member of society is constantly monitored by the "Sybil System", a 24/7 surveillance that measures the Psycho-Pass of each and every individual. When a person's stress level goes beyond a certain level, they are labeled as "Latent Criminals", and are immediately seized by the authorities as a probable threat to society. Think Minority Report, only with guns made from Fist of the North Star.

It is the duty of the Ministry of Welfare Public Safety Bureau (MWPSB) to apprehend these Latent Criminals or kill them on sight, depending on how high their Crime Coefficient is. The weapons they carry (called Dominators) contain built-in scanners that authorize the use of the guns, but are locked out from attacking anyone with an ordinary Psycho-Pass.

The MWPSB operatives consist of "Inspectors" who give the commands, and the "Enforcers" who are used to hunt down the criminals. The latter happen to be Latent Criminals themselves, and are basically hunting dogs who must obey the commands of their handlers, or be forced to remain forever institutionalized. To put it in layman's terms, it's either the doghouse or the kennel.

So What's So Great About This Show?

The series was written by Gen Urobuchi, aka "The Urobutcher", a nickname he totally didn't earn for mistreating his characters or creating incredibly tragic storylines. Perish the thought!

In addition to being responsible for Madoka Magica, which is currently the greatest thing in the universe (spoilers), Urobuchi has quickly become the go-to guy for compelling, often brutal storylines, including another new series due later this year as well as a new Madoka Magica movie. He would undoubtedly be pleased over all the fame and fortune he's amassed, were he capable of feeling such an emotion.

The series is currently halfway done, but has quickly cemented itself as another compelling series from Urobuchi. Taking various sci-fi works as inspiration (to which they are constantly referenced in the show itself), Psycho-Pass features a future world with an AI system that would sound nightmarish to just about everyone. The series starts off at a slower pace than his previous works, but the time spent during these "Latent Criminal of the Week" episodes is also used to flesh out the main characters as well as the future world they live in, slowly filling you in on the details on the latter and dropping several hints about the former.

Another Urobuchi staple is his strong cast of characters, each with their own likeable traits and inner flaws, and every single one of them having a death flag fluttering above their heads at all time. These characters include...

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Akane Tsunemori

A rookie Inspector, Akane is literally thrust into the field on her first day on the job, giving her little time to adjust to the violent nature of her job, or the clash of ideologies regarding the treatment of Latent Criminals. Despite her constant self-doubts and highly stressful job, her Psycho-Pass rarely rises above "Powder Blue", one of the lowest and most acceptable hues read by the Sybil System.

Her expressions are particularly fun to watch; while she tends to carry a gloomy/tired look most of the time (which may either be thematic and/or relevant to the plot), she's not the type of character to let other people walk all over her, and whenever she does show off a new expression, it's almost always pure gold.

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Shinya Kougami

One of the Enforcers under Akane's watch, Kougami is either a loose cannon ready to go off or the sanest person in an insane society. Seemingly unperturbed by his status as a Latent Criminal, Kougami frequently ignores the leash around his neck and goes after his prey with unflinching determination. Despite sharing a radically different outlook than Akane, the two quickly earn each other's trust and utilize old fashioned deduction and reasoning to find their criminals. He's also not afraid to forgo the Dominator and let his fists do the enforcing.

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Shogo Makishima

A mysterious criminal mastermind who works in the shadows, you'll know when the series has entered Urobutcher territory whenever Makishima makes an appearance. Rarely getting his own hands dirty, Makishima has been seen aiding some of the most deranged Latent Criminals in carrying out their violent acts. As someone who fully opposes the Sybil System and its neutering of society, he finds the suffering and torture of humans to be the penultimate moment where they reveal "the splendor of their souls". He frequently enjoys reading classic literature, and his cold and emotionless demeanor reminds me of another Urobuchi character.

There are several other characters to keep track of, though they haven't all been given as much development as these three so far. There is also a sizable rouge's gallery of truly twisted individuals, as well as frequently great-looking set pieces and action sequences, as well as a really nice soundtrack and a story that constantly teases its plot points as well as deliver on the viewers' theories.

