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The Work-from-Home Debate.

halkunhalkun Registered User regular
edited March 2013 in Debate and/or Discourse
In recent tech news, Yahoo’s new CEO, Marissa Mayer, decided that employees could no longer work from home. They had until June to start working from the office, but if they are unable to relocate, they would no longer be working for the company. Shortly after this, Best Buy implemented this policy too. What has come out of this is cacophony of yelling and screaming from people in the tech industry that killing work-from home is a bad idea and will kill Yahoo’s already anemic productivity.

Earlier this week, it was revealed that Marissa looked at the VPN logs and found many employees not even logging in while they were at home. What came from this is another round of yelling and screaming that looking at VPN logs is not a good metric for productivity and if the work is getting done, there not really a need for metrics at all.

Here’s the odd bit. At my company I recently was given the *privilege* to work from home. For me to even get this I had to keep my metrics in 90% area for about a year. Now I don’t have a home office or anything. My apartment is actually 9x12 feet (I do have my own bathroom though, so that’s cool!)

To even log into my office from home I need a special cable connection (That my company is paying for), that gives me a LAN address. I also require a special router that will only work when it’s physically connected to my work laptop. From here, I log into the office using a WoW-like authenticator, then fire up a remote desktop session to a virtual machine and start my day. My software phone is the only application my computer runs “natively” and even that goes though the router.

Working from home and not connecting to VPN is completely alien to me. How can you not? How is there any accountability? If the computer’s not connecting back to the office, you might as well not even be at work. Now I admit, I do work for a company that deals with lots of secure info, but VPN is an encrypted connection to allow you to get company resources. If you are not even using the company infrastructure at work, then what are you doing? Am I not seeing the same thing Marissa is seeing?

wVo0Rgr.png
halkun on
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Posts

  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    This kind of thing does happen a fair bit - but does the fraud happen enough to stymie the whole concept? I would think not, unless one's ability as employer to monitor and manage employees is low.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    If you're not logged into the VPN during business hours, you're probably full of shit.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
    fedaykin666darklite_x
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    I work from home without logging in to VPN all the time. Writing, Googling, email and phone calls don't require it. If I was working with secure data, I wouldn't be doing it at home anyway.

    It all depends on what you do and what tools you need to do it.

    spacekungfumanCaptain CarrotShadowBladezagdrobIncenjucarHonkfedaykin666
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    it would depend a lot on the specifics of how their infrastructure is set up, but it would be totally believable that their programmers could do their jobs for a day or two without ever connecting to the VPN.

    Eventually you'd need to sync with source control and such. But if you synced your laptop before you left you could be productive for a day or two with no connection for sure.

    FeralIncenjucar
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Quid wrote: »
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

    I think the real problem is she's CEO of a company with no real reason for existing. I honestly doubt she thinks she can turn Y! around, she's just there to look important for a couple of years, make her money, and get the heck out of dodge before it finally goes banko.

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    QuidFeralPanda4YouRagnar DragonfyreEdith UpwardsshrykezagdrobIncenjucarSnorkZilla360HachfaceRegina FonggtrmpHounfugacitySCREECH OF THE FARG
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

    two things about Mayer that I think really sum up what she is like as a manager of people:

    1) She was complaining that since the parking lot emptied out after 5 PM there must not be much work getting done.

    2) She recently had a kid. Which is a big thing for a CEO. Glass ceiling and all. So she had a full nursury built in the room next to her office and has it staffed. And with that much at her disposal in terms of resources likes to complain about "feminists" who can't get their jobs done and have a kid.

    FeralDehumanizedAngelHedgieElldrenArthilRagnar DragonfyreEdith UpwardsCasualzagdrobIncenjucarMan in the MistsRegina FongHonkdarklite_x
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    I work from home without logging in to VPN all the time. Writing, Googling, email and phone calls don't require it. If I was working with secure data, I wouldn't be doing it at home anyway.

    It all depends on what you do and what tools you need to do it.

    Your company email doesn't require you to use the VPN?
    or do you use your phone?

    I work from home occasionally and the culture at my company is, when you login in the morning you give a quick "Red 5 Standing by" to the boss and a "Fuck dis shit. Imma watch Girls. Peas!" when you're done.

    If you aren't connected, I don't know you're actually doing anything or even available via email. VPN logs on their own aren't a good metric of anything other than potential fucking off.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    I work from home without logging in to VPN all the time. Writing, Googling, email and phone calls don't require it. If I was working with secure data, I wouldn't be doing it at home anyway.

