Microsoft staging their tech demos when presenting to avoid any chance of a screw up, then showing the actual tech to journalists afterwards is totally fine.
At this point I'm really just going off what I've actually seen on the console, and so far I am as excited for the XOne (as a system) as I am for the PS4. I'm not too concerned about games either way at this point, most of the games are going to be cross-platform, and there is ample time for them to announce and show off the first-party junk (on both systems) before launch.
It is really tough to tell, and unfortunately some of the things we want answered probably won't even be topics at E3 either. I don't think we'll truly know until fall a few of the real important details on used games, always on, etc, aside from just the company lines of "we don't need to be always on but.." or "we're supporting the sale of used games".
At this point I'm really just going off what I've actually seen on the console, and so far I am as excited for the XOne (as a system) as I am for the PS4. I'm not too concerned about games either way at this point, most of the games are going to be cross-platform, and there is ample time for them to announce and show off the first-party junk (on both systems) before launch.
Really, the concept that they would maintain a retail presence for games almost feels like a pretense so that retailers will still stock the hardware. It'll depend on the how the preowned thing goes but it almost looks like the difference in disc/download is minimal. Neither is going to have much resale value so...
It is really tough to tell, and unfortunately some of the things we want answered probably won't even be topics at E3 either. I don't think we'll truly know until fall a few of the real important details on used games, always on, etc, aside from just the company lines of "we don't need to be always on but.." or "we're supporting the sale of used games".
I think alot of it is still in flux. They are testing the waters and eyeing Sony.
One of the reasons we haven't got firm pricing or the like is almost certainly because Gamespot and MS and the publishers are going to hash this shit out in a bloodbath behind closed doors.
You know what's silly? Depending on what they actually do with the used games thing, it will likely be a selling point for me. Not because I have some moral obligation to support the publishers/devs or anything. But I just suspect it would help them lock up some exclusives away from the PS4 if they do go that route.
I've decided to go into the cave business. I'll flip caves. If you are interested in one of hundreds of different locations - just send me a message. Soon, I'll offer a wide-range of caves, from the seasonal cave in all its variants, including the timeshare cave, the communal cave or the Hermit Deluxe.
If you need a cave, whether to get away from the madness or treat your own madness through withdrawal, or simply want to experience the uniqueness of cave life, act now - while the caves are still cold. As they tend to be in perpetuity. Caves.
You know what's silly? Depending on what they actually do with the used games thing, it will likely be a selling point for me. Not because I have some moral obligation to support the publishers/devs or anything. But I just suspect it would help them lock up some exclusives away from the PS4 if they do go that route.
That's going to be interesting to see. Will publishers want to go Xbox One exclusive to lock in that sweet, sweet used game sales money?
I guess it would depend on how they project profits from porting to the PS4 vs profits from used sales on the Xbone.
You know what's silly? Depending on what they actually do with the used games thing, it will likely be a selling point for me. Not because I have some moral obligation to support the publishers/devs or anything. But I just suspect it would help them lock up some exclusives away from the PS4 if they do go that route.
That's going to be interesting to see. Will publishers want to go Xbox One exclusive to lock in that sweet, sweet used game sales money?
I guess it would depend on how they project profits from porting to the PS4 vs profits from used sales on the Xbone.
I think the bigger question is if there will be any sweet sweet used game money to have. The numbers thrown around right now remove the major incentive to buy used.
Now, this would be a great experiment to find out if used is really cannibalizing retail sales. If for this reason alone I kind of hope Sony hangs tough and acts all virtuous and pro-gamer.
If Microsoft is so concerned about the used game market, why can't they just concentrate on digital downloads? Doesn't the Wii U and the 3DS have digital downloads for most games? Or am I mistaken?
At least that way, the consumer has a choice.
Want to buy your physical copies and then trade them in later? No problem.
Want to buy digital downloads and have them tied to your account profile? No problem.
Wouldn't that be significantly simpler than the system they are proposing?
If Microsoft is so concerned about the used game market, why can't they just concentrate on digital downloads? Doesn't the Wii U and the 3DS have digital downloads for most games? Or am I mistaken?