It also brings up several different but interesting schools of thought about the nature of the Sybil System and how much it has affected society (which you gradually learn is "quite a bit"), but it never beats you over the head over which ideology is "right". The majority of the characters simply accept that this is the world they live in, even if they can't follow its laws.

Where Can I Watch This?

You can catch the entire series for free online at Funimation's channel, as well as Hulu. New episodes are uploaded every Thursday at 10:00 am (PST).

And The Purpose Of This Thread?

To discuss the series, of course. It may be halfway done, but things are about to really ramp up judging by the last couple of episodes. There's still time to catch up from the beginning as well, and come up with your own theories on how this will all play out.

Just please be sure to follow the following guidelines:

Mark ALL Spoilers

Keep MOST Of The Discussion About Psycho-Pass

All Links MUST Be Safe For Work

Have fun, keep your hues a healthy and stress-free color, and always pay tribute to Spooky Boogie.

Professor Snugglesworth on
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    B:LB:L I've done worse. Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Good OP. This is on my to-watch list.

    I think it's also available on HULU.

    B:L on
    10mvrci.png click for Anime chat
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    Wasn't able to find it on Crunchyroll, but I did find it on Hulu. Thanks for the heads up, I'll update the OP.

    And for anyone who watched episode 11 (major spoilers).

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    :cry:

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited February 2013

    "A man's character always takes its hue, more or less, from the form and color of things about him."
    -Frederick Douglass

    Regret, regret can change the nature of a man

    Tastyfish on
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    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    I believe it's also based on a currently running, monthly manga.

    Which means that it'll probably fall prey to the time honored tradition of "Oh fuck we ran out of material, MAKE SHIT UP" of such adaptations. Seems interesting though.

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    It was mentioned that Urobuchi wrote the ending in advance, and that the director approved it on the first draft.

    He did the same thing with Madoka, so it seems to be his writing style.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Thank's for making the thread. I watched the first few episodes, but not enough to have much of an opinion yet. I haven't found anything particularly amazing yet, but these sort of things tend to take a while to get up to speed.

    The art and music are pretty good, but lacking the quality of action animation of GitS or style of the Madoka which fights.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    This is a pretty great show,but I still cant get over the major issue in the first episode:
    The entire premise of the world is once you go to far, and you hue goes too high, you are unsalvageable as a person and must be terminated or locked up forever. As in no amount of counsiling will ever be able to bring you back.

    At the end of the first fucking episode after we see the lead new inspector when shes ordered to fire on a rape/sexual abuse victim who's hue is too far gone and is threatening to light herself(and another officer) on fire. The detective shoots her partner to stun him from killing the victim, and says the equivilent of "its going to be ok" and her hue drops into acceptable ranges. After confirming that theres no going back from her state and she needs to die.

    There's been several good themes going on in the show so far though. The obvious reality of their prison system
    where its designed to keep your hue high so you are never released, but noone cares. Its very similar to our own/japans

    Also lots of commentary on government programs like adoption and just institutional care in general.

    The new intro has a really big focus on
    real guns, so I have to wonder if it wont be long before there issued revolvers

    Anyways, shit has gotten real in the last couple of episodes, am I right?
    geth wears a helmet, I am just sayin'

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    This is a pretty great show,but I still cant get over the major issue in the first episode:
    The entire premise of the world is once you go to far, and you hue goes too high, you are unsalvageable as a person and must be terminated or locked up forever. As in no amount of counsiling will ever be able to bring you back.

    At the end of the first fucking episode after we see the lead new inspector when shes ordered to fire on a rape/sexual abuse victim who's hue is too far gone and is threatening to light herself(and another officer) on fire. The detective shoots her partner to stun him from killing the victim, and says the equivilent of "its going to be ok" and her hue drops into acceptable ranges. After confirming that theres no going back from her state and she needs to die.

    There's been a few theories about that, but the one I like best is:
    that kind of situation doesn't occur often because Latent Criminals are basically given a "zero tolerance" policy, meaning it's either stun or kill them immediately on sight. Because Akane was having a back-and-forth with her other colleagues, the victim's Crime Coefficient rose up, changing the situation from "stun" to "kill".