    It all depends on what you do and what tools you need to do it.

    Your company email doesn't require you to use the VPN?
    or do you use your phone?

    I work from home occasionally and the culture at my company is, when you login in the morning you give a quick "Red 5 Standing by" to the boss and a "Fuck dis shit. Imma watch Girls. Peas!" when you're done.

    If you aren't connected, I don't know you're actually doing anything or even available via email. VPN logs on their own aren't a good metric of anything other than potential fucking off.

    every place I've worked doesn't require a full VPN connection to access email. They have web portals or whatever.

    FeralmcdermottSo It GoessurrealitycheckzagdrobHonkShazkar Shadowstorm
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Requiring a VPN to access email is extraordinarily rare.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    surrealitycheckdporowskiHonkShazkar Shadowstorm
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

    two things about Mayer that I think really sum up what she is like as a manager of people:

    1) She was complaining that since the parking lot emptied out after 5 PM there must not be much work getting done.

    2) She recently had a kid. Which is a big thing for a CEO. Glass ceiling and all. So she had a full nursury built in the room next to her office and has it staffed. And with that much at her disposal in terms of resources likes to complain about "feminists" who can't get their jobs done and have a kid.

    The 5pm bit was hilarious. All she's doing is incentivising having your car there until 5pm. Nothing more. It's not a useful metric.

    Same for the VPN bit. If the only way you have to show an employee is working is presence, you've got bigger issues. I can do a lot of work without VPN access (though i don't routinely telework).

    The thing with Mayer on the feminist side is that she's proving the unpleasant truth that it wasn't just men who didn't understand the issue working moms/women face, or childless women, but wealthy ass people...period. Even as a new mom, she can be just as out of touch.

    Surprise!

    Panda4YouEdith UpwardsshrykeIncenjucarRegina FongHonkPLA
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    Don't the people who work from home negotiate that in their contract? I mean, I'd expect the people who are abusing the system to get fired or reprimanded, but everyone? Everyone isn't watching Girls and Game of Thrones in their boxers and if she looked a the VPN traffic she should know that.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Malkor wrote: »
    Don't the people who work from home negotiate that in their contract? I mean, I'd expect the people who are abusing the system to get fired or reprimanded, but everyone? Everyone isn't watching Girls and Game of Thrones in their boxers and if she looked a the VPN traffic she should know that.

    Why does it matter if they are?

    surrealitycheck
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    I don't require VPN access to do email (only to encrypt).

    And I can do a lot over the phone.

    And a lot without a connection at all, depending what I'm working on.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Also, requiring remote users to log in to a VPN is also extremely rare.

    Keep in mind that in traditional office environments, telecommuting tends to grow from the techs used to support road warriors like mobile salespeople.

    Road warriors have to be able to connect across a huge diversity of remote networks (unless you're giving them mobile broadband cards, but those are expensive) and sometimes VPN clients just don't work. Maybe the necessary protocols are blocked, maybe there's another technical reason, maybe the connection is just too flaky.

    So there's kind of a push in IT to get away from old dial-up style PPTP VPNs into always-on encryption like SSL. (Example: Microsoft DirectAccess.)

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Requiring a VPN to access email is extraordinarily rare.

    I shouldn't be surprised that this joint is behind the tech curve, lol.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
    shryke
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

    Part of Mayer's problem is that she's trying to use "look, I'm a new mom and I'm still coming into the office" to defend herself, while expecting everyone to ignore that she had things set up at Yahoo so she could.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Was Mayer's problem that people weren't getting their job done? Or was it that people weren't getting their job done while pretending to work super hard at it?

    Part of Mayer's problem is that she's trying to use "look, I'm a new mom and I'm still coming into the office" to defend herself, while expecting everyone to ignore that she had things set up at Yahoo so she could.

    Yeah, she sounds like a combination of asshole and stupid mothefucker.

    Which is why she's CEO of fucking Yahoo, instead of a real company.

    RiemannLivesQuidAiouaFeralAngelHedgieElldrenPunchy McFistShadowfireEdith UpwardsshrykeCasualzagdrobStollsDoctorArchIncenjucarSnorkRegina FongHonkHacksawGnizmoSCREECH OF THE FARG
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    Don't the people who work from home negotiate that in their contract? I mean, I'd expect the people who are abusing the system to get fired or reprimanded, but everyone? Everyone isn't watching Girls and Game of Thrones in their boxers and if she looked a the VPN traffic she should know that.

    Why does it matter if they are?

