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Internet Vigilantism, Justice, and The Impact on Society

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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    Aren't both of these bad acts though? If they can only be justified by a good cause, Anon fails to justify its actions catastrophically.

    Sure, Anon is a disorganized crowd lacking any central political tenets, meaningful long term goals or even meaningful long term membership, and the justifications for it's individual actions are typically the company doing something that has raised the ire of a mob.

    I'm less defending Anon than seeking for it's actions and nature to be properly describe. Calling them a "terrorist group" is inaccurate on both counts, and using the term terrorism, in today's climate, seems intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant. At the least it is hyperbole.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instant available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.
    Neither of these two things actually occur in a DDOS attack.

    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    At least to my knowledge these chucklefucks don't go ahead and fix the sites they fuck with afterwards. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Not only that, but if there's an intrusion, it costs money restoring the system back to a state of trust.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    By that logic, every abolitionist was a terrorist.

    Laws can be unjust. Laws can be fucking terrible. For instance, is a gay person in Uganda a terrorist for working to stop the Kill the Gays bill while having sex with a person of there same gender?

    What's that old saw about terrorists and freedom fighters? While I don't agree completely with the logic being argued, it's worth remembering that the line between hero and villain can be murky.

    I hate that old line.
    Terrorists attack civilians to provoke terror.
    Freedom fighters attack the state to abolish the wage system

    You don't think that people who are acting against the state ostensibly don't engage in terrorism against the public?

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?




    defacement does have a cost. They do have to pay an employee to revert it to the last back-up, and that can take hours.

    Then they need to have a security expert come in and fix the problem that allowed it to happen, which was exposing their customer's computers to attacks from malware and possibly exposing their customer's information to other threats. That can take days of work by someone who should be charging them quite a bit per hour.

    And of course, in addition to these direct costs, they've lost their customer's trust. Because their customer are now aware of how poor the security on the site was, and probably don't understand that this might not include the security of the information which they have trusted the operators of the site with.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Vic_Hazard wrote: »
    Excuse me for being a foreigner, but isn't the real purpose of the term 'terrorist' in the legal sense in america today to allow special (extreme) measures? I can't imagine anonymous being such a threat that they're deserving the same treatment the talibans get, putting them in the same group as suicide bombers seems like a stretch. Imagine the outcry if the US apprehended the wrong american as a terrorist as compared to the wrong middle eastern citizen.

    This is because terrorism has become such a loaded term. But it does have a definition, one that predates 9/11. I don't think anybody here is using it in the legal sense to justify the "extreme measures" you're talking about.

    I don't think anyone is arguing for putting Anonymous in double-gitmo or something. I think the point people are making is these aren't just some kids dicking around with scripts and breaking into stuff for funsies.

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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    I'm also willing to agree that DDoS probably doesn't meet the definition of terrorism, in and of itself.

    Combine it with their other activities and, yep, terrorist group.

  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    I've been through my share of internet drama as a "not nice person". The reaction in these cases is always clearly disproportionate for what was done in the first place. Being on the receiving end before, and knowing what actually happened, its amazing to see armchair intellectuals come out of the woodwork and declare A,B, therefore C when none of it is right. Or people just completely overreact for any number of reasons. Of course there are people who just want to stir shit up and manipulate the mob because they get off on it. "I hear he can't orgasm unless he kills a dog" comes to mind from the PA comic.

    This is a huge thing in the insular circle of the gaming community. One wrong comment cause pitchforks to raise and torches to be lit, and amazon/metacritic ratings to go down. The easiest way to incite? Dont rate a game within the 7.5-9.5 on the 1-10 scale. The examples are endless, the dead island folks, review scores in general, sim city, the new consoles,used games, the list goes on.

    steam_sig.png
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    No, these groups still engage in actual destructive actions. I still say the term may apply.

    I'll leave it to you to defend them on dos attacks, since you seem to live you some techno anarchism.

    Yeah, sorry. I meant to edit that. Thought I had, but apparently didn't submitted it while my phones been being hammered by recruiters for some reason.

    It was pointlessly rude.

    I'm not a fan of Anon. I do sort of like descriptions of things that are accurate, and well... americans have allowed a lot of horrible shit to be carried out in the name of fighting terrorism, so I feel it is a label that should be used sparingly.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    No, these groups still engage in actual destructive actions. I still say the term may apply.