    There's also the fact that Akane took the time to calm the victim down, which lowered her CC back down to "stun". I think what this scene is trying to tell us is that most MWPSB don't take the time to try and calm down people with raised CCs, instead hunting them down with no mercy, since it's easier to just shoot them down and lock them up; the primary goal is to keep Latent Criminals away from the "normal" people, since they can either harm them or spread their bad vibes onto them (the recent episode brought up the concept of area wide stress levels, so it makes sense to treat them as viruses that could spread to other people).

    It shows you right away how flawed the Sybil System is, yet few people are challenging it because that's just the way society works now.

    This is also why the stuff that's happening now is so intriguing, and it reminds me a lot of The Dark Knight.
    We've got this shaky-yet-functional system that's keeping the streets clean and the public safe, but is also causing the criminals to become more desperate, to which they turn to this psychotic yet brilliant individual who leads them, but is only doing so for his own personal goal: to watch society crumble.

    Makishima is pretty much Heath Joker in that he wants to bring down the establishment and introduce anarchy, because he believes humans will only reveal their true nature when faced with such chaos.

    It looks like his end-goal is to destroy the Sibyl System, but it seems he's having just as much fun watching the world burn.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    See I read the dominator system as taking into account surrounding factors, not simply the CC level.

    The reason the force changed to lethal was
    lighter and a load of gas, with a woman who looked distressed enough to take that option.

    Even now we use a similar approach. If someone is directly threatening a police officer, lethal force can be used. The minute she no longer poses a threat, she gets downgraded. The distinction gets made because paralyse mode as demonstrated isn't 100% reliable, whereas lethal mode very much is.

    I'm only eight episodes in, but my reading so far has definitely been that
    people get taken and processed fairly effectively, with only the most irredeemable being subject to permanent detention.

    And I'm really liking that vibe. We have clearly dystopian elements, but nothing outright transparent. I'm going to be disappointed if that's the central twist - with them delving into the overwrought. However, a lot of the dialogue so far has helped to allay that fear though,
    especially with the antagonist and the artist(s) daughter, suggesting we might get something more interesting with the discussion of the effects of removing stress, and the increasing irrelevance of art. Though talking of that, the fact we're introduced with her holding Titus Andronicus and Macbeth as her favourite of Shakespears plays was a nice bit of foreshadowing that she wasn't nearly as insightful as she thought herself to be.

    The best reference is clearly episode 2
    Shinji!

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    Regarding your first spoiler, I don't think the system is detailed enough to calculate outside factors like that. Most likely it was recalculating based on the increasing fluctuations of the person's CC. Basically...
    She's already stressed, so you toss in "gas" and "lighter" into the mix and her subconscious is basically going "oh shit" and rising even further. Kind of like putting a loaded gun on the table: it's not pointing directly at you, but its mere presence is enough to get your stress levels going.

    As for your second spoiler, they do touch on that briefly in episode 12...
    Where they pretty much state that the odds of Latent Criminals undergoing therapy and returning to normal society are very low, and that they will most likely find themselves institutionalized again.

    It's why some LCs choose to be Enforcers instead, since that still gives them a better chance than going through therapy, which sounds like a dice roll at best.

    One character I've become increasingly interested in is Ginoza. They've been doing a good job subtly fleshing him out over the course of the series, and I'm curious how far they're going to take him.

    I can tell you it's going to be nowhere good, though. Dude's guaranteed to get a Bad End, and I've got money that says he'll end up being Urobuchi's "punching bag", as every series tends to feature one who gets the most attention from him.

    On the surface he's the stuffed-shirt of the team, with a clear bias against Latent Criminals in general. But as recent episodes have proven, he's got some good justifications for that, including a drive to prove to his superiors that he won't end up a LC like his father (kudos to all the fans who guessed right that it was Masaoka, something that was barely hinted at all in the start but soon became increasingly obvious).

    I also like the little moments that suggest that deep down he still views Kougami as a friend (and another neat early nod where Masaoka gives him the familiar nickname of "Kou"). Knowing Urobuchi, these two will end up having to face off against each other in some form. Again, guaranteed bad times ahead for Ginoza, if not the whole cast.

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Episode 16 Spoilers:

    I had really high expectations for this episode, and they were all met. We've now caught up to the flash forward from the first episode, and things proceeded exactly as I wanted them to.