    Exactly.

    here's the thing - in my job, I get a lot of questions about telecommuting that basically boil down to, "How do we know the employee is actually working during their shift?"

    The answer is: you don't, but they end up working more anyway. And here's what I tell business owners (execs and managers):

    Think about your typical workday in the office. You commute in, which probably takes about 45m. You have some coffee, do some work for a few hours - during that time, are you equally as productive for every moment, or do you have slumps? You probably have slumps. Everybody does.

    A telecommuter has those slumps too - an experienced telecommuter knows to take a break during that slump. So maybe at 10:30, the telecommuter gets on her exercise bike or watches a half-hour of TV.

    But that same telecommuter will be online again after dinner, at 9:30pm, when her husband is watching a movie and her kids are in bed.

    There is a ton of data that shows that the average telecommuter ends up working more hours per day overall, and spaces them out longer. The telecommuter is always on-shift; any time that they're alert, the tools for them to be productive are literally in their home. When you let a good employee work from home, on average you will get 10-12 solid hours of productivity, broken up into chunks from 6am when that employee rolls out of bed to 10pm when she gets in her pajamas.

    You will know when a telecommuter isn't doing their work. It will be obvious. A bad employee's productivity will drop off and their communications will be less prompt. At that point, you can revoke their telecommuting privileges, or take other disciplinary action. But it happens far less often than people think it does.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    shrykeBethrynP10
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    As for Yahoo, it's a sinking ship, and the first thing that captains do with sinking ships is batten down the hatches.

    All of a sudden, bosses get more controlling, more micromanaging, old privileges get revoked. It's a company in crisis mode.

    LinkedIn and DICE and the rest of the professional IT world are running these articles like, "Is Yahoo's telecommuting ban the way of the future?"

    No. Nothing about Yahoo is the way of the future. Yahoo is history.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    QuidmcdermottSo It GoesMortiousElldrenEchoShadowfireEdith UpwardsshrykeCasualzagdrobDark Raven XStollsDoctorArchIncenjucarMan in the MistsHachfaceRegina FongHacksawP10SCREECH OF THE FARG
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Requiring a VPN to access email is extraordinarily rare.

    I shouldn't be surprised that this joint is behind the tech curve, lol.

    Are you a Blackberry-only company?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    My company closed one office three years ago and sent everyone home as kind of a test run. One year later, they did the same to the other two non-East Coast locations.

    The cost of having people work from home vs. the cost of having facilities for those people was a no brainer. I've been out of my house for the last two years (VPN connected, but I work with call software) and it's been fine. I miss social interaction, but I don't think that's the reasoning for Yahoo on this one.

    Last pint: RPM / Boneyard
    Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Feral wrote: »
    Yahoo is history.
    I found a solution for the dying company.

    emnmnme on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    This conversation caused me to consider that most of the people I interact with in a typical work day (from the perspective of getting stuff done, as opposed to just chatting or whatever) are not physically located in the same building I am.

    mcdermottEdith Upwardsfedaykin666SCREECH OF THE FARG
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    See, my softphone goes though the VPN, and when I log into my phone is when I effectively "punch in" for the day. Anyone at anytime can listen into my calls and check what I'm doing by looking on the virtual server, so it's more than just "looking to see if I'm on VPN or not". Everything I do is logged, from phone calls to email. Without a VPN connection, I couldn't even begin to work. I'd have no phone, no email, no desktop, no nothing!.

    Now I do IT work for a financial company's home office too. The field staff don't have to jump though as much hoops, but they still need VPN to get thier email (Connect to the exchange servers) and access the client database.

    wVo0Rgr.png
    Ragnar Dragonfyre
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Requiring a VPN to access email is extraordinarily rare.

    I shouldn't be surprised that this joint is behind the tech curve, lol.

    Are you a Blackberry-only company?

    Palm...

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    Man we are kicking BB to the curb this summer. We use Good for Enterprise. Nice and generic and works on most popular phones and devices.

    wVo0Rgr.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    See, my softphone goes though the VPN, and when I log into my phone is when I effectively "punch in" for the day. Anyone at anytime can listen into my calls and check what I'm doing by looking on the virtual server, so it's more than just "looking to see if I'm on VPN or not". Everything I do is logged, from phone calls to email. Without a VPN connection, I couldn't even begin to work. I'd have no phone, no email, no desktop, no nothing!.

    Now I do IT work for a financial company's home office too. The field staff don't have to jump though as much hoops, but they still need VPN to get thier email (Connect to the exchange servers) and access the client database.