At least that way, the consumer has a choice.
Want to buy your physical copies and then trade them in later? No problem.
Want to buy digital downloads and have them tied to your account profile? No problem.
Wouldn't that be significantly simpler than the system they are proposing?
Because that doesn't actually address the concern.
This cleared up most of my fears about the reveal, I am back to being genuinely excited. As long as they deliver on the promise of nothing but games at E3 and they deliver on their promises with Kinect I'll be happy.
The only concrete thing said there was that all games will be available digitally. Which is actually pretty interesting.
Not really - they didn't saw when games would be available, or at what price. You can buy a load of games now, but new ones are always roughly 30% more that buying physical.
If Microsoft is so concerned about the used game market, why can't they just concentrate on digital downloads? Doesn't the Wii U and the 3DS have digital downloads for most games? Or am I mistaken?
At least that way, the consumer has a choice.
Want to buy your physical copies and then trade them in later? No problem.
Want to buy digital downloads and have them tied to your account profile? No problem.
Wouldn't that be significantly simpler than the system they are proposing?
Because that doesn't actually address the concern.
What is the concern? Piracy? Microsoft and the publishers not earning money from second hand games?
I wonder if the next generation will be completely digital, and this is just the sore transition?
Kinda doubt it. The PSPGo wasn't so long ago, and that thing bombed horribly. Nintendo of America recently revealed that of the 240k copies of Fire Emblem that had been sold, a third were digital sales. Impressive, but that's for a handheld and a title that's 1-2GB in size.
I wonder if the next generation will be completely digital, and this is just the sore transition?
IMO, no question next generation (if it even exists in the classical sense) is totally digital. This is the wierd holdover generation, I know personally barring the old consoles I have switched to an entirely digital game purchasing strategy, my 3DS has like 8 games on it and the only carts I have are for old games before the eshop kicked off and DS games.
Sony is leaning into it as heavy as they can on the PS3 and PSV as well, so I don't see that train stopping anytime soon. I'm sure MS will be expanding Games on Demand to just be a digital marketplace for everything, and both platform holders will be pushing console owners into those stores as hard as they can.
This is probably going to sound crazily naive but I know that piracy was super common with the Wii and PSP due to soft mods being insanely easy and on the DS thanks to the various carts out there, but was it as common on the 360/PS3? I just assumed the risk of console banning on such online focused consoles would be reason enough for most to avoid the risk.
If Microsoft is so concerned about the used game market, why can't they just concentrate on digital downloads? Doesn't the Wii U and the 3DS have digital downloads for most games? Or am I mistaken?
At least that way, the consumer has a choice.
Want to buy your physical copies and then trade them in later? No problem.
Want to buy digital downloads and have them tied to your account profile? No problem.
Wouldn't that be significantly simpler than the system they are proposing?
Because that doesn't actually address the concern.
What is the concern? Piracy? Microsoft and the publishers not earning money from second hand games?
MS and Publishers not getting a cut of used-game sales. They are a huge part of people like Gamestop's business and publishers/manufacturers see none of that cash. And they want that cash. Making games DD-only would fix this issue but that just isn't feasible right now. So instead, we are seeing this. It's all about getting a cut of used game sales and your idea of putting both ways out there doesn't address that. (it's also something they already do to something extent) The whole point of this new system is everytime someone new buys the game, from whatever the source, MS/Publishers get paid.
This is also treading close to/already over the line for what we are allowed to talk about in the thread, so I'll leave it at that.
I wonder if the next generation will be completely digital, and this is just the sore transition?
I don't see it going solely digital, just because why bother? This current implementation basically IS all digital, it's just you can "download" your game from a disk if you choose. The system is identical to a DD service in almost any other respect.
There seems no reason to cut off the physical disk part when you already have all the gains of a DD system anyway. The only thing missing is money saved on not having to print and distribute disks and that cost has to be easily worth it to reach the market of people who don't like to/can't/etc download their games.
You're forgetting the cost of the blu ray drive in each console to read the disks.
