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Strip Search - Elimination #4

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Posts

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what sort of explanation you are looking for. Short of a word-by-word analysis that's going to result in different opinions and lots of semantic sidetracks. I read the words. I read your description. They don't seem to match up to me.

    So what do you think actually happend? You've never specified... just thrown out quotes and expected us to come to the same conclusion.

    From what little I've been able to gather, you think that Mike went into that challenge, saw the two comics, thought "I know, if I get rid of these two guys, I can give Lexxy another shot." Suggested double elimination, then did not bring up the idea to bring Lexxy back, instead waiting mutely in the hope that someone else would bring it up. Finally Kathleen brought it up, and he was relieved, "agreeing" to an idea he had secretly had from the start?

    And you think that tortured, deceptive chain of events is the most logical conclusion to reach from the available evidence? I mean I could be wrong about what you think happened, since I don't remember you ever outlining your theory.

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  • pocketpinspocketpins Registered User regular
    To Remil and the others who are having trouble swallowing the elimination decision. "As any connoisseur of reality tv will tell you," people watch reality shows precisely for these sorts of twists. American Idol, Project Runway, and many other reality game shows frequently throw in twists to their contest. It's not a pretigious competition with explicit rules than can't be subverted. This is a reality show, which MEANS the rules will get bent and broken. If your expectations were different, I'm sorry to tell you that you'd be in the minority. Also, they will get more viewers if they do things that a few people really don't like. They want people to love the show or hate it, but not be indifferent to it. That won't make them any more money, and it wont get people to keep coming back.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    ahdok wrote: »
    I kinda feel that everyone has decided what they're going to decide about this already, so continuing to discuss it is starting to become a bit moot (especially given a new episode will open up an entirely different can of worms very soon.) - so I've spent today drawing a comic about a baby turning into a dinosaur.

    Well at some point, you are either having a discussion in order to expand the collective understanding of something, or you are talking past each other in the hopes that if you expound your opinion long enough or loud enough, you will "win" the argument.

    Also, I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to talk about drawing comics with dinosaurs without posting a link in the thread. It's like, perma-ban if you don't, just like the kitty thread.

    a.k.a. Antaeus or Nubmonger

    -A digital receiver in an analog world.
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    So what do you think actually happend? You've never specified... just thrown out quotes and expected us to come to the same conclusion.

    I'm fairly certain I explained this explicitly in the last post.

    I think that if I had to rank them in order of likelihood, Khoo's version of events is the plurality favorite. Some unknown similar version but with key differences would be second. The "they were eliminated with the intent of bringing Lexxy back in" is the least likely of the trio, but certainly plausible enough to not be dismissed.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    So what do you think actually happend? You've never specified... just thrown out quotes and expected us to come to the same conclusion.

    I'm fairly certain I explained this explicitly in the last post.

    I think that if I had to rank them in order of likelihood, Khoo's version of events is the plurality favorite. Some unknown similar version but with key differences would be second. The "they were eliminated with the intent of bringing Lexxy back in" is the least likely of the trio, but certainly plausible enough to not be dismissed.

    So let me get this straight.

    You're specifying "I think something different happened, but I don't know what, can't explain what, and don't know why I think it."

    Because "some unknown similar versions with key differences" is virtually meaningless.

    And then you say that Khoo's version of events is the plurality favorite... but other posts from you indicate that you don't think it's the most likely explanation. So I've basically got no idea what you think happened, which is why I'm trying to get you to explain it.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Well, if you want to be absolutely, positively convinced that one of the two versions we've been told is 100%, undoubtedly the unvarnished truth, so be it.

    I know a little too much about human nature and memory to find that to be probable, but that's just me.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    Well, if you want to be absolutely, positively convinced that one of the two versions we've been told is 100%, undoubtedly the unvarnished truth, so be it.

    I know a little too much about human nature and memory to find that to be probable, but that's just me.

    So you're saying that you simply think something more suspicious happened, but you don't actually have any idea what this theoretical more suspicious similar event was. And you think that this mysterious, inexplicable, unknowable series of events happened simply because you think that, due to human nature, the version of the story that fits all the accounts is impossible?

    If not, then just describe what you think happened!

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    No. I'm saying that I don't find any of the versions convincing enough to be completely convinced of their truth. We have a few passing statements that contradict each other and some heavily edited video. Not exactly a high standard of evidence.

    The version that you think "makes the most sense" simply does not make as much sense to me.