    Out of the box, Microsoft Exchange supports encryption via SSL and remote access via HTTPS.

    The way a plain vanilla Exchange server communicates with an iPhone or Android in the field is via HTTPS - in many small-business cases, the address that the phone connects to for email is running on the exact same server as the web-based email portal.

    So a user who wants to use the web portal to check email would go to https://mail.company.com while his phone would go to https://mail.company.com/ActiveSync.

    The authentication method and encryption level are functionally equivalent.

    And in fact newer versions of Outlook do exactly the same thing - in certain common implementations, they wrap up all client-server communication with HTTPS. This is almost invisible to the user - I have users right now who can go to any location with Internet access, open up their laptops, enter their network password, and use Outlook as if they were in the office.

    There's really no need for a VPN at this point. All privileged communication is wrapped up in robust encryption. If accountability is an issue, I can just check the Exchange server logs for user activity.

    There might be other software in use at a company that doesn't have native features for encrypting authentication and client-server communication; those platforms will require a VPN for secure remote access. But a lot of major enterprise software is creeping towards HTTPS & SSL as the baked-in default method for client-server communication.

    That doesn't mean that VPNs are going away entirely, it just means that the old model of tunneling all traffic to and from a device through a VPN is shifting more towards per-application encryption. It's like having multiple small simultaneous encrypted connections, instead of one huge tunnel.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    zagdrob
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    Read the thread. You have two companies in crisis doing the exact wrong thing, and making a mess of it. The Yahoo CEO really stepped in it, due to her using her new motherhood as justification while expecting the rest of us to ignore the nursery she had installed into her office.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    That's nice. Keep on guessing I suppose.

    Edith Upwards
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Requiring a VPN to access email is extraordinarily rare.
    I shouldn't be surprised that this joint is behind the tech curve, lol.
    Are you a Blackberry-only company?
    Palm...
    I'm honestly not sure if you're being serious or joking, here.

    Hacksaw
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    Read the thread. You have two companies in crisis doing the exact wrong thing, and making a mess of it. The Yahoo CEO really stepped in it, due to her using her new motherhood as justification while expecting the rest of us to ignore the nursery she had installed into her office.

    I did. A few things:
    1. WFH and kids - If you are employed full time at a company, you cannot be watching your kids while working, you have to hire a nanny. Any remotely sane company requires this.
    2. Marissa comes from Google, which has a strong campus culture to foster good work. These steps are probably part of an overall plan to improve the work product of the company. I can say for software dev, things go exponentially faster during design if everyone is in the same place.
    3. If there is poor management, having people in the office helps expose it vs. employees not doing work. If they're working from home, every manager can fall back on "they're not doing their jobs even though I'm assigning work"
    4. It could just be that they want a lot of people to quit without having to pay them proper severance.

    Note that I'm saying these things as someone who works from home full-time.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    Read the thread. You have two companies in crisis doing the exact wrong thing, and making a mess of it. The Yahoo CEO really stepped in it, due to her using her new motherhood as justification while expecting the rest of us to ignore the nursery she had installed into her office.

    Mayer's basically the working mom edition of Romney's "just borrow some money from your parents to start a business" brand of hilarious detachment from society.

    And telework probably doesn't seem like such a big deal when you can afford a driver, cook, housekeeper, personal shopper, nanny, etc. And when transportation to work isn't even necessarily a significant line item in your family budget.

    And none of this changes the fact that Mayer, through her quotes, obviously seems to think presence is a reliable indicator of work. I can do sudokus until 6pm in the can every night, but as far as she's concerned I'm a superstar...my car's still in the lot!

    QuidEchoEdith UpwardszagdrobHacksaw
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    Read the thread. You have two companies in crisis doing the exact wrong thing, and making a mess of it. The Yahoo CEO really stepped in it, due to her using her new motherhood as justification while expecting the rest of us to ignore the nursery she had installed into her office.

    I did. A few things:
    1. WFH and kids - If you are employed full time at a company, you cannot be watching your kids while working, you have to hire a nanny. Any remotely sane company requires this.
    2. Marissa comes from Google, which has a strong campus culture to foster good work. These steps are probably part of an overall plan to improve the work product of the company. I can say for software dev, things go exponentially faster during design if everyone is in the same place.
    3. If there is poor management, having people in the office helps expose it vs. employees not doing work. If they're working from home, every manager can fall back on "they're not doing their jobs even though I'm assigning work"
    4. It could just be that they want a lot of people to quit without having to pay them proper severance.