    I'll leave it to you to defend them on dos attacks, since you seem to live you some techno anarchism.

    Yeah, sorry. I meant to edit that. Thought I had, but apparently didn't submitted it while my phones been being hammered by recruiters for some reason.

    It was pointlessly rude.

    I'm not a fan of Anon. I do sort of like descriptions of things that are accurate, and well... americans have allowed a lot of horrible shit to be carried out in the name of fighting terrorism, so I feel it is a label that should be used sparingly.

    But why? I think that our reluctance to use the label is the bigger issue.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    No, these groups still engage in actual destructive actions. I still say the term may apply.

    I'll leave it to you to defend them on dos attacks, since you seem to live you some techno anarchism.

    Yeah, sorry. I meant to edit that. Thought I had, but apparently didn't submitted it while my phones been being hammered by recruiters for some reason.

    It was pointlessly rude.

    I'm not a fan of Anon. I do sort of like descriptions of things that are accurate, and well... americans have allowed a lot of horrible shit to be carried out in the name of fighting terrorism, so I feel it is a label that should be used sparingly.

    But why? I think that our reluctance to use the label is the bigger issue.

    1) The bigger issue.
    2) There is a difference between a suicide bomber acting for international political change and kids shutting down a website because they don't like the company's level of customer service.


    Terrorism has political and social goals.
    What are Anon's goals?

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Umm... are those things a DoS?

    Ah, fair, I was talking about intrusions and vandalism, which they also do.

    There are expenses to fighting a DoS too, and unlike picketing it takes less effort to sustain that attack indefinitely. It's not entirely analogous either.

    I'm comfortable saying that DoS in particular may not meet the definition of terrorism, but I have littlelove for techno anarchist chucklefucks such that I won't argue with the application of the term to them.

    So, you aren't ignorant, and are intellectually dishonest. Fantastic. Glad we cleared that up in this one instance.

    No, these groups still engage in actual destructive actions. I still say the term may apply.

    I'll leave it to you to defend them on dos attacks, since you seem to live you some techno anarchism.

    Yeah, sorry. I meant to edit that. Thought I had, but apparently didn't submitted it while my phones been being hammered by recruiters for some reason.

    It was pointlessly rude.

    I'm not a fan of Anon. I do sort of like descriptions of things that are accurate, and well... americans have allowed a lot of horrible shit to be carried out in the name of fighting terrorism, so I feel it is a label that should be used sparingly.

    But why? I think that our reluctance to use the label is the bigger issue.

    1) The bigger issue.
    2) There is a difference between a suicide bomber acting for international political change and kids shutting down a website because they don't like the company's level of customer service.


    Terrorism has political and social goals.
    What are Anon's goals?

    Anon tends to be technoanarchistic, and thus directs a good amount of their ire towards entities that they feel are "regulating the internet" or restricting the flow of information (which is how Wikileaks was born.) The movement as a whole does have goals, even if the rank and file might not be able to articulate them.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    All that said, I shed not a single year when some teenagers racist tweets wind up having consequences.

    You know what? I kind of do, people are idiots when they're teenagers, they say stupid things because they're young, dumb and don't know any better. Fuck, if I had every terrible, assholish thing I said when I was 17 preserved for posterity on the internet forever being used to publicly shame and punish me, I doubt I would have had the opportunity to grow out of that phase and see the folly in it.

    More likely I would have sought the company of people with equally terrible world views and doubled down on the crazy. You think the politicians of today have never said a bad word in their lives? Somehow I doubt that very much, they just had the luxury of growing up in an age when their every mistake growing up wasn't given digital immortality.

    Disagree. I posted on this forum as a teenager. Said some stupid shit. Especially about women. Getting yelled at by The Cat and tynic caused me to rethink my views. I did not run off into the arms of MRA trolls, or Ladder Theory-peddling douchebags. I sat down, considered their points, and took to heart the lessons they were trying to teach me. Were they public shamings? I guess, in a way. Did I deserve them at the time? Hell yes. Have they come up since? Nope.

    Internet!

    You... didn't read any of my posts before writing this did you?

    I respond to the posts I respond to, Casual. Nothing else.