And the design of the thing. I'd imagine if you had a console that wouldn't need access to it, you could make its form factor much weirder.
Good point. I still think the internet infrastructure nor the cultural acceptance are their yet though. I think they are gonna hang on to the physical thing for awhile now.
Maybe they'll try and move to not-disk though? I wonder how cheaply you could make a cartridge these days.
For example, I'm imagining in the future someone like Sony building a console into one of their TVs.
I can certainly imagine Sony doing something that dumb.
You're forgetting the cost of the blu ray drive in each console to read the disks.
And the design of the thing. I'd imagine if you had a console that wouldn't need access to it, you could make its form factor much weirder.
Good point. I still think the internet infrastructure nor the cultural acceptance are their yet though. I think they are gonna hang on to the physical thing for awhile now.
Maybe they'll try and move to not-disk though? I wonder how cheaply you could make a cartridge these days.
For example, I'm imagining in the future someone like Sony building a console into one of their TVs.
I can certainly imagine Sony doing something that dumb.
I don't think it's that dumb.
Time was, I had to have a separate DVD player. Now my TV has one built in.
Time was, I had to use my PS3 to play avi and mp4 files. Now my TV does that itself.
Small features, sure, but the more I think about it, the more convenient it actually is.
This cleared up most of my fears about the reveal, I am back to being genuinely excited. As long as they deliver on the promise of nothing but games at E3 and they deliver on their promises with Kinect I'll be happy.
The only concrete thing said there was that all games will be available digitally. Which is actually pretty interesting.
Not really - they didn't saw when games would be available, or at what price. You can buy a load of games now, but new ones are always roughly 30% more that buying physical.
That's really strange. Nothing on Steam costs more than physical copies.
You're forgetting the cost of the blu ray drive in each console to read the disks.
And the design of the thing. I'd imagine if you had a console that wouldn't need access to it, you could make its form factor much weirder.
Good point. I still think the internet infrastructure nor the cultural acceptance are their yet though. I think they are gonna hang on to the physical thing for awhile now.
Maybe they'll try and move to not-disk though? I wonder how cheaply you could make a cartridge these days.
For example, I'm imagining in the future someone like Sony building a console into one of their TVs.
I can certainly imagine Sony doing something that dumb.
I don't think it's that dumb.
Time was, I had to have a separate DVD player. Now my TV has one built in.
Time was, I had to use my PS3 to play avi and mp4 files. Now my TV does that itself.
Small features, sure, but the more I think about it, the more convenient it actually is.
Most TVs don't have a DVD player in them.
And a console is also a shitload more expensive. And likely to be unneeded by many, many people who want a TV and have a shorter wanted lifetime then the TV and break easier then the TV.
It's a really silly thing to make an entire extra SKU for.
shryke on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
This cleared up most of my fears about the reveal, I am back to being genuinely excited. As long as they deliver on the promise of nothing but games at E3 and they deliver on their promises with Kinect I'll be happy.
The only concrete thing said there was that all games will be available digitally. Which is actually pretty interesting.
Not really - they didn't saw when games would be available, or at what price. You can buy a load of games now, but new ones are always roughly 30% more that buying physical.
That's really strange. Nothing on Steam costs more than physical copies.
Yep, and is often cheaper, as a lot of new titles have a 10% preorder discount.
It's only in recent months that prices on older games have started to drop. Some 5 year old games are now £15' for example, compared to £12 or so on Amazon.
I guess I just feel like the online requirements ("totally not always-on") and the disc key stuff means this console is only "user-friendly" if the user is someone who:
1) Lives in an urban area with fast internet
2) Has a reliable ISP
3) Never goes over to their friend's house to play, or even goes to group events to play games together
4) Never sells their old games off to stretch their dollars
5) Doesn't live with other people who might be talking around them while the Kinect is on.
I mean, I'm sure that person exists!
But it's not me, and it's not anyone I've ever met. And I'm sincerely skeptical that there's enough of these people out there to sustain a Microsoft-level market. Since "user-friendly, plug-and-play" was about the only thing the console market had going for it anymore...well, good luck with that?