    The Kougami/Makishima fight was brutal stuff, and I fist-pumped when Akane snuck in for the final blow. I then rewatched it and fist-pumped again.

    It is a little amusing how the only footage of Yuki playing in Akane's head is them having lunch together (since she only had two appearances before her kidnapping/death), but the emotional impact wasn't lost. I'm having a hard time deciding whether Akane or Kougami is my favorite.

    Also loved the camaraderie with the group, with Kagari remaining loyal to his friends even though he clearly supports the "Fuck Sybil" crowd.

    And for the big, BIG spoilers at the end...

    We SNATCHER now.

    Also R.I.P. Kagari. :(

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Oh hey I didn't know someone started a thread for this. Cool.

    Yeah this show is pretty much the Bee's Knees for me right now. It's most interesting to me because even though I liked it to begin with,
    the entire philisophical approach has changed quite a bit over the course of 15 episodes. It's quite clear that all of the concepts and groundrules given to us early on are either not 100% always the case, or just downright incorrect. And that isn't because the show is giving us conflicting information, but because that is what the characters at first believed and understood about the system

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    I believe it's also based on a currently running, monthly manga.

    Which means that it'll probably fall prey to the time honored tradition of "Oh fuck we ran out of material, MAKE SHIT UP" of such adaptations. Seems interesting though.

    I'm pretty sure it's a competely original story, and the manga is just being released along with the show. I don't believe it is an adaption, just another crazy thing from Urobuchi's mind, rather the manga is an adaption of the show (much like the Madoka manga)

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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Leitner wrote: »
    I'm only eight episodes in, but my reading so far has definitely been that
    people get taken and processed fairly effectively, with only the most irredeemable being subject to permanent detention.

    in reference to a future episode with what you say:
    As you watch more, your "effectively" thought should change, when you get to the episode about the rock stars.

    back to the "a few words reverses the unreversable":

    The more I think about it, there isn't a legitimate reason for having a kill switch for the dominator.. becuase when they peacefully capture someone who has a kill command, they jail them for life. when lesser offenders run, they just get stunned, and imprisoned for "therapy". The whole thing is wonky in the least. Its not like t he people too far gone aren't stunned in the same manner.

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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Oh hey I didn't know someone started a thread for this. Cool.

    Yeah this show is pretty much the Bee's Knees for me right now. It's most interesting to me because even though I liked it to begin with,
    the entire philisophical approach has changed quite a bit over the course of 15 episodes. It's quite clear that all of the concepts and groundrules given to us early on are either not 100% always the case, or just downright incorrect. And that isn't because the show is giving us conflicting information, but because that is what the characters at first believed and understood about the system
    cop who discovers he is working for the big bad is so kinda over done in anime. Ergo proxy, witch hunter robin, madoka. I really don't understand people assuming that the Sybil system isn't evil and macavellian and horrible from the get go. Why do the guns kill people? So that the people the Sybil system wants to die get killed.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    Some interesting theories (and images) emerged from the pl/a/ce that shall not be named following this episode. Big spoilers within.

    The big debate is "what did they see inside Sybil's core". Current theories include:

    [ ] Nothing
    [ ] The brains of asymptomatic criminals in jars, connected by wires.
    [ ] Makishima Shougo. The one running around outside is an android controlled by the Sybil system, which is the original Shougo.
    [ ] A grotesque, stitched-together biological abomination that wants to be put out of its misery.
    [ ] A bunch of psychic humans with their brains connected by wires.
    [ ] A magical girl imprisoned and used as a power source
    [ ] A random number generator
    [ ] An empty room
    [ ] A large number of human bodies, which are used as reference material. Criminal coefficients are determined by finding the closest match within the library of brains.
    [ ] A cluster of mac minis/drones
    [ ] The old lady
    [ ] Plastic tic tacs
    [ ] Akane
    [ ] Akane clones
    [ ] Tomatoes

    Followed by a few amusing joke images:

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    Someone also "enhanced" the images from the episode in an attempt to see through the heavy lighting meant to obscure you eyes over what they saw.

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    Looks like some sort of area with a pool/lake in the middle, another nod to Minority Report.