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  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    All that said, I shed not a single year when some teenagers racist tweets wind up having consequences.

    You know what? I kind of do, people are idiots when they're teenagers, they say stupid things because they're young, dumb and don't know any better. Fuck, if I had every terrible, assholish thing I said when I was 17 preserved for posterity on the internet forever being used to publicly shame and punish me, I doubt I would have had the opportunity to grow out of that phase and see the folly in it.

    More likely I would have sought the company of people with equally terrible world views and doubled down on the crazy. You think the politicians of today have never said a bad word in their lives? Somehow I doubt that very much, they just had the luxury of growing up in an age when their every mistake growing up wasn't given digital immortality.

    Disagree. I posted on this forum as a teenager. Said some stupid shit. Especially about women. Getting yelled at by The Cat and tynic caused me to rethink my views. I did not run off into the arms of MRA trolls, or Ladder Theory-peddling douchebags. I sat down, considered their points, and took to heart the lessons they were trying to teach me. Were they public shamings? I guess, in a way. Did I deserve them at the time? Hell yes. Have they come up since? Nope.

    Internet!

    @Hacksaw

    This isn't really comparable

    The forums social atmosphere is more like... a house party. Yeah you can get dogpiled and yelled at but its by people in a social atmosphere

    It's not a campaign of harassment

    Imagine if the stupid shit you said was linked to your real name then put on Tumblr/Twitter with links to all of your family's online shit and then you got 10,000 e-mails and phone calls about how you're a misogynist douche and should commit suicide

    I really don't think you'd have the same reaction

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Casual wrote: »
    I don't think we need a clear definition, tbh. Anonymous uses Internet generated force (and sometimes even physical force/action like their stupid gatherings in masks) to harm people they don't like. They are not at all analogous to Hartiet Tubmsn or Ghandi. What "unjust" laws are they supposed to be breaking in protest?

    Also, being anonymous, and this insulated from the consequnces of their actions, actually makes them incapable of civil disobedience, because if you don't get cause and punished, the injustice of the law you are protesting doesn't get displayed. These are just hoodlums. I wish we could just arrest them all and be done with it.

    You talk about them like the news does, like they're an organised group with fixed goals and command structures. That's a joke, anon is comprised of whoever decides they're part of anon at any given moment and debatably they don't even have common ideology to link them. This is why you have a group that can both attack North Korean internet censorship and slut shame 11 year old girls at the same time.

    Organizations do not have to have fixed goals and a strict command structure in order to have goals and a de facto hierarchy. Al Qaeda has never had a strict command structure or fixed goals yet this does not preclude them from being a terrorist organization.

    Anon certainly isn't Al Qaeda but they are not shielded from the label simply because the structure is less defined
    redx wrote: »

    Umm... are those things a DoS?




    defacement does have a cost. They do have to pay an employee to revert it to the last back-up, and that can take hours.

    A question, the answer to which reveals the obvious damage:

    How does one operate a DDOS attack?
    mcdermott wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    A picketed storefront becomes instantly available again at no cost when the picketers leave.

    A defaced and intruded site costs money to fix, AND renders the site unavailable.

    It's the digital equivalent of a smashed window.

    Furthermore you can't actually stop people from using the service you're picketing.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    redx wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    If you don't believe that they're using violence or intimidation I don't know what to say. Ddos attacks are the equivalent on breaking in a store front. Just because it happens online does not mean its not violent or intimidating

    I'd put it closer to a sit in or aggressive picketing, both of which prevent commerce by making it impossible for a business to render service. The store front is not smashed, it is simply unavailable.

    It is closer to a sit in, if random people were grabbed off the street and forced to sit in against their will (and somehow knowledge).

    BSoB on
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Seriously, if franchise consistency is a key part of being labeled a terrorist group then Al Qaeda isn't winning the ribbon either. Anonymous is about as coherent as they are, if taken in their totality and not just the government/media narrative of higher ranking public-ish figures.

    And don't forget Anonymous's early focus on Scientology. 'They' have political and social goals, though their follow through is a bit shoddy. They're terrorists, but in the same sense that backwoods militias are terrorists. Somebody should probably look into them eventually, but they're not exactly a dire threat to the world as a whole.