    Edit: It makes enough sense for me not to reject it, of course. Which is why I said I consider it a plurality favorite. If you are inferring otherwise from my other posts, then I think you should question your inferences when you've got me explicitly saying otherwise. I'm at least as credible as Khoo, surely? :)

    Inkstain82 on
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    No. I'm saying that I don't find any of the versions convincing enough to be completely convinced of their truth. We have a few passing statements that contradict each other and some heavily edited video. Not exactly a high standard of evidence.

    The version that you think "makes the most sense" simply does not make as much sense to me.

    Again, what do you think happened? What statements do you think are contradictory?

    If you think the version I've presented isn't plausible, what do you think is plausible? Where do you see the contradictions you claim exist? You've been unable to support any of your claims. You've basically been saying "your version doesn't make sense. I cannot describe any version of events that does make sense, but I know your version doesn't make sense."

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Again again, I've told you that I don't think we have enough evidence to definitively state what happened. I've got a fair bit of experience questioning people about events they've been involved in, and eyewitness statements aren't the most reliable. They are frequently inaccurate, even when describing their own actions.

    It may feel like there's some sort of moral requirement for me to stake out a definitive stance and defend it to the death, and that is undoubtedly a great way to try to win debates, but I don't find that to be the most effective way to understand a situation such as this.

    I find Khoo's statements to contradict Mike's. Mike's statement clearly states that he was considering Lexxy's comeback when he made the decision to eliminate the other two contestants.

    I find Khoo's statement a bit more credible. It's more detailed, and Mike may have been explaining himself poorly. But I don't find it to be so incredibly convincing that I'm willing to dismiss every other conceivable explanation out of hand.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Why do you think Mike's statement implies he was considering Lexxy's comeback when he looked at the other two artists, rather than just considering the comparative overall performances in elimination 3 vs. the comparative overall performances in elimination 4?

    He says he was disappointed by the art, based on the great showing the previous night, which illustrated that artists could do work in that short period. Then, when someone else suggested that they bring Lexxy back, he looked at the art and decided she needed another shot.

    That description of events is in no way contradicted by Mike's statement. For you to continue to claim that it does is what's confusing to me.

    It would be much more accurate for you to say "I feel that, while there's one interpretation of Mike's statement that in no way contradicts Khoo's statement, I have chosen to interpret it in a different way."

    Would you agree with that? That there IS a non-contradictory interpretation, but you've decided that you prefer the interpretation that makes the statement contradictory. And would you also agree that you are able to provide no explanation for the fact that Kathleen brought up the idea of bringing Lexxy back, so you choose to simply not think about or address that fact?

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    negativefx
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    I find the contradictory statement to be the far more logical interpretation of his words. The non-contradictory one is fairly tortured.
    I love both Nick and Mac but after looking at those two comics I was incredibly disappointed. Remember that for me the previous elimination had just happened the night before. I looked at the work in front of me and I felt like Lexxy deserved one more shot.

    The first sentence clearly establishes that he was talking about "after looking at those two comics." Not later in the night talking to the other producers. After looking at them.

    The final sentence has two clauses. The first reconnects to the first sentence. "I looked at the work in front of me" is restating what he said in the first sentence, establishing that this is a continuation of that thought. "I felt like Lexxy deserved on more shot" is the emotion he said he felt after looking at those two comics.

    It's quite explicit. It takes a torturing of the words and their meaning to get a non-contradictory explanation.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    I find the contradictory statement to be the far more logical interpretation of his words. The non-contradictory one is fairly tortured.
    I love both Nick and Mac but after looking at those two comics I was incredibly disappointed. Remember that for me the previous elimination had just happened the night before. I looked at the work in front of me and I felt like Lexxy deserved one more shot.

    The first sentence clearly establishes that he was talking about "after looking at those two comics." Not later in the night talking to the other producers. After looking at them.

    The final sentence has two clauses. The first reconnects to the first sentence. "I looked at the work in front of me" is restating what he said in the first sentence, establishing that this is a continuation of that thought. "I felt like Lexxy deserved on more shot" is the emotion he said he felt after looking at those two comics.

    It's quite explicit. It takes a torturing of the words and their meaning to get a non-contradictory explanation.

    I disagree. I don't even know what you're saying here. Let me try to break it down sentence by sentence, because you keep failing to make it clear why you find this so confusing.