    Note that I'm saying these things as someone who works from home full-time.

    I think (4) is definitely a factor, though admittedly I won't dismiss the rest out of hand. But thinning the herd is almost certainly a goal, and this is a shitty way to do it. As a society, we should probably encourage some amount of telework, in general, where practical.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    Some people can be trusted to work from home. Others not. I'm guessing there's more to these stories than meets the eye.

    Read the thread. You have two companies in crisis doing the exact wrong thing, and making a mess of it. The Yahoo CEO really stepped in it, due to her using her new motherhood as justification while expecting the rest of us to ignore the nursery she had installed into her office.

    I did. A few things:
    1. WFH and kids - If you are employed full time at a company, you cannot be watching your kids while working, you have to hire a nanny. Any remotely sane company requires this.
    2. Marissa comes from Google, which has a strong campus culture to foster good work. These steps are probably part of an overall plan to improve the work product of the company. I can say for software dev, things go exponentially faster during design if everyone is in the same place.
    3. If there is poor management, having people in the office helps expose it vs. employees not doing work. If they're working from home, every manager can fall back on "they're not doing their jobs even though I'm assigning work"
    4. It could just be that they want a lot of people to quit without having to pay them proper severance.

    Note that I'm saying these things as someone who works from home full-time.

    I think (4) is definitely a factor, though admittedly I won't dismiss the rest out of hand. But thinning the herd is almost certainly a goal, and this is a shitty way to do it. As a society, we should probably encourage some amount of telework, in general, where practical.

    Yes, I think some degree of WFH is ideal, as it lets people do shit in their lives way more easily. That said, it takes an institutional commitment to good communication to make it work, which most companies can't even manage when everyone is in the office.

    Also yes, that's a shitty way to shed staff, but it's a way that lets them do it without saying "layoffs".

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I work from home a ton. Sometimes I don't log in at all. No need to be on the VPN or Citrix if I'm just on phone calls all day. I have my email on my iPhone and iPad anyway, and have even spent whole days just using the iPad before. . .

    I think working from home can be a huge productivity boost (no time wasted getting read or commuting), and eliminating it is foolhardy.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    1. WFH and kids - If you are employed full time at a company, you cannot be watching your kids while working, you have to hire a nanny. Any remotely sane company requires this.
    2. Marissa comes from Google, which has a strong campus culture to foster good work. These steps are probably part of an overall plan to improve the work product of the company. I can say for software dev, things go exponentially faster during design if everyone is in the same place.
    3. If there is poor management, having people in the office helps expose it vs. employees not doing work. If they're working from home, every manager can fall back on "they're not doing their jobs even though I'm assigning work"
    4. It could just be that they want a lot of people to quit without having to pay them proper severance.

    This is a good post. Number 4, in particular, was corroborated by an 'unnamed source' via Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-marissa-mayer-told-remote-employees-to-work-in-an-office--or-quit-2013-2
    Mayer saw another side-benefit to making this move. She knows that some remote workers won't want to start coming into the office and so they will quit. That helps Yahoo, which needs to cut costs. It's a layoff that's not a layoff.

    The BI article also illustrates something else about Yahoo that is... well... quite interesting:
    "A lot of people hid. There were all these employees [working remotely] and nobody knew they were still at Yahoo."

    ...

    Mayer is happy to give Yahoo employees standard Silicon Valley benefits like free food and free smartphones. But our source says the kinds of work-from-home arrangements popular at Yahoo were not common to other Valley companies like Google or Facebook. "This is a collaborative businesses."

    When you're telecommuting, you have to be actively engaged with your coworkers or your boss every single day. This isn't just for accountability, this is also because the best way to keep on your company's good side is to continually demonstrate your value. An invisible employee doesn't get promoted, at least not in the US.

    So if Yahoo had a lot of telecommuting employees who were effectively invisible, that says something about the company's management structure.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    mcdermottDeebasershryke
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    in any job where you need people to be thinking even moderately creatively intellectually standard working practice is actively harmful, and measuring performance by hours worked is objectively laughable

    working from home is a great way of letting some people work in a way that is vastly more conducive to actually getting shit done, but it has the downside of terrified managers being unable to keep an eye on everybody

    which is exactly the fuckin point doggz

    obF2Wuw.png
    QuidEchoEdith UpwardsshrykePLA
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Yeah, it sounds like their VPN people were mailing it in for years and just collecting a paycheck. Sounds like a former manager I knew. He was laid off (LONG overdue) and he transitioned his entire job in 20 minutes.

    Feral
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