    Also, the reason Chief-Bot was all messed up was because the guy used an acid canister, which opened up and dispersed the liquid.

    The next big debate is "is Kagari still alive?". Hopefuls are thinking he somehow survived getting Dominated, which is highly unlikely.

    I have my own theory, though: he gets replaced by a robotic clone, and the other MWSPB members are none the wiser. It's the only outcome I can think of, since they would no doubt be wondering where he had disappeared to (assuming the Dominator didn't leave a big enough chunk of remains to identify him).

    One poster claimed that a magazine already spilled the beans on this though. I'll double-spoiler this just in case:
    they assume that he ran off into hiding

    I'm hoping that's not the case, because that would be a dumb way to write him off.

    Also, an interesting thought was posted that ultimately makes Kagari's fate even more tragic: recall that he was taken in as a Latent Criminal at the age of 5. He's spent almost his entire life as an Enforcer, never allowed to explore the outside world or even meet his real parents.

    That's what makes his resolve to side with his friends rather than help Makishimi destroy Sybil: to him, the MWSPB were probably the closest thing he ever had to a family. Couple that with how he referred to Akane as "sis" and it really puts things in perspective. :(

    The last two images are neat little tidbits. First, it turns out they've been improving the intro with each new episode:

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    Second, a partial list of all the drinks and literature that have popped up in the series.

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    I suspect the wait between episodes will grow increasingly more painful as we get closer to the finale.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Up to Ep10 myself:
    I think the idea behind the Sybil system is that it's not simply an expedited version of our justice system - this society has become so sensitive to the mental well-being of its citizens that it sees the criminal mind as a plague that is literally contagious. To arrest the person and put them on trial, or even to think about it too hard before insta-gibbing them, jeopardizes the minds of everybody else. They're so afraid of that happening that nothing else matters, it's not worth the risk to even consider rehabilitating people who have crossed the line.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Just started watching

    Interesting directorial choice the way they kind of start you off with a fake OP, it starts seeming like generic opening credits stuff and then it just keeps going and surprise it's actually a cold open, with the title drop only after the opening is over.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Just started watching

    Interesting directorial choice the way they kind of start you off with a fake OP, it starts seeming like generic opening credits stuff and then it just keeps going and surprise it's actually a cold open, with the title drop only after the opening is over.

    Just wait for the actual OP. It's glorious.

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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    Referencing up to episode 16:
    I noticed the intros
    were changing too. thanks for pointing out the differences though

    Also I figure the show switches gears now:
    and it becomes investigating what the hell he was going on down there, and Makishima ends up joining their team. What if the agonist this entire time was a magical girl who saw through the evil of sybil? Maybe we get the final 10 episodes from his point of view or some crazy shit.

    I dont know, or some complete gear switch anyways. The EoE picture made me laugh really hard.

    steam_sig.png
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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Just finished episode 5.

    I cannot stop watching.

    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Ahaha, ep 2 the scene with the cheerful hologram subduing Mr. Suspect justifies the whole show so far.

    Main girl is not that interesting so far, even if her role is obviously to be a straight man for now. And the exposition so far has been a bit needlessly front-loaded in the story, it could've been drizzled out a bit better.

    Luckily though the world they're giving exposition on is actually pretty interesting, way more science fictiony than I would have expected, I was kind of anticipating that it'd going for more of a 5 minutes into the future kind of vibe.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Up to Ep. 5. This show's gone in a very neo-cyberpunk direction, which I wasn't really expecting after the first episode. 3-5 could have all easily been quality scripts for Ghost in the Shell if you just changed who the investigators were.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Oh lord, episode 6

    Super weird

    EDIT: OK finished ep 7. Few thoughts on this storyline
    I liked how in most of the previous stories the detectives had a chance to actually seem pretty competent, but goddamn guys, 2 girls dead from the same school and you're not bothering to start, say, interviewing people about who they've been hanging out with, or who they were last seen with? There's a crazy-ass schoolgirl drawing pictures of crime scenes right in one of the classrooms! And she's been exchanging messages with the victims! And like a dozen other leads just sitting there!

    OK, fine, the system is sort of turning people into sheep, but suddenly everyone's acting under horror movie logic!