    "I love both Nick and Mac but after looking at those two comics I was incredibly disappointed."
    Mike sees comics, is disappointed.
    "Remember that for me the previous elimination had just happened the night before."
    He recalls the overall performance from the previous elimination, so he knows that it's possible to create a quality comic.
    "I looked at the work in front of me and I felt like Lexxy deserved one more shot."
    At the end of the night, he looked at the work in front of him and felt like Lexxy deserved one more shot.

    So you're saying, specifically, that it is incredibly tortured to imagine that the first two sentences refer to what happened when he decided on the double elimination, and the third sentence refers to what happened later that night.

    So, in your mind
    Tortured = assuming that someone would refer to events that happened half an hour apart in the same paragraph.
    Not tortured = assuming that Mike, wanting to get Lexxy back, would keep silent while everyone wondered how to restore balance to the competition, pretending that he didn't have any ideas, hoping that someone else would bring up Lexxy, until Kathleen finally did.

    I don't understand that logic. Unless you think Khoo lied about the idea coming from Kathleen, why do you think Gabe remained silent? To me, that's a much bigger contradiction, and one that is definitely 100% explicit in your interpretation, and only in your interpretation.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Yes. I find that trying to separate "after looking at those two comics" and "I looked at the work in front of me" into two separate settings to be an incredibly tortured interpretation. They were in the same paragraph, and one is clearly a callback to the other. He had an explanatory digression in the second sentence and was reestablishing the connection to the first sentence by restating the setting.

    Why does it contradict Khoo's version? I won't pretend to know. Maybe Mike is misremembering. Maybe Khoo is. Maybe one of them is lying.

    But it does contradict.

    I think your questions show a misplaced faith in people's explanations of their own actions. Our memories are much more works-in-progress than they are video recordings. It's entirely possible that one or the other has retconned what happened to such a degree that they remember it incorrectly.

    Inkstain82 on
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Ok. So you would rather believe that someone is either misremembering or lying than that Mike wrote a paragraph that wasn't clear. I understand.

    Personally, I don't find the interpretation I gave even remotely tortured, but then again, I've read a lot of descriptions of events written by non-writers, and the kind of mistake you're saying is torturous and unlikely is literally one of the most common mistakes I see.

    Also, straight from the horse's mouth:
    2mn2hcl.png

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    Well, if you want to be absolutely, positively convinced that one of the two versions we've been told is 100%, undoubtedly the unvarnished truth, so be it.

    I know a little too much about human nature and memory to find that to be probable, but that's just me.

    You... you do realize that Khoo doesn't just appear in the show, but he's actually one of the producers right? So the events aren't just from memory, he's no doubt seen the unedited videos of himself as well? No need to for him to rely on the vagaries of human memory when there's video, man.

    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/

    “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.”
  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    Khoo does not speak in vagueries or untruths. Never imply such a thing ever again.

    Cambiatadosukoi7Sandra Snan
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Sejarki wrote: »
    Khoo does not speak in vagueries or untruths. Never imply such a thing ever again.

    I don't know, I kind of like the fictional speculation of Khoo as some sort of reality TV James Bond, carefuly presenting facts in such a way that it obscures his real actions, editing video so that he appears as merely a humble producer instead of the mystery man he really is, maybe having sex with Mike to keep him quiet.

    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/

    “Let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season, we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.”
  • negativefxnegativefx Registered User regular
    At this point, just looking forward to Tuesday's episode.

  • KnytestormeKnytestorme Registered User regular
    Shref wrote: »
    Lexxy's was SO good that she deserved a second chance.

    Isn't this like her 3rd or 4th chance though, considering previous interactions with the team?

    Pavio
  • JacenDarkriderJacenDarkrider Registered User new member
    In my opinion this was the wrong call considering the current format and set of rules. Next season ( fingers crossed) I think they should have challenges give time extensions on elimination rounds, or straight up immunity. Then have a the entire lot of contestants do the elimination rounds. That way you can truly weed out the " weakest links" ( lets face it these guys are all insanely talented) efficiently with out having to become the last rules benders. That being said I'm glad lexxy is back because she is very very talented.
    P.S. Even if she didn't win this competition just hire her for the love of the gods. You know you wanna stop making excuses.

    elheber
  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Why isn't there a link to the Strip Search sub-site on that top bar of Penny-Arcade.com ? Am I blind? There seems to be no real obvious way to reach it.

    edit: Ah, it's under PATV, fair enough I suppose.

    Sejarki on
  • CRasterImageCRasterImage Registered User new member
    I think a lot of the nay-sayers here are forgetting something.