All they had to do was release a prettier 360, and they would have had me, because I love my 360.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
90% of the voice commands during the Xbox One reveal weren't performed based on what what Yusuf Mehdi was saying.
We all called it.
Is there any particular reason why companies still pull this kind of crap?
Because there's no reason to chance an error for a huge presentation.
I was thinking it'd make more sense to do it legit, because if he'd fucked up and gone out of sync, it'd be more embarrassing than having a tech failure.
90% of the voice commands during the Xbox One reveal weren't performed based on what what Yusuf Mehdi was saying.
We all called it.
Is there any particular reason why companies still pull this kind of crap?
Because there's no reason to chance an error for a huge presentation.
Because they aim is to sell the product, not to accurately demonstrate it. That's why demonstrations/reveals/prerelease info dumps use bullshots, prerendered cutscenes masquerading as game footage and heavily scripted gameplay segments that don't represent the final product.
90% of the voice commands during the Xbox One reveal weren't performed based on what what Yusuf Mehdi was saying.
We all called it.
Is there any particular reason why companies still pull this kind of crap?
Because there's no reason to chance an error for a huge presentation.
I was thinking it'd make more sense to do it legit, because if he'd fucked up and gone out of sync, it'd be more embarrassing than having a tech failure.
It was probably being controlled via commands from someone off to the side with a controller or something to ensure that it worked when they wanted it to work.
90% of the voice commands during the Xbox One reveal weren't performed based on what what Yusuf Mehdi was saying.
We all called it.
Is there any particular reason why companies still pull this kind of crap?
Remember Miyamoto bungling around as the motion controls failed to respond due to technical problems during the E3 2010 Skyward Sword demo for minutes on end?
Posts
I can't even tell what's fact or fiction anymore, as people are going to ridiculous lengths to find any sort of dirt to further bash this system.
"I showed my dog a picture of the Xbox One, and he made a doggie fart. Microsoft confirmed to be unappealing to the dog demograph!"
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Really, the concept that they would maintain a retail presence for games almost feels like a pretense so that retailers will still stock the hardware. It'll depend on the how the preowned thing goes but it almost looks like the difference in disc/download is minimal. Neither is going to have much resale value so...
I think alot of it is still in flux. They are testing the waters and eyeing Sony.
One of the reasons we haven't got firm pricing or the like is almost certainly because Gamespot and MS and the publishers are going to hash this shit out in a bloodbath behind closed doors.
If you need a cave, whether to get away from the madness or treat your own madness through withdrawal, or simply want to experience the uniqueness of cave life, act now - while the caves are still cold. As they tend to be in perpetuity. Caves.
NVM, no discussing it.
That's going to be interesting to see. Will publishers want to go Xbox One exclusive to lock in that sweet, sweet used game sales money?
I guess it would depend on how they project profits from porting to the PS4 vs profits from used sales on the Xbone.
I think the bigger question is if there will be any sweet sweet used game money to have. The numbers thrown around right now remove the major incentive to buy used.
Now, this would be a great experiment to find out if used is really cannibalizing retail sales. If for this reason alone I kind of hope Sony hangs tough and acts all virtuous and pro-gamer.
Did I just write that?
At least that way, the consumer has a choice.
Want to buy your physical copies and then trade them in later? No problem.
Want to buy digital downloads and have them tied to your account profile? No problem.
Wouldn't that be significantly simpler than the system they are proposing?
Because that doesn't actually address the concern.
Not really - they didn't saw when games would be available, or at what price. You can buy a load of games now, but new ones are always roughly 30% more that buying physical.
What is the concern? Piracy? Microsoft and the publishers not earning money from second hand games?
Kinda doubt it. The PSPGo wasn't so long ago, and that thing bombed horribly. Nintendo of America recently revealed that of the 240k copies of Fire Emblem that had been sold, a third were digital sales. Impressive, but that's for a handheld and a title that's 1-2GB in size.
IMO, no question next generation (if it even exists in the classical sense) is totally digital. This is the wierd holdover generation, I know personally barring the old consoles I have switched to an entirely digital game purchasing strategy, my 3DS has like 8 games on it and the only carts I have are for old games before the eshop kicked off and DS games.