    More generally on this series, I do find it a bit troubling how much sexualized violence against women there is. There's been an awful lot of naked dead and/or about to be assaulted ladies. I'm willing to overlook a fair share of fanservice (for gods sake I like bakemonogatari) and there's been a fair share of cheesecake for the ladies, but every time a woman shows a bit of skin she's a victim, and it's kind of weird.

    EDIT2: and now ep 8 and the team's brains have turned back on

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    I think they cant investigate because they are literally just the clean up brawn first. They are there to chase, because people are too stupid to commit crimes they can get away with.

    As people are sheep who cant commit crimes, the investigators lose their game and are unable to put 2 and 2 together. I mean they have cameras everywhere that check peoples hue, and are escorted to therapy if it rises a little. I doubt before this series happened that anyone saw serious crime(uh obvious back story excluded).

    steam_sig.png
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    Yeah, a simple hue check will reveal anyone who is distressed or desperate, so only a real psychopath can commit crimes while keeping their hue clean. It seems like the actual need for police work is usually pretty minimal in this world.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I think that idea is pretty strongly conveyed through the whole 'hunting dogs' mentality that is applied to the enforcers. The prey is just there to run and be eventually spooked into the open and shot down. Nothing more, nothing less. It's when that wild boar appears that everyone loses their shit and has to break out something as simple as a forked spear to take it down... Or a lot of arrows.

    Likewise it's also a strong reason why Kou wants to become a detective so badly-
    he recognises the fact that the current system of law enforcement is flawed without people who can figure out these tougher cases and because of that lost someone important to him.

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Anzekay wrote: »
    I think that idea is pretty strongly conveyed through the whole 'hunting dogs' mentality that is applied to the enforcers. The prey is just there to run and be eventually spooked into the open and shot down. Nothing more, nothing less. It's when that wild boar appears that everyone loses their shit and has to break out something as simple as a forked spear to take it down... Or a lot of arrows.

    Likewise it's also a strong reason why Kou wants to become a detective so badly-
    he recognises the fact that the current system of law enforcement is flawed without people who can figure out these tougher cases and because of that lost someone important to him.

    Speaking of which (speculation plus spoilers)
    I bet Kou's partner faked his death to join Makishima (along with Yayoi's rocker girlfriend).

    He didn't look very stable judging by the flashback episode. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance to bring down Sybil.

    I'll also venture to guess he and the rocker girl end up braking Makishima out of prison next episode.

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Starting in on ep 13 (and btw, yet more women held as hostages in eps 11 and 12)

    Calling it now
    Akane is totally the good version of someone whose hue never gets clouded.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Starting in on ep 13 (and btw, yet more women held as hostages in eps 11 and 12)

    Calling it now
    Akane is totally the good version of someone whose hue never gets clouded.

    I can understand that it always being women can get a bit old, but even in reality it is more often than not women who are held as hostages rather than men. Generalization here, of course, but generally speaking they are less likely to be as much of a physical threat and that is the main thing that a terrorist or crimminal will worry about at the time. So this really isn't all that out of place.

    also, unless I am thinking of the wrong episode
    one of them was Akane's friend, so the gender there is pretty much irrelevant.

    I will say though, when it comes to fanservice I can't say any of this can really be classified as such. Except for people into some dark shit and, well, let's leave it at that.

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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Oh don't worry: The Urobutcher doesn't discriminate by gender. Plenty of suffering to go around.

    Though I do notice a bit of an overlap with his other works.
    If the female protagonist has a best friend, she'll die.

    If the male protagonist has a best friend, they become enemies (and then dies).

    That said, I don't recall P-P having too many female hostages, especially since
    most victims don't live long enough to become hostages in the first place

    Professor Snugglesworth on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    It's not really that I think the creator has a thing for hot ladies getting knives held to them, I think it's just the same syndrome that lots of American network crime shows have. On one hand there's the push for more violence for ratings, on the other hand there's the push for a bit of T&A for ratings. And since there's only a finite number of minutes to fit things in, inevitably you end up getting a lot of half-naked lady victims. It's not some kind of unique anime perversion, Law and Order has an awful lot of negligee-wearing lady corpses as well.