    Running this show is a lot like being a Dungeon Master.
    They have the right to change things arbitrarily.
    Sure, there is a DM's Guide (rules) that they follow.
    But that is just a guideline.
    If the DM feels like the game is getting too hard, or too easy, or off-track, they reserve the right to arbitrarily change the rules.

    The same goes for this show.
    They felt that things had gone off-track.
    So, they stepped in with their DM powers and put it back on-track.
    At least, that is how they see it.

    I tend to agree.
    As much as I like Nick, I don't think he (or Mac) were among the top cartoonists in the group.

    But Lexxy was.

    It was an arbitrary decision that runs outside the DM's Guide.
    But they had the right to make it. If not the duty to.

    Angry_Samoang011umblagh
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    In any case, it's about five minutes to the next episode launch, so it's time to see what exactly the 'plans in the works' are.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • xThanatoSxxThanatoSx Registered User regular
    And now I'm F5'ing furiously on the strip search page for the next episode.

    Just very curious to see the reaction of everyone at the house when Lexxy walks back in that door.

    g011um
  • elheberelheber Registered User regular
    For a show that was so transparent in the previous elimination, the decision process of bringing someone back being absent from the final cut felt extremely out of place. What happened? We know the cameras record long into these decision making processes. Why didn't they show it? Extraordinary circumstances like this require it.

  • Sandra SnanSandra Snan Medium-sized European cityRegistered User regular
    Gosling: But a situation where both comics have been worse than the one eliminated previously has happened before—when both the Future Lost comics were worse than both Space Table Tennis comics. Of course, the random topics dictate that to a large degree.

    However, the original call in the Space Table Tennis was a lot clearer. They really agonized over the Lexxy call and I could see why they really wanted to undo that even at the expense of the integrity of the format, and I agree with their call to bring her back at the expense of Nick and Mac. God bless them for being saddled with Flatulence and Country Fair.

    The reason I think that Flatulence doesn’t really work as a “topic” is that it is more of a punch (and a very tired punch) than a topic. The “joke”, such as it is, is already in the topic. Sure, you can subvert it, and kudos to those who did. Some of the fan-made strips I’ve seen as a response to this challenge was, however, even worse than Nicks and Macs ones. As mine would’ve been.

    A guy that thinks another guy smells bad?
    A guy that can use his farts as rocket power?
    It’s just… it’s just already there in the topic. It doesn’t add anything.
    At least the contestants’ strips tried to add something.

  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Which may be true, Sandra, but was Alex's losing comic so much better than Katie's win over Ty that it would have been a huge injustice not to bring him back? To me, the answer is no. If you are to merit restoration, you had better be damn good. Not just good. Damn good. Lexxy's comic was damn good. Alex's may have been all right, but it wasn't damn good.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    Sandra Snan
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    It's funny... the fan comics for the flatulence country fair have actually contained some of the funnier and more interesting ones I've seen, while the fan comics for areola circus were almost universally much, much worse than the contest submissions, usually centering around the same two jokes, one of which was "Hey, that thing looks like a boob! Ha!" My favorite country fair one was the one that made fun of "your mom" jokes... it was funny AND poignant.

    Also, the line "I may not be an inventor but I do have a new idea for a jet pack" has made me laugh audibly MORE THAN ONCE today. That kid has great comedic phrasing.

    I'm not sure how my idea would have gone over, but I had one pretty much right away, which was not true for areola circus. Two friends walking around the country fair, the coiffed city-slicker being amazingly condescending, until she runs off to see the cute piggies, and is brought low by the stench, getting her appropriate comeuppance. It's not the freshest idea, but I think it would have at least registered with the judges as "containing a joke." I haven't done art with any level of serious in years, so I couldn't compete in this arena anyways.

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  • Sandra SnanSandra Snan Medium-sized European cityRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Gosling: You are completely right. It was clearly better, but it wasn’t damn much better, which Lexxy’s was.

    Sandra Snan on
  • Sandra SnanSandra Snan Medium-sized European cityRegistered User regular
    CGG: Oh, I didn’t see many of the areola fan made ones. The one I did see was the one with a pun about aerial acts and areola, which I thought was fine. Certainly on par with typical old-school cartoon humor.
    Is there a place where people share or collect these fan responses to the challenge?

  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    My thought was to go with 'Monty Python's Areola Circus' and work from there. But then, I can't draw for shit.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Sadly, I pretty much just see them as I trawl the twitter strip search tag and these boards. I also look at the tag on tumblr sometimes, but that leads to madness. I think someone commented here at one point that it's 90% references to this show and 10% terrible porn. I wish the internet were better organized.