Sony is leaning into it as heavy as they can on the PS3 and PSV as well, so I don't see that train stopping anytime soon. I'm sure MS will be expanding Games on Demand to just be a digital marketplace for everything, and both platform holders will be pushing console owners into those stores as hard as they can.
MS and Publishers not getting a cut of used-game sales. They are a huge part of people like Gamestop's business and publishers/manufacturers see none of that cash. And they want that cash. Making games DD-only would fix this issue but that just isn't feasible right now. So instead, we are seeing this. It's all about getting a cut of used game sales and your idea of putting both ways out there doesn't address that. (it's also something they already do to something extent) The whole point of this new system is everytime someone new buys the game, from whatever the source, MS/Publishers get paid.
This is also treading close to/already over the line for what we are allowed to talk about in the thread, so I'll leave it at that.
I don't see it going solely digital, just because why bother? This current implementation basically IS all digital, it's just you can "download" your game from a disk if you choose. The system is identical to a DD service in almost any other respect.
There seems no reason to cut off the physical disk part when you already have all the gains of a DD system anyway. The only thing missing is money saved on not having to print and distribute disks and that cost has to be easily worth it to reach the market of people who don't like to/can't/etc download their games.
And the design of the thing. I'd imagine if you had a console that wouldn't need access to it, you could make its form factor much weirder.
For example, I'm imagining in the future someone like Sony building a console into one of their TVs.
Good point. I still think the internet infrastructure nor the cultural acceptance are their yet though. I think they are gonna hang on to the physical thing for awhile now.
Maybe they'll try and move to not-disk though? I wonder how cheaply you could make a cartridge these days.
I can certainly imagine Sony doing something that dumb.
I've just ordered a 10m hdmi cable, to test the Big Picture function on Steam, as I'm not optimistic either...
I don't think it's that dumb.
Time was, I had to have a separate DVD player. Now my TV has one built in.
Time was, I had to use my PS3 to play avi and mp4 files. Now my TV does that itself.
Small features, sure, but the more I think about it, the more convenient it actually is.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Most TVs don't have a DVD player in them.
And a console is also a shitload more expensive. And likely to be unneeded by many, many people who want a TV and have a shorter wanted lifetime then the TV and break easier then the TV.
It's a really silly thing to make an entire extra SKU for.
Is there any particular reason why companies still pull this kind of crap?
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Meanwhile the shit he was saying on stage was affecting people's Kinects as they watched via their XBL feed.
Because there's no reason to chance an error for a huge presentation.
Yep, and is often cheaper, as a lot of new titles have a 10% preorder discount.
It's only in recent months that prices on older games have started to drop. Some 5 year old games are now £15' for example, compared to £12 or so on Amazon.
1) Lives in an urban area with fast internet
2) Has a reliable ISP
3) Never goes over to their friend's house to play, or even goes to group events to play games together
4) Never sells their old games off to stretch their dollars
5) Doesn't live with other people who might be talking around them while the Kinect is on.
I mean, I'm sure that person exists!
But it's not me, and it's not anyone I've ever met. And I'm sincerely skeptical that there's enough of these people out there to sustain a Microsoft-level market. Since "user-friendly, plug-and-play" was about the only thing the console market had going for it anymore...well, good luck with that?
All they had to do was release a prettier 360, and they would have had me, because I love my 360.
I was thinking it'd make more sense to do it legit, because if he'd fucked up and gone out of sync, it'd be more embarrassing than having a tech failure.
Because they aim is to sell the product, not to accurately demonstrate it. That's why demonstrations/reveals/prerelease info dumps use bullshots, prerendered cutscenes masquerading as game footage and heavily scripted gameplay segments that don't represent the final product.
Lying makes money.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
It was probably being controlled via commands from someone off to the side with a controller or something to ensure that it worked when they wanted it to work.
Remember Miyamoto bungling around as the motion controls failed to respond due to technical problems during the E3 2010 Skyward Sword demo for minutes on end?
Steam