    For a counterpoint, the Weather Underground was a terrorist group that's hard not to cheer for in retrospect. Terrorist is a loaded word, and it carries frightening connotations, but it's fairly useless as a judgment of morality and ethics.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    All that said, I shed not a single year when some teenagers racist tweets wind up having consequences.

    You know what? I kind of do, people are idiots when they're teenagers, they say stupid things because they're young, dumb and don't know any better. Fuck, if I had every terrible, assholish thing I said when I was 17 preserved for posterity on the internet forever being used to publicly shame and punish me, I doubt I would have had the opportunity to grow out of that phase and see the folly in it.

    More likely I would have sought the company of people with equally terrible world views and doubled down on the crazy. You think the politicians of today have never said a bad word in their lives? Somehow I doubt that very much, they just had the luxury of growing up in an age when their every mistake growing up wasn't given digital immortality.

    Disagree. I posted on this forum as a teenager. Said some stupid shit. Especially about women. Getting yelled at by The Cat and tynic caused me to rethink my views. I did not run off into the arms of MRA trolls, or Ladder Theory-peddling douchebags. I sat down, considered their points, and took to heart the lessons they were trying to teach me. Were they public shamings? I guess, in a way. Did I deserve them at the time? Hell yes. Have they come up since? Nope.

    Internet!

    @Hacksaw

    This isn't really comparable

    The forums social atmosphere is more like... a house party. Yeah you can get dogpiled and yelled at but its by people in a social atmosphere

    It's not a campaign of harassment

    Imagine if the stupid shit you said was linked to your real name then put on Tumblr/Twitter with links to all of your family's online shit and then you got 10,000 e-mails and phone calls about how you're a misogynist douche and should commit suicide

    I really don't think you'd have the same reaction

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    All that said, I shed not a single year when some teenagers racist tweets wind up having consequences.

    You know what? I kind of do, people are idiots when they're teenagers, they say stupid things because they're young, dumb and don't know any better. Fuck, if I had every terrible, assholish thing I said when I was 17 preserved for posterity on the internet forever being used to publicly shame and punish me, I doubt I would have had the opportunity to grow out of that phase and see the folly in it.

    More likely I would have sought the company of people with equally terrible world views and doubled down on the crazy. You think the politicians of today have never said a bad word in their lives? Somehow I doubt that very much, they just had the luxury of growing up in an age when their every mistake growing up wasn't given digital immortality.

    Disagree. I posted on this forum as a teenager. Said some stupid shit. Especially about women. Getting yelled at by The Cat and tynic caused me to rethink my views. I did not run off into the arms of MRA trolls, or Ladder Theory-peddling douchebags. I sat down, considered their points, and took to heart the lessons they were trying to teach me. Were they public shamings? I guess, in a way. Did I deserve them at the time? Hell yes. Have they come up since? Nope.

    Internet!

    @Hacksaw

    This isn't really comparable

    The forums social atmosphere is more like... a house party. Yeah you can get dogpiled and yelled at but its by people in a social atmosphere

    It's not a campaign of harassment

    Imagine if the stupid shit you said was linked to your real name then put on Tumblr/Twitter with links to all of your family's online shit and then you got 10,000 e-mails and phone calls about how you're a misogynist douche and should commit suicide

    I really don't think you'd have the same reaction

    Isn't this more or less a de facto outcome given the technology though, Cass? I mean, you have a culture full of people that fundamentally want to hurt 'bad people', and shaming them is a means of hurting such people that's not only considered acceptable, but lionized by certain large demographic groups, and now you have technology that allows them to do this at the press of a button and on a large scale. This jsn't some malicious choice that's being made by a group - it's a deterministic outcome given the ingredients that've been tossed into the blender.

    It's a problem, but I don't think we can actually solve the problem without creating a much worse situation.

    With Love and Courage
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  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    It's a problem, but I don't think we can actually solve the problem without creating a much worse situation.

    I'll agree we probably can't fix all the issues, but we could probably get laws on the books, if they don't already exist, to curtail certain aspects of doxxing. I'd think given that privacy is a right in the US, could probably pass laws that allow the authorities to come down hard on people when they pull this shit against people who aren't considered public enough figures and when the bitchfest against such people doesn't deal with a matter of public concern.

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