    (spoilers through 8)
    I'm kind of split on the ep 6-8 case with the schoolgirls. Like on the one hand it was by far the most exploitative, with each of the girls inevitably getting stripped naked and then chopped up. And while it was certainly a well-done play on the whole Yuri girls school thing, I'm not sure that that really added anything to the story thematically. On the other hand they even mention that the murderer is emulating crimes that were all about sexualized violence towards women, so it's not like the creators didn't know what they were doing, and she even has a nice little speech about how their school is all about producing a human product, not people. And it did have a hell of a creepy Dexter season 1 kind of vibe. I dunno, I'm going to have to rewatch this series at some point to fully make my mind up on some things.

    Kana on
    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    I really didn't find any of that exploitative in the least. It was really more about a fucked-up situation happening in an unlikely setting to prove that Sybil's reach is not as widespread as you were led to believe.

    The one bit that you can attribute to "it's a cultural thing" would be
    the possible lesbian attractions the students had for the serial killer, since those kinds of boarding schools are meant to isolate female students from males almost entirely. The idea is to shape their etiquette at an early age, so it's a lot of old-fashioned "no boys allowed, focus on your posture" type of schools.

    I thought it was great, personally, and was more of a role-reversal than straight up exploiting females as victims. How often do you see stories where the serial killer is a female high school student who targets other female students? If the killer was a male I could sort of see your point, but in this case it was more about her exploiting her status as a beloved, inspirational student to all her admirers.

    Plus the whole Titus Andronicus thing. I don't know about you, but that shit ain't sexy in the least.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    I really don't think women being victimized has anything to do with fanservice. It's meant to make the crimes more shocking and disturbing by targeting victims that are more helpless and innocent than adult men. You could call it sexist, but I don't think the producers of the show expect anyone to be turned on by it.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    I guess it just comes down to context for me. Really the only cases that seem to lack legit context and thus could just be arbitary 'let's use a woman!' thinking is
    The woman in episode 1, the woman in the music flashback episode (and she is just a bystander, really, doesn't even show any skin or anything like that and is just a brief hostage/human shield) and another one I am pretty sure you haven't seen yet, Kana (minor though)
    . All the others make sense as to why they are women specifically, and are whatever their other character elements are first, and women second, in terms of relevance to their place in the story.

    Anzekay on
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    Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    It's a moot argument either way, since again there are plenty of male victims shown as well.

    The only kidnapping that was specifically engineered up be exploited was
    Yuki, which was entirely intentional to lure in Akane (and make her suffer by witnessing her death).

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    It's a moot argument either way, since again there are plenty of male victims shown as well.

    The only kidnapping that was specifically engineered up be exploited was
    Yuki, which was entirely intentional to lure in Akane (and make her suffer by witnessing her death).

    And of course it is important to note that
    The reason she was kidnapped and killed in such a horrible way was because she was Akane's friend, first and foremost, rather than anything else. That is, to me, the scariest thing about the whole event.

    I am also going to very solidly say that if this show was written by a considerable number of any other anime/manga writers, or produced by a lot of other studios, there'd be a lot more to question about the portrayal of women. It doesn't take much effort to point at a lot of other 'gritty' shows that are pretty solid, but have far too much of that sort of stuff going on. It's really unfortunate, too, when it happens in a good series.

    Anzekay on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Well, again, I'm not saying it feels out of place, per se. Each of the female victims (mostly) have a reason for being in the story, and it's certainly well executed from a horror aspect. But my question is more about why is the story always about female victims who are getting stripped and murdered (or murdered and stripped, sometimes). There's undeniably been faaaar more female victims than men. Yeah maybe there's a uniquely horrifying aspect to that, but still... Eh. Like I said, I'm going to rewatch the show before I really make up my mind about anything, I just think it's a weak point of a show that's really good in most other ways.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I guess it's your perogative to feel that way, and I certainly can't hold it against you, but out of all the cases we've seen it's been a total of
    3 of them that have had women get stripped in some way. Episode 1, the school arc, and yuki (and in her case, barely)
    That's not really 'always' in my books, and I suppose that's why it doesn't seem like a trend to me, especially when one of those instances was very much a part of a greater concept than simply women getting stripped and murdered.

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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I guess they forgot to develop blood-detectors.

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