    I'm actually contemplating doing a breakdown of the contestants' various webcomics at some point. My theory from the start has been that the people with the largest, funniest archives have the highest chance of winning. It's not holding up SO great so far, but I've done a lot of fun "research" trying to determine everyone's humor and productivity levels.

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  • Sandra SnanSandra Snan Medium-sized European cityRegistered User regular
    Ideally, I would’ve chosen Katie, Katie, Lexxy, and Mac, and then there’d be no need to tamper with the rules.

    But given that Lexxy was eliminated, which I disagreed with, I think it’s worth to “undo” that even at the cost of the structure of the format.

    Lexxy isn’t even my favorite overall—Monica is (and her skateboard was the best), but I would also think it would be great to see Abby prevail over Mike.
    Erica is the only one I read before Strip Search but she isn’t in my top.

    To all of the artists reading this. Sorry that I constantly rate and rank you. You are all great, and courageous. Keep up the good work.

    I also think that the format of this contest is very bad at seeing who would do the best work outside the context. Ty and Abby have both great web comics outside the show but haven’t shown much skill inside the house yet.
    So I try to see this show for what it is and then it becomes very fun.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    I feel terrible that I keep saying this, because I really DO like all the artists, but Lexxy wasn't even in the top 5, on either of my lists... the personal favorite one, or the "think they'll probably win" one. I am a well known member of team tangent, and also an avowed fan of Monica and Erika. I was kind of like Gabe, going into that challenge: "there's no way Lexxy's going to produce a good comic. She has zero archive pages!" And just like Gabe, I was pretty surprised at how well she did, though not as blown away as everyone else was. I didn't disagree with her elimination, either, but I felt that the not-burning-of-the-comic had a symbolic frisson, so to speak. The fact that it ended up being the thing that granted the extra life was so incredibly narratively satisfying, especially having just read a great book where a similar thing happened.

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  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    The reason I think that Flatulence doesn’t really work as a “topic” is that it is more of a punch (and a very tired punch) than a topic. The “joke”, such as it is, is already in the topic. Sure, you can subvert it, and kudos to those who did.

    Best flatulence related joke I've seen in a long time is from Tavis's Stranger Danger (in the spoiler below for manners). I think the Country Fair addition did not help them.
    2013-03-03-mystique-done.jpg

    Sejarki on
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    I linked one earlier in the thread, but Erika has an EXCELLENT stock of really great poop and fart jokes. I've never been a fan of those jokes, but Erika's make me laugh every time. Here's another one. Linking rather than posting, because it is NSFW.
    http://www.darcomic.com/2009/03/31/farts/

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  • Sandra SnanSandra Snan Medium-sized European cityRegistered User regular
    Sejarki: That would’ve been good [well, kinda good… I actually don’t think that one is so funny] if the topics were like “office” and “furniture” or “co-workers” and “vows”. “Flatulence”, on the other hand, is part of the joke, as would something like “stealth” be.

    CGG: Abby is my number four—her webcomic is hilarious—and it’d be great if she won. My favorites are Katie, Lexxy and Monica. Then I like Ty and Alex, too. They have fun web comics.

    Amy, Amy, Amy… she breaks my heart with her reality-show-like talking and thinking. She hasn’t done anything really evil yet, but in every single episode we have her approaching the show this way. I guess she thought everyone would be. I guess I thought everone else would be, too.

  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Sejarki wrote: »

    Best flatulence related joke I've seen in a long time is from Tavis's Stranger Danger (in the spoiler below for manners). I think the Country Fair addition did not help them.

    Hm. While country fair is a bit of a tired setting, I disagree a little that it's actively unhelpful.

    For one, it's easier to write your joke quickly if you have a more constrained set of circumstances, just having "flatulence" gives you a very wide strike zone.

    For two, country fair gave me lots of opportunities to make puns - a lot goes on at a country fair, and you have access to both livestock, and people performing obscure terrible novelty acts. (There's a dude over there dressed as darth vader farting the tune to the imperial death march! It certainly explains the gas-masks on the storm troopers...)

    ahdok on
    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Also, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to talk about drawing comics with dinosaurs without posting a link in the thread. It's like, perma-ban if you don't, just like the kitty thread.

    I feel like my profile is being ransomed for art...

    http://comicpress.socksandpuppets.com/312-baby-change/

    ahdok on
    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
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